Advice needed...

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Another year is coming to a close, and I've yet to make any real strides in increasing my income. I've been writing for a prominant marketing company for four years, and they have billion dollar clients. I write content for huge brands (household names and Fortune 500 companies). In this four years, I have been dependable, but when I've asked for a rate increase I've been shot down repeatedly. The response is always that they pay all writers the same.I only make $0.03 per word.

They rarely have to ask me for edits (just a handful of times per year). The work must be high-quality at all times, well-researched with references, and written on trending topics. I'm responsible for all research, edits, and ideation. I'm sad about this because it's independant contracting, so no overtime pay, no benefits, no paid time off, no Christmas bonuses, etc. I write for a few content mills, but, as many of you know, mills only pay out once a month or less, so I work overtime and then wait and wait and wait for checks and payments to arrive.

I am averaging about $350 a week, which six years ago was decent because it was comparable to what I was earning from my office job. More importantly, it meant I could do what I love full time and from home, but now it's not so great. I feel awful. In this economy, it's just pathetic and after six years of solid portfolio building, I feel like a real failure. I've applied everywhere, including applying directly to the companies I've been writing indirectly for.

My samples and CV are excellent, and yet nothing comes back. I can't score a higher paying gig to save my life. Any advice would be excellent. I really want to turn things around. I don't want to give up, but with no career growth I'd be foolish to continue. I'm 31 now, no longer in my 20s, and I can't continue working a job that doesn't allow me to save for retirement, etc. Then again, I can't see myself doing anything else. I love writing. I'm good at it, and I've learned so much in terms of content marketing, outreach, SEO, etc. There aren't jobs where my skillset is in demand where I live, so if I look for work outside the home, it's going to be office work, customer service, etc. I'll hate that too, but at least I'll have a 401k and paid time off.

What do you think? Should I give up? Is there something I'm missing? I'm subscribed to Google alerts for new clients/writing jobs, etc. I'm sending out aproximately 10 inquiries, pitches, and job applications a week. What am I doing wrong?
#copywriting #advice #needed #writer #writer available #writing advice #writing articles
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  • Starting at a lower rate and hoping to bargain for an increase later NEVER works.

    It's not a matter of how good you are or how loyal you've been to them. It's a matter of their own internal beliefs about getting value by PAYING for value. Asking them to change that is like asking them to change their religion.

    I don't care what anyone says, people who pay lousy money to writers just don't "get it." Hell, most of them don't WANT to get it. In this game, getting paid real money is more about finding the right people and negotiating what you're worth that it is about writing well.

    Write that ^ on your bathroom mirror. It's the most important thing you'll learn about freelancing.

    If they won't pay you what you're worth from the start, don't waste your time. Look for someone who gets it and become a good enough writer, AND negotiator, to earn and to demand what your skills are worth.

    You need to decide what you want. Do you want to be a freelancer, or do you want a "JOB" (Just. Over. Broke)? As a freelancer, you get the benefits of a flexible schedule and the opportunity to earn more by being a great writer and a great negotiator. With a Job, you MIGHT get overtime, benefits and paid time off. But you don't get to have both hon.

    I hear this "I've hit an income plateau" complaint ALL the time on this forum. The complainers all have one thing in common. They're only looking online and they're ignoring the most lucrative channels.

    Honestly, if you're earning $350 a week by looking for work ONLY online, you're doing about as well as can be expected. You've simply hit your income lid for this fishing hole.

    My guess is, it's not your writing skills that are holding you back. It's your negotiation skills. More important, it's where you're deciding to fish for clients. Bottom feeders hang out in muddy ponds (Read: Online Job boards). If you want the big fish, you have to get out in the deep waters.

    This means, direct mail, offline networking, all those things 99% of the copywriters in the world don't have the balls to bother with.

    Think of freelancing like dating. No matter how good a "catch" you are, if you keep looking for love in bars and night clubs, you'll keep bringing home bottom feeders.

    (Another one ^ for the bathroom mirror).

    So that's what I suggest for 2016.

    Decide what you want to be, a freelancer, or an employee. If you stick with freelancing, get out into the deep waters and starting looking for clients who get it. Most important, NEVER lose confidence in yourself over chumps who suffer from that "bargain basement" thinking. Chances are, they can't even tell the difference between good writing and crap writing anyway.

    Casting pearls before swine is a ticket directly into the pig pen. Go find someone who deserves to have you working for them and leave those bottom feeders to scrap over the $1 an hour Indian and Philippine "writers."
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    • Reminds me of one of my favorite Sesame Street clips.
      "Green caterpillars never, never, never wear brown boots."
      "Never?"
      "Never."
      "Green caterpillars never, never, never wear brown boots."

      Sound speech that cannot be condemned.

      -Ray Edwards
    • Yes! Demand what you're worth. Never throw pearls to swine.
  • Hi Alisia,

    Seth offers some good advice in relation to where you are hunting for work amongst other things.

    Here are some thoughts...

    I initially read your post and the comments and then I checked out your sig link to your blog.

    Are you using the blog as an example of your work?

    I would have expected to land on a page that sold your copywriting skills not some group of reviews and articles and various other confusing links and design issues.

    Maybe check out a few copywriters websites for some inspiration.

    Like Joanna Weibe's http://copyhackers.com

    or Brian MacLeod's About — Brian McLeod | Direct-Response Copywriter, Expert Marketing Consultant | LoudMac Creative, Inc.

    or Rick Duris CopyRanger.com | Rick Duris

    If you are selling your abilities then it would pay to study or at least model what is working for other people.

    Gain some focus in your whole approach and the doors will open for you.

    It sounds like you have the founding and work ethic to be really successful and I wish you the best in making a success of whatever approach you pursue.

    Kind regards,

    Ozi
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  • After all the soul-searching, deep analytical analysis and intense self psychological profiling…

    You may well reach what could be the inevitable conclusion…just say goodbye to content...

    And become a Freelance Copywriter.


    Steve
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  • Seth's post is awesome.

    Stay out of the job boards.

    I know...your mind screams, "But Where The Hell Else Am I Supposed To Look??!"

    Here's a method to get better-paying, higher-ticket clients:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...riter-how.html

    You can substitute email or FedEx or direct mail marketing methods for starting the conversation, but it'll be more expensive and take longer.

    The key is going out and creating your own market.

    Lots of these folks don't even know what a copywriter is. Yet they're executives at big companies. They've just never heard of the term before.

    Imagine that.

    You get in there FIRST. You're the only copywriter they've ever met. You came to them and are the only option on the table.

    Pick a niche.

    Make the prospect list.

    Go make contact with them and start conversations.

