Big opportunity but what should I charge?

2 years ago

Also-- if the email I sent could be useful for anyone, here it is:

Subject line: About Your X Course
"Hey [name], longtime fan here. I just sent you this email as an Instagram message but then I realized you have a business email lol.

Anyway, I wanted to tell you some stuff related to the X Course you mentioned in a recent video.

So firstly I'm glad that it seems all the bs that's happened in recent years is getting cleared up. Also really happy for you with all the work you seem to be doing in your personal life, with fitness and such.

I noticed you mentioned you're making a big X course and, whether you believe me or not, I was actually thinking about this idea some months ago lol.

See, I've been studying and mastering copywriting (the art of writing ads/sales pitches to sell products) for the past year or so. Specifically, direct response copywriting.

Not sure if you know what it is but, essentially, if you're a great copywriter, you have huge potential to make lots of money.

For example-- the main guy I studied (Gary Halbert) was the GOAT and his first successful promotion sold little family "coat of arms" directly through mail. Dude made hundreds of millions, his bank had to dedicate a whole floor to his money (and this was like 6 decades ago).

it's an incredible skill and, to cut to the point, I wanted to offer my help in writing a great sales pitch for your X course. As I said I've been studying copywriting hardcore for the past year or so and I've gotten pretty good.

But beyond that, I've taken scads and scads of notes (from material recommended by Gary Halbert himself) on all the proven and tested copywriting techniques.

JUST the notes are extremely valuable (I've been thinking up a way to sell them actually), and having someone who's got a good understanding of the principals is even more helpful.

X is pretty niche but honestly this situation is kind of perfect for this idea, since you are a X legend (people trust you)

A great sales pitch could enhance the amount of people who buy your course multiple times over. (and even keep providing you passive income for a long time, potentially)

Anyway, just wanted to offer my services. If you want the notes, I can send those to you absolutely free.

Also if you're interested in other material/courses I know of, I can point you in the right direction.

Just wanted to lend a little bit of help. Let me know if you'd be interested."

Thanks

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GordonJ

2 years ago

But it just may be a lunatic he's looking for.

You have nothing to lose, ask for the moon, 10k, 7.5% shows a lot more confidence.

You either can do this or you can't, so if you think you can, go ahead and prove it to him and yourself. I would be asking you tons of questions, in lieu of a portfolio, but go ahead, anyone who responded to THAT email, may be nuts himself, so go for it.

Good luck, strike while you still got balls, cause too many a copy guru are about to chop them off of you.

GordonJ

P.S. Your Halbert story is full of fantasy too, but that is for a different day.

Originally Posted by fruityUri

About a week ago I emailed a guy who's basically a celebrity.

He's going to make a huge 10 hour course for his niche. He has 1 million subscribers on YT and ~250k followers on Twitter. His fans love him and are loyal, and he's already given huge value to the community.

AND there are like, ONLY three other products like these in the niche (and they are very bare bones, with "eh" marketing).

Basically, it seems like an amazing opportunity and I offered to write copy for him. (I'm super familiar with the niche btw)

He responded, saying it sounded super interesting, asked what I charge and to see my portfolio.

So that's my question- what do I charge?

I have been studying copywriting (from Gary Halbert) for like a year.

Done everything he says to do in his "hands on experience" newsletter (I have so many goddamn notes), and written quite a few sales pitches.

I haven't worked for anybody to make an actual sales page (or other form of direct response material)

... though I have produced pretty good results for other work (increased open rates with headlines, increased subscribers for free stuff, and so on).

I really think I can help this guy produce some great copy and lots of sales.

This is what I plan to charge him:

3 different options but basically,

a fixed price of $5,000 and 5% of the sales for the first year...

...And I'll write ALL the copy to market his product and do everything I can to make it sell as much as possible (including tons of research, notes, reviewing my material to perfect copy, etc).

(also plan to offer a moneyback guarantee: if the course makes anything less than $50,000 in the first 3 months, I'll refund him everything. So if he pays me in fixed price more than 10% of what the course makes in 3 months, he gets a full refund.)

Essentially, here's what I'm asking:

Am I nuts?

Am I an arrogant ******* for trying to get a percentage deal?

Or am I charging too little?

Is my copy and insight valuable enough to charge (at most) 10% of what he will sell in the first 3 months?

I don't really have anybody to ask for advice on this, so I figured I'd post on the Warrior Forum.

This is my first post and I've been meaning to post more here (just gotten distracted with other stuff).

I greatly appreciate any insight anybody can give.

