Roast My Landing Pages - Need help with CB Landing Pages

by Story
35 replies
hey guys,

So i am running CB + Bing and is having some trouble on identifying what makes a good LP.

1. Is this a bad template? On mobile user have to scroll quite a bit.
2. Is my landing page copy okay? Not a great writer but I did studied a lot on writing copies but am not sure if i am highlighting the benefits well enough.

Roast way no mercy



Edited, image was removed by imgur
#landing #pages #roast
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Your image links are broken.
    Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11383911].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Story
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Your image links are broken.
      Mark
      thanks man, just reuploaded the images
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11383912].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
    I'm in the same boat as you - promoting CB products via Bing Ads.

    To be honest, I don't feel that I'm qualified to comment on this, because I'm currently struggling to put together a decent landing page too. However, maybe if we share some ideas with each other, then we might get somewhere...

    First of all, I would say that you should stop running mobile traffic for CB offers, because from my experience, it does convert, but it takes way too many clicks to get a sale, so at the moment I have mobile and tablet traffic decreased by 100% in campaign settings, so I get desktop traffic only.

    Assuming you link out from your landing page to the vendor's page, then I personally don't see what value are you adding on your page?

    It doesn't review the product, it doesn't provide any personal experience - you just list some features of the product and that's it.

    I struggle to see how that would result in any decent conversions, because essentially you have a very short page that mentions exactly the same things as the sales page does? It begs the question - what is the point of it?

    With my own landing pages, I usually go for the personal story.

    Basically, a story from someone who has the same problem that your visitor is looking to solve (build a shed or lower cholesterol or whatever), you describe the problem and how you've tried to solve it in the past with XYZ methods, but nothing worked until you came across the Clickbank product.

    Then you say a few words about the product, nothing too promotional, and recommend your visitor to check it out. So this way, you relate to your reader by saying that you have the same "problem" and also you suggest a possible solution aka the CB product.

    Using the above approach, I usually convert in 30-40 hops, but that's still not enough to make at least a 100% ROI.

    Of course, there are many other factors involved that determine the conversion rate, i.e. keywords, ads, campaign settings, but getting the landing page right is VERY important.

    Would be great to hear from other Bing Ads advertisers who have more experience on Clickbank presells.
    Signature

    .

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11384203].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
    What's your primary objective - to get an email or to send the click to the CB sales page?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11384241].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Story
    Originally Posted by SERPTurbo View Post

    I'm in the same boat as you - promoting CB products via Bing Ads.
    Assuming you link out from your landing page to the vendor's page, then I personally don't see what value are you adding on your page?

    It doesn't review the product, it doesn't provide any personal experience - you just list some features of the product and that's it.

    I struggle to see how that would result in any decent conversions, because essentially you have a very short page that mentions exactly the same things as the sales page does? It begs the question - what is the point of it?

    With my own landing pages, I usually go for the personal story.

    Using the above approach, I usually convert in 30-40 hops, but that's still not enough to make at least a 100% ROI.
    hey SERPturbo,
    I have been following your posts with great interest. I think you have figured out most of the puzzle and is really close to profiting.

    Indeed my page is horrible at preselling and that's my biggest problem now - making a landing page that works.

    May I know if you are getting a sale from 30-40 hops to your landing page, or CB sales page?

    Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

    What's your primary objective - to get an email or to send the click to the CB sales page?
    Objective was to presell and send user to CB sales page
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11384397].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
    Your should aim for approximately 50-60% landing page CTR, so if 100 people come to your landing page from Bing, then at least 50-60 people should click-through to the vendor's sales page.

    So when I say I convert in 30 hops, I mean that out of those 60 people (60 hops) who clicked-through, I would get 2 sales.

    It's not all set in stone, it fluctuates and it's all dependant on the niche, but in fact, I'm not running any campaigns at the moment, as I'm trying to figure out where my problem is....

    When you are constantly spending thousands on testing without making much progress, after a while it feels like that you're wasting time and money for nothing.
    Signature

    .

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11384716].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Originally Posted by Story View Post

    hey guys,

    So i am running CB + Bing and is having some trouble on identifying what makes a good LP.

    1. Is this a bad template? On mobile user have to scroll quite a bit.
    2. Is my landing page copy okay? Not a great writer but I did studied a lot on writing copies but am not sure if i am highlighting the benefits well enough.

    Roast way no mercy



    Edited, image was removed by imgur





    The only possible way to know what converts is to split test multiple versions of the sales page.

    Running one version of a webpage doesn't tell you anything useful as far as If sales could be better because you have nothing to compare against it.

    You need more sales pages for the same product and be collecting conversion data to make better decisions. Until you do this, you're just wasting money on PPC.
    Signature
    Hi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11384720].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    How did you decide that these were the things your potential customers really wanted?

    My guess, based on some of the comments here, is that you simply copied them from the vendor page.

    Before you waste any more money on PPC, do some actual research to find the hot buttons people in that market really have.

    For example, what do people get from lowering their cholesterol? Not the clinical benefit, but the core emotional benefit? Is it longer life? More active lifestyle? What?

    How about the shed plans? What do people get from using these plans over something they find at the public library. Who needs 12,000 plans? What do they get?

    Spend time on forums, blogs, Q&A sites like Quora, etc. Look for the language people seeking answers that your chosen products provide use.

    Address those in your landing pages, and test.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385230].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Story
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      How did you decide that these were the things your potential customers really wanted?

      My guess, based on some of the comments here, is that you simply copied them from the vendor page.

      Before you waste any more money on PPC, do some actual research to find the hot buttons people in that market really have.