    Great conversations with qualified prospects lead to sales and clients.
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  • @sethczerepak nice break up there and thanks that helped me too!
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    • As a writer, there are three ways to increase your income:

      1. increase fees
      2. increase work hours
      3. increase productivity

      If you are only averaging $350 a week either the companies don't have enough work to keep you busy or you need to increase your speed. The number works out to less than 2500 words per day and that sounds low to me.

      When I was freelance writing I planned on 5000 minimum words per day and that's what I did (or more) most days. Those were not full days of work - I seldom wrote for more than 5 hrs a day.

      That's the trade-off for the freedom of working at home, when you want, doing what you want. If those things are important, get a job that provides that security. Alternative is to earn enough to provide those benefits for yourself. I don't mean that in a rude way - it's the reality we face when we work independently.
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  • I'm gonna invoke the wisdom of one Rick Duris in this situation.

    I wasn't stuck in doing per-word gigs or anything, but I WAS homeless, broke, and desperate.

    I was taking on clients that had bright red blinking WARNING signs flashing at me from over their heads, but I relentlessly pursued them anyway because money's money and I live in the most expensive metro in the country - I needed it...right?

    Wrong.

    Rick advised me to do one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life - take a leap of faith. Cut ties with the bad clients. Abandon the prospecting methods I'd been using to attract them (like attracts like). Try something new. Believe I was worth more and charge accordingly.

    This is purely a mindset thing. Take it from someone who clawed her way out of desperation and homelessness.

    It starts with you.

    The universe isn't going to hand it to you, no matter how much good work you've churned out, no matter how hard you've worked to "earn" that raise.

    Now it's up to you. Where's your line in the sand? You clearly believe you're worth more. They clearly believe you're not.

    Who's right? You? Or them?

    I'm betting on you.

    Now what are you going to do to prove it to the world, and more importantly, yourself?

    Are you ready to cut ties and see if you can fly?
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  • Thanks Angie.

    Diva, Angie as well as others have proved one thing:

    No one is going to respect you until you start learning to respect yourself. Revere yourself and what you bring to the table.

    Here's the strategy in a nutshell:

    Pass up good for great.

    1. Never charge by the word again. NO MATTER WHAT. You're not doing yourself any favors.

    2. Niche yourself. Concentrate on a market you love writing for. A market that will pay you what you're worth. Investing sites will, that's for sure.

    3. Get great. I know you're good but you can be better. We all can be better. Polish your work. Go the extra mile. Invest in yourself and your marketing.

    4. Start networking. Face to face. Seminars, conferences, trade shows, meetups. These content marketing events are GREAT pools to network in. Successful clients, the ones you want, are looking for quality writers, not BS per word writers. (Sorry, but it's the truth.)

    The unsuccessful clients use per word, BS SEO writers. Not only that, but they run writers into the ground. YOU ARE BEING PLAYED. They KNOW you are either going to burn out or disappear.

    How does it feel?

    Quality content writing is hard to come by. As a client, I know I'm dealing with a 3rd or 4th tier writer BECAUSE she charges by the word. I don't even have to look at her work to know.

    Get it?

    5. TALK to Angie. Buy an hour of her time. Find out how she transitioned specifically.

    Good luck. The good news is it ain't as hard as you are making it.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Funny how people interpret a thread like this. We see it differently.

      My answer DOES address the OP's situation - because the subject was "content writing" - not copywriting. While a copywriter can claim "I never write per word" - that doesn't apply to most content writers.

      I fully agree with Angie that YOU have to decide what your work is worth and YOU have to believe it.

      At the same time, if you write for content mills or for businesses that hire multiple writers at set fees...you will need to re-position yourself in order to increase earning. You can add to your skill set (copywriting, for example, or specializing in certain niches as an 'expert writer') or you can increase your productivity where you are.

      My point stands - if the OP is writing CONTENT (as opposed to 'crafting ad copy') - the $$/week is very low and would indicate a low output of work to me. Just my opinion - and based on CONTENT writing only.
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  • Wow! I wish I had posted here years ago. Thank you all so much. Truly, thank you. I see that I am guilty of putting myself in a position to earn less. I guess I sort of got lost in the muck and mire of sludging through work to make a decent wage, which left little time for self-promotion and negotiating for rates.

    I do want to go to a conference. I prefer to write about superficial topics, but I have expertise in finance (investing and saving) and web security (cloud security, visualization, big data, IoT, etc.). I believe those niches would be higher paying than pet care or health and beauty. Do I then attend a tech conference or a finance conference? It's so scary to imagine myself at something like that. I'd have to go alone because no one I knew is in this business or could afford it. The thought of doing something like that has kept me from attending a number of conferences over the years, including a year that Ispy gave me a 90 percent discount on their blogging conference.

    I'm one of those weirdo introvert/extroverts. I'm outgoing and easy to talk to, but inside my anxiety over the dialog is ruining my ability to think on my feet and make sound decisions or negotiate anything. But, you're all right - I need to stop letting fear hold me back and get out there.
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    • I do agree with posters above that you should break up the big paragraphs - they're a little difficult to read, especially for people trying to help out.

      Follow the direction you want to go is the answer. If you're in a chase money stage, that's fine - I prefer to go after work I enjoy.

      And never let a pet owner hear you call their precious fluffikins "superficial".

      Here's a hint for conferences:

      When I get in an OMG WHAT IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG cycle, which it sounds like you've been stuck in regarding attending conferences, I intentionally dream up the most ridiculous worst case scenario I can think of.

      I'll give you my old trusty example, back when I was afraid to run a direct mail campaign promoting my services:

      I'll send the letter. It'll hit someone's mailbox and they'll hate it so badly they'll set it on fire and be late for work. As they're road raging their way through bay area traffic, they'll side swipe a school bus and a bunch of kids get injured.

      Someone at nearby Lockheed Martin gets the call that little Jimmy is in the hospital and throws his hands up in despair. When his hands come back down, he accidentally slams them down on the little red button that launches nuclear war.

      Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

      The worst that happens is SO FAR from what I just invented that there's absolutely no reason for me NOT to take action.

      There's no blackball list that some magical wizard keeps somewhere, checking your name against it every time you send something out to see if you can earn the right to work.

      You mail something/email something/call someone/pitch someone in person. You figure out what went wrong or right. You course correct as you figure out what you can do better.

      And several years later you're schooling up and comers on how to crawl out of the hole they've put themselves in.

      Ask me how I know.
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  • Okay, first of all, kudos to you for reaching out for help. 95% of other struggling copywriters will never do this. So good for you.

    I agree that a mindset tweak is certainly needed. And honestly, it may be easier than you think. What I would do is start searching proactively for potential clients in niches that you A) have more experience other copywriters, B) have more knowledge in than other copywriters, or C) have more passion for than other copywriters.

