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Hi, I've just joined up with this forum and want to move into copywriting. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for me about the best course to do. I got a degree in Sociology (bad choice I know) and recent (past 10 years) experience is in Merchandising and Mystery Shopping. I also had a blog for a year but had to give it up for personal reasons.

Any advice about courses and the best way forward would be very welcome. Thanks
#copywriting #courses
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  • Hellor Suzanne Cox,


    Originally Posted by Suzanne Cox View Post

    Hi, I've just joined up with this forum and want to move into copywriting. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for me about the best course to do. I got a degree in Sociology (bad choice I know) and recent (past 10 years) experience is in Merchandising and Mystery Shopping. I also had a blog for a year but had to give it up for personal reasons.

    Any advice about courses and the best way forward would be very welcome. Thanks
    Check out this thread

    https://www.warriorforum.com/copywri...pywriting.html

    Chinchilla
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  • Profile picture of the author AffiliateRag
    Any advice about courses and the best way forward would be very welcome. Thanks
    I can only vouch for the courses I have taken myself. Matt Bacak is one of the worlds leading email marketers (won the 2019 internet marketing legend award)

    I took his Short Email Copy Course. It was by far and away the most complete and comprehensive training I've seen on the subject. You not only get training but you get tons of materials (like swipe files, powerful phrases to use, closer statements etc). This course completely changed the way I think about writing copy. You'll even get advise from one of Hollywood's most in demand story tellers.
    I'm sure there are cheaper options out there but you get what you pay for.

    The course can be found if you google EPC Institute. It's a pricey course but so worth it
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Originally Posted by Suzanne Cox View Post

    Hi, I've just joined up with this forum and want to move into copywriting. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for me about the best course to do. I got a degree in Sociology (bad choice I know) and recent (past 10 years) experience is in Merchandising and Mystery Shopping. I also had a blog for a year but had to give it up for personal reasons.

    Any advice about courses and the best way forward would be very welcome. Thanks
    My advice after 40 years in marketing/copywriting - you don't need to buy a course.

    Read the books from the copywriter greats of the past.

    Schwab, Ogilvy, Hopkins, Collier...

    all the courses are just stuff that comes from these guys.

    Everybody wants to sell you a course - everybody wants to tell you they have some "new" crap...

    it's all in the books that have been written already from years ago.

    I know my answer might not be popular, but I hate seeing people spend money on stuff they don't need to spend money on.

    Study the books from the authors I mentioned and you'll know everything you need to know.
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    • Profile picture of the author SARubin
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      My advice after 40 years in marketing/copywriting - you don't need to buy a course.

      Read the books from the copywriter greats of the past.

      Schwab, Ogilvy, Hopkins, Collier...

      all the courses are just stuff that comes from these guys.

      Everybody wants to sell you a course - everybody wants to tell you they have some "new" crap...

      it's all in the books that have been written already from years ago.

      I know my answer might not be popular,
      but I hate seeing people spend money on stuff they don't need to spend money on.

      Study the books from the authors I mentioned and you'll know everything you need to know.

      Your answer is popular with me Max.

      Years ago I spent many thousands of dollars on courses and classes, trying to learn copywriting the "right" way. And about 90% of it was wasted money.

      My best education came from studying the old masters, and then applying their teaching with the trial and error of selling my own stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Leonard Picari
    "How To" copywriting courses/books are expensive, so if you don't have much money to spend, start hand-writing the best ads (classic ads) at least 10 times each, and you'll see improvements. There is a website that has classic ads (swiped.co) and you can see them for free.
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  • Profile picture of the author webbie
    There are some great ones. Anything by Gary Benzinvenga, Dan Kennedy...

    The Accelerated Six-Figure Copywriting Program from AWAI.com (Mark Ford) is a great course. Got it myself several years ago and continue to benefit from the content.
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  • The boom in online courses rn is mostly savvy marketers repurposin' key expertise from the past for the benefit of people too lazy to Google.

    But who wants to go without food for a year jus' to watch endless vids of Clued Up Millennial Hustlers wavin' their arms around?

    Not Moi!

    I would rather spend the money on alcohol.

    An' like Maxo & The Rubester say, it don't take long to check out where all the original source material comes from.

    I jus' Googled 'classic copywriting books' -- an' all the big names you see here on WF time an' time again are there.

    Top link from this search is this one, which pretty much mirrors the names already thrust before eyeballs for ZERO DOLLARS in this comment trail.