      For example, what do people get from lowering their cholesterol? Not the clinical benefit, but the core emotional benefit? Is it longer life? More active lifestyle? What?

      How about the shed plans? What do people get from using these plans over something they find at the public library. Who needs 12,000 plans? What do they get?

      Spend time on forums, blogs, Q&A sites like Quora, etc. Look for the language people seeking answers that your chosen products provide use.

      Address those in your landing pages, and test.
      Thanks for chiming in John. Appreciate your time.

      I did researched the audience in forums and jot down the pain points they are having.

      For example these are the pain points for people looking for shed plans:
      - lack of experience
      - free shed plans are BS
      - free shed plans lack of detail, they need step by step instruction
      - no material list & measurement provided
      - lack of option

      Hence all the points in my landing page are to address these problems.
      However all I did was list out the features.
      I believe the main part I need to fix is to sell emotional benefit as you suggested.

      At the moment I am facing major block expressing the emotional benefit and tie it to the product feature.
      I am reading some books on copywriting but any advise/examples are most welcome.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385242].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
    Knowing your buyer keywords tells you more about what landing page to use. Follow the path the customer uses. They see your ad ... your landing page should match that ad like 100%

    Don't be afraid to make several landers that are similar, but written to match each keyword group you are using.

    It's kind of hard to "critique" without knowing the full customer path and it starts with the keyword they use to trigger the ad, the ad copy, and then the lander.

    Otherwise you get vague "copywriting 101" kind of advice that actually ain't all that helpful.

    Keyword => Ad Copy => Landing Page => CB Sales Page


    That's the customer path and each part matters. So I really can't give a critique worth much, because the landing page is like 25% of that. It's not the full picture at all.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385365].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author helisell
    The 'shed' product

    The vendor on CB 'Claims' to have designed 12,000 sheds.

    I calculated that if he 'designed' 1 shed a day.....5 days a week
    it would have taken him 46 years....c'mon get real.

    You are not going to be selling shed plans from this site and expect
    to make any money.

    It's all just fakery.

    What made you think there was a market for one person to buy 12,000 shed plans?...it's just insane.

    I thought that with affiliate marketing you had to find out

    'what keeps them awake at night'

    Then provide the means to sell them something that solves that problem.

    12,000 shed plans is not going to do it for you. Stop spending a dime right now.

    Sit down. Have a re-think.
    Signature

    Making Calls To Sell Something? What are you actually saying?
    Is there any room for improvement? Want to find out?

    Say This Instead

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385458].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
      Originally Posted by helisell View Post

      The 'shed' product

      The vendor on CB 'Claims' to have designed 12,000 sheds.

      I calculated that if he 'designed' 1 shed a day.....5 days a week
      it would have taken him 46 years....c'mon get real.

      You are not going to be selling shed plans from this site and expect
      to make any money.

      It's all just fakery.

      What made you think there was a market for one person to buy 12,000 shed plans?...it's just insane.

      I thought that with affiliate marketing you had to find out

      'what keeps them awake at night'

      Then provide the means to sell them something that solves that problem.

      12,000 shed plans is not going to do it for you. Stop spending a dime right now.

      Sit down. Have a re-think.
      See, it's this kind of BS advice that misinforms people and they end up making wrong decisions...

      This product has been on Clickbank and selling well since 2008. I've promoted it myself and the refund rates are in the region of 8-9%.

      Instead of showing your maths skills, you could've tried promoting it yourself and come back here to report if the market for the product was there or not....

      NO ONE cares whether he's got 12k shed plans for sale or 50k plans - what matters is whether the product sells or not and how low are the refund rates. That's it.

      Sit down, have a "re-think" and let the customer decide what's fake or what's not.
      Signature

      .

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385484].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author helisell
        Originally Posted by SERPTurbo View Post

        See, it's this kind of BS advice that misinforms people and they end up making wrong decisions...

        This product has been on Clickbank and selling well since 2008. I've promoted it myself and the refund rates are in the region of 8-9%.

        Instead of showing your maths skills, you could've tried promoting it yourself and come back here to report if the market for the product was there or not....

        NO ONE cares whether he's got 12k shed plans for sale or 50k plans - what matters is whether the product sells or not and how low are the refund rates. That's it.

        Sit down, have a "re-think" and let the customer decide what's fake or what's not.
        So here's an idea for you.

        You 'used' to promote the shed product you say? [not now though eh?]

        Why not just tell the OP how you did it.

        I've had my own online businesses for over 12 years and producing 6 figure incomes.

        I don't give B.S. advice
        Signature

        Making Calls To Sell Something? What are you actually saying?
        Is there any room for improvement? Want to find out?

        Say This Instead

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11388677].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by Story View Post

    Thanks for chiming in John. Appreciate your time.

    I did researched the audience in forums and jot down the pain points they are having.

    For example these are the pain points for people looking for shed plans:
    - lack of experience
    - free shed plans are BS
    - free shed plans lack of detail, they need step by step instruction
    - no material list & measurement provided
    - lack of option

    Hence all the points in my landing page are to address these problems.
    However all I did was list out the features.
    I believe the main part I need to fix is to sell emotional benefit as you suggested.

    At the moment I am facing major block expressing the emotional benefit and tie it to the product feature.
    I am reading some books on copywriting but any advise/examples are most welcome.
    I usually have to tell people to drill down. In this case, I think you need to go the other way.

    Answer two questions:

    1) Why is the ideal buyer wanting to build a shed at all? What are the emotional benefits of having a shed? (Think enhanced property value, reduced clutter, protection for expensive tools and toys, etc.)