    For example, I may have many more years of experience than you do. But if we both were talking to a guy about financial copy or investing copy or web security copy (all BOOMING fields I might add), they would almost certainly hire you over me. Why? Because my success stories and client lists are a mile long, I got squat for experience in all those areas. While you can come in and hit the ground running, knowing the market, the products, the language, the buttons to push, etc. They don't have to train you--they can just hand you the project and say "GO!" And it will come back looking fabulous.

    THIS is what clients want. They don't want to teach a copywriter their business. They just want somebody they can hand their stuff to and not worry about it getting done (or redone and redone and redone again). And when you market yourself to those potential clients where your skills, knowledge, passion, etc are a perfect match and set you apart from other copywriters, they'd be stupid to hire someone else. It's low hanging fruit, and it's there for the picking.

    I did the exact same thing in the golf market a few years back. I eat, sleep and breath this game. So it was a natural move to try and make a splash in it. I contacted one of the biggest players in the online golf training market and they used me for some emails. Those messages blew what they were doing away, and not just because of my so-called prowess as a copywriter. It was because I KNEW this customer inside and out, and knew exactly what to say (and not say) to make them take action. They quickly put me on retainer, and 3 months later I parlayed that success into taking over all their copywriting needs for them. Which of course, resulted in a nice hefty bump in my retainer fee too.

    So don't target a certain type of copy. Target a certain type of CLIENT, the type that matches really well with your own personal knowledge, experience, and passion. And don't go too broad with financial or whatever--get REALLY detailed and narrow down your search. Think about what you know more about than other people. Not just professionally, but personally as well (hobbies, interests). In my coaching program, I've helped my students market themselves in such niches as vaping, craft beer brewing, cake decorating, prepper, kayaking, paddle boarding...the list goes on and on.

    So try proactively marketing to potential clients who fit into those three categories and see how that works. And hang in there, sis. You're going to make it. Good luck!
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  • Alisia,

    Congrats on wanting to improve your situation... it takes guts to open yourself up, ask for help, or open yourself to criticism... the fact you're okay with that makes me realize you really do want to improve.

    Sure, some of it can be a mindset thing... letting anxiety or fear hold you back CAN be devastating.

    But I've poked around your blog... and you definitely have the foundation needed to become an amazing copywriter, if that's what you want to do.

    The problem is, most CONTENT writing is seen as a simple commodity these days, and if they're paying 3 cents per word, your work is being seen as a commodity by your clients.

    If you leave, they probably feel 100 others can do what you do.

    That's why I really think studying and learning sales copywriting can be something you want to look
    into, because it's LESS likely you'll be seen as a commodity if you can help clients improve sales.

    That's the thing with a lot of content... if it's not done right, it doesn't really drive sales. Sure, in an SEO kind of way I guess it could, but most content online these days is dry, boring fluff.

    If you're ever going to get paid a much higher wage, you gotta find ways to help clients increase their sales, revenue, cash flow, etc...

    And content writing isn't usually the way. Sure, smart marketers know that using killer content the right way can really presell products a lot easier, but again, content is simply looked at as a commodity these days.

    With sales copywriting, you have more of a direct line chance to help clients/companies increase their sales... therefore they're much more likely to boost your income as well.

    The only way to earn more, is to offer more value, and become more valuable to companies and clients.

    And again, direct response/sales copwriting is often the fastest way to become more valuable to clients.

    You're no longer a commodity, or a COST, if you're making them money.

    Sure, it's not a fast answer to your question about increasing your income now, but it's an approach that I feel would serve you better in the long run.

    If you can, study copywriting if you haven't yet, read great ads, study the top books, join some of the copy forums/facebook groups... and start to learn about copy.

    And once you've gotten a foundation under you... try to break away from the pack, and focus on becoming well known in ONE niche, and for ONE type of service.

    By becoming an expert in one niche, and doing one kind of copy, it's a good way to establish yourself as an expert... so that people come to you, versus you always having to look for clients.

    I've seen copywriters become well versed in writing fitness VSLs, to the point that they have clients lining up to hire them. Or maybe you become the copywriter known for writing emails for the real estate niche.

    Over time, if you become well known in a certain niche/industry... and then try and become an expert at one particular kind of copy (VSL, email, presell content, etc)... this is how you start to break away from the pack, become less of a copy commodity, and have people searching YOU out.

    Becoming a known expert for one niche/type of copy is a much easier way to get clients than being an "everything to everyone" copywriter.

    In the meantime, try and find, or come up with, an amazing piece of content that you've done, that sells YOU and your service, and try to get that out there and seen. Whether it's advertising that killer piece of content on Facebook, or Google, or in Facebook groups, forum signatures, etc... putting that killer piece of content out there could get some eyeballs to you and your service.

    I've hired copywriters simply after reading a piece of content they wrote, and I wanted that style/voice in my content, so I hired them.

    But it really comes down to getting your best stuff in front of more eyeballs... while possibly making the transition to sales copywriting, and less content writing, unless you truly only want to do content writing. If that's the case, I'd still try and focus on marketing content that can influence a client's sales... because the only way to earn a lot more than you are, is to become much more valuable.

    And again, it's easier when you can add zeros to a company's bottom line, which is almost impossible to do with regular content that's seen as a commodity/search engine bait.

    So, that's my thoughts... focus on becoming more valuable, by becoming known for a particular niche/style of copy that can directly improve sales.

    And in the mean time, work on promoting a killer piece of content you've written... and promote it any way you can, and at the end of it, have a way for people to get a hold of you.

    I think by focusing on ways to become more valuable, you can start to look in those places where people who VALUE good writing/copy hang out.

    I just read a post in a Facebook group where a very well known copywriter got his first big breaks by going to marketing seminars... so that's another avenue to think of.
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  • Does content writing pay well for anyone? I have a feeling that low pay is just the "industry standard" for content writing.

    Content writing is a relatively new field, and it began with low pay. I think that's the way it's going to stay...

    Making it as a copywriter is hard enough, let alone as a content writer.

    I have a feeling that most of the responses you're getting here are from folks who think you're asking about copywriting.
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    • Yep, if you're being paid 3 cents a word... you're being looked at as a commodity, and most content IS viewed that way. They view it as something that anyone can do, and you can be replaced in seconds, with someone who will create similar content.

      The only way to branch out and make more with content writing... is to become good at something known as content marketing, which often can be used to presell something, or it's something killer you want to put out there... because it will help a lot of people in a particular niche.

      If you write content that's used mostly as search engine bait, you'll be viewed as and paid as a commodity.

      If you can write very unique, different, and killer content that presells something, or gets a lot of eyeballs to it, like a viral piece of content... then you can earn more.

      So, yes if you do content like most people, you'll be paid like most people... which is not much at all.

      If you can become very good at writing content marketing, stuff that's still largely content and not purely sales driven.. but can presell something, then you can make a bit more.

      But, you still need some knowledge of copywriting to do content marketing, since you need to focus on selling the benefits.