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fruityUri 2 years ago

Damn dude. Looks like I got a long way to go lol. Thanks.
- Thanks
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fruityUri

2 years ago

To give a bit more info about the project...

The niche is a competitive field. The celebrity guy is one of the GOATs of the field (for 3 years he literally he was untouchable).

It would be like if Tiger Woods came out with a mega course like- "Here's Everything I Did to Become the Best Golfer in History"... and there were NO other products in golf that came close to the depth of his course.

It seems like the perfect setup. He could get hundreds of thousands of views to his sales page completely free (and/or just upload a YT video as the sales page... where he recently got 380k views after not uploading in 5 months).

Add a bit of AIDA, connecting with the audience's emotional desires, create scarcity, copy bullets, and so on, and it seems to me like it could very well be a success.

That's why it feels like I shouldn't be charging that much.

Ah. Whatever. Think I just need to improve for now.

[edited by moderator: please do not solicit PMs or personal contact in posts]

Thanks
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GordonJ

2 years ago

Read max5ty posts, if you ever want your own jet, and tons of money, heed his advice.

Now, I'm serious about you giving it a shot. Your ignorance in this case, may be your advantage. It is all upside for you, not so much so for the GOAT, but maybe he knows nothing either about the nuts and bolts and inner operations, so... maybe...

it is a match made in the vaults of heaven.

My best advice to you for now...TODAY...is stop everything, and put together your proposal to him, and see what happens. I think mistake ONE was posting about it, cause, most of us with experience can see how doomed you are...but, what the hell do we know?

OR, you can get serious about copywriting and keep learning. But if you don't at least try, then you will always have the ghost of what could have been in the back cemetery of your brain.

Go for it.

GordonJ

Originally Posted by fruityUri

To give a bit more info about the project...

The niche is a competitive field. The celebrity guy is one of the GOATs of the field (for 3 years he literally he was untouchable).

It would be like if Tiger Woods came out with a mega course like- "Here's Everything I Did to Become the Best Golfer in History"... and there were NO other products in golf that came close to the depth of his course.

It seems like the perfect setup. He could get hundreds of thousands of views to his sales page completely free (and/or just upload a YT video as the sales page... where he recently got 380k views after not uploading in 5 months).

Add a bit of AIDA, connecting with the audience's emotional desires, create scarcity, copy bullets, and so on, and it seems to me like it could very well be a success.

That's why it feels like I shouldn't be charging that much.

Ah. Whatever. Think I just need to improve for now.

[edited by moderator: please do not solicit PMs or personal contact in posts]

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fruityUri 2 years ago

Greatly appreciate you responding and the advice. I think I will do both of what you say (but with a catch).

I'll send the proposal AND I'll start getting real about copywriting and trying to make money off my own stuff.

But...

If the GOAT responds, think I'll turn down the offer lol. He's actually one of the biggest inspirations in my life and I wouldn't want to pull a fast one on him.

(Also, apparently he's running a successful business currently. No idea what it is though).

But out of appreciation for your advice I went ahead and sent the proposal.
- Thanks
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max5ty

2 years ago

Hey fruityUri -

I agree with Gordon...also, I believe he personally knew Halbert so he could probably give you some inside stuff.

I've said many times if you're starting out, one of the best portfolios you can have is if you've taken your own product and were successful in selling it through your copywriting/marketing.

With everything available today you can literally take a product and start with $100 and build it into a money-making endeavor. Not only does this give you a chance to practice what you've studied, but also can make you wealthy...and gives you some street creds.

After reading what you've written about this guy's audience, I don't think this is a one-sales letter campaign...or should simply rely on a sales letter...

this should be a product launch and should start way before the product is released. The important copywriting would come in the drip info leading up to the big launch...

the day of the launch would have a sales letter, but in most people's minds, they should already be chomping at the bit to buy.

A good product launch is what often makes a product successful.

A lot to say on this but there are some good books already on launching a product.

It's good to see you're out there doing something and learning about copywriting

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fruityUri 2 years ago

Maxt5y,

Thanks. I will take your advice and see if I can start the process to getting that street cred.

I was actually gonna ask what the best way to practice copywriting outside of working for clients would be, but looks like selling my own stuff is the way. I definitely have money to at least try that a little bit, so time to do that.

Also yeah, I haven't studied product launches at all, but I figured that was how it would go (that was part of the plan I cooked up for the guy). But definitely not my expertise.

