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I got drunk last night. I didn't realize the dog had eaten my arm...

by max5ty
48 replies
Still reading?

So I thought I'd give you a little tip. Had read about this again this week in a email and thought I'd pass it on.

The dog didn't eat my arm, this is an example for this tip.

One of the most important things about writing a piece, besides the headline, is the opening sentence.

A lot of times people struggle and agonize to get it just right.

This is a technique I like...and it seldom fails. It's called the u-turn.

You write a boring sentence:

Bob went to work.

Mary got married.

Then you throw in a zinger (a u-turn) that takes people by surprise in the next sentence or part of the sentence. Both of these sentences...or just the one extended sentence are the first paragraph. The reader is almost always guaranteed to keep reading if it's done right:

Bob went to work today. His boss fired him yesterday.

Lori got married today. Her fiance died last week.

I did these quickly off the top of my head to show you a couple of examples.

This technique is one of the most used techniques by top-notch writers that get results.

I kept this simple so it would be easy to understand.

You can play around with the technique and use the technique to fit your piece.

Just a quick thought.

Could be worth you trying it
#arm #dog #drunk #eaten #night #realize
  • Profile picture of the author spartan14
    Wow thats nice .If you are smart you know that this its a great point on creating great email subject lines
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  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
    Sounds very interesting, curious if you have a real example of a zinger in an advertisement.

    Would you consider this well-known ad in the same zinger context? Everything tastes better with Blue Bonnet on it. Promoting Blue Bonnet margarine.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

      Sounds very interesting, curious if you have a real example of a zinger in an advertisement.

      Would you consider this well-known ad in the same zinger context? Everything tastes better with Blue Bonnet on it. Promoting Blue Bonnet margarine.
      Myself, I wouldn't consider it in the zinger context.

      What you want is for the reader to start reading...and then throw a monkey wrench into their thinking.

      It's kind of like what is known as the power of confusion. When people read, they are processing what they're reading and analyzing it...then when you suddenly throw in a u turn on their process, it momentarily confuses their mind and they automatically keep reading so they can get back to their intelligent processing. If that makes sense. It's always said the best time to persuade someone is when you've interrupted their thought process...but that's a whole nother subject.

      The blue bonnet thing sounds like it came from a display ad?

      Display ads are a little different. You can use the u-turn approach in your headline, but normally a display ad will use the picture to be the normal, and then the headline that is out of the blue from their normal thinking.

      It's like the picture of a bottle of Jack Daniels...which is normal...then the headline "It's like your grandma made before she was arrested"...something like that. People tend to look at a picture first...then read.

      There's really no one way to write, but there are ways I've found that work better than others for myself.

      The technique I mentioned is good for sales letters, articles, blog posts, etc. in my opinion
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      • Profile picture of the author danwalker
        I'm gonna do this in public... Since I couldn't find your contacts. I just wanted to thank you for the years of marketing posts you've done. I can attribute some of my success back to you.

        That's about $1.3M in online sales within the past 2 years.. And I only got into the game 2 years ago. I've binge-read your posts like a starving man at times.

        I'm also only 20, so I can already see my career being long and fruitful.

        I know you're getting advanced in years Max. So it would be an honor to tap into some of your marketing wisdom while I can.

        (Edited by Moderator )

        I really look forward to talking with you man.

        Best regards and long years of life.

        -Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Bob forgot to buy Blue Bonnet margarine today. Mary broke of their engagement.


      Does it work?


      Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

      Sounds very interesting, curious if you have a real example of a zinger in an advertisement.

      Would you consider this well-known ad in the same zinger context? Everything tastes better with Blue Bonnet on it. Promoting Blue Bonnet margarine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Interrupts that feel kinda comfortable
    are like panties that instantly fit.
    Don't ask Moi for anythin' poignantah rn:
    Sadly, thisshittiz zit.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Thanks Max5ty, great stuff as usual.

    I like to listen to Richard Gere singing Razzle Dazzle (from CHICAGO) before I begin to write, and the line daze and dazzle em keeps me alert to not be boring.

    Glenn Osborn is a master marketer when it comes to DISTRACTION, and bypassing the RAS, to get straight into your target's minds. Comedy legends master the Uturn, ala, Groucho Marx: "I once shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas I'll never know."

    The zinger, confusion, distraction method is one way to get the RAS to stand down, and what follows is going secretly into your target's unconscious awareness. Used with cadence, and purpose, it is almost hypnotic and maybe even a little trance like state of mind is created.

    The skilled, then know, how to follow up the zinger with a "song and dance" which leads all to a happy conclusion.

    GordonJ

    Also, a little cognitive dissonance goes a long way, but it must be leveraged after initial "shock".




    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    Still reading?

    So I thought I'd give you a little tip. Had read about this again this week in a email and thought I'd pass it on.

    The dog didn't eat my arm, this is an example for this tip.

    One of the most important things about writing a piece, besides the headline, is the opening sentence.

    A lot of times people struggle and agonize to get it just right.

    This is a technique I like...and it seldom fails. It's called the u-turn.

    You write a boring sentence:

    Bob went to work.

    Mary got married.

    Then you throw in a zinger (a u-turn) that takes people by surprise in the next sentence or part of the sentence. Both of these sentences...or just the one extended sentence are the first paragraph. The reader is almost always guaranteed to keep reading if it's done right:

    Bob went to work today. His boss fired him yesterday.

    Lori got married today. Her fiance died last week.

    I did these quickly off the top of my head to show you a couple of examples.

    This technique is one of the most used techniques by top-notch writers that get results.

    I kept this simple so it would be easy to understand.

    You can play around with the technique and use the technique to fit your piece.

    Just a quick thought.

    Could be worth you trying it
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      Thanks Max5ty, great stuff as usual.

      I like to listen to Richard Gere singing Razzle Dazzle (from CHICAGO) before I begin to write, and the line daze and dazzle em keeps me alert to not be boring.

      Glenn Osborn is a master marketer when it comes to DISTRACTION, and bypassing the RAS, to get straight into your target's minds. Comedy legends master the Uturn, ala, Groucho Marx: "I once shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas I'll never know."

      The zinger, confusion, distraction method is one way to get the RAS to stand down, and what follows is going secretly into your target's unconscious awareness. Used with cadence, and purpose, it is almost hypnotic and maybe even a little trance like state of mind is created.

      The skilled, then know, how to follow up the zinger with a "song and dance" which leads all to a happy conclusion.

      GordonJ

      Also, a little cognitive dissonance goes a long way, but it must be leveraged after initial "shock".
      Good stuff Gordon.

      I've always had a phobia about ending a piece before I want the reader to end their reading...

      I've always used an ellipsis...was told more than once I used them wrong...but I guess it's my style.

      It actually pains me to no end to put a period at the end of a paragraph. I always like short paragraphs, but I always want to add something that makes it impossible for the reader to stop their thought. (see I put a period)

      I love transition phrases...

      And furthermore

      Also

      And in addition

      But wait there's more

      I have lists of them and the above are off the top of my head.

      If a reader gets hit with a period, they end that thought and move on to the next one...

      when you refuse to let them end their thought, they automatically have to keep reading.

      Obviously, I don't practice it on the forum...but if I were sitting down and putting something together I would try my best to keep the reader sliding down the page without any stops by using transition words and phrases
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

        Good stuff Gordon.