      I agree, content writing as a whole is usually low paying, since it's viewed as a commodity. To be paid more, you gotta be more valuable, and content marketing can often be a good bridge between writing content, and doing direct response copy.

      Alisia, check out Joe Pulizzi if you haven't yet... his 2 books on content marketing are pretty good...

      JoePulizzi.com - Content Marketing Speaker, Strategist and Thought Leader
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  • I think I haven’t put enough effort in. I have focused on living paycheck to paycheck, more concerned with my weekly bottom line than long-term goals. I can afford to change this and devote more hours to rebranding myself as a copywriter.

    I believe I am a copywriter because I’ve written many white pages for various marketing companies. The problem is I’m allowing these companies to commit wage fraud. The companies I currently give my time to are the middle man, but with confidence and support I can cut him off. I can stop allowing others to put their names on my work and take the credit and the money.

    I have read a few eBooks on copywriting, including The Copywriter’s Handbook and a few Kindle Unlimited titles. If any of you have written guides, please link me.

    I think I need to rethink the samples I’m including in pitches, inquiries, and applications. I’ve been the “everything copywriter” or “everything content writer.” I’ve been sending a random sampling of my most prestigious work, with a few relevant samples included; instead, I should be sending only niche samples, so it’s more apparent I’m an expert.

    Do you think it’s a good idea to create samples? For instance, mock a brochure? I have plenty of product descriptions, and a few white papers. But, the content I’ve created is so varied. I need samples that are niche specific.

    I’m going to get materials together, including creating some firm examples of my copywriting abilities in my niche fields. Then, I’m going to reach out to business owners and websites in those fields. I will remake my pitch inquiry, which at the moment reads more like a JOB application than an example of my ability to sell, specifically sell myself as a copywriter.

    Thank you so much: all of you. Before heading to bed later this evening, I’m going to start researching and planning for upcoming conferences. I can handle it. I’ve wanted to go one or two for some time. I’m more geared up now than ever.
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    • You lost me on that one - if you are a writer and you aren't happy with what you are earning YOU have to do something about it. Blaming the companies for paying what the market will bear doesn't even touch on logic.

      It did for me. I wrote in niches I had interest/expertise in only....and earned mid 4 figures a month working VERY part time. Never went to a conference - don't like crowds and speeches bore me.

      It doesn't matter which way you go - you have to pick a direction and push ahead. YES, you should have a portfolio of samples - if you are targeting a specific business...create some examples for THEIR business!
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  • Tl:dr since this has delved into nitpicking over words and feeling the need to lecture or create an angry dialog, I have unfollowed this post. I invite all of you who have offered true mentorship to please inbox me with your connection information. I am more than happy to barter for additional guidance or receive advice on where to view educational resources. Thank you.
  • OK - none of this is nitpicking, and you're gonna have to get some thicker skin.

    One woman to another. If you interpret everything as an attack and get your hackles up, you're in for a long, rough road.

    Wage theft is something that is legally defined as something an employer does to an employee. We are talking the definition of employee vs. independent contractor.

    Freelance writers, by definition, are not employees. We're contractors.

    In other words, the rate you're paid is because you agreed to it. Otherwise they wouldn't pay you and you wouldn't do the work.

    You can't sue these guys for damages here - you had an agreement. You'd be better served to let go of the angst, chalk it up to learning, and find someone that pays a fair rate.

    And just a hint - before you assume someone is jumping down your throat, examine the words and the tone and look at the person posting. No one here called you a moron or insisted you were an idiot. Everyone was helpful and encouraging, even if a bit blunt.

    You're talking about forum members who have been thanked thousands of times for providing helpful advice and guidance to people who need it.

    Some of us even put our real names out there because we stand behind that advice.

    You want real advice, you're better served talking to someone that won't kiss your ass, but will instead tell you the truth, even when you don't want to hear it.

    Hint: I'm gonna hazard a guess that with few exceptions, the people that inbox you (passive action on your part) will be seeking to make money off you. Whereas if you go after people (proactive action on your part), you're not always going to hear what you want to, but the advice will be priceless.

    Are you sure you're ready for a mentor?
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    • Shirley Brown - Woman To Woman - YouTube
      Awesomely put Angie. Really diva4lisia. You should take this to heart. You're going to take a LOT of criticism in this biz. You'll also confronted with a lot of "rudeness." Much of it will come from people who don't intend to be. Hell I'd put myself at the top of that category.

      Once in a while, it's okay to hit the bullies back. But if you don't learn to turn the other cheek sometimes, you'll miss a lot of opportunities to build character.

      ANTI-BUTTHURT DISCLAIMER: I am in no way intending to call any of the commentators on this thread a "bully."

      "Wage fraud" is a strong word. Perhaps an appropriate one for people who abuse writers by paying them #%#@ rates. And yes, for every chump out there paying lousy rates, there are thousands willing to drop their pants for them. Yes, this irritates the crap out of me too. But I accept it.

      Not because it's acceptable, but because I have better things to do than worry about people who have low standards for themselves or who take advantage of people who are just trying to get ahead. And yes, every once in while, you'll catch me on a rant. It's as good a way to blow off steam as any. Kind of fun sometimes.

      But putting these people in the category of "wage criminals..." well, even if it's true...who's gonna put em' in jail? If you want to rant about criminals, you'll never run out of material. Hell, in my opinion, this country is practically being run by the biggest group of white collar criminals on the planet.

      But don't let it rent space in your head dear. And don't look for the devil under every bush. Sometimes, people are just trying to help...and when you ask for help on a public forum, you, by default, open yourself up to some drama and "friendly fire."

      That's part of the price you pay for learning new things. Learn to eat the fruit and spit out the pits.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • Then you may be running in too many forums with people who are aspiring to be writers but haven't figured out to make it. Yeah, successful writers are in the minority.

    But so are successful news anchors. And golfers. And basketball players. And executives. And every industry out there.

    You've even got people who wait tables who make a damn good living.

    What separates any of these people from the masses who aren't "making it"?

    Writers aren't some anomaly off in the ether - the only ones being sold some mythical, unobtainable dream and then being paid unrealistic wages.

    But we seem to be one of the few professions comfortable with saying "that's what the market rate is and it's never gonna change, so suck it up".

    If you're comfortable (figurative you, not you personally) making that rate, then you can have it 'cause I don't want it. And as long as you believe that's the rate you should earn, you'll earn it. Period. VERY few altruistic business owners are going to offer to raise your rates out of the kindness of their hearts if you don't make a strong case and build value.

    There's MORE than enough work to go around. You know how many people I know starving for good content and sales collateral in the bay area alone? No one has the guts to go find these guys and seek them out. Most writers wait to be found instead of taking initiative.