I'm gonna snoop around this forum more and see some different ways/ideas to sell products. I know a bit about Facebook advertising, Google ads, clickbank and other stuff... I think I just gotta start analyzing different markets and find opportunities
- Thanks
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- max5ty 2 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by fruityUri
  
  Maxt5y,
  
  Thanks. I will take your advice and see if I can start the process to getting that street cred.
  
  Thanks for your response...
  
  Pretty sure we all know we're coming up quickly on the busiest time of the year.
  
  Cyber Monday, Black Friday, and a whole list of other holidays.
  
  It's never too late to get started.
  
  One good thing about having your own product is instead of a 5% residual, you get a 100% residual. Haha
  
  Good luck with whatever you decide
  
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savidge4

2 years ago

Originally Posted by max5ty

I've said many times if you're starting out, one of the best portfolios you can have is if you've taken your own product and were successful in selling it through your copywriting/marketing.

With everything available today you can literally take a product and start with $100 and build it into a money-making endeavor. Not only does this give you a chance to practice what you've studied, but also can make you wealthy...and gives you some street creds.

I think we all say this over and over... and of course no one ever wants to hear it.

It just bears saying again... and again.... and again

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GordonJ

2 years ago

Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

I've said many times if you're starting out, one of the best portfolios you can have is if you've taken your own product and were successful in selling it through your copywriting/marketing.

With everything available today you can literally take a product and start with $100 and build it into a money-making endeavor. Not only does this give you a chance to practice what you've studied, but also can make you wealthy...and gives you some street creds.

Originally Posted by savidge4

I think we all say this over and over... and of course no one ever wants to hear it.

It just bears saying again... and again.... and again

And again.

PLUS, your own pithy advice on DOCUMENT the journey.

The problem, which has a simple solution, is made complicated by

Lack of purpose, lack of preparation, little to no business knowledge, limited skills...yet fueled by idea of today's IM, easy and anyone can do it.

We see people come here who haven't a clue as to what the first product should be, or how, when, etc., etc.

In your DOCUMENT YOUR JOURNEY mantra, lies a hidden clue...

Be the product.

Start with what you DO know, what you do have, what you have brought with you to this table. We've seen some pretty skilled, knowledgeable people come here, and months go by before they get around to doing anything.

So, first product? I have for decades made by disciples begin with a one page HOTSHEET. One page. ONE sheet of paper.

What? WHAT? I use Warrior Barb Ling as one example, and she has documented here, that one of her one page, I think she calls them cheatsheets, which she sold for 3 or 4 bux, pulled in a couple of thousand dollars in a matter of days.

Today, at JVzoo, Clickbank, and WarriorPlus, you can find many people selling HOW TO create simple one page, one web page, one piece of paper type things. Long before any of these existed, I wrote about creating HOTSHEETS.

Now, from there, I have had my followers go to a four page White Paper, and then to a 8 to 10 page report...ALL PRODUCTS which can be sold. Can be created quickly, offered to an audience, and built upon from there.

BUT, people love complicated, they like slop and mess, and making things difficult...they must, I see it here every single day.

Instead of overthinking, plotting, getting outside opinions, my 45 year old advice,

Start where you are at
with what you have
take it to the market
and listen to the feedback.

OR, go a few more months without doing anything, after all, one has all the time in the world to get a round tuit, eh?

GordonJ

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fruityUri 2 years ago

I watched this old Halbert seminar a couple months ago, and he talked about how there are some tiny pieces of information that could literally be life-changing to people, and that's what he sold in his little info products.

One example he gave was a way to save a bunch of money on a type of medicine. Basically, because US healthcare is lame, this medicine was expensive and people were getting screwed over (because they needed to take it consistently).

But if you were to ask your doctor (after they prescribe it) to simply order it from France, they would send it at a fraction of the price. It was completely legal.

Those details are off a bit I think lol, but that's pretty much it.

You gotta think-- just that bit of info could save you a lot of money. Would you pay for a guide with a bunch of money-saving methods like that?

Probably. You might even pay a good amount of money JUST for the little technique to save money on that medicine, if you consistently needed it.

I think everybody has little nuggets of info like that, that are super useful.

Copywriting links that value to the audience, and that's how you start getting feedback and ideas.

Or at least that's how I'm seeing it.
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max5ty

2 years ago

Originally Posted by GordonJ

The problem, which has a simple solution, is made complicated by

Lack of purpose, lack of preparation, little to no business knowledge, limited skills...yet fueled by idea of today's IM, easy and anyone can do it.

We see people come here who haven't a clue as to what the first product should be, or how, when, etc., etc.

