Where Have All the "Gurus" Gone?

7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

A few years back the Warrior Forum was a hotbed
of "copywriting guru" activity.

But most seem to have left.

Why do you think this is?

"Gone to mountain tops everyone" OR

"Gone to Facebook everyone"

If you define guru as a "teacher"...

Then many are busy teaching, as in being paid for their expertise.
Some may be busy actually writing.
A few linger and sigh.

And maybe, they've gone to greener fields, it might have something to do with the WF changes.

gjabiz

PS. Maybe, a few are still here, waiting for the student to appear, but that has become a "patience of Job"...job.

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Raydal

7 years ago

Simple. Facebook.

Facebook groups is the new forum these days.

-Ray Edwards

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Copydog

7 years ago

Ray

I'm glad you're still here – offering your words of
copywriting wisdom.

Best

Eldo

Thanks

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Copydog

7 years ago

Ray

Which Facebook groups are the ones most of the
"copywriting gurus" post on?

Thanks

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Aussie_Al

7 years ago

I also think the sheer flood of spam type postings since the take over have scared a lot of the old crowd away

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Andrew Gould

7 years ago

All the cool kids hang out at the The Cult of Copy now.

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Alex Cohen

7 years ago

This copywriting forum was never a place the gurus consistently hung out at.

In the "good old days" the place to be was Michel Fortin's forum.

Alex

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Copydog

7 years ago

Agreed, Michel's The Copywriters' Board
was the place to be.

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Copydog

7 years ago

[DELETED]

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Juan Jose

7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Off topic...

Where do you get support from the new WF?

I paid $20 a few hours ago to post the thread below
in the "Warriors for Hire" section (the money has
come out of my PayPal account).

But the thread doesn't show up in the threads
section.

When I tried to login to the Freelancer.com support
page, it wouldn't accept my login details!

Tried to get a new password, but have received no
password-reset email.
------------------------------------------------------------
TITLE: Get a FREE EMAIL...

"Free" in the sense that you pay me no money.

All you give me are (1) the RESULTS you get
from the email I write for you, after you send
it to your list, and (2) a TESTIMONIAL.

You gain a valuable FREE email that gets you
more leads/sales - which you can tweak and
resend to get even more leads/sales.

I get proof that my emails produce results.

Only 5 free emails available.

Send me a private message today and let's
arrange a time to talk on Skype about your
project.

(No doubt they'll delete this post shortly...)

Hey, Copydog!!

Were you able to solve this issue??

I'm about to launch a paid Warrior for Hire thread, and want to make sure everything is working as expected.

Thanks.

- Juan José Machado

Thanks

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~ MachadoWS ~

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angiecolee

7 years ago

Not daring to speak for the gurus, I know the reason I stay away these days is the glut of repetitive questions by people who want quick fixes and insta-riches.

Kinda rubs me the wrong way as someone who went homeless to get to where I am.

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AmericanMuscleTA

7 years ago

Whelp, a lot of the 'gurus' are here in the unofficial GKIC Dan Kennedy Facebook group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/gkiconlinerm/

and here in the Gary Halbert Copy Club:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/garyhalbertcopyclub/

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Copydog

7 years ago

Angie

Sorry to hear you were homeless – a bad place to be.

I always find value in your posts here on the WF.

Best

Eldo

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1 reply

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angiecolee 7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Angie

Sorry to hear you were homeless - a bad place to be.

I always find value in your posts here on the WF.

Best

Eldo

Meh, it was years ago. But that's what I chose to do to follow this career path, so sometimes it gets under my skin when people waltz in and assume anyone with a modicum of writing ability will suddenly get it and start making zillions.

I decided to be a copywriter. I did what I felt I had to do to get here.

If I hadn't made that decision, I imagine I'd be back in Texas waiting tables and wondering where I went wrong in my life.

Funny how something that seems to be the worst possible outcome at the time, can seem like the best thing to ever happen to you in retrospect.
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Copydog

7 years ago

Angie

Glad to hear you're now successful
as a copywriter.

Sounds like you had a tough road
to walk to get there...

Would love to hear your story if you'd
like to PM me (but, of course, it may
be too painful or too private for you
to share).

Have a great day in the copywriting
trenches.