    And like many posters said above - you can either get out there and put yourself in front of people and build value and get paid (which is inherently risky and a turn off to aspiring writers)...

    ...or you can keep checking job boards and gig sites and hoping you're "discovered" by the right people or luck into making a decent wage competing with foreign writers with a lower cost of living.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Actually, those are analogies that play into my argument, so we're (once again) probably on the same page, but looking at it from different angles.

      Yes, the writing field is a lot like the field of sports -- low bar to entry, with a small minority who can actually make a living of it, even with extraordinary talent and drive.

      It's like waiting tables too... low bar to entry, and few make a whole lot of money at it.

      In fact, it's more like waiting tables than pro sports, in that it's easy to make SOME money at it... You're just not likely to make a lot of money at it.

      Only question is, does the aspirant feel good about the odds? Your angle is "go for it -- a minority of people make it big & the sky's the limit"... My angle is "Take a hard, realistic look at it -- because most people don't make it -- and then decide whether you want to go for it or not."

      In other words, if I had a child who wanted to be a writer, I'd try to persuade her to shoot for some other field with a higher bar to entry and a more even distribution of people who make a living at at (eg. engineer, nurse, software developer) ...

      If I were advising someone who's middle aged and has been laid off, I'd say the same...

      Writing, with it's low bar to entry (and low pay and low odds for success) will always be there... Invest your youth, energy and determination in something with a better guarantee... Look at the stats (there are decades of data out there) and don't put all your eggs in such a flimsy basket as "writing"... (Let alone "content writing" )
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  • Alisia,

    Not sure if you'll read this, but this is coming from a place of caring, and not negativity.

    If you're going to make it online, where you want to be, you will HAVE to develop a thick skin
    and take in criticism for what it is: people who care enough, to take the time out of their day, to leave you some advice and comments.

    If none of the great people here, like Marcia, Seth, Angie, Ray, Rick, Andrew, Kay, and others... if they didn't care...

    You'd hear crickets.

    You can tell a troll from someone who is dishing out tough love. So just take it for what it is... people who are trying to help... not hurt.

    Sh*t. I remember posting a link to one of my sites on here back in 2003, and Harlan Kilstein told me it sucked.

    And since I looked up to Harlan, I went back and worked on that letter for months. And it paid off.

    Look, if you're online, you'll deal with sh*t heads.

    Any time you step out of your comfort zone, and try to get ahead, you'll deal with negative people who will try to hold you back.

    None of that was done here.... I truly feel that everyone on this thread took time out of their day to help you... not to piss you off.

    And sure, maybe it's tough love here and there... but the biz world isn't all roses and candy canes.

    I had a guy back in 2004 or so, illegally sell my ebooks on Ebay, and everywhere else online.

    I had him shut down, for selling my property, and he proceeded to harass me for a year, for shutting down for illegally selling MY frigging stuff.

    Those are the morons you will have to deal with... those who selfishly just want to make your life hell.

    But, those who are in this to help you... you gotta see tough love for what it is: helpful advice.

    Every single person on this thread, has probably done and lived through some of the same struggles you have, or worse.

    And I really feel everyone here took the time out of their day to offer assistance, any way they could.

    So, don't look at it as a place of nitpicking, look at it as a place for some tough love.

    But in all honesty, you seem like a VERY smart woman. And if there's one piece of advice I can offer you, that's helped me in 14 years, it's this: grow a thick skin, take advice from those who may have done what you want, just avoid the negative naysayers who offer no value, and just keep moving forward... refusing to give up.

    Best of luck Alisia!
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
  • [DELETED]
  • A little sad. OP wants advice - but only on her terms. Often it's the stuff you don't want to hear or the stuff you don't like that is the most valuable of all.

    Growth is at the edges, not where you're comfortable.

    Guess she's really not ready for the answer yet. Too bad.

    Anyone considering freelancing for more $ might want to look at Wealthy Freelancer - Steve Slaunwhite or Earn $1K by Ramit Sethi.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • Diva4lisia,

    If you come back to this thread, grab The Well Fed Writer.

    You'll learn 3 things almost immediately:

    1. Where to find clients who pay well
    2. Why most online sources suck and always will suck
    3. Most freelance writers are not at all like the folks who've posted

    We're a lot friendlier and get what it is to be frustrated. We usually don't take pot-shots on forums. We've been there, done that, and know all you need is a point in the right direction. And the freedom to be frustrated right now.

    I started out higher on the pay-scale than you did. But that doesn't make me better than you. And that's the tone that Bowerman wrote his guide in. Which is the way it should be.

    Chances are good you and I will never compete with one another. So why would I want to position myself higher than you?

    I don't.

    And neither do most freelance writers. There are some good videos that have been uploaded to YouTube by other freelancers that should also help point you in the right direction.

    Here's 2:

    The Well-Fed Writer: Freelance Round Table #20 - YouTube
    The Well-Fed Self-Publisher with Peter Bowerman: Freelance Round Table #26 - YouTube
    Both are worth watching more than once. As you can see, they both have Peter Bowerman in them. Still, get the hardbound copy of The Well Fed Writer and keep it as both a resource and a source for inspiration/motivation when things don't go as well as you'd hope them to.

    That happens.

    There are rainy days every now and again.

    But the sun eventually shines once more.

    Hope you get paid what you are worth,

    -- Bryan

    ... Here's a bonus one so it doesn't come across like it's just all about The Well Fed Writer.

    How to Become a Well-Paid Freelance Writer (Episode #9) - YouTube
    Getting the ball rolling when you first start out is the hardest it will probably ever be. If you can weather that, you'll be fine. There are gigs that have nothing to do with sales writing that will pay you more than you made in a month at your current situation, that may take a week or two to finish.

    But even if you don't get those gigs right away, it's entirely possible to earn $ 500 to $ 1000 a week writing for smaller businesses and while that may not be impressive enough to cast you as a guru on Warrior Forum, it will pay the bills in Batavia and then some.

    (Which is all that really matters anyhow.)
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • A slight bit of irony there.

      It is definitely true that you have to find your tribe in this field and in business.

      It is definitely true that there are some strong personalities here.

      But if all you take away from conversations like these is pot shots? You're definitely missing the bigger picture.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • The fact that probably 95% of the posts above are NOT pot shots at all?

    We've all been given tough advice in our careers, whether delivered nicely or not. It simply may be that the OP is not ready to hear some things or is not ready to let go of some things.

    I wanted to be a pit bull on the first guy to rip me off - to pay me a deposit, take my first draft, jerk me around and claim it sucked and he wasn't paying another cent - only to turn around and plaster my copy all over the internet. (added benefit: apparently it didn't suck as much as he claimed, or he wouldn't have used it - I'll take the ego reinforcement)

    I had DMCA on my side and I used it. But I spent a LOT of time and mental energy devising creative ways to make that guy pay, to make him rue the day he ****ed with Angie.

