To All The Ugly People (II)...

by max5ty
39 replies
I'm gonna do this post again because eventually it will sink in and most will understand the money that can be made...

...as you can see, I'm not selling anything and never have or never will on this forum.

Here's the deal: If you're a copywriter, you can write anything you want and it will sell.

You can go from where you are right now to how ever much money you want to make.

I've done it and so can you.

First off...I don't go by all the rules on headlines...I write them to get attention. I'll write whatever and grab you by the throat and then hurry up and get to the point.

Most might click away...but it only takes the few percents to make you rich.

To All The Ugly People got your attention right? I've used it in Facebook ads and it worked great.

I've also used "To All The Fat People". It worked good to.

Screw all the old school farts that tell you how you need to write an ad. Write your ad to get attention.

Now...here comes the BS.

I'm quite sure someone will post that my headlines are misleading. Oh well. They make money and always will. The naysayers can go broke with all their rules and regulations while I get wealthy.

So now that we're past the "I don't give a shit what people think" phase...let's move on to what you need to do.

Get a product...

...there's sites I use like alibaba.com and others that I've done posts about.

Thing is, you want a site that drop ships your products.

All You need to do is write the sales letter or landing page...which you can get free here for a trial. www.clickfunnels.com. And no, I'm not an affiliate which you can tell by the site address.

I've done posts on other sites but for some reason I can't go back and pull up the site. Don't know if it's a problem with the forum or not. Anyways, if you can look back you'll see some of the sites I've posted.

Just do it (Nike).

You have to get started and it doesn't take getting a client to make money.

You can be your own client.

I get frustrated when I read this forum sometimes because there's guys/gals wanting everyone to proofread a letter they did for a JV product or some other something or other for someone else. You're a copywriter...get busy making money on your own thing.

Find a product (look back at my posts on how to find them), do a Facebook page or ad and get going!!!

Sounds simple right?

It is simple if you're a copywriter.

Best wishes
#people #ugly
  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


    To All The Ugly People got your attention right? I've used it in Facebook ads and it worked great.

    I've also used "To All The Fat People". It worked good to.

    Facebook rules
    ..." Cannot imply a user’s personal characteristics (race or ethnic origin, religion or philosophical belief, age, sexual orientation or sexual life, gender identity, disability or physical/mental health, financial status or information, membership in a trade union, criminal record, name)".

    If you got passed their approval, it won't last long because Facebook users will complain
    which send your ad costs way up and if the complaints get so bad,
    your account will get shut down and banned.

    Even if you turn it off and don't run it again, your account still can get banned by having it
    sitting there.

    Not a long term viable strategy.

    Best,
    Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post


      Facebook rules
      ..." Cannot imply a user's personal characteristics (race or ethnic origin, religion or philosophical belief, age, sexual orientation or sexual life, gender identity, disability or physical/mental health, financial status or information, membership in a trade union, criminal record, name)".
      So the great global butthurt is taking over Facebook.
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  • Ha!

    Thing about the queuea fat 'n ugly people is, it has got fewer people in it per mile than its skinnier cousin — even if no one strangles the person next to 'em, mistakin' 'em for a monster.

    I guess by gowin' with your strategy, you are offerin' to lower a bucket down deep into the wella salacious voyeuro while simultaneously exaltin' those who choose to guzzle from it, like they got access to sum angelic semen fountain.

    Thing is, I am notta big fanna deployin' the fat an' the ugly in spitea my excesses.

    I take your point about attention grabbin', but I would wanna be positive an' smart with my grabliturea danglies.

    Tellya, we gotta nail the STOOPID types.

    Cos we are all so that sumtimes, an' we always got freedom to become less so — however frickin' stoopid we remain.

    The beautya a coupla fat people tryin' to strangle one another is how they would prolly end up feelin' kinda sympathetic to their mutual dilemma.

    Worst case scenario: another noo superhero duo, an' decent swimwear absent from stores till 2034.

    Or mebbe they would jus' diea exhaustion tryin' to wrap their biddy fingers round one another's tree trunk necks.

    Thing is, I do not see any kinda fat person civil war any time soon.