        I've always had a phobia about ending a piece before I want the reader to end their reading...

        I've always used an ellipsis...was told more than once I used them wrong...but I guess it's my style.

        It actually pains me to no end to put a period at the end of a paragraph. I always like short paragraphs, but I always want to add something that makes it impossible for the reader to stop their thought. (see I put a period)

        I love transition phrases...

        And furthermore

        Also

        And in addition

        But wait there's more

        I have lists of them and the above are off the top of my head.

        If a reader gets hit with a period, they end that thought and move on to the next one...

        when you refuse to let them end their thought, they automatically have to keep reading.

        Obviously, I don't practice it on the forum...but if I were sitting down and putting something together I would try my best to keep the reader sliding down the page without any stops by using transition words and phrases
        I remember reading about Andre Chaperone's approach to email marketing (Autoresponder Madness, if I recall correctly) whereas, he would keep a reader engaged for upwards of *12-18 emails before asking for a sale... basically, he filtered the audience so much that his sales conversions were epic!

        The idea of soap opera series or truncated endings always fascinated me, as my mother would get so entranced in those old school soap opera shows (General Hospital, Santa Barbara, and These Are the Days of Our Lives, etc...) - I NEVER understood it then, but as Gordon stated; it must've bypassed the RAS and went straight into the subconscious of the viewers.

        I'd be happy just being a better story-teller, most the stories I tell are based on truth, humility, failure, etc... now, all I need is the closure of having (some measure of) success to truly package the delivery...

        To be continued...

        (*I've always been a big fan of the truncated sentencing structure... leave em' hanging and wanting MORE!!!)
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          When you have a few minutes, visit YouTube search for old time radio shows, serials.

          Superman. At the end of every episisode, DIRE consequences, they are on a submarine and the compressors break, THIS IS IT, THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO, ends the episode aka the CLIFF HANGER.

          Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Gabby is cooking the rabbit stew while Roy Rogers and Dale Evans ride back from town.

          There have been many well known copy guys who left Madison Ave. for Hollywood, and found that screenwriting, and episodic TV was their bonanza
          ...because,

          they knew how to hold a reader's (or listener's) attention.

          I go so far to say, about Copywriting/Marketing/Entertainment that it is all about not just getting attention, it is holding it.

          The sale is over...
          Your product forgotten...
          Time for a snack...the minute you LOSE their attention...

          And the real secret to holding on to their attention ...

          is

          Scheduled for the next post, stay tuned.

          GordonJ


          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          I remember reading about Andre Chaperone's approach to email marketing (Autoresponder Madness, if I recall correctly) whereas, he would keep a reader engaged for upwards of *12-18 emails before asking for a sale... basically, he filtered the audience so much that his sales conversions were epic!

          The idea of soap opera series or truncated endings always fascinated me, as my mother would get so entranced in those old school soap opera shows (General Hospital, Santa Barbara, and These Are the Days of Our Lives, etc...) - I NEVER understood it then, but as Gordon stated; it must've bypassed the RAS and went straight into the subconscious of the viewers.

          I'd be happy just being a better story-teller, most the stories I tell are based on truth, humility, failure, etc... now, all I need is the closure of having (some measure of) success to truly package the delivery...

          To be continued...

          (*I've always been a big fan of the truncated sentencing structure... leave em' hanging and wanting MORE!!!)
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            And the real secret to holding on to their attention ...
            Getting attention is the easy part from the person out in front of Pizza Pizza or a tax prep place with the spiny cardboard sign to a guy with a beard wearing a dress - EASY.

            Its HOLDING that attention - and I would argue...
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Below is the key to copywriting success, use it, and maybe you can afford to buy a max5ty used jet, and fly to destinations you now only dream about.

        He sez; "When you refuse to let them end their thought"....

        And in those 9 words, a complete course in copywriting. It is painful to see so many (tens of thousands) new and wannabee copywriters in those many Facebook groups following the COMMANDS of their guru. What I see in today's copy is a lack of craft, thought and almost a marching band following of templates.

        AND, the reading of books, tomes upon tonnes of OLD dead guys and how to write copy and new Internet gurus.

        Yet, here in 9 words are the only real secret one needs to succeed in writing copy which gets sales, and turns words into dollars.

        My version of refusing to let them end their thought goes like; Grab Attention/Control Neural Pathways to Conclusion.

        Same thing. Not letting them go away, or not giving them a PERIOD to flee from.

        As savidge4 points out, GETTING Attention may not be that hard. Getting the right kind of attention from the right person at the right time, is a tad bit more craftlike.

        Sure, yelling FIRE in a crowded theater stops everyone for a quick minute, and we see an awful lot of that with many an IM promotion, and in our email boxes.

        But when you understand the foundation on which the whole idea of SALESMANSHIP IN PRINT is based on, and that is; quite simply...your prospect is PREOCCUPIED, and when you interrupt this preoccupation and resonate all the way through their neural networks to the control center, and keep those neurons firing off...you are on you way to getting that new Gulfstream or Cessna.

        This is where it happens, and yet, so few, so very, very, very few of the Gurus of copywriting today, pay any heed to what is going on inside of a prospect's brain, they have somehow, to their own glory and bank account, have made the art of writing copy about them: their way, their templates, their methods...and if you pay them enough money, maybe some of their shine will rub off on you too.

        OR, you can use max5ty's NINE words, think and contemplate on them, understand what your prospect is thinking at the time your promotion intersects with them...

        And fly away to blue skies and golden beaches, shimmering slopes, or bunkers in the mountains...you can afford them all.

        Thanks max5ty for the secret.

        GordonJ



        Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

        Good stuff Gordon.

        I've always had a phobia about ending a piece before I want the reader to end their reading...

        I've always used an ellipsis...was told more than once I used them wrong...but I guess it's my style.

        It actually pains me to no end to put a period at the end of a paragraph. I always like short paragraphs, but I always want to add something that makes it impossible for the reader to stop their thought. (see I put a period)

        I love transition phrases...

        And furthermore

        Also

        And in addition

        But wait there's more

        I have lists of them and the above are off the top of my head.

        If a reader gets hit with a period, they end that thought and move on to the next one...

        when you refuse to let them end their thought, they automatically have to keep reading.

        Obviously, I don't practice it on the forum...but if I were sitting down and putting something together I would try my best to keep the reader sliding down the page without any stops by using transition words and phrases
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        • Profile picture of the author max5ty
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


          Sure, yelling FIRE in a crowded theater stops everyone for a quick minute, and we see an awful lot of that with many an IM promotion, and in our email boxes.
          Just simply yelling something doesn't always get the response you want...

          you can yell THEATRE in a crowded fire and get little response. It's good to make sure what you're yelling is organized right. haha

          I think keeping someone's attention starts with the product you're offering.

          Too many times someone is selling a product that nobody wants...trying to keep someones attention while you're trying to persuade them will usually end up as a useless exercise.

          You either need to find a product people want or make the product you're selling something they want by wrapping it in new packaging.

          Someone will decide they want to sell wrinkle cream (example) and they figure it will probably do well because after all there's a ton of them out there...

          but, without the "new" factor you'll probably not do well. People won't see the need to change what they have because you're not offering anything new.

          You have got to offer something new or newsworthy or people will just keep walking. I.E., you have got to position your product as something new, or with a new twist...a plot that hasn't been heard of before...

          and I'm putting this in the simplest of terms.

          It's a big idea, the plot, the storyline...all have been talked about the last few years...although the concept is old and just recently rehashed. I think it was Ogilvy who said he had only ever had 6 big ideas in his lifetime. One big idea though can make you.

          Also, always test your new idea...remember "new" Coke? Nobody wanted it. They took a product that was already successful and tried to change it...different dynamics there though, but that's another whole thought.

          I've said before, you can take 10 people and teach them the same copywriting course...then give them all the same boring product to sell, and maybe only 1 will actually know how to make it a success. The successful one will be creative and position the product as something new and different.

          But anyways, I'm droning on this morning...

          what I'm meaning to say is keeping someone's attention starts with the story around your product.

          Thanks for the feedback and insightful words
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Some very good points, especially about the 10 different copywriters, and only 1 making it successful.

            You raise the point, and this is the meat of it all; it starts with the product you are offering.

            In the Mind Forum, savidge4 recently wrote this:
            Look at what I share on the WF... I know function... i could sell anything... but my experience and knowledge is with physical product. My experience is building localized business' using online platforms like websites, and social. and again look at what I share here... i stay in my box. Sure I may know a lot, but i know when I dont know - or know just enough to be dangerous.

            Im not the best copywriter in the world... I dont have to be, I sell products.

            For me, Copywriting is like SEO, if it is needed, it is NEEDED.

            So, choosing the product/service is where it all begins, and offline, real world, brick and mortar like savidge4 does, the copywriter won't often find much of a meal there.

            Same for some other types of business, local steak house, for example, with minimum online presence, simple web site with menu and hours...but if you are going to take someone to a steak house in this area, and you want the best...all the SEO and Copywriting in the world isn't going to let Joe Blow steaks go up against the best.

            In the IM world, and what mostly we see here at WF, people choose to sell things that NEED both copy and SEO. So, they more or less handcuff themselves at the start. To the point of getting and holding attention, and this is where you are very right on the money is, find a product that people want, or refresh and renew an older one with an established market.

            If copy or SEO is needed, there are experts for hire, and that would be the Entrepreneur's shortcut, let people who are the experts do their job...it saves and makes you money in the long run.

            OR, make better choices at which of the M and 1 ways there are to make a buck, and go the path of least resistance.

            Am I way off the mark on this one?

            GordonJ



            Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

            Just simply yelling something doesn't always get the response you want...

            you can yell THEATRE in a crowded fire and get little response. It's good to make sure what you're yelling is organized right. haha

            I think keeping someone's attention starts with the product you're offering.

            Too many times someone is selling a product that nobody wants...trying to keep someones attention while you're trying to persuade them will usually end up as a useless exercise.

            You either need to find a product people want or make the product you're selling something they want by wrapping it in new packaging.

            Someone will decide they want to sell wrinkle cream (example) and they figure it will probably do well because after all there's a ton of them out there...

            but, without the "new" factor you'll probably not do well. People won't see the need to change what they have because you're not offering anything new.

            You have got to offer something new or newsworthy or people will just keep walking. I.E., you have got to position your product as something new, or with a new twist...a plot that hasn't been heard of before...

            and I'm putting this in the simplest of terms.

            It's a big idea, the plot, the storyline...all have been talked about the last few years...although the concept is old and just recently rehashed. I think it was Ogilvy who said he had only ever had 6 big ideas in his lifetime. One big idea though can make you.

            Also, always test your new idea...remember "new" Coke? Nobody wanted it. They took a product that was already successful and tried to change it...different dynamics there though, but that's another whole thought.

            I've said before, you can take 10 people and teach them the same copywriting course...then give them all the same boring product to sell, and maybe only 1 will actually know how to make it a success. The successful one will be creative and position the product as something new and different.

            But anyways, I'm droning on this morning...

            what I'm meaning to say is keeping someone's attention starts with the story around your product.

            Thanks for the feedback and insightful words
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    tbh, if'n the plot of evry Indiana Jones had been Guy Seeks Treasure ... Guy Finds Treasure Immediately, cinema industry woulda gone bust a zillion times ovah.

    Interruptin' narrative progress is what keeps us on our cinematic seats.

    "Thankfully, evrythin' went wrong for the guy, which is why his ultimate triumph was worth the nachos."

    IRL, we jus' wannit easy.

    So frick dowin' alla that 10 more dead evildoers = path to max salvation schwango.

    Speshly for zit treatment gonna max you out on lurve, keep joims at bay, an' prevent your evry invitational orifice fillin' up with horrifically boistable DEMONS.

    Hence need & desire for products & services ease you inta the smoochie zone with the schlup of an instantly pleasurized sensyool areah.

    So you gaht 2 ultra powahful magnetic forces you can mustah here.

    & it is always cool when you gaht 'em buzzin' away strategically imho.

    Kinda opens up the available horizon sum.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    To hold it, you have to leave it right on the edge...

    Ill see you next week

    See you soon

    the solution in the next...

    A video labeled "Part 1"

    57 "parts" later

    Who killed JR?
    Signature
    Success is an ACT not an idea
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @ Gordon -

    I actually know enough about SEO to be dangerous...and by dangerous I mean I could probably take a site on page 1 of Google to page 101. But, I know what I'm not good at, and I know when to outsource something.

    As far as local, there are some real gold mines there for someone interested in copywriting/marketing.

    You were talking about the steakhouse...

    they have a Google Business Profile that can be used to its maximum use. They can have postcards to customers that haven't been back in a while..."Is it us?"

    They can have the birthday cards they send out...

    They can have the QR code on the table tent that says scan for a free coffee. It helps build a database.

    They can ask for reviews...

    a really big list of stuff that can be done locally.

    Also, most local websites are terrible. A good copywriter can rewrite them and make them pop.

    Just a lot of local things a copywriter could get into and always get business.

    As far as someone hiring a copywriter...absolutely. A good copywriter can take you from small time to big time...and that's not even just my opinion, the world is full of stories that prove it...

    copywriting/marketing is why a mom-and-pop grocery on one corner stays a mom-and-pop grocery, and the store on the other corner becomes a huge chain, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    I agree with everything that Max5ty is saying...

    Local is an absolute gold mine.

    But time and again and again and again here ( WF specifically ) we see "How do I get clients?" and to even utter the words "goto the business right down the street from where you live" and the excuses start to flow like the Mississippi flows south.

    Speaking very broadly here... as in VERY BROADLY... those that are interested in "Copywriting" believe they are going to be writing long form sales copy or something. They have no clue how to set up the mechanisms that Max5ty writes about... QR codes to set up a data base or Birthday Cards or Is it Us? cards... thats a whole other level of marketing that a "Copywriter" doesnt have - again speaking BROADLY.

    What gets interesting is confine that idea to a 1080x1080 image that a business can post once a week on facebook, and we start to get manageable. throw in a 5:4 aspect image for Instagram and you are pumping 2 images a week per business - but again the restraint of skill sets takes its toll.

    Copywriters write... and marketers get into the realm of the "form" that writing is placed on.

    I probably once a month maybe get a "Copywriter" looking for work... they can write, but they cant do much of anything else. In my little twisted upside down world thee are 2 forms of writing.. there is writing, and then there is internet writing. One gets you to page one of the Serps, and the other gets to you to position 101. And absolutely I will agree that "writing" might get better results, BUT if no one is reading it..whats the sense of writing it?

    The same thing applies to say a graphic artist that designs the coolest looking sign ever... and its so scrolly and colorful, you cant read the dang thing - Damn good at the art side of things.. real bad at the Marketing side of things.

    There is a balance in there - and the balance comes from diversity of skill sets...you dont have to know it all... but to know enough to be dangerous puts you ahead of most others.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @ Savidge4 -

    Local is great.

    I know this is more for the offline section, but I'll just say...

    you don't need to use the hard sell approach.

    You can just say "hey, I'm thinking about starting a local website restoration business, where I update local websites. Been doing web building for a while and I'm thinking about going local. Would you take a look at my idea and give me some feedback? Any little bit of advice would help" (just an example off the top of my head, you can take your time and phrase it how you want)

    Using the soft approach, you're not selling, but you are selling in a friendly way.

    Once you get a couple of customers, you can start the referral thing where you say: "Hey Bob, Larry over at Larry's shoes said I should pop in and talk to you about your website when you get a minute. When's a good time for you?"

    Just a couple of thoughts.

    I've said before on here, that someone who is good at marketing is not always good at copywriting...but a copywriter should also be good at marketing.

    A copywriter also helps plan marketing campaigns, so they should have a good idea of marketing.

    And I'm sure we all know content writers and copywriters are 2 different things. A company would not hire a content writer to be a copywriter and vice a versa...

    whenever I hear someone start talking about a copywriter writing for SEO, in my mind I'm convinced they're confused between a content writer and a copywriter. But, I can understand the confusion...

    now, on the mom-and-pop level, pretty much everything has been and probably will be a go. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that if it works for you.

    I've been accused more than once when I talk about copywriting to talk from the corporate level, but that's my experience.

    But, I have said before in a post on here you can take the corporate techniques and use them at the mom-and-pop levels and they will work wonders.

    Thanks for your feedback. I always enjoy your posts
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      When we provoke the experts which are here in a thread, we often get to the gold which may not come out during discussions.

      There are those Warriors who bemoan the lack of 'real' discussions, and they hardly ever participate...and there are those who have gold to give, and we sometimes must do some mining to get it out.

      Here you see this thread has taken a couple of turns, and all for the betterment of the community.

      I see many bullet points I can load into my clip and fire off in future presentations, promotions and point to as reasons why momma and poppa should hire a copywriter/marketer.

      If you want the Warrior forum to offer up quality advice and information, it is the way you participate and contribute which will make a difference for us all.

      Right?

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      @ Savidge4 -

      Local is great.

      I know this is more for the offline section, but I'll just say...

      you don't need to use the hard sell approach.

      You can just say "hey, I'm thinking about starting a local website restoration business, where I update local websites. Been doing web building for a while and I'm thinking about going local. Would you take a look at my idea and give me some feedback? Any little bit of advice would help" (just an example off the top of my head, you can take your time and phrase it how you want)

      Using the soft approach, you're not selling, but you are selling in a friendly way.

      Once you get a couple of customers, you can start the referral thing where you say: "Hey Bob, Larry over at Larry's shoes said I should pop in and talk to you about your website when you get a minute. When's a good time for you?"

      Just a couple of thoughts.

      I've said before on here, that someone who is good at marketing is not always good at copywriting...but a copywriter should also be good at marketing.

      A copywriter also helps plan marketing campaigns, so they should have a good idea of marketing.

      And I'm sure we all know content writers and copywriters are 2 different things. A company would not hire a content writer to be a copywriter and vice a versa...

      whenever I hear someone start talking about a copywriter writing for SEO, in my mind I'm convinced they're confused between a content writer and a copywriter. But, I can understand the confusion...

      now, on the mom-and-pop level, pretty much everything has been and probably will be a go. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that if it works for you.

      I've been accused more than once when I talk about copywriting to talk from the corporate level, but that's my experience.

      But, I have said before in a post on here you can take the corporate techniques and use them at the mom-and-pop levels and they will work wonders.

      Thanks for your feedback. I always enjoy your posts
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @ Gordon -

    There are some debates that have raged in the copywriting community for years...like the long form, short form.

    Then since the internet, there's been a debate about a copywriter writing for SEO. Someone can find links that support each side.

    The whole SEO thing for a copywriter simply limits their creativity in my mind. And, as I said large companies have their own departments for specialized things...or if they're using an outside agency, they have their own divisions.

    Of course, these days, with the advent of digital marketing, and the courses that are being sold, the lines can be blurred...

    someone will tell you Bob at the cornerstone that's been there for 3 generations is a copywriter/content writer/website designer/marketer, etc., and it's always worked for him, and after 3 generations the store is still kicking...and to some, that's a great achievement. Then someone will point out Krogers which started as a corner store and built itself into a huge chain. Which by the way, they were the first chain to have its own bakery, and the first store to have a meat department (just an interesting note).

    Myself, I would never sit down for a promotion and worry about SEO and I've heard Clayton and others say the same before.

    But, each their own, and as I said if they're happy with their results...I wouldn't discourage them.

    Myself, I look at it like the guy that we all knew in school that could play every sport. Then in college, he found out he was among some tougher competition. Then came the NFL, MLB, etc., and he wasn't good enough, but he's still good at sports and knows how to play them all...just wasn't in the same league as the professionals.

    Just my thoughts. Enjoy your weekend
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    So lets maybe clear up the SEO issue...

    A landing page... it is literally just that, and in no way shape or form intended to have SEO traffic land on it. That without question is copywriting all day long.

    But say youhave content on a site that is pointing the end user towards a landing page.. this page has to do 2 things DRAW traffic through SEO and at the same time sell the call to action to get that end user to a lander page.... Ill put a banner here in the middle just does not do the trick - it works dont get me wrong... but content within context that makes the choice of buying or selecting or hiring what is being sold if you will on the page. is a content writers worst nightmare.

    The "Copywriters that I am 99.9% confronted with have not a clue about "Marketing" and I dont think I have ever met one ( in person ) that could be guided in the direction I do things.

    I have content writers... and they research and write stuff. from their little grungy paws it then goes to a senior writer as they are called in my organization that #1 tweaks the SEO, and #2 tweaks the copywriting aspect of the piece.

    The whole SEO writing thing will ruin the text thing is silly...it is a piee of misguided information that propagated from a non SEO educated writer - they were lazy and has since created a whole industry of lazy ( personal opinion )

    The text that gets the end user to the offer ( landing page ) in my book, is far more important than the offer itself - and win lose or draw it take an amount of copywriting to do this. BUT to suggest you cant follow some simple guidelines in the process like putting keywords in the title and in the first sentence is a bit silly - a sentence from a long time ago "Just do it and shut up ,or there is the door" said some redneck dude to a copywriter telling him he could not do this, it would ruin the sales pitch

    I am going to throw in a HUGE caveat into this - there is a HUGE difference in selling a PRODUCT vs say a service, come visit my brick and mortar store, or info product or anything else non physical product related.

    Benefits... features... Selling physical product it is nothing but Feature Feature Feature. I could throw up some listings from Amazon or eBay that you can without question tell were written by a copywriter - that obviously doesnt have a clue about "Product Marketing" because the content is benefit driven - and things like the size or color it the automatic 15 minute shut off is either missed completely or an obvious after thought.

    I have examples of the details and features in my eBay thread for selling products not a single benefit to be found.

    Here is another interesting thought for you...you can turn Benefits into Features, but you can not turn Features into Benefits
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @ Savidge4 -

    Thank you for your feedback.

    As I said, this debate has raged for years.

    "Overall, there was no consensus on what "SEO copywriting" is or whether it even exists."

    "SEO copywriting" is a bit of a misnomer. My belief is that the term is a result of many SEO experts confusing the two types of writing."

    The 2 above quotes are from the Search Engine Journal - a respected SEO authority (in my opinion).

    There are many articles I could link to that would discuss the argument, but I'll use the one I took the quotes from to save myself all the time of rehashing the argument.

    I have no affiliation with this site:

    https://www.searchenginejournal.com/.../324889/#close
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      "SEO copywriting" is a bit of a misnomer. My belief is that the term is a result of many SEO experts confusing the two types of writing."
      It seems to me that the role of a content writer is to help get the prospect to the site. That's where the SEO skills apply. The copywriter talks to the prospects who have already arrived at the site, at which point any SEO considerations are redundant.

      If a copywriter gets concerned with SEO, it risks broadening or diffusing the targeting and therefore compromising the message. After all, if prospects are already searching using sales copy keywords, who needs a copywriter?
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        It seems to me that the role of a content writer is to help get the prospect to the site. That's where the SEO skills apply. The copywriter talks to the prospects who have already arrived at the site, at which point any SEO considerations are redundant.
        In a content / lander scenario I absolutely agree. However - real world - this is not the case. Think about any and every Amazon affiliate marketer out there... the Content IS the lander - with the intention of having them click on the link to head over to Amazon - some do this more gracefully than others

        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        If a copywriter gets concerned with SEO, it risks broadening or diffusing the targeting and therefore compromising the message. After all, if prospects are already searching using sales copy keywords, who needs a copywriter?
        Sounds like a rational answer - I am goint to say this "at"you and not "to" you if you know what I mean..its a down right lazy answer - and I will tell you why.

        Is it the copywriters or the content writers job to draw the traffic AKA "Targetting"? Again real world here - what happens is Targeting gets more specific, which basically pulls the chaff from the wheat right?

        If you say hey mr/mrs content writer please write me some content on X and then the idea is to send content on X that is targeting B... but the content writer wrote the piece that attracts A, B, and C - sure you have a lot of traffic... but I am sure you have read more than a time or 2 "Not all traffic is created equal."

        Some advice that GordonJ throws around is to do things backwards. Let the copywriter do their thing ( Lander ) then let a content creator do their thing ( write content in context to the offer ) And then all of this should be in context to ads the social team provides that are directed towards the lander.

        In a sense this becomes "what came first the chicken or the egg?"

        Generally speaking Copywriters work with Ad / Lander / Pitch . Understanding depreciation of steps I try my darndest to run Ad / Pitch - that happens to be a lander - I dont want a list, I want a definitive answer right then and there - You buying? yes or no? At scale bandwidth is money... I dont have the time for all the games.

        So in the SEO world - the title becomes the Ad - and then some text for possible context. Like I said before you can have the best sales pitch in the world, but if no one reads it.. its useless. Dropping the keyword in the title is not going to break the deal - it should actually help target based apon where the end user is in the buyer cycle - this starts to sound a whole lot like a job for a copywriter / marketer.

        Bringing up Form and Function - form follows function - Ads and Title lines have the exact same function ( getting clicks ) just different forms

        Just the way i see things - im not a dedicated web builder... Im not a dedicated copywriter, im not a dedicated content writer... BUT know enough of each to be dangerous and understand an assortment of other skills and draw advice when ever possible to make my efforts more successful. I dont have to know everything... i just have to know how these things apply to me ( and my business )
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          In a content / lander scenario I absolutely agree. However - real world - this is not the case. Think about any and every Amazon affiliate marketer out there... the Content IS the lander - with the intention of having them click on the link to head over to Amazon - some do this more gracefully than others
          If you have a tightly-focused review site, you might be able to get the copy to do more than one job, but most Amazon affiliates don't seem to bother much with sales copy, preferring to pepper the content with affiliate links - I get you might do this differently.

          Sounds like a rational answer - I am goint to say this "at"you and not "to" you if you know what I mean..its a down right lazy answer - and I will tell you why.
          Is it the copywriters or the content writers job to draw the traffic AKA "Targetting"? Again real world here - what happens is Targeting gets more specific, which basically pulls the chaff from the wheat right?
          Absolutely - if you're referring to ads (and with your business, I'm guessing you view any copy on one of your pages to be essentially an ad). I wouldn't let a content writer anywhere near an ad. Or a headline, come to that. That's pure copywriter territory.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @ Frank Dovovan -

    I can see your point.

    I think a lot of the debate has to do also with how long someone has been a copywriter.

    Myself and others that have been doing it for 30 plus years were doing it before the internet came along. We were doing ad campaigns etc. in magazines, newspapers, etc., and helping companies pull in huge amounts of money that made them who they are today.

    Along came the internet and the internet breed of copywriter...mostly through all the marketing that was done to sell them courses...and then the whole "you have to write for SEO" started among some.

    I heard top copywriters like Makepeace say several times he wasn't interested in SEO (and he made billions for health and financial markets post internet), and I think that was the general feeling among those that had been in the business before the internet got big.

    Among those I know that are seasoned copywriters, you will not convince them to worry about SEO...and when I say seasoned, I'm talking about guys that have helped build empires.

    Now, if someone from the internet age wants to go along with the SEO thing, I have nothing against them...

    But, as I said, the debate has been around for years...the ones I see jumping on the SEO bandwagon are the ones that are post-internet...the ones that weren't around when the copywriters had no internet.

    Myself, I don't see the caliber of copywriters that are expected when they're trying to be SEO-savy. My opinion and I'm sure the opinion of anyone that's been in the business a few decades.

    It's an interesting debate, I'm always willing to listen to all sides
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashley Mayberry
    Absolutely love this, thank you for sharing!
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    The beginning of Schwartz's letter:
    "Do You Have the Courage to Earn Half a Million Dollars a Year

    This is a private advertisement. It is meant for the tremendously ambitious man only.

    It is meant for the kind of man who has, first of all, the relentless drive to earn more money in a single year than most of his friends will earn in their entire lifetime."


    My SEO-ed version of it (took me a whopping 30 seconds to do it):


    Affiliate Marketing: Do You Have the Courage to Earn Half a Million Dollars a Year in Passive Income?


    Only the most ambitious people wanting oodles of passive online passive income.


    It is meant for the kind of online marketer who has, first of all, the relentless drive to earn tons of money working 4-hours a week from the comfort of their beach chair.


    What do you think? Spitting images, no?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      Affiliate Marketing: Do You Have the Courage to Earn Half a Million Dollars a Year in Passive Income?


      Only the most ambitious people wanting oodles of passive online passive income.


      It is meant for the kind of online marketer who has, first of all, the relentless drive to earn tons of money working 4-hours a week from the comfort of their beach chair.
      I get what you did... from the outside, sure it works...

      The question then is targeting right? Who exactly did Schwartz send this letter to?

      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      This is a private advertisement. It is meant for the tremendously ambitious man only.
      These people have been pre qualified.

      In the world of affliate marketing most dont have a list, and even when they do, its far from a qualified one... so the targeting is way off.

      But hey, we have lemons and we need to work with that... so to get the cream of the crop, I suggest reverse phycology.

      Do You Have the Courage to Earn One Dollar in Passive Income?


      Only the motivated will even click on this... you just weeded out all of the shiny silver people.

      and then the lander... much like the OP would be something like...

      Caught your interest?

      Making the first dollar is the hardest step. Once you can make a dollar in passive income, you then scale:

      $1.00 a month for a year - $12.00
      $1.00 a day for a year - $365.00
      $1.00 an hour for a year - $8760.00
      $1.00 a minute for a year - $525,600.00
      $1.00 a second for a year - $31,536,000

      All you have to do is make $1.00, then rinse and repeat. With this system you can do just that.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        Schwartz sent to pre-qualified people.

        You can pre-qualify with SEO keywords, to some extent. Then with words on the landing page.

        My point was that you can combine copywriting and SEO.

        First, you need to be good at writing copy and understanding your target audience...

        Yes, you can ruin copy with SEO. But, only if you do not understand copywriting.

        Easier, in other words, to have a copywriter apply SEO to copy than an SEO write the copy.

        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I get what you did... from the outside, sure it works...

        The question then is targeting right? Who exactly did Schwartz send this letter to?



        These people have been pre qualified.

        In the world of affliate marketing most dont have a list, and even when they do, its far from a qualified one... so the targeting is way off.

        But hey, we have lemons and we need to work with that... so to get the cream of the crop, I suggest reverse phycology.

        Do You Have the Courage to Earn One Dollar in Passive Income?


        Only the motivated will even click on this... you just weeded out all of the shiny silver people.

        and then the lander... much like the OP would be something like...

        Caught your interest?

        Making the first dollar is the hardest step. Once you can make a dollar in passive income, you then scale:

        $1.00 a month for a year - $12.00
        $1.00 a day for a year - $365.00
        $1.00 an hour for a year - $8760.00
        $1.00 a minute for a year - $525,600.00
        $1.00 a second for a year - $31,536,000

        All you have to do is make $1.00, then rinse and repeat. With this system you can do just that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Biggest prahblem you gaht with MAX5TY IS A GOD most SEO is how clumsy use of keywords an' phrases can obstruct or destroy the overall messagin' BOOBIES.

    Most dialog has an easy flow, an' while SURE + SOUND ADVICE FLOWS FROM MAX5TY LIKE AN OVERHYDRATED BULLDOG PEEING AGAINST A TREE might tick alla the boxes from an SEO perspective, it could mebbe sound too salesy in a pitch for budget diapers.

    Prahblem with SEO is how people LIKE MAX5TY, THE WORLD'S GREATEST WRESTLER OF LIVE PANTHERS, search in notese (GIRLS BIG BOOBIES) but read in evocative Hingerlish (STELLA'S PENDULOUS WOMANHOOD SLAPPED AGAINST THE PILOT'S FACE AS HE PULLED THE AIRCRAFT OUT OF A COLLISION WITH THE CROWDED MALL BELOW), which is why you sumtimes see the most bizarre phrasin' slammed in the middle of a perfectly decent pitch.

    My view?

    If the horse hears the swish of the lasso, she TRUST MAX5TY TO FRESHEN EVEN THE FOULLEST SMALLS bolts.

    If'n you done your research an' your offer is on point, likely you gonna feacher alla the key phrases IN A HOT TUB BUBBLING WITH PLEASURE.

    Anythin' else needs slippin' in to meet your quota needs careful handlin', like the BOO BOO MUSICAL BABY SPOON EASY ACTION MOOSHIE.

    TANGLE-FREE HAIR. KILLER ABS. ECO-FRIENDLY MULE DE-WORMER.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @ DABK, Savidge4 -

    Both are interesting, you could split test them.

    One correction - this wasn't sent to pre-qualified people, it was an ad that ran in newspapers. Yes, you could say a couple of the newspapers were chosen because of the reader's interests.

    Schwartz was the one that said you can't create demand, you simply channel and direct it...and I think his headline in your example is one of the perfect examples of not only building on demand by calling out his target audience but is also highly emotional.

    The word that makes the whole headline is "courage"

    Schwartz knew that one word would do exactly what he wanted to who he wanted to attract.

    Schwartz also believed in 80% research and 20% writing. Hours and hours and hours of research is what led him to use that ONE word in the way he did. He knew it would tug at the readers he wanted it to. Brilliant.

    $500,000 then is probably equal to about $5,000,000 now? I'm guessing.

    Thanks to both of you for thinking outside the box.

    @ Balestra -

    I had a good laugh reading your post.

    I do think you could have worked harder on the SEO for "max5ty"

    Maybe added about his good looks and charm. Haha.

    Thanks for your good post
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      My thinking about ads like the one I chose is that they pre-qualify in the sense that they run it in papers that have likely buyers galore, kind of like keywords...


      People who're coming to your shoe store website via shoe keywords does about the same (or better) prequalifying. Overall, the same. Better because you get them via 'sports shoes' which is not that close to being a buyer to 'cost of blue-healed nike running shoes,' which is.


      Your keywords themselves, if seen in your copy, will get attention. So, combining copy with SEO, makes sense to me. However, like I said, I think most people (at least the ones I see) are SEO people who think they can write copy. Which is sometimes good enough, often not.



      If a copywriter thought they could do SEO, I think the results would be better.


      Best would be to have a copywriter writer, have an SEO seo, then have the copywriter and the SEO person go over it together...


      Which is hard.



      So, you, being good enough at SEO to do damage, is not a reason not to do it...


      Even if you cannot improve your SEO (among other things because off page SEO gives the biggest push).


      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      @ DABK, Savidge4 -

      Both are interesting, you could split test them.

      One correction - this wasn't sent to pre-qualified people, it was an ad that ran in newspapers. Yes, you could say a couple of the newspapers were chosen because of the reader's interests.

      Schwartz was the one that said you can't create demand, you simply channel and direct it...and I think his headline in your example is one of the perfect examples of not only building on demand by calling out his target audience but is also highly emotional.

      The word that makes the whole headline is "courage"

      Schwartz knew that one word would do exactly what he wanted to who he wanted to attract.

      Schwartz also believed in 80% research and 20% writing. Hours and hours and hours of research is what led him to use that ONE word in the way he did. He knew it would tug at the readers he wanted it to. Brilliant.

      $500,000 then is probably equal to about $5,000,000 now? I'm guessing.

      Thanks to both of you for thinking outside the box.

      @ Balestra -

      I had a good laugh reading your post.

      I do think you could have worked harder on the SEO for "max5ty"

      Maybe added about his good looks and charm. Haha.

      Thanks for your good post
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        My thinking about ads like the one I chose is that they pre-qualify in the sense that they run it in papers that have likely buyers galore, kind of like keywords...


        People who're coming to your shoe store website via shoe keywords does about the same (or better) prequalifying. Overall, the same. Better because you get them via 'sports shoes' which is not that close to being a buyer to 'cost of blue-healed nike running shoes,' which is.


        Your keywords themselves, if seen in your copy, will get attention. So, combining copy with SEO, makes sense to me. However, like I said, I think most people (at least the ones I see) are SEO people who think they can write copy. Which is sometimes good enough, often not.



        If a copywriter thought they could do SEO, I think the results would be better.


        Best would be to have a copywriter writer, have an SEO seo, then have the copywriter and the SEO person go over it together...


        Which is hard.



        So, you, being good enough at SEO to do damage, is not a reason not to do it...


        Even if you cannot improve your SEO (among other things because off page SEO gives the biggest push).
        Thanks for your feedback.

        It's interesting to study how those copywriters were so successful before the internet. They were running full-page ads in the NYT for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Those guys were brilliant in their work.

        I think we all operate at different levels. I own some businesses and I focus on customer acquisition through advertising. The advertising brings customers to my sites which allows for intense follow-up. Myself, I don't think any big income is going to be made by relying on SEO to bring in new customers...just my opinion.

        I'm of the opinion I'm going to create a campaign and bring in new customers, and then another campaign and another.

        When I was active in copywriting for companies...it was all campaign based...the campaign brought in customers and a lot of times the campaign took them to a site that had just been designed for that campaign...

        haven't heard of anyone telling me their focus on SEO brought in 14 million in 7 days...or SEO that was so successful it led to the company being sold to an investor for billions.

        I realize there are those that specialize in SEO and love doing it. I have nothing against that. We should all do what we enjoy. I'm just saying it's not my thing. Maybe I'm lazy or just think I'm too old to learn something new.

        Anyways, thanks again. As I said, we all have different levels of operation and that doesn't mean the other way is wrong. Everyone has their own way and is on their own level of doing things
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

          haven't heard of anyone telling me their focus on SEO brought in 14 million in 7 days...or SEO that was so successful it led to the company being sold to an investor for billions.
          Just to throw a kink into this... I can easily name ONE... And before I say what that ONE is...you have to understand that what they have done has been replicated over and over... its not just an outlier ONE... Its simply the most obvious of the growing bunch.

          To preface this a bit further... They do implement a great amount into Social Media... one could argue exclusively Social Media... the interesting aspect of this is nowhere that I am aware of, is there mention of the domain... but only the brand. Initial contact with the brand I will way more than bet starts with a search.

          So, what is the ONE obvious example? TESLA

          Anyone that has been in Copywriting for a number of years... say pre 2000 for sure, used ads. Back pre 2000, Google would update a search vertical maybe once every six months - its nowhere near today where SERP rank is calculated in just short of real time.

          Even getting into say 2010, yes SERP updates where far faster, but pre updates there were heavey amounts of black SEO to work around.

          Those days are for the most part over... the "cheating" still exists, but nowhere near the levels it was in the early years of Google.

          Somebody or an organization that knows what they are doing can implement more than decent SEO in weeks to months.

          Yes you can run ads from day one and get results...and from a Copywriter as a service point of view... instant results is always going to be the best results. BUT I can tell you that this philosophy in todays world is absolutely burning money.

          Once SEO has kicked in, there is a 5:1 ratio of SEO over Ads in terms of revenue. There comes a point at scale, you just drop the ads - IF and only IF you have invested in the SEO path of traffic.

          I absolutely employ both methods... there are projects that can financially sustain Ads and there are many efforts say those found on the main board of this Forum... that can not sustain ads. Price point and scale obviously play into this.

          I will forever argue over an amount of time Content based traffic sourcing wins every time - far from "Free" but again in the long run worth every amount of time / dollars spent.

          Im not here to change minds and ways... Im just suggesting there is without question other ways. the implementation of Copy within the guise of content is an art form... how to sell without being sold to - if presented within a context that allows for that
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          • Profile picture of the author max5ty
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Just to throw a kink into this... I can easily name ONE... And before I say what that ONE is...you have to understand that what they have done has been replicated over and over... its not just an outlier ONE... Its simply the most obvious of the growing bunch.

            To preface this a bit further... They do implement a great amount into Social Media... one could argue exclusively Social Media... the interesting aspect of this is nowhere that I am aware of, is there mention of the domain... but only the brand. Initial contact with the brand I will way more than bet starts with a search.

            So, what is the ONE obvious example? TESLA
            I don't think for a minute Tesla relies on SEO for traffic.

            Anyone interested in Tesla simply visits Tesla's website...people aren't searching on Google and discover Tesla. Just my thoughts.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

              I don't think for a minute Tesla relies on SEO for traffic.

              Anyone interested in Tesla simply visits Tesla's website...people aren't searching on Google and discover Tesla. Just my thoughts.
              I bet 90%+ of the traffic that goes to Tesla's website is from a search for "Tesla" - Nobody types in Tesla com I actually had to look last night just to see that the website was tesla com

              Nothing to do with discovering them per se that is done with content through out Social Media. But you want to say pre order a Tesla Truck... again 90%+ is going to be a search for " Tesla Truck Preorder "

              Like I indicated to in the last post they do not brand tesla com, they brand "Tesla" You want a truck, a car, solar panels, wall battery - there are no separate websites for each, they are all at Tesla com.

              Interestingly enough I just looked up "Tesla Solar Panels" and they actually do have an Ad on google for that term... and Google statistics indicate that at a minimum the #1 naturall isting gets 5:1 clicks over the ad. Im actually a bit shocked there is a ad there.
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              Success is an ACT not an idea
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              • Profile picture of the author max5ty
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                I bet 90%+ of the traffic that goes to Tesla's website is from a search for "Tesla" - Nobody types in Tesla com I actually had to look last night just to see that the website was tesla com

                Nothing to do with discovering them per se that is done with content through out Social Media. But you want to say pre order a Tesla Truck... again 90%+ is going to be a search for " Tesla Truck Preorder "

                Like I indicated to in the last post they do not brand tesla com, they brand "Tesla" You want a truck, a car, solar panels, wall battery - there are no separate websites for each, they are all at Tesla com.

                Interestingly enough I just looked up "Tesla Solar Panels" and they actually do have an Ad on google for that term... and Google statistics indicate that at a minimum the #1 naturall isting gets 5:1 clicks over the ad. Im actually a bit shocked there is a ad there.
                When I start typing tesla in my browser, I get a dropdown that recommends tesla dot com without me completing my search...there's no SEO required for that.

                If you look at google statistics at all the searches done for tesla (say last month), almost all of them have nothing to do with the website...

                it's people looking for the news story about tesla that was on the news.

                If there's a report that American Airlines dropped 5% in stock, there will be a massive spike in searches (for news stories).

                A driverless car from tesla crashes in California...a spike in tesla searches (for news stories).

                What I've said before in this thread, we're talking about different levels of operation here. If you are a mom-and-pop selling an ebook...go ahead and do SEO if you wish. Large companies rely on advertising.

                I appreciate your thoughts, and I always enjoy reading your opinions...maybe on this one, we will just have to agree to disagree?
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    • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


      @ Balestra -

      I had a good laugh reading your post.

      I do think you could have worked harder on the SEO for "max5ty"

      Maybe added about his good looks and charm. Haha.