Another thing I believe in is having a mentor. They can be invaluable.

Takes the right type of person. Myself, I don't have the patience.

I put up a post now and then to sometimes just keep the conversation of copywriting going...sometimes they're good and sometimes they suck

But you have a thread like Savidge4 did that is very time-consuming and detailed over many months that gives you a complete step-by-step course on everything you need to know to make money on eBay. Anyone looking to make money would be crazy to go out and buy a course when you can get a free one (and probably more detailed) by just reading the thread.

I've talked before about our little group that meets once a month to discuss business, marketing...anything really. It's like our little mentor association. Just being able to discuss issues with others can open up a world of ideas.

I believe, and it's my belief without researching it...but I believe most successful people have had someone they considered or still consider a mentor.

A mentor is invaluable in my opinion and experience

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GordonJ

2 years ago

too bad. HA! Actually, it is appreciated, this sub forum can get lonely. AND your expertise is highly regarded too. So thanks for that.

Can we talk a little about MENTORS? I agree, having had several, they were invaluable to me on my journey. First thing I want to distinguish is the difference between a mentor and a coach.

One argument is the pay, Mentors teach while coaches get paid. I think that may just be a bit too absolute, having done both myself. But the true mentors I've had, were HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL in their fields, gave freely of their time and knowledge (If I didn't abuse it) and were cheerleaders in my corner too. Some were brutal with their honesty, and some were not. Actually, now that I think about it, ALL of them were brutal.

And if they hadn't been, I might have not appreciated the lesson learnt.

Anyhow, I do think a good Mentor can make all the difference in a life.

What do you think about DEAD ones, or virtual mentors, like those guides Napoleon Hill used in Think And Grow Rich, when he called upon the wisdom of Ben Franklin, and other wizards of the past. He got their wisdom from their works, and often, their writings.

I like to think that I've had some invisible, long dead, mentors along the way, but it could just be my very overactive imagination. And of course it is!!

Anyhow, I'm up for a Mentor discussion, which hopefully, won't suck too bad, and if it does, oh well, it is for further discussion after all.

GordonJ

Originally Posted by max5ty

Another thing I believe in is having a mentor. They can be invaluable.

Takes the right type of person. Myself, I don't have the patience.

I put up a post now and then to sometimes just keep the conversation of copywriting going...sometimes they're good and sometimes they suck

But you have a thread like Savidge4 did that is very time-consuming and detailed over many months that gives you a complete step-by-step course on everything you need to know to make money on eBay. Anyone looking to make money would be crazy to go out and buy a course when you can get a free one (and probably more detailed) by just reading the thread.

I've talked before about our little group that meets once a month to discuss business, marketing...anything really. It's like our little mentor association. Just being able to discuss issues with others can open up a world of ideas.

I believe, and it's my belief without researching it...but I believe most successful people have had someone they considered or still consider a mentor.

A mentor is invaluable in my opinion and experience

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Princess Balestra

2 years ago

1. Down All Hopperzitchschwaan.
2. Frequently into the yondah.
3. Yusself. 100% Up. Often asya can.
4. Evrywan Meetsya Gaze: Up Foist, Togethah 2nd. 'Tis Love.
5. All Comers to Followya.
6. Incrementally & Scoopatatime, kinda how 1+2+3+4+5 don't equal zacto math kinda 6 on the die, nor'n prolly any numbah.

Run yr What Should I Charge Q forward, on through muh 1-6 here like a natchrl person jus' readin' stuff out aloud, an' you gaht noo strategies, mebbe.

Or you jus' wanna shoot yusself.

Or Moi.

You should charge ...

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max5ty

2 years ago

@ GordonJ -

I may have misspoke...

I actually meant coach. But honestly didn't know the difference until you pointed it out.

I started my door-to-door sales thing at 10 (1970) trying to sell those chain alarms for doors. Didn't go well. I sold 1 and that was to my piano teacher (I still can't play the piano), and I believe she ratted me out to my mom who put an end to the whole operation.

I had a newspaper route business that financed all these failures.

Then I moved on to direct mail at about age 12. I would buy those rub-off stencils at the hobby store and do a headline and all and then type the letter and make copies. I'd address the envelope...put a stamp on them and mail them out. I'm not talking thousands at a time, I'm talking like 20 or 30. The operation didn't work. Looking back, it's good it didn't because I was putting my home address on the envelopes...can't imagine what my mom would have done had my venture been successful and checks tarted arriving in the mail.