    Trick then is to take the first inspirin' ideah you discover from your first read, an' put it into action by writin' sumthin' out.

    So ... let's assoom you take advantage of David Ogeluvvie's killah quote 'bout headlines ...

    "On the average, five times as many people read the headline as read the body copy. When you have written your headline, you have spent eighty cents out of your dollar."

    Aaaaawkay -- so now head back ovah to all them copywritin' courses offerin' to make you bankrupt in exchange for recycled "gold dust" someone else way smarter than them actschwlly wrote out in like 1572.

    Choose THE ONE which combines the most astronomic fee with the lousiest pitch.

    Next ... rewrite all the headlines so the course sounds MORE LIKE one for which you prepared to destitoot your ass!

    Then call up whoevah is sellin' the course an' make 'em an offer for what you wrote.

    Meantime, jus' wanna put in a shoutout for a cool noo cop show comin' up on Netflix in the spring.

    Here's the trailer ...

    Modern day forensics are no match for trailblazing detective work. When two maverick sheriffs from the Wild West find themselves transported to contemporary Manhattan, crime gangs reel from an onslaught of brains, guts -- and pistols. Join Maxo & The Rubester as they take on outlaws and drink every Starbucks dry in their quest to make it back home to their sweethearts and mules.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      The boom in online courses rn is mostly savvy marketers repurposin' key expertise from the past for the benefit of people too lazy to Google.

      But who wants to go without food for a year jus' to watch endless vids of Clued Up Millennial Hustlers wavin' their arms around?

      Not Moi!

      I would rather spend the money on alcohol.

      An' like Maxo & The Rubester say, it don't take long to check out where all the original source material comes from.

      I jus' Googled 'classic copywriting books' -- an' all the big names you see here on WF time an' time again are there.

      Top link from this search is this one, which pretty much mirrors the names already thrust before eyeballs for ZERO DOLLARS in this comment trail.

      Trick then is to take the first inspirin' ideah you discover from your first read, an' put it into action by writin' sumthin' out.

      So ... let's assoom you take advantage of David Ogeluvvie's killah quote 'bout headlines ...

      "On the average, five times as many people read the headline as read the body copy. When you have written your headline, you have spent eighty cents out of your dollar."

      Aaaaawkay -- so now head back ovah to all them copywritin' courses offerin' to make you bankrupt in exchange for recycled "gold dust" someone else way smarter than them actschwlly wrote out in like 1572.

      Choose THE ONE which combines the most astronomic fee with the lousiest pitch.

      Next ... rewrite all the headlines so the course sounds MORE LIKE one for which you prepared to destitoot your ass!

      Then call up whoevah is sellin' the course an' make 'em an offer for what you wrote.

      Meantime, jus' wanna put in a shoutout for a cool noo cop show comin' up on Netflix in the spring.

      Here's the trailer ...

      Modern day forensics are no match for trailblazing detective work. When two maverick sheriffs from the Wild West find themselves transported to contemporary Manhattan, crime gangs reel from an onslaught of brains, guts -- and pistols. Join Maxo & The Rubester as they take on outlaws and drink every Starbucks dry in their quest to make it back home to their sweethearts and mules.
      Princess, you know you could never lose me.

      But I've read that saying a dozen times yesterday at Facebook Copywriting pages.

      You lost me at...


      HMMMM. Then, a critique as to why the reader was lost??? I guess it means they lost INTEREST. Or ATTENTION.

      My whole take on the copy writing learning, after reading, studying and APPLYING all said classics, and after over analyzing successful copy for decades now...

      is...

      When YOU (as a copy writer) lose your reader/viewer/listener's A T T E N T I O N,

      it is a big FAIL

      And an interesting note, that almost all the experienced writers of copy here have spent a lot of time reading, studying and applying the lessons they've had over the years too.

      As a Biz-Op, a way to get started for nothing, make an easy and quick 6 figure a year income simply writing...it may be as close to a scam as a legit thing gets.

      As a career, or as a SKILL, to be applied to one's efforts, for himself or others, very few skills can hold a candle up to a writer who holds a reader's attention.

      Just saying,

      Maybe start with "You lost me at..." and one will see rapid improvement in their skills.

      GordonJ
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      • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


        You lost me at...
        Sweet horizons always ansah WHY
        or prove how rn I don't gotta die.
        Fyootyure sings, you gotta go do.
        Ain't gowin' noplace spesh without you.

        So, yeah, as we crawl about the place as supah blemished mortals for sures, locked outta the glories of all Heavens on a history says so ticket -- ain't it cool how I can max out on choice 'bout shampoo?

        "Ethereal Jamboree," says Moi, sniffin' on the stuff. "Let's hope you live up to the name bcs I need real help in the hairdo areah rn."

        Feels kinda gloopy -- but I wanna smooth it on, see what happens.

        Label read OK, an' I liked the container stylin'.

        Kinda pricy, but yeah -- I get the Ethereal Jamboree effect.

        Smells delish.


        This ain't jus' recycled soap been melted down by press-ganged bums.

        For sure ... it is exotic.

        An' I remembah the label now.

        Your Soul Is Alive.

        Which is real cool bcs ima speakin' to Chloe later.

        An' I got a mountain to climb with her.

        So I need evrythin' I got.


        Lemme jus' rub on my head some more now.

        Smooth it in.

        Smell it.

        Feel it.

        Spit it out bcs yanno ... showah talk.


        Gimme a sec.

        bcs this is complicated.

        Gotta figure what ima say to her.



        *it's a shower scene -- but 'steada a B&W psycho horror show, here's full color in actschwaan as horizons open out. A gal & her shampoo. A thorny time imminent. But Your Soul Is Alive as you streak Ethereal Jamboree through your hair an' figure your next steps. C'mon, Princess, you can make it through.*



        Findin' people in evryday places, where their hearts and minds seek to define their own succor.

        Findin' people, an' addin' value to their journey, kinda thing.

        Here's what speaks.


        Jus' gotta hope Chloe ain't been shoppin' at Thumbscrews 4U, I guess.

        I always envisioned THEY WILL BEND as a dream strapline for a buncha anti-arthritis supplements targetin' senior yogah gals, but Thumbscrews 4U got there first on an uberdom ticket.

        So she rules in that fyooture, I guess.

        Hey, but her hair is a frickin' mess so what do I care?
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  • Agree Agree and Agree!

    This is from me who over the decades spent goodness knows what on copywriting courses.

    (note from Accountant - "Steve, close to $150,000").

    Didn't do me any harm because I learned a lot and made a great living.

    I enjoyed chasing the "big secrets" to copywriting Utopia.

    But as Max, Rubin and The Princess said earlier probably about 95% of this "knowledge" would have been gleamed entirely from books - total cost around $100.00.

    Time and time again I read a book and realized the same techniques were in the high cost courses.

    One of the best books is - "How to Write A Good Advertisement" - by Vic Schwab.

    (a complete copywriting course which is totally relevant today, tomorrow and forever- for about $10.00 with an astonishingly brilliant collection of headlines - 100 - I've swiped many which skyrocked the response to my Ads).

    Just 2 quick points - You might find it difficult to find a bazzing book on the art of writing "Bullets" - (an essential asset in the wonderful world of copywriting) but you can build up a swipe file - deconstruct them - and you'll discover how it's done.

    Many say their copywriting careers would have been powerfully accelerated and put in the fast lane if they'd had an ace mentor.

    Beware you don't spend a King's Ransom trying to find one - many are not shy on their fees and it may take a while to recoup the costs.

    You could start by seeking out a fellow studious - determined to be successful - "beginner" copywriter to bounce ideas and critique each others wondrous words.

    Often just a few "easy" changes can make a huge difference to your results.

    And it won't have cost thousands to find out.


    Steve
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  • Hi Promotional,

    Yes, Mel virtually "invented" bullets or as he coined them "fascinations" - like you said - what a great word!

    I've got a swipe file crammed full of his ballistic bullets.

    Halbert, Carlton, Makepeace and Settle also did/do them well.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author SARubin
      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      Hellor Steve The Copywriter

      Look no further than Mel Martin. He was a master when it came to writing bullets or "Fascinations" as he put it.

      Here are two resources about bullets

      Mel Martin -- the Deadliest Bullet Copywriter (Space Ad #14: "Practical Golf")

      How to Write Stronger, More Effective Bullets That Your Clients and Readers Will Love

      Chinchilla
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Hi Promotional,

      Yes, Mel virtually "invented" bullets or as he coined them "fascinations" - like you said - what a great word!

      My swipe file is crammed full of his ballistic bullets.

      Halbert, Carlton, Makepeace and Settle did/do them well.