    An' my argument here rests on how pure bulbousness an' notionsa ugliness are mutually exclusive — unless onea the participants, as they struggle to wrap their biddy fingers round the other's tree trunk neck, cries, "why in hell can't I wrap my biddy fingers round your tree trunk neck, you frickin' ugly sob?"

    But, I guess, yeah — headlines = lifts up outta snoozeville.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author JohnBarron
    Gary Halbert once put out a full page weight loss ad.

    The headline?

    "Attention All Porkers"

    Didn't get one sale.

    Between this and Ewen's post, one can draw their own conclusions about the OP's coaching.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by JohnBarron View Post

      Gary Halbert once put out a full page weight loss ad.

      The headline?

      "Attention All Porkers"

      Didn't get one sale.

      Between this and Ewen's post, one can draw their own conclusions about the OP's coaching.
      Pretty sure he never ran a full page ad, but Bond or Kevin might know. It was one of his early attempts, ran on WAKR and was repeated on many stations, not as an ad, but for the laughs.

      Right about ZERO sales, though.

      GordonJ
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  • The way most respond to an "issue" is when you indicate it's "not all their fault."

    People can be overweight because they stuff themselves with pizza's and burgers but they probably won't appreciate being told that.

    So you find ways where they don't have to take all the blame.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      The way most respond to an "issue" is when you indicate it's "not all their fault."

      People can be overweight because they stuff themselves with pizza's and burgers but they probably won't appreciate being told that.

      So you find ways where they don't have to take all the blame.


      Steve
      Here is a video I made for a client that was marketed to overweight and obese individuals and it definitely took the path of "It's not your fault"


      Best regards,

      Ozi
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Thanks for all the replies. I love a good discussion.

      I posted this then went on a fishing trip for a few days so sorry for the late replies.

      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post


      Facebook rules
      ..." Cannot imply a user’s personal characteristics (race or ethnic origin, religion or philosophical belief, age, sexual orientation or sexual life, gender identity, disability or physical/mental health, financial status or information, membership in a trade union, criminal record, name)".

      If you got passed their approval, it won't last long because Facebook users will complain
      which send your ad costs way up and if the complaints get so bad,
      your account will get shut down and banned.

      Even if you turn it off and don't run it again, your account still can get banned by having it
      sitting there.

      Not a long term viable strategy.

      Best,
      Ewen
      You can start virtually any Fanbook page and boost it...which in turn of course can sell products.

      Originally Posted by JohnBarron View Post

      Gary Halbert once put out a full page weight loss ad.

      The headline?

      "Attention All Porkers"

      Didn't get one sale.

      Between this and Ewen's post, one can draw their own conclusions about the OP's coaching.
      What's your point? Most every control in the past has been beaten more than once. Yes, I like Halbert, but he's not the only one that has been broke more times than he's had money. Test, test, test. Just because something didn't work for your cousin Joe Bob doesn't mean with the right marketing and some tweaking it won't work for you.

      Hopefully you've got enough experience not to draw your own conclusions on everything that's happened in the past.

      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      The way most respond to an "issue" is when you indicate it's "not all their fault."

      People can be overweight because they stuff themselves with pizza's and burgers but they probably won't appreciate being told that.

      So you find ways where they don't have to take all the blame.


      Steve
      Yes, that's a good concept to follow.

      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      Terrible advice.

      Other professionals... doctors, lawyers, engineers... don't "just do it". They get an education first.

      Why wouldn't a marketer learn the best ways to write Facebook ads before actually running them? Many a well-intentioned, new marketer has gone broke running ads by "just doing it".

      Alex
      Do you have any formal education in the field or does your education come from buying courses and reading books? I have a degree in marketing.

      _____________________

      And yes, this woman got a discussion going last year and boosted her popularity by talking about fat people...would you have wanted to advertise on the video? It made her money and others jumped in to get their cut.

      Not saying it's good or bad...I'll let you decide.

      https://www.facebook.com/NicoleArbou...4221907732907/

      _______________________

      A copywriter should be a good marketer.

      A good marketer/copywriter knows how to not only boost someone's career but also knows how to sell products.

      Good copywriters are behind a lot of the publicity that happens...sometimes it can even be a well orchestrated bad publicity campaign to bring a crap load of attention to something.