I discovered copywriting by reading books at the local library.

I tried one thing after the other for years. Wish I could say I was one of those child prodigies that hit it big...but that wasn't me.

Did have someone tell me on here that I was trolling one day. This from a guy that was probably in his 30s and discovered copywriting like a year before. It upset me, but was thinking I'd been in this game since before he was born and let it slide.

But, having droned on with all that...

if I was starting out now...or for anyone starting out...

a coach can save you a ton of time.

You talk about the hot sheets which I think are awesome. If someone hired you to coach them in that and made a good profit, it would be worth every penny they spent.

A coach can fast-track you to success. And a good coach pays for themselves many times over.

I'm not pretending to know a whole lot about coaching...but I have heard story after story of people saying a good coach is worth every penny.

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GordonJ

2 years ago

We can be flexible and discuss both, yes? Coaches and mentors. Since I have been on both sides of the desk, maybe we can find some gold in this discussion too.

My journey, also began at 10 door-to-door selling fresh picked flowers and discovering MAGIC WORDS, so said my "mentor" at the time, a neighborhood insurance salesman who told me there were magic words....

those turned out to be SPIDERS, SNAKES AND MICE, oh my, and I've made both a video and audio of it several years ago. He sent me home with two books, by the Elmers, Wheeler and Leterman. I guess those were my first virtual mentors.

Amazing how so many began in childhood on their path to Entrepreneurship, isn't it?

I no longer coach, and seldom mentor, but my daughter is a coach, public speaker trainer and is in the trenches of today.

I agree, HIRING a coach can be a real shortcut and pathway to success. My caveat is and always has been, as long as they don't offer an off the shelf solution for your very personal journey.

Find a coach that evaluates and assesses your strengths and weaknesses and helps develop a plan of action based on that.

My advice, avoid coaches who say; do it my way or the highway. Blueprints are great for buildings, some business ideas, but rarely does one guys blueprint match with the other person's personality and skill set.

I can easily be challenged on this point, sure there are those who have had a do it my way or the highway guru and loved it.

So, coach or mentor, can we open the floor on that discussion?

GordonJ

Originally Posted by max5ty

@ GordonJ -

I may have misspoke...

I actually meant coach. But honestly didn't know the difference until you pointed it out.

I started my door-to-door sales thing at 10 (1970) trying to sell those chain alarms for doors. Didn't go well. I sold 1 and that was to my piano teacher (I still can't play the piano), and I believe she ratted me out to my mom who put an end to the whole operation.

I had a newspaper route business that financed all these failures.

Then I moved on to direct mail at about age 12. I would buy those rub-off stencils at the hobby store and do a headline and all and then type the letter and make copies. I'd address the envelope...put a stamp on them and mail them out. I'm not talking thousands at a time, I'm talking like 20 or 30. The operation didn't work. Looking back, it's good it didn't because I was putting my home address on the envelopes...can't imagine what my mom would have done had my venture been successful and checks tarted arriving in the mail.

I discovered copywriting by reading books at the local library.

I tried one thing after the other for years. Wish I could say I was one of those child prodigies that hit it big...but that wasn't me.

Did have someone tell me on here that I was trolling one day. This from a guy that was probably in his 30s and discovered copywriting like a year before. It upset me, but was thinking I'd been in this game since before he was born and let it slide.

But, having droned on with all that...

if I was starting out now...or for anyone starting out...

a coach can save you a ton of time.

You talk about the hot sheets which I think are awesome. If someone hired you to coach them in that and made a good profit, it would be worth every penny they spent.

A coach can fast-track you to success. And a good coach pays for themselves many times over.

I'm not pretending to know a whole lot about coaching...but I have heard story after story of people saying a good coach is worth every penny.

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Kay King

2 years ago

I think a 'mentor' is simple - anyone who knows MORE than you do about what you want to do or want to learn...can be a mentor for a while.

Some will stick around with encouragement and act as a sounding board...most mentors will move on (or you will) and help someone else.

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One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

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Frank Donovan

2 years ago

I've always thought of a mentor as someone more experienced - usually in the same organization or business as you - who offers advice and acts as a sounding board. It's almost always unpaid.

A coach is a professional who's hired to improve performance. While there have been some effective coaches (in sport, for example) who enter the profession armed with only an officially-recognized qualification, in business, it's best to avoid anyone calling themselves a coach who hasn't has previous business success themselves. That also goes for those running business courses.