    2) Why are they thinking about building it themselves from plans, rather than buying a pre-made shed and having it delivered or hiring someone to build the shed?

    Here's an exercise to help you...

    Write down one of the answers to the above questions. Let's say someone decides they want a custom shed so it matches the style of the house.

    Ask yourself, so what?

    Having the shed match the style of the house looks nicer than a metal prefab.

    So what?

    It enhances the look of the property?

    So what?

    It gives me more pride in my home and makes the neighbors jealous.

    Now there's an emotional benefit.

    Just take each point and keep asking the 'so what' question until you run out of 'so whats.' That's your emotional benefit.

    Once you have them sold on the emotional benefit of buying plans so they can have a custom shed, then you can start showing them how the product relieves the pain points that go with the project. At this point, you're giving them the logical ammunition to justify something they already want.

    Make sense?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385662].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Well Story, right off the top I see a couple of potential flaws in the cholesterol copy that could be hurting your response rates. But, before I offer any advice, I need to ask...

    What kind of response rates are you currently getting with your cholesterol piece?

    i.e. How many (human) visitors have clicked on your Bing ad, and landed on your page? And, how many of those humans who have landed on your page, clicked on your call to action button?
    Signature
    "It all boils down to psychology, and numbers"
    SARubin - Direct Response Copywriter / Advertising and Marketing Aficionado
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385715].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Story
    Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

    Knowing your buyer keywords tells you more about what landing page to use. Follow the path the customer uses. They see your ad ... your landing page should match that ad like 100%

    Don't be afraid to make several landers that are similar, but written to match each keyword group you are using.

    It's kind of hard to "critique" without knowing the full customer path and it starts with the keyword they use to trigger the ad, the ad copy, and then the lander.

    Otherwise you get vague "copywriting 101" kind of advice that actually ain't all that helpful.

    Keyword => Ad Copy => Landing Page => CB Sales Page


    That's the customer path and each part matters. So I really can't give a critique worth much, because the landing page is like 25% of that. It's not the full picture at all.

    Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

    Well Story, right off the top I see a couple of potential flaws in the cholesterol copy that could be hurting your response rates. But, before I offer any advice, I need to ask...

    What kind of response rates are you currently getting with your cholesterol piece?

    i.e. How many (human) visitors have clicked on your Bing ad, and landed on your page? And, how many of those humans who have landed on your page, clicked on your call to action button?
    Here's more info for this campaign:

    Landing page to offer CTR: 25-30%

    Keywords:
    cholesterol lowering diet
    cholesterol diet

    Ad Copy:
    Lower Your High Cholesterol | Diet/Food for High Cholesterol
    Learn how you can lower your cholesterol without sacrificing your favorite food.

    So far I've gotten ~50 clicks from Bing before i paused the campaign. With 25% CTR thats around 12 clicks to offer.
    I know this data is too small but i paused the campaign as i think the landing page copy isn't good enough to continue.

    thanks
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385873].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SARubin
      Originally Posted by Story View Post

      Here's more info for this campaign:

      Landing page to offer CTR: 25-30%

      Keywords:
      cholesterol lowering diet
      cholesterol diet

      Ad Copy:
      Lower Your High Cholesterol | Diet/Food for High Cholesterol
      Learn how you can lower your cholesterol without sacrificing your favorite food.

      So far I've gotten ~50 clicks from Bing before i paused the campaign. With 25% CTR thats around 12 clicks to offer.
      I know this data is too small but i paused the campaign as i think the landing page copy isn't good enough to continue.

      thanks

      OK, at least you're aware that 50 visitors is hardly enough to get any kind of real averages.

      Unless you have a highly targeted audience, and you know them intimately, the stats from that few visitors is not much better than random chance.

      Ideally, I'd like to see the numbers from at least 1000 sets of human eyes, before we start to make any conclusions about what is or isn't working.

      But we at least need to see a couple hundred visitors before jumping to any conclusions that the copy isn't working.


      On the other hand, what are you honestly expecting for results?

      25% to 30% conversion rates (click through rates) on a landing page, in an over-saturated market like the one you're targeting, is pretty damn good!


      I know that SERPturbo said you should be aiming for 50% to 60% CTR, but that same person also admitted that they're currently struggling with their own landing page conversions. So take any advice you get from anyone on this forum (even mine) with a grain of salt.


      A couple years ago, bigger numbers were more easily obtained. But today, the marketplace is more saturated... more people have already been exposed to the over hyped promises... and fewer people are enamored by the bright shiny messages coming from strangers on the internet.

      So maybe 50 - 60% CTR is possible, if you offer some irresistible freebie. But just keep in mind... 99% of those freebie seekers will never actually buy anything.

      Now if you really aspire to reach those high CTR rates, I'm sure there's a ton of gooroos out there who will promise you those kinds of numbers (and all you need to do is buy their super ultimate ninja conversion system, for only $97)


      Here's a reality check for you, Story...


      According to unbounce.com - https://unbounce.com/what-is-a-good-conversion-rate/

      Generally, a 12% conversion rate is pretty good for lead generation landing pages. And by "pretty good," we mean you'll be better than about 90% of your competitors.
      That's according to our analysis of 64,000+ landing pages across 10 popular customer industries.


      Bottom line (and I'm going to repeat myself here)...

      A 25% to 30% conversion rate (click through rate) on a landing page, in an over-saturated market like the one you're targeting, is pretty damn good!

      So right now, I recommend sending a few hundred more people to your page, and then come back here in a couple weeks, when you have some real numbers to look at.