      If you do nothing else today, please learn that copywriting is not just about writing a sales letter. There are good copywriters out there that are brilliant and they're not all sitting around writing a letter or worrying about the proper headline format or what color the buy button should be.

      Expand your creativity and your understanding of copywriting.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


        Do you have any formal education in the field or does your education come from buying courses and reading books? I have a degree in marketing.
        So you have a formal education in marketing... but you counsel others to "just do it".

        Makes sense... NOT.

        Alex
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        • Profile picture of the author max5ty
          Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

          So you have a formal education in marketing... but you counsel others to "just do it".

          Makes sense... NOT.

          Alex
          Appears as though you're a little confused.

          I was mentioning some posts in the past I did and recommended people go back and read them. I said "just do it". I have no idea why you're confused.

          After looking back for some of my past posts I see that with the new system they only go back so far now.

          I'm guessing you've been a copywriter for about 5 years? I've been doing this for over 30 years now and have worked with some of the biggest companies in the world.

          I know you were around when I first joined the forum because I recall you commenting on some of my posts.

          I see you're now coaching people. I have no problem with that, but it does seem you have an issue with anyone that has become successful.

          Alex, if you'd like you can P.M. me and we can stack our successes up and see if all the advice I give is BS compared with some of your ideas on the way I do things...and how your ideas have worked for you.

          I appreciate your feedback.

          @JohnBarron: Thanks for your feedback.

          I'm gonna do a little something and start another Fanbook page just as a little experiment to prove a point.

          Been busy the last couple days (as usual) but will do it in the next couple days. I will share all the results with the forum...good or bad.

          I enjoy your feedback.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnBarron
        Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

        What's your point? Most every control in the past has been beaten more than once. Yes, I like Halbert, but he's not the only one that has been broke more times than he's had money. Test, test, test. Just because something didn't work for your cousin Joe Bob doesn't mean with the right marketing and some tweaking it won't work for you.

        Hopefully you've got enough experience not to draw your own conclusions on everything that's happened in the past.
        I appreciate you sharing your knowledge generously.

        That said, anyone who quotes "test, test, test" without understanding the advertising platform they're testing on is at serious risk of getting suspended/banned from same.

        Max5ty, with respect: by your coaching above, it clearly shows you are not experienced in FB advertising.

        If you think boosting a post is simple and harmless, think again. Depending on the post content and images, you can get banned.

        Let me just say from experience, there are certain markets Facebook absolutely *hates*. Weight loss is one.

        Saying or showing anything even slightly questionable and you'll see.

        The rest of your strategic coaching is sound and I'm appreciative.
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  • Profile picture of the author silveroaks
    if you start off by telling people that this obesity is not your fault but there is much you can do for it then they will be attracted more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    Just do it (Nike).
    Terrible advice.

    Other professionals... doctors, lawyers, engineers... don't "just do it". They get an education first.

    Why wouldn't a marketer learn the best ways to write Facebook ads before actually running them? Many a well-intentioned, new marketer has gone broke running ads by "just doing it".

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      Terrible advice.

      Other professionals... doctors, lawyers, engineers... don't "just do it". They get an education first.

      Why wouldn't a marketer learn the best ways to write Facebook ads before actually running them? Many a well-intentioned, new marketer has gone broke running ads by "just doing it".

      Alex
      Bad analogy.

      Other professionals... doctors, lawyers, engineers... MUST go through years of intensive education if they wish to pursue this career path.

      Aspiring copywriters could literally read a single good book on the subject in a single day, and then write. Which may in fact be the best way to pursue this career path.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by perryny View Post

        Bad analogy.

        Other professionals... doctors, lawyers, engineers... MUST go through years of intensive education if they wish to pursue this career path.

        Aspiring copywriters could literally read a single good book on the subject in a single day, and then write. Which may in fact be the best way to pursue this career path.
        Analogies by their very nature are flawed.

        The point stands... a marketer should educate himself before running Facebook ads.

        (I won't comment on the absurdity of starting a copywriting career by reading a single book. Oops, I just did.)

        Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    To All The Ugly People (II)...
    Movie: Liar Liar
    • Kid: My teacher says beauty is on the inside.
    • Jim Carrey: That's just something ugly people say.
    Signature
    Hi
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Movie: Liar Liar
      • Kid: My teacher says beauty is on the inside.
      • Adam Sandler: That's just something ugly people say.
      Liar! It's Jim Carrey not Adam Sandler.

      Mark
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  • Hellor Max5ty,

    "Don't" "Shouldn't" "Can't"

    "But what if I do?...Hhhmmm"

    Breakthrough

    Chincilla

    PS. Don't, shouldn't, and can't repels breakthrough
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  • I guess the "just do it" angle forces us onto our bestest ever front foot as we haul our body weight against gravity in order to move, out over toes without a wobble, an' spin on immediacy's pirouette with whatever we got.

    The cusp between knowledge an' ignorance is never uncatalytic in its potential for change jus' as long as you are kinda happy to be ever less stoopid day by day.

    I am workin' on that last part.

    .
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      Still trolling... after al these years....
      Still trolling... after all these years...

      There, I fixed that for you.

      Always good to try and use proper spelling, especially when you're a copywriter wanting readers to click on the link in your signature.

      It's ok though, I mess up sometimes too.

      Best wishes.

      @alexcohen:

      You said: "So your efforts to marginalize others by claiming how much you've sold are a waste of effort."

      Only you can allow yourself to feel marginalized. If someone being successful makes you feel marginalized then I would recommend you follow the slogan "Try Harder". The whole slogan is "We Try Harder" but I'll rework it for you. Avis quit using the slogan around 2012.

      They had some pretty good ads that highlighted their old slogan (you might like them):

      http://swiped.co/file/we-try-harder-ad-from-avis/

      I believe their new slogan is "It's your space".

      Thanks for the feedback.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    To be fair, I read one single book and then launched a career.

    It was The Well-Fed Writer by Peter Bowerman.

    Since launching my career I've continued to read and iterate and grow.

    But first it was the one. Then the doing.
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    "Max": You don't know my motives, so stop pretending that you do.

    "Max" and "Bryan": Let's continue with the sports metaphors. For the most part, successful major league managers were not the best players on the field in their day. So your efforts to marginalize others by claiming how much you've sold are a waste of effort.

    If you want me to continue this conversation, please put your pictures and real names in your profiles.

    Alex
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  • We have a dilemma…

    Read nothing, dive into the arena and hope you don't get mauled to death by the lions.

    Read everything and suffer acute information overload spend all day and night reasoning with the lions not to kill you - every chance they will - because they would rather eat you than be bored to death.

    Read something good - tread carefully in the arena and dodge the lions. If you do you may have a "natural" gift.

    If you need to increase your adeptness read a little more…and apply it…

    If this lets you avoid the lions fair enough.

    If not slowly but surely keep pursuing your skills and knowledge.

    And the lions say, "You're cool, you really do know what you're doing and we like you - there's plenty of others who do nothing but piss us off so we'll eat them."


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    That's funny. We were talking about ways to learn copywriting and suddenly the discussion turned to what clients want to talk about.

    Apples and oranges.

    And as I said, most major league managers were not top players. Most... not all.

    Anonymity is a wonderful thing.

    Last call for real names and faces!

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

        Follow your own logic train. You said it was absurd that someone could read one book and start a copywriting career.

        Knowing what clients want ...

        Is kind of a big deal.

        And please learn what an apples to oranges comparison really is.

        You trying to compare yourself to sports coaches?

        Is a classic apples to oranges.
        I'll be happy to continue the discussion... once I know who I'm talking to.

        Alex
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        • Profile picture of the author max5ty
          Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

          I'll be happy to continue the discussion... once I know who I'm talking to.

          Alex
          Hmmm, you didn't mind starting the conversation without knowing who you were talking to.

          @1Bryan: "It's not in how much you "know" as much as it is how much you can sell."

          I believe that completely. Thanks for your inspiring posts.

          Thanks for all the feedback. We don't always agree on everything but I believe it's ok to have a debate about things we disagree on.

          I've discovered a lot just by hearing opposing views on this forum.

          Have a good weekend.

          Hopefully you all make a lot of money or start putting a plan in place to make a lot of money next week.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnBarron
    Can we please get back to what matters?