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savidge4

2 years ago

Gonna touch on a couple of things. Lets start with the bottom of the barrel... FAILURE... read through Max5ty and GordonJ's response and there is a pattern.... My path also started young...and I had my success' and boy have I had some failures. Ive had 2 failures this week, and its well was MONDAY. The point is... we started... time and again and again. Success is a journey...and its riddled with stepping stones of failure. If you are not failing, you will never succeed.. and if all you have done is succeed... oh trust me there will be a failure in your path that will take your breath away - mark my words.

I have mentors at all levels of my life...My Son is a mentor - My wife - My employees - My friends - my business associates - My clients - The lady in a wheelchair at the grocery store that asks for help to get an item - the homeless person you walk past. Elon Musk..will probably never meet the guy but I sure can study his interviews and such.

There is something to learn from EVERYONE that crosses your path. Its NOT always a lesson in what to do... many times its a lesson in what NOT to do. Trust me.. I love my parents... but they were the worst... I learned what NOT to do - and my son and my wife are all the happier because I learned that lesson.

Coaches... cant say that I have had many - I have always kind of beat my own drum. But i do coach... and ironically I am the my way or the highway type - working on that ( not really ) and I am at my best in person - im just tuned into body language. and that being said....

I think my greatest growth has been surrounding myself with Peers and not employees or friends if that makes sense? I dont think that anyone in my inner circle is an equal.. but has aspects that are greater and lessor - there is a balance. My strength - Your Weakness and visa versa Your strength and my weakness. Its a process of learning to sit down and shut up when you dont know what you dont know - which ultimately drives knowledge in both directions.

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max5ty 2 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I have mentors at all levels of my life...

Thanks, I enjoyed your comment.

I like your definition of a mentor and coach.

I've always had at least one mentor in every part of what I do. Marketing, advertising, etc.

For copywriting, Clayton Makepeace was always someone that I thought was one of the best. He had a way with words that is and has been unmatched. Although he was more into the long sales letter...and it never was my preferred method...

Yes, Halbert was good too, and to deny that would just be jealousy (which is rampant in the copywriting world), but I always thought Clayton was superior.

I always loved to read Clayton's blog posts.

He coached new copywriters. He called them copy cubs.

A couple of them used to post on this forum...not sure where they've gone or what they're doing now...

but anyways, he used to sometimes be so tough on them that he almost had them in tears.

They'd spend hours on a piece and he'd rip it to shreds. Some gave up...but the ones that kept going appreciated his "my way or the highway" type training (as you say).

I loved his work with AWAI and all the help he gave there also.

Over the last few months, I noticed an escalation of ads on FB for attracting high-ticket clients for coaching. The ads were almost nonstop. I realize a lot of the ads we see were because we clicked on them...but I thought it was getting ridiculous...

people talking about coaching for ads and all that other mumbo jumbo...

ever notice when a new course comes out you see a rash of ads for the same thing?

Have been seeing a lot of ads for credit repair also. One day I think I saw like 5...all from different people. Didn't see the webinar...but I was sure there was one that had happened.

I think Don Lapre was one of the first ones to come up with the credit repair thing? Who by the way was the first and only time I ever ordered anything off of T.V...it was his tiny classified ad thing where he said he made $50K a month from his tiny one-bedroom apartment. That was in the early 90s I believe.

Anyways, just a couple of rambling thoughts. My girlfriend and I are getting ready to start a little vacation over the next few weeks. Looking for some new investments and looking to unload some...although she made me promise to keep work to a minimum. Haha

I enjoyed your eBay thread and think that's a classic that everyone should read...

and of course Gordon's stuff...he's a legend and full of advice that can only be had through a lot of experience
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Frank Donovan

2 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I have mentors at all levels of my life...My Son is a mentor - My wife - My employees - My friends - my business associates - My clients - The lady in a wheelchair at the grocery store that asks for help to get an item - the homeless person you walk past. Elon Musk..will probably never meet the guy but I sure can study his interviews and such.

There is something to learn from EVERYONE that crosses your path. Its NOT always a lesson in what to do... many times its a lesson in what NOT to do. Trust me.. I love my parents... but they were the worst... I learned what NOT to do - and my son and my wife are all the happier because I learned that lesson.

These are great points. Learning is an active process. You have to accept that the process depends on your own actions. Lessons aren't given - they're taken.

I have nothing against coaches per se, but too many people starting out seem to view a coach as a short-cut to learning - a sort of off-the-peg, instant - and mostly passive - education.