    A lot of that anger and frustration I recognize in the OP - she's frustrated that she feels she's getting ripped off by these guys' rates. They're shitty rates, man. Totally agree.

    None of that changes the fact that she AGREED to those rates and did the work.

    It's supremely hard to admit, and a sure sign of career and personal growth - but WE HAVE RESPONSIBILITY in what happens to us.

    I worked with the dude that ripped me off despite the pit in my gut that told me he was an asshole on day 1. I wanted the money. I got some of it, and a lot more headache than I got cash in my pocket.

    She's pissed, and rightfully so. It's difficult to make a living on that kind of money. Believe me, I get it. I live in the San Francisco bay area - median rent for a 2bed is $5K.

    But you have to be willing to let go of what makes you pissed off (or doesn't serve your career/goals) or it's a vicious, neverending cycle.

    Kay and Marcia had the right of it - this is not wage theft. This is someone taking advantage of freelance writers. This is not an employer/employee scenario. This is an agreement between two legal entities, both of which can sever the agreement when the terms no longer suit.

    Clinical, detached language aside - easier said than done.

    But pointing out to someone something they don't want to hear ain't exactly a glamorous thing either.

    And I'm SO FREAKING GLAD that people here told me to not let that asshole client take up any more of my brain space, to take what money I made and the lessons I learned, and move on with my head held high.

    I didn't want to hear it. I thought some of them were rude assholes.

    Thank god for those rude assholes. They changed my life.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [3] replies
    • I'm simple minded. Which is why I like sales and copywriting. Did it sell? Yes or no? The only question that matters.

      Did their advice help the OP or did it chase her off?

      It chased her off.

      Therefore, it did not sell.

      Everything else is just justification for why it didn't sell.

      You may like rude assholes. Most people don't.

      And that includes most lucrative clients.

      Treat others the way you'd like to be treated.

      Corny. But still ain't a bad way to be.
      • [3] replies
    • Masterfully said ^^^^

      This isn't just relevent to writers... It's a global and universal issue, which requires an entire introspection of self worth, and understanding your time, skills, and energy.

      I am NOT (as of yet) earning a fulltime income online. Impart, I've yet to accept wholeheartedly that I am capable, ready, or even deserving of the kind of money I can make writing online.

      But it goes much deeper, while I cannot deny action speaks volumes when it comes to marketing yourself, your time, your skills to be benefitial to all parties... is most likely an intimacy issue... -or- as "The Love Guru" Says; "Into Me You See" issue.

      My greatest fear, is being ill prepared, or desperate when I sell or position myself to market and sell my writings, in fear of being chastised to low market values.

      Example:

      I just walked off a job over very similiar circumstances as Angie mentions above... Only I considered the guy a friend, and someone whom I have done several contractural gigs for over the past 2-3 years.

      *Mind you I'm referring to home renovations, bathrooms, kitchens, tile, flooring, plumbing... You name it, I can do it all, at top-level professional grade quality. Although, a few years back, I lost a shitload of money, assets, credit, etc...

      Seeking no sympathy (or pity) - I've accepted lesser wages, as I am no longer licensed & insured, and farm out work from friends, acquaintances, and word-of-mouth affiliations.

      In short, I've never billed or made less than $15 -$20 working through this one resource, ever! (* even this is low end IMHO)

      A few days into the project, changes arose. "Add this, let's take that out, etc..."

      Naturally, I picked up the phone; "yo bro, she's changing this, demanding that, or wanting more or less - something other... So, it is NOT the same scope of work. I'll handle it, I just want to make sure you'll 'renegotiate the costs' of my extra time and effort, yada, yada, yada."

      "Oh, of course, no worries - you'll get paid for your time, I'll get with her.. Thanks for getting this done for me, yada, yada, yada!"

      Long story short, jobs now done, and looks amazing. What was supposed to be a 3-4 day gig paying $500 - $600...

      12 days invested, all 8-10 hour days busting my @$$, which is nothing out of the ordinary...

      Until, I asked him for my money!

      $600?

      WTF???

      Hello... Uh, no f**king way pal, you definitely have me confused with one of your flunkie - bike riding, no skilled dopeheads that show up to pick up trash, or tote sh!t.

      I just completely remodeled 2 bathrooms... For $600?

      No.

      Yesterday... after 5 days of solace, whereby I long since walked off the job and passed on 'other' work deriving from the same job... He called.

      Apologizing. "Well, I really didn't think about it much. She (a realtor) has more work... Some paint jobs, etc... (Referencing his main trade, his future money, not mine) and I interupted...

      "What's good for the goose, is not always good for the gander!"

      Another words, he couldn't see past his future earnings to realize; by giving my time away, he just burned a bigger bridge, as he always makes bank off of my work!

      I threatened a workman's lean, as the realtor plans to 'flip' the house to the tune of $75k profit, and she already has a buyer lined up!" (FYI... with a Workman's Lean she cannot sell or flip the house until resolving the lean first!)

      Oh, he's all too quick to 'beg me' not to do that, cause on the books, I am a 1099 sub-contractor working under him, and if shit hits the fan... He is NOT licensed for structural, plumbing, and/or 90% of the work he's been doing!

      Now, in conclusion, and the point here... I am not licensed either, hence the reason I choose to work for far less these days... But, NEVER, and I mean never will I put in 8-10 hour days for $50 per day using my truck, my skills, my gas, my tools, and on a 1099!

      *Hell, when I was licensed, I averaged $100 - $200 per hour as a sub-contractor. (Different times, different mindset!)

      Today's current problem, is not some recession or depression... That is all a lie, to provoke desperation, control, and conform... And breeds a 'common misconception' or in short; FEAR into the minds of the weak!

      Example:

      "If you don't take this wage or .05 per word, there's a 1000 others that will line up for the (so-called) opportunity!"

      What they don't tell you is; for every 1000 idiots (not directing this at anyone specifically here) that take the minimum wage bait... There are 'the few' who see the problem, recognize, accept, and stand both accountable & apart from the problem!

      I've yet to overcome all my fears, especially, in creating self-published works that pay residual incomes. There too, I refrained to 'rush in' and act or take action even as a writer yet, not because I am not a doer or afraid to work...

      Instead, it's because; "I refuse to sell my time & myself to the likes of those who metaphorically prostitute their time, skills, mind, and body for pennies of what they are worth!"

      As I did for 20 years doing construction offline!!!

      I think it was a warrior named ChristopherFox who posted this link to pricing products online a week or so ago....

      http://mavenprofits.com/advanced/ove...coaching-model

      I've read it 3x this week, grateful I've been patient in selling my writings... Simply because, I knew; $7 products, $27 products might be better than .03 - .05 per word writings, but, WHY limit oneself to create another 40, 60, 80 or 100 hour work week, all the same?