    People become copywriters in different ways. What works for one may not work for another.

    That's just reality.
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  • Yes chaps I know sfa about baseball.

    It's not exactly big here in Blighty.

    As you are both ace writers - could you get back to it.


    Steve
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  • What's weird is how 'apples an' oranges' is uncannily similar to 'chalk an' cheese'.

    An' 'peas an' carrots'.

    How does the Cosmos manage such miracles?
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

      Man, this is some top quality dick slinging. I give it 3.5 stars:

      I refrain and recuse myself from any such contests, it is an unfair advantage.

      GordonJ

      PS. Sure, it was upstate MN, in a state park, 100 yards from a small cabin, where a little bridge crossed over a small stream bubbling up from the ground like Jed Clampett's crude, but, still, the sign said, The Mississippi River Begins Here. Proof enough for me. End of slinging days. I give it 3.5 inches
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  • Isn't this a false dichotomy?

    It's not "read one book than dive in and learn by doing" vs. "get years of formal training."

    Don't most copywriters have a mix of formal training & study AND "learn-by-doing" experience?

    Don't pro football players practice on the field AND study countless hours of tape?

    Personally, I studied writing formally for 7 years, read 30+ books on writing, and have attended all sorts of conferences and workshops. I started into copywriting specifically with a short gig as a writer for a conversion optimization agency, then went freelance.

    I maybe dove into it too quickly, and had to learn by getting my hands dirty. But I still studied and practiced even when I wasn't "doing." Four years later, comfortably earning six figures, I still set aside time every week to study the competition in my niche, and study books/courses/swipes/etc. from the "masters."

    My ability to write million dollar sales letters comes from formal study AND learning-by-doing. I imagine most successful copywriters (or most pros in any field) will say the same.
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  • "It's not in how much you "know" as much as it is how much you can sell."

    Yes, how much you sell determines your success. But how much you know (partly) determines how much you sell.

    An example:

    Chris Haddad is pretty much a god among copywriters. He can sell a million copies of any dating, PUA, or relationship product.

    Last year, he wrote a natural health vsl.

    It bombed.

    Why? It neglected scientific credibility, and exclusively focused on social credibility. Lots of testimonials, not enough proof or authority about how the product works.

    Social credibility can carry a dating product. But not a health product.

    No one's going to argue that Chris Haddad can't sell.

    But in this case, he lacked the knowledge. He didn't know enough about past failures and successes in the natural health market. If he'd spent more time studying the natural health niche, he'd have known he needed a clearer, more credible mechanism, a more trustworthy authority, and a better hook than a dramatic story to stand out in an increasingly crowded market.

    (That's all IMO as a very successful natural health copywriter. Obviously there's a million factors that contribute to the success of an offer.)

    For beginning copywriters, there's a million established rules that work. (Yes, we break them all the time. But more often than not, they work.)

    Again, it's all about your ability to sell.

    But you create and improve that ability to sell through practice AND study.

    Remember, kids. Knowing is half the battle!
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    • Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      Tellya, over at the Ugly People Forum, they are tearin' the f*ck outta alla us right now...
      I'm not allowed over there.
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      • Originally Posted by Benjamin Farthing View Post

        I'm not allowed over there.
        Hey -- ur not even hallowed over there.
        Signature

        Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • So I guess I was misunderstanding the argument.

    I'd say reading one book and then launching a career won't work for 99% of newbies. There's simply too many skills to master.

    On the other hand, the idea to launch your own product and then tweak & test until it's successful is a fantastic way to learn. But that's what it is. Learning.

    If I had it to do again, I'd start by launching my own products, and then tweak & test based on what's working for my competitors and what's in my swipe file (so - you know - studying).

    The fastest way to success in any field is practice AND study.
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  • Profile picture of the author HandsomeGenius
    I'm all for getting attention with a provocative headline.

    But there's gotta be more to it than that.

    If that's all you reduce it to, you'd title your next piece "I hate blacks and jews".
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  • Profile picture of the author dre1507
    To much reading, and not enough doing just makes you a great reader. That's what i believe the "Just do it" notion in the original post is getting at.

    The are people who want to make money online that are more obsessed with buying coaching/training than actually going out and trying make money.
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