Would you write for 10 hours a week for 6,950.00 a month?

15 replies
A- Could you live on only 7,000 bux a month?

B- What does that kind of a "contract" look like?

I don't make it a secret, my disdain for so-called copywriters who can't even capitalize the I, and offer up i instead. Please starve to death.

I have no sympathy for most of the ones who come here and ask other people to do the work they were PAID to do, because they passed themselves off as a copywriter, who knew what they were doing.

But for real people, the students who write, I want to encourage you to look for different strategies, like long term contracts, retainers and higher commissions on your work.

I find it laughable (sad, but still insultingly laughable) when someone who hates writing believes there is no work to be found, please apply at McDonald's ASAP, or Walmart.

There are tons of companies, people, Entrepreneurs who will pay your fee,
who will give you long term contracts
who will offer you a higher commission

and they go begging for people, I know, because I routinely turn them down.

My last writing contract ran for 9 months. I gave them 10 hours a week. I was paid the 6,950 bux a month, plus I had a vested interest in the results of the promotion.

I was one of a half dozen people under similar contracts with this ONE marketing company.

Copywriting as a Biz-Op is a very poor choice of making money opportunities.

Copywriting as a profession, or as part of a marketing education, is not only valuable, it can be as lucrative as you want it to be.

But here is what I wonder...

How many of you have even had a contract? Do you know how to structure it, what to look for, clauses you MUST remove to protect your assets?

Judging from the threads here, most don't even execute a formal, written agreement.

The reason most of you can't make a living at this thing is simple...you're not qualified to do so.

You know nothing about selling, and show no desire to learn it.
You have no real life business experience, and want to do everything online, and then, you swim in shark infested PONDS,

...little swamps full of gators and pythons,

when there is a great big ocean of opportunity out there, and a world where you don't have to be a Columbus, the map has been clearly laid out for you to follow.

And there is the problem. You want to dive in, set sail, get to the top by helicopter (and they can't fly that high) and all this month.

Secrets? Only one: want it and work for it.

Learn from the Olympics. Cheaters stay home, winners have earned their medals.

Quit cheating YOURSELF and your potential and either study and learn, or get the hell out of the game.

GordonJ

PS. Can you even conceive of an ongoing agreement for your writing services?
#hours #month #week #write
  • Profile picture of the author dkbiz92
    Where would one look for opportunities in copywriting?
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by dkbiz92 View Post

      Where would one look for opportunities in copywriting?
      The top tier...Agora types. Publishers of multiple financial newsletters.

      Review the copy from Stansberry, Weiss, etc.

      Don't or can't do. Try supplements. Search for the 100 largest direct response companies, search for infomercials, many of those running DRTV also do mail and IM.

      Look at a bunch of swipe files, find a prodct or service you think you can or want to write on.

      Google. Try finding products at clickbank, see what is selling.

      If interested in product or agency type writing, look for those companies offering catalogs, etc.

      The problem, there is too much to choose from, find a type of copywriting, or a product you feel you can write on, and give it a try. Even do spec work, to get established, but not for some piker IMer who is selling magic widgets...write on spec for a real company.

      They won't steal your copy (for the most part), but if you can produce results, then you can find a steady paycheck. Or course you need to know what "results" means.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        IF you can produce.

        Disclaimer. I have no relationship to any of these guys, just showing as sample copy which is CURRENT, may be tests or controls, but ask yourself:

        "Would I want to write something like this?"

        80% Stock Market Crash To Strike in 2016, Economist Warns - The Sovereign Investor

        http://pro.strategicinvestment.com/N...DPS510/?h=true

        Wealthy Retirement - Forever Dividend Stocks

        Expert Says:

        There are tons of sample copy, current and past (called a swipe file).

        I've got hundreds of
        Agora ads, scores of Green Tree Press, Thousands of Suarez and Arthur Middleton, hundreds of Halbert, Carlton, Bencivenga...and yet, I'm a piker when it comes to swipe files.