      To the OP, I feel the same way about 'remodeling homes' for nearly 20 years - and I speak from a different experience, but the principles (your integrity) is at stake... Not your employers... Not the 1000's of others who drive the price down to the dirt, and then bitch; "this is bullshit!"

      Cultivate your knowledge, use thus thread, and threads like it... Craft a $1297 writers course that helps the 1000's that are feeling like dirt...rise above and overcome the very fears you are experiencing! - and let it feul your innermost desire to help others escape HELL!

      How much would you pay to make $100,000 per year writing online?

      Seriously... Now look behind you... How many people feel like you do (did) working their asses off for (forgive my French) shitty wages?

      It's "all in your head" - I know; cause I wasted nearly a decade fighting to regain my dignity in the construction industry, only to realize; " even when I made $100k a year in construction, I was killing myself to barely get ahead."

      One shift in the economy, one shift in the housing market, and KaBooM!!! - 20 years of my life vanished!

      Guess who's fault it was?

      The government's?

      The bank?

      God? Or Satan?

      My employers?

      Mommy or Daddy's?

      Hell no, it was my fault!

      Because, I convinced myself; I liked the punishment. As Maury (who I cannot stand) would say; "The lie detector determined... That WAS a LIE!"

      I stand accountable for my $750,000 in losses, and this time I'm building a rock solid foundation that cannot be easily taken away.

      I sincerely hope you find 'you're truth, you're calling, and through writing can help, encourage, and aspire others to remove the blinders and pain you're experiencing WRITE NOW!!!" - think about it, "How many content mills abuse the writers true value?"

      You voiced your problem, simple solution... Provide a product or course that helps others break free... Do it right, the skies the limit.

      Warm Regards,

      Art Moran

      Will edit later... written on my cell.... at Walmart waiting on the wife to emerge from the 3 hour tour, lol - [whistles...Gilligan's Island Theme Song]
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • This thread is a, the poster above DABK is opening year old posts on the forum just to make a statement.
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  • What you're doing wrong is you are doing all of the work, heck, you're doing MORE than all of the work you need to be doing if you did it for yourself instead of for somebody else, and there's NO CAP in how much money you can make when you do it for yourself.

    You only need a few more steps to turn your writing talent into any type of business you want, you just need some ideas, but from not on focus on business instead of finding someone to work for.

    You're handing away what could be serious chunks of money for very little.

    Start learning about information products and blogging. Buy blogging with John Chow it's probably less than 60 bucks and will tell you everything you need to know to at least have your mind pointed in the right direction.

    You could seriously even write a 4-8,000 word short erotica and put it on kindle, or longer erotic romance and put it on kindle, and put up something new as often as possible and you could start making some serious money. Just whatever you do make sure you're doing it for yourself and not for anybody else, that's what you are missing. You are trying to get someone else to pay you insane amounts of money instead of trying to figure out how to create insane amounts of money.

    Just put your focus on having your own business whether it's kindle publishing, selling information products, blogging, affiliate marketing, or a combination of all of those things.

    You won't find any overnight success. It's not like a job so you can't just do the work and automatically have someone pay you a certain amount of money, so don't quit what you're doing right now, just start focusing on what I told you, and you'll find your path from there.

    some stuff to search:
    john chow
    eben pagan
    information products
    kindle publishing
    clickbank (for selling your own info products and others but put your focus on your own)
    e-mail marketing (use aweber)

    You're doing a ton of work, and the thing is with your own business all the work builds on top of itself.

    If you had 100 romance titles on kindle right now, you would be getting paid for those 100 books forever even though you only had to write them once.

    If you find someone to hire you to write 100 books, then you get underpaid, and you only get paid one time, and that person will get paid for your work over and over again for possibly their whole lifetime or even longer.

    Definitely focus on business even though it sounds intimidating and sounds like there's a lot to learn there's really not that much.

    Like I said you could start with blogging with john chow and that will definitely give you a good start, or even just to get started and started fast with very little to learn just write some erotic romance novels and publish them on amazon kindle and just have a cover made on fiverr.com

    If all I did was write all day, oh man, I'd be flipping rich as hell I can just never get myself to write so you have some serious potential. Start cranking out your own products and I'm sure you'll do well in life.
    • [1] reply
    • Hear, hear.

      Life isn't a bowl of roses. But you are the one who decides whether you're going to blame others, get revenge, stay stuck in your anger and resentment - or put it behind you and find a better way.

      You can let it go and thereby find release from unhappiness. That gives you the energy for a productive solution.

      That's the thing. It's hard to admit that fear is one of the elements keeping us "trapped." I put "trapped" in quote marks because feeling trapped is a perception and not a hard-and-fast reality. Our original poster felt trapped but, as Angie pointed out, that was as much her doing as anyone else's.

      It's interesting how what started off seeming like a career dilemma can turn out to be an existential one: Would you rather be right about your way of viewing things or released from what felt like a trap?

      Marcia Yudkin
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  • To be upfront, I am no expert in the content writing field, but from what I see, there is a lot of very poorly paying content mills. Maybe try and break into a secondary area of writing. Something like grant writing, or technical writing or copywriting. Whatever you think you can get work in in your area. Obviously, you probably have thought of this but just adding. You are young, you can go do literally anything you want.
  • *slow claps for Art*

    Man, I can't even tell you how much I admire you for that. It's super tough to admit when a "friend" is not treating you like a friend and you have to either suck it up and take it or tell them to stuff it. I'm glad you stood up for yourself.

    Hey, don't beat yourself up for being cautious and not jumping in head first. I've been urged to go faster/just go for it my entire career - in the end I've gotta go at the pace that's right for me, even if it seems glacially slow to others.

    The key is making sure you're laying good foundation (see what I did there?) so that everything else you're building, thoughtfully, slowly, over time... will withstand whatever life throws at it.

    You're heading the right direction - keep up the great work and work at the pace that makes YOU feel everything is worth it.
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  • If this is your passion and I believe you are good at it. Never give up. I remember few years back i have been trying to get jobs from online freelancing websites such as odesk and other sites exists that time and never made a single dollar. But what happens is, if you don't lose hope and you keep trying, you will have your own break. Somebody out there will actually trust you to do one job and eventually trust you for another. The cycle goes on. Once you satisfied a first client online from freelancing jobs, they will give you are review. And from there, things will start to come right for you. So, you might want to take that opportunity and try. Never give up. Keep trying. Keep getting better.
  • Okay, my post here offers no value at all.

    I just think it's funny as hell we're all going on and on with this post,
    long after the OP took her ball and went home... because someone
    on the playground was giving tough love.

    She's like "See ya" 5 days ago... and here I am... still posting something.

    I dunno, I just found it funny. Sh*t... I gotta go find something productive to do...
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    • [1] reply
    • Welcome to the club - why should you be any different?

