He was a bum on the streets, I ask "Where do you live at?" He said...

21 replies
"You may ask where I live, but you may not ask 'Where do you live at'..you see, AT is a preposition, and does not come at the end of a sentence."

He was a bum. Bums were "homeless" before the word "homeless" was invented.
He corrected my grammar.
I was so impressed I bought him dinner that day.
Turns out he was a University Professor, down on his luck.
I bring this up, for those who write ad copy.
Proper grammar is nice.
But unless you're butchering the language, you're not really writing copy.
Keep in mine, it's not the WORDS you use, but THE RESPONSE you get.
Yes, AT is a preposition and should not come at the end of a sentence.
But when you're trying to tell a story, and SELL your product or service, the OFFER must shine, not your grammar.
Just thinking.
#bum #streets #where do you live at
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    From Cheers:
    Sam: Haven't you got customers to be waiting on?
    Diane: You ended that sentence with a preposition.
    Sam: Haven't you got customers to be waiting on, mullet-head?
    Signature
    TOP TIP: To browse the forum like a Pro, select "View Classic" from the drop-down menu under your user name.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582054].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      From Cheers:
      Sam: Haven't you got customers to be waiting on?
      Diane: You ended that sentence with a preposition.
      Sam: Haven't you got customers to be waiting on, mullet-head?



      YOU GAVE ME A GOOD LAUGH THIS MORNING, THANKS.

      LINWOOD
      Signature

      Linwood Austin, Copywriter, Business Loans. Phone: 801-895-9598
      http://theadmansdiary.com/business-l...al-for-growth/

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582183].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author strategic seo services
    Banned
    I think it's ok to break the rules of grammar in ad copy, especially when your trying to deliver a message in a certain way, or grab your audience's attention. Ad copy is like art; it doesn't have to follow the rules.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582057].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by strategic seo services View Post

      I think it's ok to break the rules of grammar in ad copy, especially when your trying to deliver a message in a certain way, or grab your audience's attention. Ad copy is like art; it doesn't have to follow the rules.
      Hear, Here

      I remember a professor in college saying something like "Write in the language that your audience speaks." He was explaining how we rednecks differed from normal human beings.

      I like that.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582106].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

    But unless you're butchering the language, you're not really writing copy.
    Sure, there's no need to write with the grammar, prose, and structure that would make your English teacher swoon with delight...

    Like Mark Twain said "If we all learned to talk the way we learn to write, everyone would stutter."


    But dangling participles and prepositions aside, the writing still needs to make sense and be readable.

    When someone sends me a message saying... "i write good copies for you reader that sell, hire me now for moneys and I write for you."

    Well, how can I possibly take that person seriously?
    Signature

    For Freelance Writers Only... Free advertising for your writing related services - Copywriters Forum

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582120].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      You got the Andy Warhol of writing and you turned him down?

      Originally Posted by SARubin View Post


      When someone sends me a message saying... "i write good copies for you reader that sell, hire me now for moneys and I write for you."

      Well, how can I possibly take that person seriously?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582139].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SARubin
        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        You got the Andy Warhol of writing and you turned him down?
        Well, now that you put it into perspective for me, DABK, I might need to rethink my standards a little bit.

        Maybe I should get back to this guy and hire him?
        In an effort to talk like, and connect with my target audience, how does this response sound...?

        "Yes, you write copies me and I hire you write me copies."


        (hmm, I might need to tone down the proper grammar a bit more before sending it to him?)
        Signature

        For Freelance Writers Only... Free advertising for your writing related services - Copywriters Forum

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582147].message }}
  • Hellor AMW,

    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

    "You may ask where I live, but you may not ask 'Where do you live at'..you see, AT is a preposition, and does not come at the end of a sentence."

    He was a bum. Bums were "homeless" before the word "homeless" was invented.
    He corrected my grammar.
    I was so impressed I bought him dinner that day.
    Turns out he was a University Professor, down on his luck.
    I bring this up, for those who write ad copy.
    Proper grammar is nice.
    But unless you're butchering the language, you're not really writing copy.
    Keep in mine, it's not the WORDS you use, but THE RESPONSE you get.
    Yes, AT is a preposition and should not come at the end of a sentence.
    But when you're trying to tell a story, and SELL your product or service, the OFFER must shine, not your grammar.
    Just thinking.
    Have you been looking over my shoulder?

    I'm reading Herschell Gordon Lewis' book Power Copywriting again. I'm on chapter 2, page 38, "Power Communication With Numbers and Punctuation Marks," sub topic: When and how much to underline.

    Perfect post timing again, sir.

    Chinchilla
    Signature
    SEO Content Marketing Writer
    Online Writing Portfolio
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582181].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      Hellor AMW,



      Have you been looking over my shoulder?

      I'm reading Herschell Gordon Lewis' book Power Copywriting again. I'm on chapter 2, page 38, "Power Communication With Numbers and Punctuation Marks," sub topic: When and how much to underline.