Thanks
1 reply

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angiecolee

7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Angie

Glad to hear you're now successful
as a copywriter.

Sounds like you had a tough road
to walk to get there...

Would love to hear your story if you'd
like to PM me (but, of course, it may
be too painful or too private for you
to share).

Have a great day in the copywriting
trenches.

LOL no, I'm pretty sure I've told that story a few hundred times by now. I reserve the nitty gritty details for myself, but I think the overall story is one people need to hear.

I had been laid off and trying to make my copywriting career take off while taking unemployment and crashing on the couch of a VERY generous and understanding friend. I didn't get the career up and running very quickly, suffice it to say. Eventually the friend needed to move a growing family into a bigger place and I couldn't afford the bigger rent.

Desperation is a pretty heavy motivator, let me tell you.

That was a crossroads with two fairly clear options - go home to Texas and move in with the folks until I could find a job, most likely waiting tables as I'm a pretty strong hustler and did fairly well at it. Or stay in California with no place to live and very little income on the hopes that I was JUST around the corner from making it work.

I chose the latter option. My gut was right. Literally the DAY we turned over keys to the apartment (and I lost the roof over my head) was the day I signed the contract that kept me in California.

Thankfully my homeless stint was fairly short and I bounced in between sleeping in my car, the shittiest motel I've ever experienced in my life, and more generous friends with couches to spare until I found a new place to live.

And things have gotten better as I gained experience and kept applying what I learned. I won't profess to know it all - I've still got a hell of a lot of learning to do. But like any career field, this one is challenging.

People expecting insta-riches, beware.

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Copydog

7 years ago

Juan

Yes, I've resolved the issue, thanks.

Took the WSO a while to appear in
the WSO section.

I hope your Warrior for Hire thread
gets you tons of work.

Thanks

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AlanCarr

7 years ago

Dunno if I'd come under guru status but I generally shy away due to the dick-waving and attempts to impress rather than help.

Ironically I was accused of that myself recently, whilst questioning the idea of new cub writers paying someone $3000 for the privilege of writing assignments for him.... Meh.

For awhile there was a private forum, where we could just talk. I've had so many PCs die on my I've lost the address and don't know if it's still running?

Good to see my old friend Alex still here *waves @ Alex

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Copydog 7 years ago

Originally Posted by AlanCarr

For awhile there was a private forum, where we could just talk.

Is this still there?

Anyone know?
- Thanks
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Copydog

7 years ago

Alan

Thanks for your input.

You speak of "new cub writers paying someone $3000
for the privilege of writing assignments for him."

Astonishing!

Thanks
1 reply

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splitTest 7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Alan

Thanks for your input.

You speak of "new cub writers paying someone $3000
for the privilege of writing assignments for him."

Astonishing!

Heh heh.

Be careful out there! I've seen posts here by guys who are clearly beginners touting themselves as gurus, trying to sell their mentoring... In the age of the internet apparently "guru" status has a very low bar to entry...

Interesting article by Bob Bly about this "new breed" of copywriter...

https://freshpickeddeals.com/bly.com...writer-1666457
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Copydog

7 years ago

Excuse my ignorance...

But Alan and Angie both had "Meh" in their replies.

What is "Meh," please?

Thanks
1 reply

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AlanCarr

7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Excuse my ignorance...

But Alan and Angie both had "Meh" in their replies.

What is "Meh," please?

Meh is like a shrug, but with less enthusiasm....

PS: the private forum was not part of the WF, instead a private little place with about a dozen or so copywriters in it.

AC

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Copydog 7 years ago

Originally Posted by AlanCarr

Meh is like a shrug, but with less enthusiasm...

OK, thanks for the enlightenment!
- Thanks
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Copydog

7 years ago

Originally Posted by AlanCarr

Meh is like a shrug, but with less enthusiasm....

PS: the private forum was not part of the WF, instead a private little place with about a dozen or so copywriters in it.AC

Alan

Thanks for your enlightenment.

The "private little place" sounds intriguing.

Thanks

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angiecolee

7 years ago

Wow - I kinda hate the changes being made here. First I couldn't log in this morning, and now the damn thing ate my long reply.