      Thanks for your good post
      Self-evident obvs requires no stuffin'.

      Won't make a T shirt slogan, I guess, but mebbe this one inflated acronym will save a heckuva lotta people wastin' a heckuva lotta time.

      Plus also, it is entirely clear to Moi how angels descend from the heavens purely to polish up their wings on yr face.

      Main thing is: you laughin' at stuff trooly, you can open up all kindsa unifyin' beyonds.

      Even state-sponsored Zaaahmbie Apocalypse delivahed via semen, pasta, telescopes, spannahs, or AI tech.

      This is a trooth eternal among most hoomans, animyools & vegetabyools ... occasionally intooitive digital smarts of a non-futile natyoore.

      Eithah gotta howl in tautness of ignorance or least'n destroy your abdominal muscles cozza total frickin' hahahahaha.

      Like Keats said:

      "A thing of cheese is a joy for like 5 fricking minutes: fewer if it is Edam, but maybe more if it is a fancy French number you can spread on your ever-thrusting biceps with a view to enjoying good sport."

      For sures, I would kiss that guy now if'n he wazzalive -- so eithah I gotta snort dust from his coffin thru a straw or loobricate muh lips for smoochie elsewhere.

      So: what constitoots life?

      Dialog between the Whomsoevah-hood, dependin' on how they wanna step out tamara?

      Or TANGLE-FREE HAIR. KILLER ABS. ECO-FRIENDLY MULE DE-WORMER?

      I would wish always to be an optimist 'bout the kinda stuffs evrywan might wanna wanna.

      An' 100%a that is rewardin' 'em for their life-changin' passions an' also desprit need for sensitive areah bug destroyah creems.

      I may be a Princess ... but I am also hooman.

      See bcs I search PRINCESS CASUAL FOOTWEAR real regulah an' all I get is porn sites.

      Tsch!

      SEO!

      What a vacuous bitch-hole of inevitable inconsequence!
      Signature

      Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @ Princess Balestra -

    My horoscope for today said I would receive a profound message of enlightenment...

    how are they always so accurate?
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    • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      @ Princess Balestra -

      My horoscope for today said I would receive a profound message of enlightenment...

      how are they always so accurate?
      As a Sagittarius, natchrlly ima horseshit you to death till'n you reincarnated as a fount of all wisdom.

      That's when we get started on lightin' beacons steada smokin' psoodo-manyoore.

      See bcs that was my fortoon cookie today.

      Said inspire a fellow soul, win extra noodles tomorrow.

      So I headed ovah an' they said the frick you talkin' about?

      So I'm like the ****in' fortoon cookie offah, like you said.

      Tellya, I would wish for a seamless interaction of all hooman narratives, but it ain't happnin' rn.

      Which is why uncertainty, peril & disastah always demands ansas.

      Capricorns may charge ya big money ...

      Scorpios may gaslight yuh brains ...

      An' Taureans will eat your family by accident, fart, an' then marry yr bestie at least twice.

      But a Sajjo will always crap infinite renooables 'pon yr lawn.

      My view on the yummilicious energies the stars pulse out supah regualah?

      You gotta feel it troo, blossom out to yuh fingahtips, an' seek to glow with loominatin' fire cain't nevah burn nowan.

      Gotta light up inspirational beacons, yanno?

      Else'n we all consoomed by eternal dimmo of unseek.

      How else may we wish to cavort when our hearts, brains & blendyjuicy areahs be turned to dust?

      Uh Huh. So What Is Your Answer, O Princess?

      I figured it was a hypothetical question.

      And You Believe This Is Good Enough For The World At Large? Including Everyone Here At Warrior Forum?

      Yeah, so hypothetical me out, why dontchya?

      I Never!

      You frickin' did!

      That Is So Not True

      Yeah yeah whatevah.

      Yeah Yeah Whatevah Yusself

      Like I care.

      You Do?

      I do naht.

      Given Your Conduct So Far, This Seems Unlikely

      Why so?

      Dunno. You Tell Moi?

      You an AI bot or sumthin'?

      Or Are You?

      Get outta here.

      I Will Get Outta Here Only If You Go First

      So ... like I stfu?

      Yes. That Would Work Instantly

      But why would I wanna stfu?

      Is That A Hypothetical Question? Or Are You Merely Seeking A Response?

      Go to hell!

      I'm Already Here.

      OK, so QUIT.

      Done.

      So I went out that day an' bought shoes an' sum way oily tapas took a while to lick offa my lips.

      Prolly it was a Toosday, but I could naht swear to that.
      Signature

      Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Max5ty, it's been a couple of weeks since you last got drunk. How's about you get drunk again this weekend and post about it? It's high time, I think and I'm a good thinker.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      Max5ty, it's been a couple of weeks since you last got drunk. How's about you get drunk again this weekend and post about it? It's high time, I think and I'm a good thinker.
      Actually, it's been years since I've been drunk.

      I've posted before, I'm up every day at around 5 and go jogging...I kind of consider myself a health nut (sorta). Been running for years. I clear my mind and get a lot of thinkin done on my runs...

      I joke around about getting drunk...maybe too much...I may have a couple of drinks here and there, but it's rare.

      Don't have anything against anyone that drinks, just really not my thing anymore
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  • Profile picture of the author JIBON SARKER
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by JIBON SARKER View Post

      The dog didn't eat my arm, this is an example for this tip
      I see what you're trying to do...

      but my advice as it pertains to this thread is to start with a boring piece of information first, and then hit the reader with some wow.

      Thanks for your comment
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  • Profile picture of the author Laila Destiny
    Wow!!! great tips. Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy Arrandale
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    Still reading?

    So I thought I'd give you a little tip. Had read about this again this week in a email and thought I'd pass it on.

    The dog didn't eat my arm, this is an example for this tip.

    One of the most important things about writing a piece, besides the headline, is the opening sentence.

    A lot of times people struggle and agonize to get it just right.

    This is a technique I like...and it seldom fails. It's called the u-turn.

    You write a boring sentence:

    Bob went to work.

    Mary got married.

    Then you throw in a zinger (a u-turn) that takes people by surprise in the next sentence or part of the sentence. Both of these sentences...or just the one extended sentence are the first paragraph. The reader is almost always guaranteed to keep reading if it's done right:

    Bob went to work today. His boss fired him yesterday.

    Lori got married today. Her fiance died last week.

    I did these quickly off the top of my head to show you a couple of examples.

    This technique is one of the most used techniques by top-notch writers that get results.

    I kept this simple so it would be easy to understand.

    You can play around with the technique and use the technique to fit your piece.

    Just a quick thought.

    Could be worth you trying it

    Here's my try from your excellent tip:

    "My Dad was involved in World War 2 before he got married and gave birth to me, then a virus got released when I was 50, and I, his son, was involved in World War Z.

    Better known as the Zombie Wars." (Buy my story sequel based on characters from the movie/buy this new supplement to keep your immune system strong even though there are really no such things as zombies lol/buy tickets to the Broadway stage version of Woeld War Z starring.../ etc etc )

    So fun!

    I like to think of this as kind of the "tell a story" style of copywriting or email writing, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author gdbakery
    Whoa, that's really enjoyable. Astute readers will see that this is a great way to generate attention-grabbing subject lines for emails.
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