      Perfect post timing again, sir.

      Chinchilla

      Is Lewis still alive? I remember him from the 80's when I was one of his competitors.

      How many times have you read his book?

      Feel free to call me sometime, after 10 a.m. and catch me up on things.

      Linwood
      Signature

      Linwood Austin, Copywriter, Business Loans. Phone: 801-895-9598
      http://theadmansdiary.com/business-l...al-for-growth/

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582184].message }}
      • Hellor AMW,
        Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

        Is Lewis still alive? I remember him from the 80's when I was one of his competitors.

        How many times have you read his book?

        Feel free to call me sometime, after 10 a.m. and catch me up on things.

        Linwood
        Herschell past back in 2016. That was a sad time for me. He was one of my mentors.

        Power Copywriting? I lost count. I'm constantly picking it up. Too many times to remember.

        I'm addicted to his teaching style. So much so I invested in all of his books and courses. But, nothing from his horror film days.

        Chinchilla
        Signature
        SEO Content Marketing Writer
        Online Writing Portfolio
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582199].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
          Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

          Hellor AMW,

          Herschell past back in 2016. That was a sad time for me. He was one of my mentors.

          Power Copywriting? I lost count. I'm constantly picking it up. Too many times to remember.

          I'm addicted to his teaching style. So much so I invested in all of his books and courses. But, nothing from his horror film days.

          Chinchilla

          IT'S GOOD TO HAVE HEROS. CLYDE BEDELL WAS MY COPYWRITING HERO.

          HERE IS WHAT I WROTE ABOUT HIM...
          https://diaryofanadman.wordpress.com...ng-that-sells/
          Signature

          Linwood Austin, Copywriter, Business Loans. Phone: 801-895-9598
          http://theadmansdiary.com/business-l...al-for-growth/

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582213].message }}
          • Hellor AMW,
            Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

            IT'S GOOD TO HAVE HEROS. CLYDE BEDELL WAS MY COPYWRITING HERO.

            HERE IS WHAT I WROTE ABOUT HIM...
            https://diaryofanadman.wordpress.com...ng-that-sells/
            Oh yeah I remember that post.

            Speaking of Clyde I just picked up a rare book he wrote, "Shoppers Special by Clyde Bedell" which will be added to my Bedell library.

            Chinchilla
            Signature
            SEO Content Marketing Writer
            Online Writing Portfolio
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582217].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
              Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

              Hellor AMW,

              Oh yeah I remember that post.

              Speaking of Clyde I just picked up a rare book he wrote, "Shoppers Special by Clyde Bedell" which will be added to my Bedell library.

              Chinchilla

              GIVE ME A BRIEF ABOUT "SHOPPERS SPECIAL"...
              as I've never heard of it. But I want to know more.

              Linwood
              Signature

              Linwood Austin, Copywriter, Business Loans. Phone: 801-895-9598
              http://theadmansdiary.com/business-l...al-for-growth/

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582342].message }}
  • Anywan tries correctin' my grammar gets a smack in the chops.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582367].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

    "You may ask where I live, but you may not ask 'Where do you live at'..you see, AT is a preposition, and does not come at the end of a sentence."

    He was a bum. Bums were "homeless" before the word "homeless" was invented.
    He corrected my grammar.
    I was so impressed I bought him dinner that day.
    Turns out he was a University Professor, down on his luck.
    I bring this up, for those who write ad copy.
    Proper grammar is nice.
    But unless you're butchering the language, you're not really writing copy.
    Keep in mine, it's not the WORDS you use, but THE RESPONSE you get.
    Yes, AT is a preposition and should not come at the end of a sentence.
    But when you're trying to tell a story, and SELL your product or service, the OFFER must shine, not your grammar.
    Just thinking.
    Einstein, disguised as Robin Hood with his memories in a trunk
    Passed this way an hour ago with his friend, a jealous monk
    Now he looked so immaculately frightful as he bummed a cigarette
    And he went off sniffing drainpipes and reciting the alphabet
    You would not think to look at him, but he was famous long ago
    For playing the electric violin on Desolation Row


    It doesn't take much for a genius to become a bum. And quickly, at that.

    For many years, I've had three words written on all my computers,

    STIMULUS (Me)

    EMOTIONAL (Them)

    RESPONSE (Intersection controlled by ME)

    And to get to the Intersection, whatever worked; grammar, spelling, STRUNK AND WHITE be damned. But if I were selling to Strunk or White, then I follow their rules.

    GordonJ
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582389].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      Einstein, disguised as Robin Hood with his memories in a trunk
      Passed this way an hour ago with his friend, a jealous monk
      Now he looked so immaculately frightful as he bummed a cigarette
      And he went off sniffing drainpipes and reciting the alphabet
      You would not think to look at him, but he was famous long ago
      For playing the electric violin on Desolation Row


      It doesn't take much for a genius to become a bum. And quickly, at that.