Eldo, I share the homeless story fairly often because I think people need to hear it. I'm not ashamed of or embarrassed by it in the least. I was at the time, for sure. I kept it hidden here, even though I was becoming a more active member of the Copywriting forum.

Being successful at anything requires tough choices. In retrospect, that's pretty much what I consider this to be. A tough choice that turned out to be the right one.

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Copydog 7 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

Being successful
at anything requires tough choices.

Angie

It would be fascinating to hear what steps you took
to raise yourself from homelessness to success.

Could do with some inspiration right now...

And I'm sure your story would inspire others
who've stopped by this thread.
- Thanks
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Copydog 7 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

Wow - I kinda hate
the changes being made here. First I couldn't log in
this morning, and now the damn thing ate my long
reply.

FRUSTRATING...

I too hate it when a post gets chewed up - best to draft
it in a text editor so you can just copy and paste it again,
if you have to.
- Thanks
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- Copydog 7 years ago
  
  Angie
  
  Two things stand out from your story:
  
  1. Follow your gut feeling.
  
  2. Follow your dream, no matter what.
  
  Life is tough, but "fortune favors the brave."
  
  I've often found that that final bit of effort is
  what wins the day – had I given up one step
  sooner, I would have failed.
  
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- joe golfer 7 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Copydog
  
  FRUSTRATING...
  
  I too hate it when a post gets chewed up – best to draft
  it in a text editor so you can just copy and paste it again,
  if you have to.
  
  Just get a utility like Ditto that saves everything you copy to a clipboard manager.
  
  Ditto clipboard manager
  
  Right before you submit a post, highlight the text and hit Ctrl-C (on Windows). The clipboard manager utility keeps a running log of everything you copy (up to 500 items, I think.) If your post gets obliterated, you open up the utility (it sits in RAM) and there is your text. Copy it back to the the thread and try again. Saved my bacon many times.
  
  Or just get in the habit of copying the text before you submit. It will be in RAM until you copy something else. If your post gets zapped, you can open a new one and hit Ctrl-V and the text should be there. This works if WF is acting up. But if your computer crashes, you'll lose the text in memory.
  
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Copydog

7 years ago

Alan

Nice website sales letter:

www.copywriter-ac.com

Love your fishing pics.

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sethczerepak

7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

A few years back the Warrior Forum was a hotbed
of "copywriting guru" activity.

But most seem to have left.

Why do you think this is?

Because we'd rather make money than swat mosquitoes.

And by "swat mosquitoes," I mean constantly correcting, educating and stamping out the massive misinformation campaigns of people who come on here acting like they're copywriters when they're not.

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1Bryan

7 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

A few years back the Warrior Forum was a hotbed
of "copywriting guru" activity

All I remember is folks who sold copywriting "how to" information and folks who swore they were A-list, but had threads where you could book 'em for like $ 500 a letter.

I don't know many working copywriters who actually ever frequented this forum.

P.S. I was a member in the good ol' days too.

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Copydog

7 years ago

Yes, I read this the other day (am on Bob's email list).

Thanks

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John Lloyd

7 years ago

Last I heard, Mal "The Copy Nazi" had thrown away his pen, and was shagging up with ladyboys in Pattaya.

I kid, I kid...

But in all seriousness, I think the hype surrounding copywriting has died down a bit. It HAS become commoditized no matter how many are still in denial over that. I've had more than a few well-known copywriters tell me that things were rough for them..

Thanks
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Copydog 7 years ago

Originally Posted by John Lloyd

I've had more
than a few well-known copywriters tell me that
things were rough for them.

I too have heard this.

Probably why so many of them now seem to focus on
selling courses on copywriting rather than working for
clients.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
- Thanks
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windowstoweb

7 years ago

I think all are facing copyright issues.

Thanks

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ThePromotionalGuy

7 years ago

From my own personal observation and reading all the books dating back to the late 1800's on marketing, advertising and copy writing - copy-writing - copywriting, there's been a progression.

Like any skilled craft, there is the pilgrim stage, settler stage, war story stage and now the spin stage.

As for Gurus. Honestly. There have never been any. Only men and women with their spin on writing they've gleaned from past writers...i.e. Collier, Bedell, Caples, Schwartz & etc...

As for where have all the Gurus gone. They are still in your libraries, or Goodwill book stores.

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