      You know how sometimes you are talking to someone and realize they aren't listening...but only waiting till you shut up so they can talk? All the time you are wasting explaining what you "mean" - that person is focused on what THEY will say as soon as they get a chance.

      Maybe threads like this are the online equivalent?
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  • Irony of ironies, the OP pays peanuts when she farms out work...

    I'm Hiring Again - WAHM Forums - WAHM.com

    Not knockin' -- just sayin'.
    • [1] reply
    • Now, that's ironic, indeed!

      But makes sense. If she gets paid more than $5.75 an article of 500 words, that is.

      And, if she got paid $28 per article she farms out at $5.75, not $7, it's ironic to the power of 1000.

      • [2] replies
  • Lol. Gotta admit -- you got me there. That rings true.

    But writers who publish regularly aren't these average people. They aren't joe schmo at the pizza shop.

    Lots of writers who have talent & strategy enough to publish regularly -- and determination & discipline enough to stay in the game for years -- report that they need other sources of income (teaching, etc.) in order to pay the bills and eat well.

    Most of them report that in fact.

    Google the term "writers don't make money" and you'll find a lot of articles citing data proving the point.

    Much of the data comes from surveying members of writers associations (eg. Authors Guild) -- people who presumably know all about discipline, determination and strategy by virtue of being part of their guild. I'm sure they're not fools (ie. they know enough about research to find their way to the most lucrative markets for their talents), yet they still struggle.

    I mean, realistically, most people who are interested in a writing career -- especially magazine writing -- are familiar with the dire stats I refer to... I don't think you can dismiss those stats with the point that most writers are untalented and undisciplined. Real writers still struggle. The real world bears this out.

    I do indeed. It's an interesting discussion.

    To be honest, I'm sorta in the same camp as you guys. I say if you have a dream, go for it, especially if you have few financial responsibilities. That's what life is about! Ultimately you'll find your way to where you're supposed to be.

    Plus, even the safest of careers offers no guarantee these days.

    ...But content writing as a career? That's just a step above setting out to make a living as a poet. "Work smart" is my motto. A career as a content writer isn't smart, unless your living expenses are "third-world" low...

    P.s. -- those points I posted about what it takes to make it were in reference to working with clients (eg. as a content writer or copywriter), not magazine writing. ...So they're all valid in that respect.

    P.p.s. -- I know a whole lot about magazine writing (that's one of the reasons I wrote it off as a career... It's just not a good bet...) Have you ever been a magazine editor?
  • Your beliefs dictate your behaviours determine your results.

    The average person doesn't succeed—true.

    Being above average is easy—true.

    The work required to be WELL above average is extremely enjoyable—for me, true.

    No statistic will stop me.

    They don't have to stop you either.

    P.S. You're literally searching for instances and data to prove a belief you already hold that writers don't make money.

    Why not go searching for all the reasons you can?
    • [1] reply
    • Don't get me wrong -- I'm aware of the ways writers can make a living. (I'm currently a freelance writer & have held my own for a while now...)

      I just see the whole picture and have come to the conclusion (based on the stats, including pay rates) that content writing and magazine writing aren't worth the odds.

      Not only that, but if you go looking for all the evidence that writers do indeed make fortunes, you'll have to wade through an infinite amount of b.s. from people trying to sell you stuff. All the "positive" voices come with a price tag. The more realistic outlooks come from professionals in the trenches, professional organizations, etc. Their encouragement is more tempered...

      I don't completely buy that. Reality has a say too. Step one: accurate assessment of the reality -- market & otherwise... As always...

      Skip that & you're due for setback after setback after setback... and even worse, you'll have no clue what's behind it, so you won't even adjust your aim well! Assessing the reality is key. The better you do it, the better the outcome.
      • [1] reply
  • I think diva4lisia might not be reading this thread anymore, so it might be best to send her a private message if you really care about her, and want to help her out....
  • Hi
    You are an expert an writing content,that is a golden nugget in internet marketing.

    Use that awesome skill to get massive traffic to your blog,and sell products in your niche.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • An awesome idea.

      Everybody (including me) has been moved into the box: must find writing clients when the OP's issue is that she doesn't feel she's sufficiently compensated for her writing. Using her writing outside the 'writer-for-hire' area, why didn't I think of it?

    • Good advice. This is exactly what I've been doing since my meltdown. As it turns out, there's enough from paid blogging opportunities and affiliate marketing to increase my monthly income by $400, which has given me the motivation to keep going. I haven't made anything from affiliate marketing yet, but the articles I've created to sell products have garnered attention from companies looking for bloggers and resulted in extra income.

      I also have created fan sites for entertainment businesses around where I live, such as Darien Lake (a theme park). I noticed there weren't other blogs dedicated to our theme park at all, so I created http://www.darienlakeinsider.com. It's still a WIP, but the park doesn't open until May. We always get season passes, so I'll be able to blog my adventures in the park this year and hopefully leverage for local advertising.

      To be extra effectual, I am only writing content for a couple hours every morning, so I've taken a bit of a backstep in terms of weekly payouts, but my income has not decreased. I scored a $250 blogging assignment and I've had clicks on my affiliate links; although, I've yet to secure a sale. I've only produced a few links so far and they're being clicked, so that is a motivator. And, the content I'm producing on my websites is attracting more free product and more paid opportunities, so I'm happy right now and going to keep pushing in this direction, as well as continue writing for the marketing company I work for (just less, so it doesn't drive me crazy). And, I do book publishing; although, I am slow with that.

      I thank you all for your help, kindness, and words of wisdom. No hard feelings. :-)
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  • Show some passion. Come to the interviews ready with suggestions and tell the manager how you want to improve them and yourself.
    • [1] reply
    • And if the manager ain't interested in self-improvement?

      We're back to square 1. Or, worse, the square before square 1.

      See, they can get your goat only if they know where you keep your goat; they can frustrated and take advantage of a freelancer only if the freelancer doesn't want to let go of them.
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    Advice needed...

    Another year is coming to a close, and I've yet to make any real strides in increasing my income. I've been writing for a prominant marketing company for four years, and they have billion dollar clients. I write content for huge brands (household names and Fortune 500 companies). In this four years, I have been dependable, but when I've asked for a rate increase I've been shot down repeatedly. The response is always that they pay all writers the same.I only make $0.03 per word. They rarely have to ask me for edits (just a handful of times per year). The work must be high-quality at all times, well-researched with references, and written on trending topics. I'm responsible for all research, edits, and ideation. I'm sad about this because it's independant contracting, so no overtime pay, no benefits, no paid time off, no Christmas bonuses, etc. I write for a few content mills, but, as many of you know, mills only pay out once a month or less, so I work overtime and then wait and wait and wait for checks and payments to arrive.