        Use one of your browsers, the one which is not your default. Click on the Facebook ads that come up on your facebook page. Do a few product searches, and soon, you will be followed around the Internet by these guys until you clear your cookies. This gives you CURRENT state of the art creatives, from the big boys...

        the ones who pay well, and are ALWAYS looking for writing talent which can sell their products.

        https://www.fetcharate.com/pa/mortga...8fd2d2a2e4.jpg

        This one follows me around because I'm in OHIO. Read it, and see if it goes with you, wherever you are.

        Again, this is a very small sample of current ads, and IF they are working, are probably giving a copywriter the gravy for his project. This is top tier.

        Warriors looking for 30 dollar copy writers, NOT top tier.

        GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          SHHHH, don't tell.

          The secret?...................Google.

          I mentioned Agora. Type in Agora hit the link that comes up. On home page, scroll to bottom, hit the link to the Career Ops. On the next page is a link to current job listings. They need a Junior Copywriter in Delray Beach, FL.

          Read the description of what they are looking for. Now you know what is expected of a Junior Copywriter with a top tier company...a Freelancer, 99 out of 100 times, better have some proof, a track record, or as they put it...

          • If you are able to come up with "big ideas" that will get prospective buyers attention
          And they even have an application on site. Agora just one of scores of companies seeking Copywriters. Freelancers who can deliver the big idea to get prospects attention will find an ear at most all of them.


          BUT...2 things.



          ONE. Asking me this in an email or PM when 10 seconds of YOUR time and effort could have found this...


          TWO. My Rolodex is my most priceless possession and can't be replaced, 50 years of business contacts. I would NEVER refer a wannabee beginner to any one in that thing, who demonstrates laziness, lack of effort, lack of desire...


          there have been Warriors who wanted it badly enough, they've moved to Baltimore, Del Ray, Canton, etc., etc.



          IF you can't move, and you want only FREELANCE work, then you better build your portfolio, OR come up with your big idea...


          BEFORE you seek top tier companies to hook up with.



          See? This goes to my point. IF I were seeking jobs, I'd know every player in all the tiers, from the multi-million dollar companies, down to the little shops which are still selling via copy with print, TV, Radio, Postcard, Magazines and, OF COURSE, online.



          YOU? (the general you, ones which ask for help finding jobs) can't even use Google.



          Good luck with that.


          GordonJ
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  • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    A- Could you live on only 7,000 bux a month?

    B- What does that kind of a "contract" look like?

    I don't make it a secret, my disdain for so-called copywriters who can't even capitalize the I, and offer up i instead. Please starve to death.

    I have no sympathy for most of the ones who come here and ask other people to do the work they were PAID to do, because they passed themselves off as a copywriter, who knew what they were doing.

    But for real people, the students who write, I want to encourage you to look for different strategies, like long term contracts, retainers and higher commissions on your work.

    I find it laughable (sad, but still insultingly laughable) when someone who hates writing believes there is no work to be found, please apply at McDonald's ASAP, or Walmart.

    There are tons of companies, people, Entrepreneurs who will pay your fee,
    who will give you long term contracts
    who will offer you a higher commission

    and they go begging for people, I know, because I routinely turn them down.

    My last writing contract ran for 9 months. I gave them 10 hours a week. I was paid the 6,950 bux a month, plus I had a vested interest in the results of the promotion.

    I was one of a half dozen people under similar contracts with this ONE marketing company.

    Copywriting as a Biz-Op is a very poor choice of making money opportunities.

    Copywriting as a profession, or as part of a marketing education, is not only valuable, it can be as lucrative as you want it to be.

    But here is what I wonder...

    How many of you have even had a contract? Do you know how to structure it, what to look for, clauses you MUST remove to protect your assets?

    Judging from the threads here, most don't even execute a formal, written agreement.

    The reason most of you can't make a living at this thing is simple...you're not qualified to do so.

    You know nothing about selling, and show no desire to learn it.
    You have no real life business experience, and want to do everything online, and then, you swim in shark infested PONDS,

    ...little swamps full of gators and pythons,

    when there is a great big ocean of opportunity out there, and a world where you don't have to be a Columbus, the map has been clearly laid out for you to follow.

    And there is the problem. You want to dive in, set sail, get to the top by helicopter (and they can't fly that high) and all this month.

    Secrets? Only one: want it and work for it.

    Learn from the Olympics. Cheaters stay home, winners have earned their medals.

    Quit cheating YOURSELF and your potential and either study and learn, or get the hell out of the game.

    GordonJ

    PS. Can you even conceive of an ongoing agreement for your writing services?
    Thing is, when they got done shootin' Findin' Nemo, Disney found 'emselves with a zillion would-be Jacques, all lookin' kinda despondent out back in the parkin' lot.

    So they laid on a swim pool, said, "hey, go splash amok."

    Dippin' their shrimpo wimpo parts into the water, the Jacquelikes tested the pool's perimeter.

    "Ain't it amazing?" said one, "how we were all, almost actually, kinda like ... Jacques?"

    "Yeah," cheered the resta 'em. "Awesome!"

    That's when the Death Star, blasted deftly from its delusional stasis, dropped into the water.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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    • Profile picture of the author ShariLeee
      I have ears to hear what you are saying! I'm currently writing for a blogging company who caters to corporate websites. I write breaking news tech articles and risk insurance articles on topics that are relevant. They sell just about everything I write. They only time they have not sold my stuff is when someone else beat me to the topic or once it was too long (2k words), and I knew it, but I thought
      it was good enough for them to take it--guess again... I am intrigued by the marketing and earnings on which you expounded. I would love to know more. ShariLee, TechHatCopywriter, Better Marketer wanna-be!
      Signature
      ShariLee Beynon, TecHatCopywriter
      http://bloggingmywayforward.com
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by ShariLeee View Post

        I have ears to hear what you are saying! I'm currently writing for a blogging company who caters to corporate websites. I write breaking news tech articles and risk insurance articles on topics that are relevant. They sell just about everything I write. They only time they have not sold my stuff is when someone else beat me to the topic or once it was too long (2k words), and I knew it, but I thought
        it was good enough for them to take it--guess again... I am intrigued by the marketing and earnings on which you expounded. I would love to know more. ShariLee, TechHatCopywriter, Better Marketer wanna-be!
        For what it is worth. Probably not a good idea to have a shell of a blog for people to look at. I visited your site, to get to know you better and all the links I hit on, the archives, news, reviews...had nothing posted. The second blog post was about Christmas 2015, like a century ago in blog time.

        Just friendly advice, I would get it completed with all links working and then share it.

        In your line of work, in today's market, it will be difficult to find a longer term contract because there are so many tech writers, and very good and cheap ones. Your best bet might be to call upon some of the companies who have bought your articles and seek a retainer.

        As a freelancer in the world of tech writing, you're up against an establishment of writers who have names in the business.

        I am not of the tech world writers, have hired a few, but my OP was targeted to the COPY WRITER, someone who can write either compelling sales copy, or item/product descriptions or articles which advance the sale of given item.

        Before I could offer any further suggestion, I'd have to know if I could, and in this case, I'm just not up on tech writing.

        GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Copywriting as a Biz-Op is a very poor choice of making money opportunities.

    Copywriting as a profession, or as part of a marketing education, is not only valuable, it can be as lucrative as you want it to be.
    Interesting thread.

    I'm interested in your definition of copywriting as a biz op and why you think it's a poor choice.

    I'm doing a pivot/addition in one area of what I do and this may relate.

    Thanks,
    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Interesting thread.

      I'm interested in your definition of copywriting as a biz op and why you think it's a poor choice.

      I'm doing a pivot/addition in one area of what I do and this may relate.

      Thanks,
      Mark
      ..or the dolphin under the sea workshop? Not sure, but I credit Sir Gary Halbert with making it an official Biz-Op, when he figured out he could make a ton of moolah holding seminars, and getting fans hooked on his work and it was easier than working with clients.

      Now, there were many "marketing" and mail order type courses back then too, but Gary was the first to break out writing COPY as a separate part of mail order marketing, and focus on teaching it.

      It didn't take long to notice the crowds were willing to PAY a ton of money for this inside information and the early 90s saw everyone and his ex, putting out seminars probably (in my opinion) culminating with the breakthrough ad from Jay Abraham for his apprentice program.

      This 12 pg (as I recall) insert in Entrepreneur was one of the most brilliant ads ever, and helped Jay become the "preeminent" guru of Marketing Biz-Op.

      When I visited AWAI in Del Ray a few years back, I saw the future, and today...and this is just my opinion, the future is here.

      There are too many courses being sold to wannabee writers, who may be able to string a few words together in a coherent manner...on becoming a COPYWRITER BECAUSE...

      IT IS EASY. Quick, make a 6 figure income in your first year, once you know the formulas, have the templates, take our advanced, inner circle, secrets of the Masters type courses.

      And here we are.

      Thousands of writers, who want to read a book, ONE book, as in the threads you see here...they want to take one course, they want to start selling their services as a copywriter BECAUSE,

      of low hanging fruit like FL and this, WF, where a guy can proclaim himself a copywriter, get hundreds of warriors to pay him for his copy, and is impervious to complaints because it is not in the best interest of the FL business model.

      This sort of thing.

      I'm not bemoaning the old ways, where people actually studied writing copy as a craft and/or even an art form and regarded the Garys of the world as the Picassos. Because their results proved them to be masters.

      For 25 years as a golf professional, I told my students they couldn't buy a lower score. They had to work for it.

      I quit the game when it became a BUY THIS, do as the one legged guy does, and you'll have a lower score. and the market bought the hype. Exit stage left.

      In Copywriting it is now the same thing. BUY your way into the copywriting game and hang out your shingle.

      It is amazing to see copywriters fishing for customers, struggling to find clients, wanting to know how to market themselves when the best in the world, the guys at the top...didn't really bother with trying to hook customers...

      they wrote promotions
      and
      they got

      RESULTS. They studied, looked at the best, found their own voices, created their own space in this world...and the savvy ones saw the bon bon eaters in the audience, and said, why not? If I don't take their money, they'll just give it to someone else...and VIOLA, you have CopyWriting as a Biz-Op.

      Good for them.
      Good for all the gurus.

      Bad for the craft, art and skill of copywriters.

      GordonJ

      PS. Oh yea, I also find it offensive to the skill and craft when some "copywriter" with a CLIENT, WHO has paid him for his expertise, has to come to the WF to find out how to do it, or even worse, let us do it for him. These guys are the Biz-Op types in it for a buck, and don't know what they are doing.

      (On the other hand, this WF, and most of IM, was built on a foundation of Fake It til You Make It, so it really isn't a shocking thing).
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennie Heckel
    Hi All,

    I guess this thread was good for me to read too...

    Copywriters that make money are so busy they are sometimes guilty of letting their websites go to "seed"...

    It only makes common sense to give your website a few new posts and a few new pages every once in a while.

    I mark it on my calendar to remember to add new client info, and new screen shots of completed product launches at the end of a month to ensure I post new content to keep Google happy.

    Remember your website/blog is not only a reflection of your business but also how professional you are...
    so the more pro-looking your website the easier it is to impress new clients who are looking to hire you.

    Jennie Heckel
    Signature
    ******* WSO & JV ZOO COPYWRITER -- VLS & SALES LETTERS PROVEN TO CONVERT ******* Get Higher Profits From Launches That SELL! Proven Copywriter with 17 Years of Copywriting Experience. Contact Me Via Skype: seoexpertconsulting Copywriting Website: http://www.VideoScriptCopywriter.com

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    • Profile picture of the author HandsomeGenius
      Originally Posted by Jennie Heckel View Post

      Copywriters that make money are so busy they are sometimes guilty of letting their websites go to "seed"...
      It's the one client whose deadline is always flexible.
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  • Profile picture of the author james flynn
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    A- Could you live on only 7,000 bux a month?

    B- What does that kind of a "contract" look like?

    I don't make it a secret, my disdain for so-called copywriters who can't even capitalize the I, and offer up i instead. Please starve to death.

    I have no sympathy for most of the ones who come here and ask other people to do the work they were PAID to do, because they passed themselves off as a copywriter, who knew what they were doing.

    But for real people, the students who write, I want to encourage you to look for different strategies, like long term contracts, retainers and higher commissions on your work.

    I find it laughable (sad, but still insultingly laughable) when someone who hates writing believes there is no work to be found, please apply at McDonald's ASAP, or Walmart.