      For many years, I've had three words written on all my computers,

      STIMULUS (Me)

      EMOTIONAL (Them)

      RESPONSE (Intersection controlled by ME)

      And to get to the Intersection, whatever worked; grammar, spelling, STRUNK AND WHITE be damned. But if I were selling to Strunk or White, then I follow their rules.


      GordonJ

      Dear Gordon... can you expound on those three words more... I think there is something there and I don't want to miss it.

      Linwood
      Signature

      Linwood Austin, Copywriter, Business Loans. Phone: 801-895-9598
      http://theadmansdiary.com/business-l...al-for-growth/

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582399].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

        Dear Gordon... can you expound on those three words more... I think there is something there and I don't want to miss it.

        Linwood
        When I want to influence someone, I begin at the END. Exactly what do I want them to do. That is the Response. In writing direct response copy, that is often an order, a sale, or further call to action.

        Whatever it is I want them to do, I begin with a clear idea and make sure THEY have a clear idea on what to do.

        So, I know the RESULT I want. Then I think of it in Emotional terms. What emotion will evoke that response? Am I hitting the right points?

        Then back to the beginning. The Stimulus.

        I know what response, what result I WANT.

        So, first thing...from WHOM? Who would, should or could respond to this, who is my TARGET? Where do I find them? How do I create the INTERSECTION where the Target meets my copy? Which leads to the media choice that has the best chance of being the right place.

        Knowing I (or my words) am the STIMULUS, and WHO and WHAT I want them to do, then the copy needs to evoke those emotions most likely to get to the action I want them to take. The efficacy of my copy to do its job depends on:

        Right TARGET selection,
        Creating the INTERSECTION, or choosing it via media.

        Using words which will resonate and stimulate, to further them to the conclusion.

        Example.

        Joint Pain. Lots of that. But too wide a market, although most would TARGET it as the market, I'd prefer to niche it down.

        So, as a real life example, I chose GOLFERS. Then further segmented to Senior Golfers and then to Men and Women. Started with targeting FL golfers in the Winter.

        I wanted them to send for a free sample of a pain gel. Along with the sample comes an offer, for a one time low cost or a super discount on an auto ship or multiple buy.

        How would they respond? Via a toll free number.

        Since the math allowed, I could send a direct response letter, there were lists available of Senior Golfers, segmented with Men and Women. I could choose states, so I controlled the media and the TIME of the promotion.

        Whereas many selling Joint Pain relief would write the usual copy, pain, pain, pain...

        The promotions featured either men or women GOLFERS specifically, and was slugged for the state. So, TX, AZ and FL would be slightly different in look (pic used, cactus in AZ, palm tree in FL TX flag for Tx).

        In testing, I found including the free sample to be a winner. Then it was just getting them to order.

        When I create a promotion, I start at the end with the RESPONSE I want, and try to figure out the EMOTIONS they might have which would evoke it. THEN, I create the Stimulus, keeping in mind the TIME, the MEDIA and how I want them to reach my intersection.

        It may not work for everyone, but it has proven valuable to me over the decades.

        STIMULUS-EMOTIONAL-RESPONSE

        Thanks for asking,

        GordonJ
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582419].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582461].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      Gordon, Wow, just WOW. Your the man!
      Thanks Jeffery, last time I heard that, I was looking in the mirror. HA.

      So, as a follow up. Let me tell you what a winning headline turned out to be.

      Sure, we were selling a pain gel, so we thought that PAIN would be the big emotion, right?

      The best headline turned out to be:

      (Picture of a little boy with a 50ish lady in golf attire, clubs near by {Grandpa when mailed to men})

      NANA, when you play golf you really smell old.

      See, back then Ben Gay and all those types of products had a definite smell to them, but we introduced a fragrance free, all natural pain gel. Every Nana and Grandpa in the country could relate to that little boy.

      And now, that I'm older than those people were, I too don't want to "smell old".

      Sometimes, we have to get inside the heads of our prospects, deeper than we think.

      Stimulus EMOTION Response.

      GordonJ
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11582463].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    John Carlton said he's still getting royalty checks from
    a golfer ad he wrote 25 years ago.

    This week he said so.

    He purposedly made a spelling error in the headline
    and the client ran it.

    Best,
    Ewen
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11583566].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      John Carlton said he's still getting royalty checks from
      a golfer ad he wrote 25 years ago.

      This week he said so.

      He purposedly made a spelling error in the headline
      and the client ran it.

      Best,
      Ewen
      Want to make a fortune from golf?

      Distance is the key to profits.
      Distance is the clue.
      Distance is the drum and fife.
      And any club will do.

      Of course, having backends of balls, gloves, specialty clubs, clothes, instruction, travel, and deals doesn't hurt any.

      Amazing thing some of the smaller companies have been around that long while some of the bigger ones, just (like my drives) faded away. I love the small CT company that sells illegal golf balls. Year after year of profits, who sez cheaters never win?

      GordonJ
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11583689].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics