Is this pushing it too far?

by Asher
21 replies
Hello esteemed copywriters,

I have ventured into my second (or third) copywriting
letter and well... do you think this is pushing it? It's
definitely not your run-of-the-mill letter (I don't know
what that means) but I'd appreciate your points of view
on it.

http://www.warriorforum.com/test-for...ml#post1391497

You are either going to love it or hate it. Will it score or will
it dunk?



Asher

EDIT: Forgot to mention this is meant to be a WSO offer.
#pushing
  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    It's been my experience that just about nothing is over the top. I'd give it a shot.

    It was an eyebrow raiser, by the way. Enjoyed reading it.
    Thank you, Ken. Writing odd copy like this
    is a fun thing to do =)

    Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    Headline and lead is very confusing. Which isn't a good thing when you take into account what you're trying to sell.

    Colm
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  • Profile picture of the author mathiaslebesby
    You got my attention. What is your price?
    Signature

    Hi. :)

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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Completely missed me Worse I would never ever buy.

    Why?

    I kept asking myself - If he has these killer proven to work headlines why wouldn't he use one? So not only is it kind of wacked it does exactly what you don't want. It lowers credibility in the product itself.

    Just my two cents.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        This type of game playing approach may well work with those who are browsing around for entertainment. Somepme looking for a useful WSO will probably leave before they finish the countdowns.

        It's imaginative - but a bit much for my taste. But that's only my taste.

        If you want to be creative, have the courage to use your creations. It may be wise not to use creativity for every line, though.

        kay

        Yuck - those men are gross!
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world of one dog.
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        • Profile picture of the author Asher
          Originally Posted by colmodwyer View Post

          Headline and lead is very confusing. Which isn't a good thing when you take into account what you're trying to sell.

          Colm
          I'm not sure what you mean by headline and lead
          is very confusing. Care to elaborate?

          Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

          In my opinion , it's a mess.

          I don't really get the stick figure and it is a distracting
          turn off.

          When it comes to this subject matter I don't think
          this is a good approach.
          Thanks for the honest thoughts, Paul. Is there
          any way you think I can improve on it?

          Originally Posted by mathiaslebesby View Post

          You got my attention. What is your price?
          Great~ I'm considering 2 tiers. One at $7 for first
          10 buyers before I pop it at $17. What do you
          think?

          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Completely missed me Worse I would never ever buy.

          Why?

          I kept asking myself - If he has these killer proven to work headlines why wouldn't he use one? So not only is it kind of wacked it does exactly what you don't want. It lowers credibility in the product itself.

          Just my two cents.
          I actually *did* use a title and I placed it in
          the title of the thread itself. With regards to the
          headline, I'll admit *laugh* I didn't turn to using
          my resource.

          I wrote this down on a piece of paper on a whim
          somewhere and decided to stick with it (pun
          intended) before I change it later, better to get
          started & have something to work with, imho.

          I *meant* for it to be a little whacked... just to
          get the attention required

          Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting View Post

          Goodness sake!

          Another train wreck.

          It's bloody awful!

          Words fail me (again).

          I've got this feeling there's a
          few Warriors out to yank our chains
          lately.
          Heh, give me a chance to grow, would ja?

          I'd love to get some advise from you as
          I've seen you give lots of great advice
          to some others

          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          This type of game playing approach may well work with those who are browsing around for entertainment. Somepme looking for a useful WSO will probably leave before they finish the countdowns.

          It's imaginative - but a bit much for my taste. But that's only my taste.

          If you want to be creative, have the courage to use your creations. It may be wise not to use creativity for every line, though.

          kay

          Yuck - those men are gross!
          Thanks, Kay! You got me, hook, line and
          sinker. I'm trying for the game playing, fun
          approach rather than the typical offer.

          Appreciate the part about the countdown,
          I inserted that on a whim as well. I might
          just remove it since the letter could do
          pretty well without it.

          I'll rework the headline and title so
          everything's a little more cohesive.

          I'd like to know what you meant by being
          wise not to use creativity for every line,
          I was trying to be a little clever but it may
          have been a little too much... is that what
          you mean?

          (yes, indeed, those men are indeed gross.
          I've seen stuff that would make Arnie - in his
          younger days - eyes bulge wide open )







          Thanks for all the thoughts and comments, I take
          it all seriously and will begin on re-doing this. I'd
          probably stick with the stick men (pun intended)
          as that's my stick trick (again).

          Everything else, however, can be changed.

          Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Why wouldn't you just say

    Pick Your Hitman

    There's an idea here somewhere but it's struggling to be heard. What exactly are the stickmen bringing to the pitch? You're selling "Killer Titles" and yet you use the confusing and ordinary "If you had a choice which 1 of these men is to be your hired killer?" (And what bodybuilding has to do with "hired killers" I'll never know.)

    Kill everything above "A Killer Headline Title" and go with something like

    "Headless Copy Found in Internet Marketing Backwoods"

    followed by the existing copy -
    It's the title that gets the clicks, it's the headline that grabs the attention;
    a second they stay to read... is a second they are not moving the mouse
    over to the back or close button... and a step closer towards the
    purchase.

    And when it comes to marketing or selling a product/service online, you
    really have to see it as a mission in order to succeed. Your titles are the
    first and most important thing to keeping the reader's attention.

    *Trial and Error* titles are like leaving your work to a guy like this! Are you
    sure you want that?

    The headline titles absolutely have to be KILLER because there are so
    many articles, blog posts, press releases out there... you can't just have
    any title - you need ones that will PHYSICALLY REACH OUT AND GRAB
    THEIR EYEBALLS!
    Here's What I Got For You

    Introducing: Killer Titles

    Killer Titles is an Excel spreadsheet resource I've created over several
    months of writing articles. This is my swipe file of killer article titles, my
    personal collection. Every time I begin writing an article, blog post, or
    whatever it is... I fire this baby up and instantly, I get time-tested,
    proven-to-work titles ready to slaughter the competition.

    What's more, this resource can be used for any niche. Instead of giving
    you the titles as they are... I've broken them down into usable
    cut-and-paste format titles. For example, the title of this thread is:
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    • Profile picture of the author Asher
      Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting View Post

      Any time I can render any
      assistance, sure, simply give
      me a shout Asher.

      No problem.

      You and the little stick men,
      enjoy your day!

      Best regards.


      Mark Andrews...
      Awesome I'll record myself shouting
      "Shout Asher" and gmail it to you
      sometime. That'll be the secret password.

      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      Why wouldn't you just say

      Pick Your Hitman

      There's an idea here somewhere but it's struggling to be heard. What exactly are the stickmen bringing to the pitch? You're selling "Killer Titles" and yet you use the confusing and ordinary "If you had a choice which 1 of these men is to be your hired killer?" (And what bodybuilding has to do with "hired killers" I'll never know.)

      Kill everything above "A Killer Headline Title" and go with something like

      "Headless Copy Found in Internet Marketing Backwoods"

      followed by the existing copy...
      Sweet! I got no idea what headless copy found
      in internet marketing backwoods mean but I
      reckon if they don't get it (like me), they'll stick
      (pun, score!) around to find out more.

      You're absolutely right about the confusing and
      ordinary headline title. That one I'll be changing
      for sure.

      I couldn't find nice, free assassins/killers so I went
      with the whacked up bodybuilding pic to get the
      brain juice flowing...

      Awesome input, thanks for hearing the small
      cry from the idea hidden within the text.

      Asher
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Asher View Post

        I got no idea what headless copy found
        in internet marketing backwoods mean
        If you were reading a newspaper or magazine or online site would you be likely to click on "Body Found" or "Headless Body Found in Backwoods"? I've just spun it to pique your interest. Meaning, if you have a dud headline nobody is going to read your body copy. Perhaps it would be better as -

        "Headless Body Copy Found in Internet Marketing Backwoods"

        Read this - Ten times as many people read headlines as go on to read the body copy.

        To present your message, you must first get your readers' attention. That is the primary job of your ad's headline. Legendary adman Claude Hopkins said, "It is not uncommon for a change in the headline to multiply returns from five to ten times over." That's the power of a good headline at work.
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        • Profile picture of the author Asher
          Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

          My personal take is over the top curiosity headlines are not the
          best way to go.

          In WSO land we are all trained to move quickly through. People
          prefer the headline to tell them what and why. Some of the most
          successful headlines are descriptive (in WSO)

          ...

          Don't get goofy once you have a headline. That whole murderer
          thing is hard to take when we talk about headlines. It's way too
          dramatic.

          Poor headlines lose money That is your focus. You have the answer
          to help their sales pages or WSO offers get read more.

          People rely on hype or over the top copy when they are lazy. It
          is very easy to conjure up a "My Headline Killed Your Mama" but
          very hard to turn that into something worth reading.

          Because it is so hard to carry that theme through we will do little
          stick figures holding guns. Your page is not edgy, it sucks.

          It does not quickly single out why people should keep reading. Unlike
          the general population, Warriors want to know what, why and how
          much- fast!.

          Hope that helps

          Paul
          Hi Paul,

          Thank you very much for your comments, I've
          taken them very seriously and I actually *did*
          do some research when I looked at the WSO
          section.

          The ones that are pretty successful really do
          have a straight-to-the-point title and that's
          what I was achieving for.

          Thanks for reminding me about it, guess the
          stick men concept kinda pushed that out the
          door a bit.

          I've since corrected the thread title that I'll
          be using. Thanks!

          Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author MattHaslem
    Test it.

    Btw ppl are saying it wont work... kennedy reackons thats a good thing to be hearing. Who knows, just test it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I'd like to know what you meant by being
      wise not to use creativity for every line,
      One creative approach can be expanded into an interesting read. Taking several creative approaches and throwing them all into the same page of copy may just look unfocused. The point of creative copy is to draw attention to the product in an entertaining way. Unrelated images, etc are irrelevant to the sales copy unless they clearly point to the product in some way.

      The muscle bound wonders in the images might be ok with a sample of "killer titles" from the product listed below them....or you could use less yucky images of three different topics with "sample" headlines below each.

      Something like "Create killer titles" would catch my attention even on the fast moving WSO threads. Most of the titles above wouldn't. Remember it's a sales page. You want to attract those with an interest in the product.

      A countdown of 5,4,3,2,1 might work - a good idea carried to extremes can lose its edge.

      kay
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world of one dog.
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      • Profile picture of the author Asher
        Originally Posted by bigchezmktg View Post

        Asher - I love the concept (and if you've seen my R-rated website, you'd know NOTHING is too over-the-top if that's what your customer likes!)

        Your picture (accompanied with a more intriguing headline) is a great start. But I'm not sure the headline you've got now is the one that'll make people wanna say "What's in the next paragraph? I'm interested!"

        Metronicity is onto something, but it's still not there yet. The two of you could prol'ly come up with something great.

        I hate to say it, but I agree (reluctantly) about the stick men. I just don't think they add to your conversions. They're cute and funny, but kind of amateurish. If you want something that looks drawn in, but a little more refined, try CopyDoodles. It's cheap and easy to use.

        Lemme know if I can help. I like the cut of your jib.

        Rachel
        Hi Rachel!

        Interesting site you got there - I wonder how she's
        going to get her heels out without leaving some
        kind of mark

        I've actually decided to do away with the stick men...
        since they're not really working according to so many
        copywriters who have so generously offered their
        views.

        Who am I to say their time-tested concepts won't
        work? I'll be going against my own copy of selling
        time-tested article titles.

        I know about Copydoodles... but I'm not going to use
        it... not when I can easily do something like that with
        my own Photoshop. It won't be as neat... but at least
        it's MY doodles~

        Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

        Dan Kennedy has not seen this page. The problem is that the people
        who would be interested in the product are saying they don't like it.

        I would love a product that could pump out good headlines

        I do agree with testing it. For $20 you'll know what your next move should
        be.
        Hey again Paul, this is actually for article titles
        only. But I don't blame you for thinking this could
        lead to sales letters... I didn't mention it in the
        letter.

        I decided to do away with it because it's mainly
        focused for article titles. It just so happens that
        some of them can actually be used for sales copy.

        I'll also *clean* up the copy so I don't get people
        saying... "I thought this was for copy writing!"

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        One creative approach can be expanded into an interesting read. Taking several creative approaches and throwing them all into the same page of copy may just look unfocused. The point of creative copy is to draw attention to the product in an entertaining way. Unrelated images, etc are irrelevant to the sales copy unless they clearly point to the product in some way.

        The muscle bound wonders in the images might be ok with a sample of "killer titles" from the product listed below them....or you could use less yucky images of three different topics with "sample" headlines below each.

        Something like "Create killer titles" would catch my attention even on the fast moving WSO threads. Most of the titles above wouldn't. Remember it's a sales page. You want to attract those with an interest in the product.

        A countdown of 5,4,3,2,1 might work - a good idea carried to extremes can lose its edge.

        kay
        Kay, you're awesome I totally agree with you
        and many copywriters about the stick men concept.

        The stick men aren't meant to be taking center stage,
        they're meant to be supporting roles of the main
        character... which is the offer.

        I've done away with a lot of the existing stick men
        and will think of some others which will give it more
        "oomph" but not draw any attention away. Thanks
        for sharing about the creative concept - I get it
        now.

        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        The way it was laid out was confusing to me. I don't want to work to figure out what you've got. Old saying, a confused mind always says no...
        Thank you for sharing, I hope the new one's
        less confusing and much more to the point for
        your liking!

        Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author bigchezmktg
    Asher - I love the concept (and if you've seen my R-rated website, you'd know NOTHING is too over-the-top if that's what your customer likes!)

    Your picture (accompanied with a more intriguing headline) is a great start. But I'm not sure the headline you've got now is the one that'll make people wanna say "What's in the next paragraph? I'm interested!"

    Metronicity is onto something, but it's still not there yet. The two of you could prol'ly come up with something great.

    I hate to say it, but I agree (reluctantly) about the stick men. I just don't think they add to your conversions. They're cute and funny, but kind of amateurish. If you want something that looks drawn in, but a little more refined, try CopyDoodles. It's cheap and easy to use.

    Lemme know if I can help. I like the cut of your jib.

    Rachel
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    The way it was laid out was confusing to me. I don't want to work to figure out what you've got. Old saying, a confused mind always says no...
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  • Profile picture of the author XRevJosh
    i dont really like the approach you need to aim for something different. goodluck with everything!
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  • Profile picture of the author Easy Cash
    The bold font in the heading is hard to read - all the letters melt together.
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