    There are tons of companies, people, Entrepreneurs who will pay your fee,
    who will give you long term contracts
    who will offer you a higher commission

    and they go begging for people, I know, because I routinely turn them down.

    My last writing contract ran for 9 months. I gave them 10 hours a week. I was paid the 6,950 bux a month, plus I had a vested interest in the results of the promotion.

    I was one of a half dozen people under similar contracts with this ONE marketing company.

    Copywriting as a Biz-Op is a very poor choice of making money opportunities.

    Copywriting as a profession, or as part of a marketing education, is not only valuable, it can be as lucrative as you want it to be.

    But here is what I wonder...

    How many of you have even had a contract? Do you know how to structure it, what to look for, clauses you MUST remove to protect your assets?

    Judging from the threads here, most don't even execute a formal, written agreement.

    The reason most of you can't make a living at this thing is simple...you're not qualified to do so.

    You know nothing about selling, and show no desire to learn it.
    You have no real life business experience, and want to do everything online, and then, you swim in shark infested PONDS,

    ...little swamps full of gators and pythons,

    when there is a great big ocean of opportunity out there, and a world where you don't have to be a Columbus, the map has been clearly laid out for you to follow.

    And there is the problem. You want to dive in, set sail, get to the top by helicopter (and they can't fly that high) and all this month.

    Secrets? Only one: want it and work for it.

    Learn from the Olympics. Cheaters stay home, winners have earned their medals.

    Quit cheating YOURSELF and your potential and either study and learn, or get the hell out of the game.

    GordonJ

    PS. Can you even conceive of an ongoing agreement for your writing services?
    Well Gordon thanks for this eye opening thread. Copywriting is definitely not for everyone and it only sounds suitable for people who have some real worthy practical experience.Market evolves everyday and with it comes new trends. Working at your laptop with a desire to hit a home run doesn't play well in a real world. You have got to go out and observe how successful brands differentiate each other from their competitors.That's how you learn the art of the game.

    James
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by james flynn View Post

      Well Gordon thanks for this eye opening thread. Copywriting is definitely not for everyone and it only sounds suitable for people who have some real worthy practical experience.Market evolves everyday and with it comes new trends. Working at your laptop with a desire to hit a home run doesn't play well in a real world. You have got to go out and observe how successful brands differentiate each other from their competitors.That's how you learn the art of the game.

      James
      James, the game is changing, rapidly.

      Yes, markets evolve everyday, and most copy gurus preach, "but people don't change".

      I think they do. Sure, we all need to eat, drink, breathe and all that living sort of stuff but the classic copy appeals to the reptilian brain as has come into Vogue, may be the only way to sell in the future, because, the new brain has been subtly rewired over the last 3 genrations.

      Brains aside, for now, nothing is for everyone, especially writers, and there is plenty of work for all the niches out there. Since copywriting today is sold as a way to make money, as a Business opportunity (Biz-Op) it has the standard Biz-Op appeals:

      Quick, Easy, MONEY

      And we see a writer can make an average American living selling WSOs and landing pages, or even VSL for the latest supplement. Well, maybe not the VSL's, those are crafted by the real copywriters who have spent the time learning more than formulas, methods, techniques and are able to get into the real wants of the audience.

      All the above...is simply BS to the person who wants it.

      They may be a guy who has read one book, or a 1001. Maybe a women who slept in her car to pursue what she wanted.

      There are NO rules. If it is easy for you, or anyone, it is easy.

      It may take days, years and or never happen.

      But this is true, as your correctly point out in the thought: copywriting is not for everyone.

      My usual rants are against those that come here posing and then begging for our help to write for their clients, because they don't know how to write copy.

      Your best bet, if you want to be a copywriter is...IGNORE ME, and most everyone else here and find out if you want it or not...or find out IF you can do it

      and that doesn't take years, WRITE copy which demands a response, and if you get some, then you may be the one in demand.

      GordonJ

      PS. I don't get motivation. I really don't. If you (the generic, group you) need pats on the back, a shoulder to cry on, a swift kick in the ass...maybe, you really don't want it bad enough and your reptile little brain believed the COPY which brought you to think you could write copy in the first place.
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