      Sorry if that all sounds a bit blunt, but I wouldn't be doing you any favors if I wasn't honest with you.



      So now, let's move on to your copy, shall we...

      First thing I see is on your ad, you use the word "favorite" but on your page (headline), you spell it with a "u" (favourite)

      Either one works (depending on whether you're American, or European) but I recommend picking one, and being consistent with it.

      Changing it up, from the ad to the page, looks incongruent. It's a subtle (almost subliminal) incongruency. But any incongruency, this early in your message, can plant the seed of mistrust in the mind of your audience.

      They might not even know why they don't trust you. But people don't always have to know "why" in order for them to feel that something is off.


      Now, on your page there's a couple things I would recommend tweaking in your copy.

      Of course, the only way to know what works is to test it. But here's a couple suggestions for you (from someone who's written more than one successful control piece over the years)...


      For starters, I would split test the headline. It's not terrible as it is, but try testing a few different variations to see if it increases your response rate (run a couple hundred sets of eyes past each one, and see what the numbers tell you)

      I'm not going to sit here and write a bunch of headlines for you to test. But, I'll get you started...

      The first thing you can try is to simply add the word "Discover" at the beginning of what you already have. "Discover" is an interesting word. It doesn't always work, but when it does, it often gets peoples imaginations flowing (which gets them involved with your copy) and that's a good thing.


      The next thing I'd recommend changing is the sub-headline...

      "This video will reveal the secret to high cholesterol"

      (if you copied that line directly from the CB vendors sales page, then I'd advise them to change it also. Because that line is not helping anybody's conversion rates)

      The thing is, Story... As your visitor, I don't want to know the secret to high cholesterol. I already have high cholesterol (it's no secret) and I want a solution. I want to know the secret to "lowering" my cholesterol.

      Consider changing it to something along the lines of...

      "This video will reveal the secret to lowering your cholesterol"

      That's a benefit I'd be interested in.


      The next thing that caused me to hesitate in the flow of the copy, is the bullet point that says...

      "High cholesterol drug is not the only option"

      It's a minor flaw, but it reads like an incomplete sentence. It caused me to hesitate (for just a split second). And it broke the flow of my journey. (hesitation causes friction... and friction causes resistance)

      A more flowing sentence would be...

      "A High cholesterol drug is not the only option"

      or

      "High cholesterol drugs are not the only option"

      These are more proper sentences, and they help reduce the hiccup in your copy.



      Finally, I would split test your call to action button

      Try testing the current CTA "Yes, I want to watch the video now" against something that ties in more definitively with the main benefit of your message.

      Something along the lines of "Yes, I want to lower my cholesterol now"

      The first one "watching a video" is all good and well. But the second one is a call to action that tells me I'm moving towards my ultimate goal.



      Anyway, Story, those are just a few ideas worth split testing. I would create another page with some of the changes I mentioned here. And then send a couple hundred (or more) visitors to each page before making any more decisions about what is (or isn't) working.

      I wish you the best of luck with your venture. And by all means, come back here after you get a bit more data that we can look at. And then maybe someone here can offer you more specific advice.

      All the best,
      SAR
      Signature
      "It all boils down to psychology, and numbers"
      SARubin - Direct Response Copywriter / Advertising and Marketing Aficionado
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385955].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
      Originally Posted by Story View Post

      Keywords:
      cholesterol lowering diet
      cholesterol diet
      Those are not "urgent buyer" keywords.

      The way to profit bigly (lol) on PPC arbitrage is to ONLY target buyers. People who are ready to buy when they make the query.

      No one else.

      And the right keywords do that for you.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385991].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
        Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

        Those are not "urgent buyer" keywords.

        The way to profit bigly (lol) on PPC arbitrage is to ONLY target buyers. People who are ready to buy when they make the query.

        No one else.

        And the right keywords do that for you.
        I keep hearing this thing about the "right keywords", the buyer keywords, but the reality is that they just have no volume?

        What would be the "buyer keyword" for the shed plans?

        "buy shed plans online"? I can tell you that keyword probably gets searched twice a year, if lucky....

        So my understanding is that you have to bid on relevant keywords, but your landing page has to do quite a bit of work for pre-selling and then obviously the sales page finishes the job aka you get a conversion....

        I could be wrong, but the fact that any "buyer keywords" for any niche have non-existing search volume, I see no other way but to bid on closely relevant keywords with decent volume and then use a landing page to help with conversions.
        Signature

        .

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11388476].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          It is a continuum. A lot fewer people are ready to buy something today than are thinking about buying it.
          A lot more people are interested in buying in the next month than have an interset in that thing.

          Compare:
          Who made Markle's wedding dress
          And
          Why are wedding dresses white

          To

          Mermaid wedding dresses
          And
          Long sleeve wedding dresses

          To

          Wedding dress shops near me
          Mermaid wedding dresses Las Vegas

          To

          Affordable wedding dresses Las Vegas
          Long sleeve wedding dresses Las Vegas
          Best wedding dress shops Las Vegas

          The first 2 are definitively not buyer keywords.

          The last group are buyer keywords.

          The middle 2 are used by both buyers and not buyers.

          There is a wide range in the readiness of the buyers. Your landing page should get the buyers in this group in the next part of your funnel. It has to be different from the ones that want and/or have to buy now.

          The people who have buyer words lists are not wrong, but you do leave money on the table if you do not go for the buyers who are at the beginning or middle of the buying road.


          Originally Posted by SERPTurbo View Post

          I keep hearing this thing about the "right keywords", the buyer keywords, but the reality is that they just have no volume?

          What would be the "buyer keyword" for the shed plans?

          "buy shed plans online"? I can tell you that keyword probably gets searched twice a year, if lucky....

          So my understanding is that you have to bid on relevant keywords, but your landing page has to do quite a bit of work for pre-selling and then obviously the sales page finishes the job aka you get a conversion....

          I could be wrong, but the fact that any "buyer keywords" for any niche have non-existing search volume, I see no other way but to bid on closely relevant keywords with decent volume and then use a landing page to help with conversions.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11388732].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
            Originally Posted by helisell View Post

            So here's an idea for you.

            You 'used' to promote the shed product you say? [not now though eh?]

            Why not just tell the OP how you did it.

            I've had my own online businesses for over 12 years and producing 6 figure incomes.

            I don't give B.S. advice
            With all due respect, you can have 50 years of business experience, but unless you're giving out just generic business advice, your help is irrelevant in the context of specifically promoting that particular product using the OP's promotion method.

            On the face of it, you might think it's a stupid product with 12k shed plans, when you really need just one, but like I mentioned earlier, what matters is how it sells and the refund rates - end of story.

            As for my own experience, I had a fair bit of sales, but in the end I moved away from the niche due to lack of volume - simple. With a wide-open campaign with plenty of broad keywords, you'll struggle to get even 100 clicks/day.

            Bearing in mind, that you need to test multiple landers, establish converting keywords, etc, the end result is not even worth it, considering time spent vs money earned.

            Originally Posted by DABK View Post

            It is a continuum. A lot fewer people are ready to buy something today than are thinking about buying it.
            A lot more people are interested in buying in the next month than have an interset in that thing.

            Compare:
            Who made Markle's wedding dress
            And
            Why are wedding dresses white

            To

            Mermaid wedding dresses
            And
            Long sleeve wedding dresses

            To

            Wedding dress shops near me
            Mermaid wedding dresses Las Vegas

            To

            Affordable wedding dresses Las Vegas
            Long sleeve wedding dresses Las Vegas
            Best wedding dress shops Las Vegas

            The first 2 are definitively not buyer keywords.

            The last group are buyer keywords.

            The middle 2 are used by both buyers and not buyers.

            There is a wide range in the readiness of the buyers. Your landing page should get the buyers in this group in the next part of your funnel. It has to be different from the ones that want and/or have to buy now.

            The people who have buyer words lists are not wrong, but you do leave money on the table if you do not go for the buyers who are at the beginning or middle of the buying road.
            You have a point, but as I mentioned earlier, "buyer keywords" for most niches have almost non-existent volume, so you can have the best-converting keyword on the planet, but if it only gets searched once a month, then how many sales are you going to make out of it, say in a 90 day period?

            Keeping in mind that obviously there are many other factors that contribute to a sale, so a "buyer keyword" only helps, but it won't magically transform your campaign.

            As with many things, it makes perfect sense in theory, but you won't see the full picture until you actually start testing things and take off your rose-tinted spectacles.
            Signature

            .

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11389700].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author DABK
              Why are you talking about 'a buyer keyword?'


              The goal is to find hundreds of keywords that each gets you one sale, not one keyword that gets you hundreds of sales.


              And, then, work on finding many ways of getting 1 sale, not just one way to make many sales.


              It's easier.


              And there were no rosy-colored glasses on my face when I wrote the previous, just some experience-based thinking.


              I have the feeling you missed all I said. Which, of course, is your right to do. So, cheers!



              Originally Posted by SERPTurbo View Post

              With all due respect, you can have 50 years of business experience, but unless you're giving out just generic business advice, your help is irrelevant in the context of specifically promoting that particular product using the OP's promotion method.

              On the face of it, you might think it's a stupid product with 12k shed plans, when you really need just one, but like I mentioned earlier, what matters is how it sells and the refund rates - end of story.

              As for my own experience, I had a fair bit of sales, but in the end I moved away from the niche due to lack of volume - simple. With a wide-open campaign with plenty of broad keywords, you'll struggle to get even 100 clicks/day.

              Bearing in mind, that you need to test multiple landers, establish converting keywords, etc, the end result is not even worth it, considering time spent vs money earned.



              You have a point, but as I mentioned earlier, "buyer keywords" for most niches have almost non-existent volume, so you can have the best-converting keyword on the planet, but if it only gets searched once a month, then how many sales are you going to make out of it, say in a 90 day period?

              Keeping in mind that obviously there are many other factors that contribute to a sale, so a "buyer keyword" only helps, but it won't magically transform your campaign.

              As with many things, it makes perfect sense in theory, but you won't see the full picture until you actually start testing things and take off your rose-tinted spectacles.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11396392].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
                Originally Posted by Story View Post

                Hey SERPTurbo,

                I've tested out urgent keywords - indeed they do generate more conversion but the traffic is so low and on some days I am getting 0 clicks.

                At the moment I am back to the drawing board as I can't figure out how to run anything with good conversion and volume. Every split test take days and even if I were to slowly test more offer/landers, I doubt I can get any significant revenue from the amount of traffic I am getting.
                Exactly my point with "buyer keywords".

                You hear experts tell you to bid on product names, because they are the most relevant keywords, but they don't tell you that those product keywords get 5 clicks/day max.

                From my experience, I think you need to make sure that you can get at least 80-100 clicks per day, then you can use that traffic to gather data and optimize your campaign.

                Of course, you still have to keep the keywords relevant, so don't go chasing just volume for the sake of getting more clicks by bidding on generic keywords, because that won't end well...

                As for keyword research, I found Bing's Keyword Planner absolutely rubbish, because it generates some gibberish keywords while the estimated volume is often inaccurate.