      Steve

      Almost ashamed to admit that I never heard of Mel Martin until about 3 years ago.

      The first ad I saw from him was the practical golf ad that Chinchilla mentioned. And fascinations aside, when I saw the headline it blew me away.

      Talk about a masterful job at calling out an exact target market.
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      • Hellor SARubin,

        Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

        Almost ashamed to admit that I never heard of Mel Martin until about 3 years ago.

        The first ad I saw from him was the practical golf ad that Chinchilla mentioned. And fascinations aside, when I saw the headline it blew me away.

        Talk about a masterful job at calling out an exact target market.
        Because of Mel, is why I own all of Marty's BOTTOM LINE Book Sets, as well as THE BIG BLACK BOOK. Years later Brain Kurtz gifted me a copy of Breakthrough Advertising. (The real hardbound version)

        It showed up at my front door, and I had no idea what was in the package or who it was from, until I opened it up and read Brian's note.

        I eventually got my hands on "The Brilliance Breakthrough: How to Talk and Write So That People Will Never Forget You" workbook Gene also put out, and frankly, it is better than Breakthrough Advertising. My opinion.

        Chinchilla
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  • Eons ago I "heard" about Breakthrough Advertising when it was out of print.

    (legend has it - it was the most stolen book in the US libraries)

    I had to wait 10 years to get a copy.

    It was a landmark day when it arrived.

    It felt that every sentence was an advanced "thesis" on copywriting, advertising and marketing (took me 5 plus reads and copious notes - to really "get" it - to say the least it made a massive difference to my career).

    You can "stun" clients when you give them the very best solutions to their copywriting / marketing dilemma's.

    A few years later I managed to get a second hand copy of "The Brilliance Breakthrough."

    More stunned clients saying, "Steve, how the bleep bleep do you know the answers to this?"

    Not wanting to seem like a surreal soothsayer I have to confess and say - "Got it all from a couple of books."

    Coughs, leaving out the 2,000 hours studying them.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    A very mundane and prosaic post (to make the excellence of the preceding ones shine more): Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales letter breaks down pretty well the... sales letter. Combine that with the old masters and Kennedy's letters and emails and you're ahead.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    In addition to the books mentioned above, you can buy Dan Kennedy's course on copywriting on e-bay for $20 or so on DVD.

    But in this case, I agree with the others. The old classics on advertising are the best ways to learn how to write copy. Copywriting may be the only selling skill you can learn well from a book.

    Anything by John Caples, Victor Schuab, Claude Hopkins, Eugene Schwartz, Joseph Sugarman...

    Expensive? Some of them. But for a couple of hundred dollars, you can get a dozen of these books and get started.

    Any three of these books by these authors will be worth far more than any one copywriting course.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richmark
    Dan Kennedy was pretty darn goo if you ask me.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by Suzanne Cox View Post

    Hi, I've just joined up with this forum and want to move into copywriting. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for me about the best course to do. I got a degree in Sociology (bad choice I know) and recent (past 10 years) experience is in Merchandising and Mystery Shopping. I also had a blog for a year but had to give it up for personal reasons.

    Any advice about courses and the best way forward would be very welcome. Thanks
    This advice BECAUSE you have your degree in Sociology. And it may resonate with you more than the standard fare of writing copy.

    Used to buy it for a few bux on ebay, but now it has gotten pricey. Although a copy at Amazon is selling for only 45 dollars, a good deal.

    The work is by Barry Neil Kaufman.

    It is, POWER DIALOGUES, The Ultimate System for Personal Change.

    It is about non judgmental influence, persuasion via revelation, a Socratic method of asking the right questions.

    And in writing copy, you will find that IF you ask the right questions while writing the copy and have clear answers ready for your reader, it is the golden key to successful copywriting. Few have heard of this work. It is the Aikido of persuasion, copywriting and salesmanship in print.

    GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author customs
    Echoing the advice given before:

    Dan Kennedy's books are good. You don't necessarily need his big paid products at the beginning of your journey.

    John Carlton's blog is a goldmine of wisdom and practical info. His Kick-Ass Copywriting Secrets and Simple Writing System are top-notch products (SWS is especially great for beginners).

    AWAI's Accelerated thingy is useful, but covers basics only, with a hefty price tag attached (however, fundamentals is what you need to master first, anyway, to have a "feel" for killer advertising).