If you're curious enough and accept that there'll always be more to learn than you'll ever be able to know, you can absolutely learn from everybody and every situation. You actually have a duty to yourself to do so.

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GordonJ

2 years ago

Learning is an active process.

So, I didn't think too many people read this subforum, turns out, it only takes one past coaching student...who has called me out into the street, and it isn't even high noon yet.

Turns out, according to him, who invested several hundred dollars with me, got told to hit the highway, to go down the road...because he didn't do things my way.

OH boy. But give me a quick minute for self defense, OK?

I told him to hit the bricks because he failed to deliver an assignment on time, and that was one of the conditions set before I took any money. Sure, Shat happens.

But there are only so many typhoons, mudslides, hurricanes, dog eating the homework sort of excuses which deserve a free pass...but when someone simply got busy and didn't have time? Hit the road Jack, and don't look back no more, no more.

Maybe it is just a perspective? I don't know. I think once an agreement is reached, and the terms clearly agreed to, not some gray font capital letters used by many...but clear and concise this is what I do, this is what you do language.

Then, if they don't follow directions, adios amigo/a s

Maybe it depends on where they are at, and what they already bring with them, but for the sake of this discussion,

I STAND CORRECTED.

Sometimes, maybe a lot of the time, perhaps even most...your student/mentee must do as you say or they are not a good fit for your assistance.

Still, a personal approach, more customized, might be a better fit than an off the rack solution...however, many exceptions.

I feel a lot weasel words in my mea culpa, so to man up...

I WAS WRONG.

GordonJ

Having one ex wife, I now must accept I have been wrong at least twice in my life.

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

These are great points. Learning is an active process. You have to accept that the process depends on your own actions. Lessons aren't given - they're taken.

I have nothing against coaches per se, but too many people starting out seem to view a coach as a short-cut to learning - a sort of off-the-peg, instant - and mostly passive - education.

If you're curious enough and accept that there'll always be more to learn than you'll ever be able to know, you can absolutely learn from everybody and every situation. You actually have a duty to yourself to do so.

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Frank Donovan 2 years ago

Originally Posted by GordonJ

Still, a personal approach, more customized, might be a better fit than an off the rack solution...however, many exceptions.

I think it depends on what was promised or agreed at the outset, and the level of ability and experience of the student.

Any coach/student relationship requires commitment from both parties, but ultimately, it's the student who has to act if any real learning is going to take place.

It might just have been a bad fit, but I'd say ignoring clear instructions without contributing anything in the way of constructive feedback shows a lack of commitment from that student, who was either not ready for or unwilling to act on the training.

So I don't think you were wrong. This isn't high school - a student has to take responsibilty for choosing a course of training suited to their ability, intentions and application.
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Princess Balestra

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

These are great points. Learning is an active process. You have to accept that the process depends on your own actions. Lessons aren't given - they're taken.

Back in' the day, I had a big dream to become the ultimate SPANKAH.

So I read an' re-read alla the classics, like Madam Doublevision's "Easy Slaps You Can Make During Everyday Chats in The Store Without Getting Arrested" ... an' "Bleeding Is Surrender. Blushing Is Attack." (dunno who this was written by bcs I gaht it in a flea market an' the covah & chaptah 3 been bitten off) ... plus also I paid &79.99 for a frickin' signatchah spatulah from sum slebrity chef gal from Peru an' massaged muh thighs with it vigrsly before tryin' it out for real on a guy named Quentin.

Naht my fault: that was his actschwl name.

Anyways, whatevah skill you wanna level up at, you gotta do the groundwork foist.

From the bottom up.

Like Eiffel hisself said of his famous towah: start with the foundation and end with the exhilaration, taking care to make the journey from one to the other as impossible as you possibly can.

I gaht no doubt he woulda been the worstest inventah of comfort bras EVAH.

Yeah but he gtg on erectin' a spectacle gonna be gorged by zillions.

Meanwhile Brad Pitt figures he dun' sumthin' of consequence bcs he sculpchaahd out with Nick Cave in sum noplace arena fulla sycofanti.

Herein lies my desiah to slap out!

Bruise sweet steada bleed terminyool!

I ain't crool, zackly -- I jus' wanna be inspirationyool.

Try sayin' THAT 'bout Satan, see what happens, tellya ...

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Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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fruityUri

2 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Gonna touch on a couple of things. Lets start with the bottom of the barrel... FAILURE... read through Max5ty and GordonJ's response and there is a pattern.... My path also started young...and I had my success' and boy have I had some failures. Ive had 2 failures this week, and its well was MONDAY. The point is... we started... time and again and again. Success is a journey...and its riddled with stepping stones of failure. If you are not failing, you will never succeed.. and if all you have done is succeed... oh trust me there will be a failure in your path that will take your breath away - mark my words.