                What I do, is use Adwords Keyword Tool to search for various keywords related to the product that I'm promoting, making sure each keyword gets at least 100 searches/month. Obviously, the actual volume figures will be significantly less on Bing, but this doesn't matter, because you can delete those dead keywords later anyway.

                Then sort the keywords into relevant adgroups, keeping similar keywords together, so you can write better ads, and then start testing.

                Your landing page will play a big role in getting the conversions, but at least if you can set up the campaign right, then it's one less thing to worry about.

                Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                Why are you talking about 'a buyer keyword?'


                The goal is to find hundreds of keywords that each gets you one sale, not one keyword that gets you hundreds of sales.


                And, then, work on finding many ways of getting 1 sale, not just one way to make many sales.


                It's easier.


                And there were no rosy-colored glasses on my face when I wrote the previous, just some experience-based thinking.


                I have the feeling you missed all I said. Which, of course, is your right to do. So, cheers!
                I'm not too sure about your theory of hundreds of keywords getting one sale each...Pretty much all the people I know who do PPC successfully have a very small list of keywords, which get ok volume and generate good sales.

                By all means, you can prove me wrong, if you have done things differently and it worked for you.
                Signature

                .

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11396495].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
                Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                The goal is to find hundreds of keywords that each gets you one sale, not one keyword that gets you hundreds of sales.
                That's pretty much the exact opposite of how profitable PPC campaigns are built.

                On Bing?

                Most niches don't even have hundreds of keywords that get daily traffic, let alone sales.

                P.S. The goal is to profit and scale. But scaling doesn't usually come from expanding out to hundreds of keywords. It's to find the Pareto Distribution. And maximize the sh*t out of it.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11398639].message }}
  • tbh I wanna know how I can build a shed in two days while also lowerin' my cholesterol level.


    bcs FFS any kinda super speedy shed assembly sure looks like "exercise like crazy" to Moi.


    So mebbe get passionate 'bout sumthin' real specific.


    Sounds like you sendin' fat ass losers to erect their own Inactivity Bunkers.


    (If it helps, my cognitive dissonance pitch to the planet would feature shit you can't uncouple from yr genes allied to maxo firepower you can pull from same. If I can fix also the swimmin' with dolphins deal that mebbe says more for my capacity for bendin' over to suit yr whims than it does for the intrinsic stoopiditya dolphins. ffs why they even fellow mammals, the losers?)
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff together.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11385944].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    I've never wanted to build a shed with my own two hands in my life. If I ever will, it will be because either:
    1. Buying a ready-made one doesn't suit my purposes
    2. Buying a ready-made one is too expensive
    3. Hiring someone else to do it is too expensive and/or too annoying.


    If I ever wanted a shed, it would not be because I wanted a shed but because I wanted a big-ass dog house (it would have insulation, heating and air conditioning and hand-made draperies on the big-ass dog window).


    Kidding, but because I remember reading in one of Dan Kennedy's book about a seller of sheds that was very successful who got his buyers to send him photos and info about what they did with their sheds once they got them home... For some, the sheds were places to keep tools, for some, it was a kid's play ground... I learned people use sheds like they're house additions, toys, thinking places, tree houses...



    So, the seller may be exaggerating the number of sheds he/she/it/they designed, but I see a lot of sheds around where I am... In unexpected houses... I used to assume it was because they did not have basements. Learned that they do have basements, but it's easier to keep lawn tool in the shed or get your kid out of your hair in summer.


    The cholesterol thing: if you're thinking about diets to lower cholesterol, you ain't concerned enough to spend money to change things.


    Your doctor tells you your bad cholesterol is gonna kill you in 3 weeks, you spend money for sure. Many people would spend money a bit before they get to the last 3 weeks, but not that far ahead.



    So, you either change the pitch and the product or find the unusual ones, the ones who have no cholesterol issues but are so into fitness they'd rather not even get there, pitch them the diet things.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11386771].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Reed Larson
    "completely clean up the plague in your arteries"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11386788].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Story
    Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

    tbh I wanna know how I can build a shed in two days while also lowerin' my cholesterol level.


    bcs FFS any kinda super speedy shed assembly sure looks like "exercise like crazy" to Moi.
    The shed plan & the cholesterol landing page are for different campaign.

    I also wish to know how building a shed can lower my cholesterol.


    Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

    OK, at least you're aware that 50 visitors is hardly enough to get any kind of real averages.

    Unless you have a highly targeted audience, and you know them intimately, the stats from that few visitors is not much better than random chance.

    Ideally, I'd like to see the numbers from at least 1000 sets of human eyes, before we start to make any conclusions about what is or isn't working.

    But we at least need to see a couple hundred visitors before jumping to any conclusions that the copy isn't working.


    On the other hand, what are you honestly expecting for results?

    25% to 30% conversion rates (click through rates) on a landing page, in an over-saturated market like the one you're targeting, is pretty damn good!


    I know that SERPturbo said you should be aiming for 50% to 60% CTR, but that same person also admitted that they're currently struggling with their own landing page conversions. So take any advice you get from anyone on this forum (even mine) with a grain of salt.


    A couple years ago, bigger numbers were more easily obtained. But today, the marketplace is more saturated... more people have already been exposed to the over hyped promises... and fewer people are enamored by the bright shiny messages coming from strangers on the internet.

    So maybe 50 - 60% CTR is possible, if you offer some irresistible freebie. But just keep in mind... 99% of those freebie seekers will never actually buy anything.

