Hi rritz,

The difference between "selling" and "marketing" is "measuring'.

Typically, a copywriter's job is over once he has sold you, his client, on the work that is done. You as the client get to define the goals of the task and the conditions of success. It's your responsibility to define the goals of your copywriter. It all starts with a well chosen goal.

There is nothing wrong with asking for revisions, but it wouldn't be fair to ask for unlimited revisions. The copywriter typically is not in control over all elements of your marketing so it may not be fair to ask them to be responsible for things that are not under their control.

Perhaps you would be better off requesting a few different versions up front so that you can test differing value propositions? That would be a better approach in my opinion.

Great copy writing, when applied to a poorly conceived offer, poorly targeted audience, or a poorly executed sales process, isn't likely to provide great results.

Getting one element of your marketing process right does not necessarily guarantee success. You need to think of your marketing as a process based on a system of continuous improvements. It is a dynamic system where each part has influence on the whole system, and one bad part can throw the proverbial monkey wrench into the whole system. You need to isolate each element and test variants to find the best version.

Having said that, the most crucial element of your sales copy is the part we call the "Value Proposition". You need to develop an excellent value proposition, and test at least a few different types of value propositions to see which type your audience finds most compelling, then work on refining that specific variant to get incremental improvements in performance.

Your value proposition typically contains a handful of essential elements:

• A Compelling Value-Centric Headline
• A Sub Headline and/or An Introductory Paragraph To Provide Clarity
• A Few Selling Points That Resonates With Your Targeted Audience
• A Clear Value-Centric Call-To-Action

If you get just that part right you are probably 90% of the way there for what is needed to convert well targeted traffic.

Other elements like social proof, testimonials, credibility symbols, guarantees, and rebuttals to common objections can reduce anxiety and get you the rest of the way towards a high converting offer. But these anxiety reduction elements aren't going to help you at all if you haven't created a compelling value proposition. So keep your primary focus on the value proposition.

Focus 90 percent of your effort on getting the value proposition right, and 80% of that should be focused on the headline, which is arguable the most important page elements for high converting offers.

Don't think of copy writing as a once-and-done task, instead think of it as a continuous task of refining your message. And, if you want to practice "marketing", not just "selling", you should always create multiple variants, split test, analyze results for insights, apply insights, rinse and repeat in a continuous cycle of improvement.

HTH,

Don Burk

Ever clicked on the link in your signature? Takes you to a place that's got nothing to do with agnostics and what they know (which is the signature promise), a page that says there's a secret no one but you know that'll make me $700 some bucks a day.

If the stuff you're talking about in your post is like that, it's not the copy that's the issue. Well, your copy might suck too, but you'd be losing me long before the quality of the copy came into play.

Hi rritz,

I can't speak for any other copywriters, but maybe I can offer you a little insight into some fairly common concepts?

If you were to ask me for a guarantee of any kind, I could be willing to work with you, but it would depend on a number of criteria first.

For starters... I don't know of any copywriter worth his (or her) salt that would offer you any type of "sales" guarantees.

There's just too many factors that are out of my control (how targeted is your market? Are they dedicated followers of yours, or simply people who signed up to your list in order to get a freebie? What are you selling, and can they even afford to buy it? Are your emails even making to their inbox - or ending up in spam folders? etc. etc.)

These are only the tip of the iceberg for things that would be out of my control.

And as dburk already mentioned... Even great copy, when applied to a poorly conceived offer, poorly targeted audience, or a poorly executed sales process, likely won't get you any sales.

And even if all of those things do line up, what happens if a major world event happens the day after your sales message gets sent, and no one pays attention to your message?

I hope you can see where this is going, as far as how impossible it is to guarantee actual sales numbers?


Now that we've touched on those obvious facts, let's talk about a few other questions / answers that could make a guarantee possible (or not)...


You mention that you get good open rates on your emails. My first question would be "What does that mean?"

I would need to see some patterns before moving on to the next step.

For example: If you say 100 people opened your first email, did the same 100 people open your next email? Or was it 100 different people? (or 10% of the same, but 90% different? 20/80? 50/50? etc.)

I'd need to ask because if the same people don't constantly open your emails, then there's no way of knowing where your subscribers mindset is at.

But, if the same people are constantly opening your emails, then you might have a loyal following, or a targeted opt-in page. In which case I might be willing to offer you a guarantee of increased click through rates from the emails (probably not actual guaranteed numbers though, and again, no guarantee of sales conversions once they click through)

Now, if we get a large number of click throughs, but no sales, then the emails are probably not the problem... it's more than likely the landing page (offer, copy, design, credibility? etc.)


Next question... What is your market being targeted for? (are they expecting something other than what your promoting? )

As DABK mentioned... I just clicked your signature link, and I can only speculate as to who your target market might be. The opt-in says $700+ a day from a "secret twist."

I'm assuming it's a money making niche? But I'm not sure what kind of market you're attracting.

Is that a secret marketing twist? A secret investment twist? A secret dance move? Sexual position?

So I'd need to actually know "what" your market is targeted for, and what they're expecting from you? Because without that information, no guarantees would be possible.

Also, who's your competition? Do your subscribers trust you? Do they even want what you're selling? Because every one of your subscribers always has 3 choices...

1. They can buy from you
2. They can buy from someone else
3. They can do nothing at all



These are just a few things for you to think about. So you can be more prepared when you get ready to contract with a copywriter.

That way if you end up at one of those freelance sites, and someone offers you a guarantee without asking any questions (all for $5), you'll know you're not talking to an experienced marketer.


To wrap up this reply... The best you can do right now is find a copywriter who seems reputable, and talk to them about what you expect to achieve.

And if they know what they're doing, they'll probably want to see everything you've done up to this point (with results/numbers).

As well as asking you some questions about who your market is, how you acquired your list, what you're selling, and what your customers are buying (what you think you're selling, and what your customers think they're buying from you, is not always the same thing).



And just remember... If you're looking for a copywriter that knows what they're doing, they probably won't be cheap. So keep that in mind.

I wish you the best of luck with your search for a copywriter.

All the best,
SAR

My signature has really nothing to do with anything I am promoting. The text is a Monty Python quote and the page it goes to is an opt in page that 75% of solo ad leads couldn't resist, which just goes to show that solo ads can't work.

Anyway, I appreciate all of your input, thank you. Lots of things to think about. Or maybe, to clarify for a potential copywriter. I think I am clear for myself on most of these things but trying to make it clear to someone else might show up the weaknesses in my process ...

This a Gaga lyric?

hey there

the right answer is "no "
the only way to get a redo is buyer and seller agree to this prior to the entering into the transaction

ok
sam f

Many quality copywriters will work for a smaller upfront fee along with a commission on sales (profit share). But again tracking will come into play because you have to be able to prove to the copywriter that you are transparent in your numbers and able to provide transparent, undoctored numbers after the fact.

Copywriting isn't magic, so no copywriter can offer a guarantee. As the replies above explain, there are lots of moving parts in marketing, all of which are susceptible to failure... Even your product might be an inherent dud.

That being said, I think our very own Mark Pescetti's positioning is that he works with clients long-term, staying on a project until it converts. Read a bit about his philosophy in this recent thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-struggle.html

Not sure he works in your market but ...

hey there

no unless its agreed to in your contract

ok
talk soon
sam f

In my experience as the owner of a 5 year old copywriting business, having worked with over 1,600 clients, I always default to my Revision & Refund Policy.

In the situation you described, if the copy delivered respected your initial requirements, you'd have to pay for any revisions.

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