This is a such an important point I feel.

And I think the key to not just dealing with failure, but mastering it, lies in how you view yourself.

The other day, I was reading about this study where little kids (I think ~5 y/o) were given different types of praise after they completed a task...

One group of kids were told "you're very smart!".
The others were told "you're very hardworking!".

They studied what happened in the kids' lives and, the pattern was that the kids praised as "smart" almost always tended to get lower and lower grades the further they went in their school education.

Not only that, they tended to shy away from difficult situations later in life (situations that required failure).

Whereas the "hardworking" praised kids eagerly attacked difficult situations... Cause they wanted to prove they were hardworking.

Also, it seems like hard work (that's also efficient/"smart" work) is the common element in successful people.

I don't know whether I view myself as a "smart" guy or "hardworking" guy, but I do know that my grades began to fall around when highschool started, and I've also had some failures in life that messed me up quite a bit.

However-- I also know that for the past 6 months or so, I've basically been doing nothing but failing lol. Trying to get freelancing jobs, get better at writing and copywriting, improve my work ethic and so on. There's been plenty of "action fakes" in there but I do think I'm moving more towards "forget failure and stick to the process".

And. This was all a calculated move from me... cause I knew that hard work was important and I had to start feeling proud that I was a hard, persistent worker.

Also-- there's been a lot of very insightful posts in this thread, thanks everybody!

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savidge4

2 years ago

Originally Posted by fruityUri

However-- I also know that for the past 6 months or so, I've basically been doing nothing but failing lol. Trying to get freelancing jobs, get better at writing and copywriting, improve my work ethic and so on. There's been plenty of "action fakes" in there but I do think I'm moving more towards "forget failure and stick to the process".

I personally see this another way... you havent been failing the last 6 months, you have been building skill sets.

You decide today you want to be a brain surgeon - you will be building skill sets for the next 12 years?

You decide you want to be a lawyer - the next 8 years

Just because your not "going to college" and getting a degree does NOT mean that the amount of education is any less - the amount of skill set building is as time consuming of not more so.

I often times compare this to investing... and instead of the investment of money... building skill sets that will pay off in time... is just that, an investment in time.

You are working hard... you are swinging the bat... your in the game - and thats better than most others starting out.

I might suggest, as long as you are doing what you have a passion for...its not work - its enjoyable. Win, Lose or Draw at the end of the day, you are spending time doing what you enjoy - there are F E W people in this world that can say that.

If you stay the course, you will make it - its a given. Experience and knowledge does not come over night.

I am guessing you are 20 something...you have a whole life in front of you - stick with it, and enjoy the ride.

just remember... your NOT failing... you are on the path to success, and "Failure" is just a part of the path, to learn and grow from.

Do something today that will make tomorrow easier - and sometimes that failure... because tomorrow you probably wont make the same mistake - and I say "probably" because lord knows I will make the same mistake a second or tenth time before realizing I was getting hit over the head with a 2x4 stamped with the words "Choose Again"

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Success is an ACT not an idea

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max5ty

2 years ago

So all this talk about coaches...

and me always saying if you're starting out to sell your own product -

I was thinking today I'll do just that so anyone interested can follow along.

I'll take a product...probably in the health/beauty/fitness niche and sell it.

I'll start at the beginning and see if I can make it a go. I'll be completely open step by step...successes and failures.

I'll set a starting budget of around $100? because I'll try and recreate what someone starting out would have.

Savidge4's post and all this talk on this thread convinced me that it's better to show than to tell someone how to do something.

As I said earlier, we're leaving for a little vacation for a couple of weeks in the morning so I'll start the thread around the middle of October.

I imagine I would need to do it in the warrior path area.

Anyways, just my thought for today

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DWolfe 2 years ago

Originally Posted by max5ty

I imagine I would need to do it in the warrior path area.

Anyways, just my thought for today

Yes, please put it in the Path section. One of the Moderators will quickly approve it if it follows the Path Guidelines. Looking forward to it!
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visimedia

2 years ago

just a matter of strategy. Personally, I'll go with your initial plan which is being presented:
normally it's $10k with 10% for all sales but for you it's:
$5k n 5% for all sales

because you want to add that course to your portfolio which will open more doors for you right after that. Use his fame, which the money can't buy in a short period of time.

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