    Now if you really aspire to reach those high CTR rates, I'm sure there's a ton of gooroos out there who will promise you those kinds of numbers (and all you need to do is buy their super ultimate ninja conversion system, for only $97)


    Here's a reality check for you, Story...


    According to unbounce.com - https://unbounce.com/what-is-a-good-conversion-rate/

    Generally, a 12% conversion rate is pretty good for lead generation landing pages. And by "pretty good," we mean you'll be better than about 90% of your competitors.
    That's according to our analysis of 64,000+ landing pages across 10 popular customer industries.


    Bottom line (and I'm going to repeat myself here)...

    A 25% to 30% conversion rate (click through rate) on a landing page, in an over-saturated market like the one you're targeting, is pretty damn good!

    So right now, I recommend sending a few hundred more people to your page, and then come back here in a couple weeks, when you have some real numbers to look at.

    Sorry if that all sounds a bit blunt, but I wouldn't be doing you any favors if I wasn't honest with you.



    So now, let's move on to your copy, shall we...

    First thing I see is on your ad, you use the word "favorite" but on your page (headline), you spell it with a "u" (favourite)

    Either one works (depending on whether you're American, or European) but I recommend picking one, and being consistent with it.

    Changing it up, from the ad to the page, looks incongruent. It's a subtle (almost subliminal) incongruency. But any incongruency, this early in your message, can plant the seed of mistrust in the mind of your audience.

    They might not even know why they don't trust you. But people don't always have to know "why" in order for them to feel that something is off.


    Now, on your page there's a couple things I would recommend tweaking in your copy.

    Of course, the only way to know what works is to test it. But here's a couple suggestions for you (from someone who's written more than one successful control piece over the years)...


    For starters, I would split test the headline. It's not terrible as it is, but try testing a few different variations to see if it increases your response rate (run a couple hundred sets of eyes past each one, and see what the numbers tell you)

    I'm not going to sit here and write a bunch of headlines for you to test. But, I'll get you started...

    The first thing you can try is to simply add the word "Discover" at the beginning of what you already have. "Discover" is an interesting word. It doesn't always work, but when it does, it often gets peoples imaginations flowing (which gets them involved with your copy) and that's a good thing.


    The next thing I'd recommend changing is the sub-headline...

    "This video will reveal the secret to high cholesterol"

    (if you copied that line directly from the CB vendors sales page, then I'd advise them to change it also. Because that line is not helping anybody's conversion rates)

    The thing is, Story... As your visitor, I don't want to know the secret to high cholesterol. I already have high cholesterol (it's no secret) and I want a solution. I want to know the secret to "lowering" my cholesterol.

    Consider changing it to something along the lines of...

    "This video will reveal the secret to lowering your cholesterol"

    That's a benefit I'd be interested in.


    The next thing that caused me to hesitate in the flow of the copy, is the bullet point that says...

    "High cholesterol drug is not the only option"

    It's a minor flaw, but it reads like an incomplete sentence. It caused me to hesitate (for just a split second). And it broke the flow of my journey. (hesitation causes friction... and friction causes resistance)

    A more flowing sentence would be...

    "A High cholesterol drug is not the only option"

    or

    "High cholesterol drugs are not the only option"

    These are more proper sentences, and they help reduce the hiccup in your copy.



    Finally, I would split test your call to action button

    Try testing the current CTA "Yes, I want to watch the video now" against something that ties in more definitively with the main benefit of your message.

    Something along the lines of "Yes, I want to lower my cholesterol now"

    The first one "watching a video" is all good and well. But the second one is a call to action that tells me I'm moving towards my ultimate goal.



    Anyway, Story, those are just a few ideas worth split testing. I would create another page with some of the changes I mentioned here. And then send a couple hundred (or more) visitors to each page before making any more decisions about what is (or isn't) working.

    I wish you the best of luck with your venture. And by all means, come back here after you get a bit more data that we can look at. And then maybe someone here can offer you more specific advice.

    All the best,
    SAR
    Thank you SAR for the amazing suggestions. It's exactly the advise i was looking for as the LP didnt felt right somewhere.

    As for the CTR part, I try not to be too obsessed with it as CTR alone is not a very accurate metric to look at. Hence anywhere from 30% would be good enough for now.

    Definitely there are a lot of absorb from your suggestions. It really opened my eyes to look deeper into each elements of the page.



    Originally Posted by DABK View Post

    I've never wanted to build a shed with my own two hands in my life. If I ever will, it will be because either:
    1. Buying a ready-made one doesn't suit my purposes
    2. Buying a ready-made one is too expensive
    3. Hiring someone else to do it is too expensive and/or too annoying.


    The cholesterol thing: if you're thinking about diets to lower cholesterol, you ain't concerned enough to spend money to change things.

    Your doctor tells you your bad cholesterol is gonna kill you in 3 weeks, you spend money for sure. Many people would spend money a bit before they get to the last 3 weeks, but not that far ahead.

    So, you either change the pitch and the product or find the unusual ones, the ones who have no cholesterol issues but are so into fitness they'd rather not even get there, pitch them the diet things.
    Now that you mentioned it, indeed there is 0 urgency about using diets to lower cholesterol.
    I certainly overlooked this part and picked whatever keyword that directly describe the product.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11386998].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    I feel it looks clean and clear. Seems A-OK to me. Maybe ease up on the red lettering; to me it says STOP, rather than move forward with the call to action. Appeals to fear versus harmony. But I am weird.
    Signature
    Ryan Biddulph, Blogger, Author, World Traveling Digital Nomad
    If you want to become a full time blogger you can buy my eBook here
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11387134].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
    Any update on this? How are you getting on, Story?
    Signature

    .