    For email stuff look no further than Ben Settle. The guy is a genius. You will get a lot of value from his daily emails alone. His paid products is completely another bag of burritos, though (sane, useful, sobering and pricey stuff). Not for a newbie copywriter definitely.

    Now, any courses, books, etc. will only get you so far. Yes, fundamentals are important.

    But to become a copywriter (or writer) you have to write.

    Choose an offer known for high conversion rates (much better if you have a copy), watch/read it 10 times, and write your very own sales letter pitching the offer (or email sequence). Make a simple website with opt-in/sales letter and drive some traffic to it (Google Ads, Facebook, whatever...).

    You will learn a lot with a very small investment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Re: Wannabe copywriters

    Some are good at learning by deconstructing existing copy.

    Others are good at ingesting mass quantities of information and making sense of it all.

    But most wannabes need a structured approach to learning. For them, courses are good. Mentorship is even better.

    Alex
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  • My copywritin' course would also teach hair an' nails.


    Bcs if'n you gowin' on YouToob to make with the promotional gooroo spiel, it is helpful you don't look like no frickin' dawg.
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  • Profile picture of the author paslore
    Thnaks for the discussion I was looking for some info about copywriting
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  • Profile picture of the author depotgang
    Dan Kennedy is legendary

    I learned from John Carlton and Frank Kern.

    Copy makes all the difference....its a great skill to have, I am a traffic guy and my partner does the copy. I could not sell anything without him nor him without me.

    Master copyrighting and you can get involved in some amazing JV's
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    • Profile picture of the author JPs copy
      The best Dan Kennedy program I've ever listened to is 7 Figure Copywriting Academy. It's an AWAI program. I've listened to it several times, and there are still things I take away from it.
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  • Jus' to say, gotta figure how Corona is already givin' practical convention a way big smacko in the chops.

    An' when this all ovah, stuff gonna be diffrent.

    Like how when Sigourney Weaver an' her space crew drifted off to sleep, all primed for fyooture wakefulness fulla purpose ... only to discovah the worst kinda food poisonin' scenario bustin' outta Stomach Central.

    Which is why evrywan gotta bring their offahs up to speed.

    What you wrote last year prolly had value ... but is it relevant now?

    I mention this bcs Claude Hopkins really wants I have *ahem* more anatomical substance floppin' around my gusset than i actschwlly got.

    Smart guy, but he kinda expects all othah smart guys're like ... guys.

    So if he dowin' his stuff now, less'n he repurposed his POV to take in Goil Copy Persons, 50% of his audience gonna switch off.

    That's the science.

    Which means today's copy gooroos, marketers, whatevah gotta watch for a similah mismatch between perennial expertise an' Jurassically Parked voice.

    Hey, plus also ... we gotta smoochie more.

    (That is no kinda opinion btw -- it is a frickin' ORDAH!)
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  • Profile picture of the author Carlo Sala
    Hey new copynerd, not at all I do think Sociology is fascinating and surely haves a lot to do with marketing and human behavior.
    I've done the Copywriting Academy by Anik Singal which does open your eyes, not so much step by set, but you do learn about all the different branches this copy world haves. Or at least that's how I look at courses, not to solve my entire life and make me a millionaire but to broaden my perspective and see what others are doing and teaching.
    And for books: Influence by Robert Cialdini (Classic and you'll understand some long-lasting principles), Copywriting Secrets by Jim Edwards (Really new and up to date, this one haves a lot more of step by steps which are really powerful), Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely (how irrational we actually are but somehow in a predictable way, and currently reading Save the Cat by Blake Snyder (About Story Telling/Screenwriting).
    Not much but they are surely powerful, they got me to do my first sales and some nice tools, I believe more in principles than generic templates and magic formulas.
    Hope it helped,
    Pura Vida.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by Suzanne Cox View Post

    Hi, I've just joined up with this forum and want to move into copywriting. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for me about the best course to do. I got a degree in Sociology (bad choice I know) and recent (past 10 years) experience is in Merchandising and Mystery Shopping. I also had a blog for a year but had to give it up for personal reasons.

    Any advice about courses and the best way forward would be very welcome. Thanks
    Of all the MasterClasses I've taken (over a dozen) the new one by Neil deGrasse Tyson is the best for a copywriter. Other storytelling classes can be of use and helpful, but to understand BIAS, and how we think (or mostly don't)...can go a long way to helping you become a very profitable copywriter in the shortest amount of time.

    His class, alone, is worth the cost of admission.

    GordonJ
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