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11395792].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Story
      Originally Posted by SERPTurbo View Post

      Any update on this? How are you getting on, Story?
      Hey SERPTurbo,

      I've tested out urgent keywords - indeed they do generate more conversion but the traffic is so low and on some days I am getting 0 clicks.

      At the moment I am back to the drawing board as I can't figure out how to run anything with good conversion and volume. Every split test take days and even if I were to slowly test more offer/landers, I doubt I can get any significant revenue from the amount of traffic I am getting.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11396130].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    I work with CRO all day every day... The one thing I see the MOST with people trying to optimize their funnels, is they focus in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    So there are generally 3 steps ( 3 conversions ) that have to take place to make a sale.
    • The Clickbait or link to the offer
    • The prequalifying enter email get free report stage
    • The sale

    Again this is generally the case. What happens is most people focus on the end stage.. they want to optimize the sale... but like has been mentioned doing so with 5 clicks a day coming across means the testing can take days - weeks - months.

    I would suggest setting the 3 stages in place, and THEN focus on the traffic ( the bait ) - Don't concern yourself with whats happening at stages 2 and 3 until you have what you feel might be ideal traffic, 100 visitors a day is a number I read in this thread.

    Once you can consistently get the numbers across to step 2 then test step 2. Get the conversions you need across that step to step 3 consistently and then and only then test the actual pitch to create sales.

    Once you have a solid traffic flow... the rest will just fall into place.
    Signature
    Tools, Content, and Strategies to Develop Your Online Commerce Business - Coming Soon
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11398678].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SERPTurbo
      Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

      That's pretty much the exact opposite of how profitable PPC campaigns are built.

      On Bing?

      Most niches don't even have hundreds of keywords that get daily traffic, let alone sales.

      P.S. The goal is to profit and scale. But scaling doesn't usually come from expanding out to hundreds of keywords. It's to find the Pareto Distribution. And maximize the sh*t out of it.
      Goes to show just how out of touch some people are, when it comes to PPC, especially Bing.

      How are you getting on yourself? Are you trying the same Clickbank + Bing Ads business model or you're onto something else? Any good results? You can PM me, if you don't want to discuss anything here.

      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I work with CRO all day every day... The one thing I see the MOST with people trying to optimize their funnels, is they focus in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      So there are generally 3 steps ( 3 conversions ) that have to take place to make a sale.
      • The Clickbait or link to the offer
      • The prequalifying enter email get free report stage
      • The sale

      Again this is generally the case. What happens is most people focus on the end stage.. they want to optimize the sale... but like has been mentioned doing so with 5 clicks a day coming across means the testing can take days - weeks - months.

      I would suggest setting the 3 stages in place, and THEN focus on the traffic ( the bait ) - Don't concern yourself with whats happening at stages 2 and 3 until you have what you feel might be ideal traffic, 100 visitors a day is a number I read in this thread.

      Once you can consistently get the numbers across to step 2 then test step 2. Get the conversions you need across that step to step 3 consistently and then and only then test the actual pitch to create sales.

      Once you have a solid traffic flow... the rest will just fall into place.
      Most of us are not building a list with this specific method (CB + Bing Ads), because by doing that you introduce even more obstacles to the sale, such as opt-in rate, email open rate, email click-through rate, which can completely kill your traffic and won't necessarily increase the conversion rate.

      And on top of that, building a list won't work in every niche. Sure, it might be ideal for the markets like making money online and weight loss, because people seem to be stuck in constantly purchasing useless products, but I'm not sure what would be the point of building a list in a niche, such as shed plans, because once you've built it, you are no longer interested in no shed plans. You could possibly promote woodworking offers to the list in the future, but it's a very limited approach.

      However, in the case of a simple personal story/review landing page, you're just dealing with the landing page CTR and that's it - if you "lose" any traffic on your landing page, then it's not relevant to your keywords/ads, simple.

      You do have a point with regards to traffic, because a lot of people don't test their setups long enough, before making changes or switching offers - I'm a victim of that myself, but it's hard to really blame anyone, because who would want to lose hundreds of dollars testing things, when you are not making any profit?

      Unfortunately, that's the reality of PPC.
      Signature

      .

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11398931].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by SERPTurbo View Post

        You do have a point with regards to traffic, because a lot of people don't test their setups long enough, before making changes or switching offers - I'm a victim of that myself, but it's hard to really blame anyone, because who would want to lose hundreds of dollars testing things, when you are not making any profit?

        Unfortunately, that's the reality of PPC.

        Long enough.. such an issue... 100 impressions makes not a test LOL BUT there are ways to put your best foot forward when it comes time to pay... I use facebook groups to drop headlines and watch click rates.. Twitter is another great place, G+ these platforms can give you the opportunity to at the very least create a " False " benchmark and it costs nothing but a small amount of time.

        The reality is however, I would gladly pay hundreds now, knowing my efforts produced thousands later
        Signature
        Tools, Content, and Strategies to Develop Your Online Commerce Business - Coming Soon
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11403079].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author boblev
    Hi

    I would go with the fear angle, something like this:


    What You Don't Know About Cholesterol Can Kill You!

    Discover the key to vital heart health and lower
    your risk of stroke without:

    Drugs
    Excessive Exercise
    or Extreme Diets


    watch the free presentation and discover how to reclaim your health,
    even if you have a family history of heart disease.


    This is only a rough draft, you have to test and tweak.

    Bob
    Signature

    "The road to success and the road to failure are almost exactly the same." Colin R. Davis

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11402320].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics