The Ugliest Sales Letter I have ever seen

78 replies
Seriously, I couldn't read this one because of how ugly it was. Coming from these two I am really surprised by the look.

An invitation from Jay Abraham & Dan Kennedy
#letter #sales #ugliest
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      Oh and did I mention the zero refund policy. So much for risk reversal.

      Tim
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        It's Jay Abraham and Dan Kennedy at one seminar.

        First time ever.

        Between the two of them, they probably have a combined house list of 100,000+ people... most of whom have eagerly bought from them before.

        At 100,000 people on their lists, they'd have to pull 0.5% to book 500 people in the room.

        Layout or not, my prediction is that it will sell out for them.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
          Mike -

          It will sell out - no doubt - but it is lazy and made me not want to drop the 7k he is asking. Seriously look at sales letters asking for $27 - they are 100 times better laid out than this one.

          Again they'll get their money, but not from me!

          tim
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
            Neither Abraham or Kennedy are online guys.

            They are old-school, offline DM guys. Dan Kennedy likes to say that he doesn't even have an email address or a cell phone.

            I'm sure that whatever offline marketing they do for it will have a stronger layout than the webpage. If they are truly worried about it, they'll hire someone off Elance for $200 to make it look pretty. <grin>

            No offense Tim but you aren't one of the prospects that they are targeting. Neither is 99.5% of the rest of the world.

            Look at all of their pre-qualifications... limited to 150 attendees. So my previous example of a 100,000 house list... now they need about 0.1% conversion rate to sell it out.

            Then there's no risk reversal. In short, they want the people who don't care about a money-back guarantee and will gladly spend $7K for their seminar.
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              • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
                Mike -

                I am not the target guy you're right. But think about if you are. Lets see for 7k you can buy a hell of a watch, some fancy pens, a custom made peddle bike, custom golf clubs, etc.

                Or you can read some drivel that looks like a 4 year old put it together and slapped it on a webpage.

                I can't do much, but I bet I could beat the formatting.

                At any rate, they'll sell out and then talk about how you to can send a POS looking sales letter and sell out your 7k event.

                Tim
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
                  Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

                  Mike -

                  I am not the target guy you're right. But think about if you are. Lets see for 7k you can buy a hell of a watch, some fancy pens, a custom made peddle bike, custom golf clubs, etc.

                  Or you can read some drivel that looks like a 4 year old put it together and slapped it on a webpage.

                  I can't do much, but I bet I could beat the formatting.

                  At any rate, they'll sell out and then talk about how you to can send a POS looking sales letter and sell out your 7k event.

                  Tim
                  I'm definitely not their target guy b/c I tend to be a bit of a cheapskate. If I'm dropping $7K right now, it would be on something like buying more stock or buying a foreclosure property as a rental property or hiring a bunch of freelancers to build sites and other assets for my business instead.

                  Plus I already own everything that Jay and Dan sell, along with a bunch of the other marketing gurus. My office has 3 six-foot tall bookcases filled with marketing, copywriting, and business related books & courses. I have a 6-8 month backlog on my personal info-product studying because of how busy I already am writing client copy. Client copy means I'm studying their products as part of the research, so I'm already spending a lot of time in educational mode.

                  I think Hugh said it better than me. The people who will overlook the unpretty layout and gladly drop $7K to get to spend 3 days with Jay and Dan are their target prospects.

                  Mike
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            • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
              I couldn't look at it for longer than 5 seconds. The problem is that your average internet consumer doesn't really care, which is why I think they'll get away with it.

              Still...seriously...hire someone to make it look sharp.
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  • Profile picture of the author hjalte81
    hehe... it's almost like they've tried to use every font possible
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    I think this brings up a huge point. To me, it really shows
    that credibility and having a 'name' can be exponentially
    more persuasive than any sales letter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    I'm really impressed by the business acumen of both of these guys. However, the sales letter's appearance doesn't reflect the astuteness of their expertise.

    Looking at the sales letter, I believe they followed their own principle of "maximum possible speed" in assembling this promotion. But I think they missed out on their own principle of leveraging what their contacts' contacts know about tools and technology. Surely within one or two degrees of separation there's a superb graphic designer who could have made a great looking site that still had a "street smart scrappy underdog" feel to it.

    Even with its mistakes, it's far from the ugliest sales letter I've ever seen. Get your first aid kit ready (and 3d glasses), then check these out: The Ugliest / Worst Business Web Sites of 2009 -- from Web Pages That Suck - learn good web design by looking at bad web design.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Jag82
    Let me just say it.

    The formatting of the salescopy flat out sucks. Big big time.

    Yes, I know these are gurus we are talking about
    (I admire them both a hell lot).

    But seriously, can't they put in a bit more effort in their salescopy?

    Doesn't do justice to their expertise in my view.

    Jag
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  • Profile picture of the author cgallagher93
    Ouch...

    That's absolutely awful. Design isn't such an important element as everyone makes out, but when something isn't readable and looks THAT ugly that's really going to harm conversions.

    I heard that was a million-dollar launch though, which just goes to show that appearances aren't everything...

    Cheers,

    Connor
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    • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
      It is ugly. I wonder why.

      Maybe that question is the one we should be asking.

      We know that Dan Kennedy and Jay Abraham are two of the top marketing experts on the planet. If they WANTED it to look nice and pretty, they would have. They write sales copy for websites that would look stunning. They have the pick of the world's TOP developers at their fingertips. Even if its rushed they could still have a great looking page out in 24 hours.

      So, we have to conclude that it's done on purpose.

      My guess is that they are repelling the people they don't want. If you aren't totally committed then you wont read the site and wont attend. If a money back guarantee is so important to you then you're probably not the person they want either. They're weeding out the ones they dont want there, so they only get the best and most enthusiastic.

      PS. You do have a guarantee. They're guaranteeing it with their reputations.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
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          • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
            Trust me on this, neither Jay or Dan had anything to do with this letter.

            It's atrocious.

            If you study Jay's work for any period of time, Jay's copy leaves breadcrumbs. His style is obvious. Dan's the same, but in a different way.

            As for proving anything, these guys don't have to prove anything. They are way, way beyond that.

            This program is totally about the opportunity and THE MONEY.

            I strongly believe someone has bolted a deal together between Jay and Dan and is executing best they can. They suck at copywriting, but they suck worse at formatting.

            NOBODY will part with $7K because of this letter alone. This webpage has GOT to be part of an over-arching marketing campaign, a product launch, if you will.

            - Rick Duris

            PS: Putting 150 people into a $7K program should not be underestimated, especially right now. I know these guys make it SEEM easy on the outside, especially with their brand. No matter. It is not. It never is. And my sincere respect goes out to the dealmaker taking this endeavor on. He/she has his work cut out for them. And I truly hope they do well.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jag82
        Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

        So, we have to conclude that it's done on purpose.

        My guess is that they are repelling the people they don't want.
        Sorry.

        I don't buy this at all.

        They probably left the copy
        to someone else.

        The whole thing is atrocious.

        I don't see any benefit of
        crafting a hardly
        readable copy on purpose.

        Guru or not, it's not really
        professional, isn't it?

        Well it sell out? Highly likely.

        But I dare say the event will
        sell out much faster if the whole
        thing was properly.

        Jag
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  • Profile picture of the author Bitethehand
    Well whilst it might be ugly, its achieving exposure simply for being ugly. Would I have read the letter had it been nicely put together? No...

    So for that reason, well done to the boys!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      Originally Posted by Bitethehand View Post

      Well whilst it might be ugly, its achieving exposure simply for being ugly. Would I have read the letter had it been nicely put together? No...

      So for that reason, well done to the boys!!!
      Well done to the boys?

      Did you plonk down your $7K?

      These guys are direct response "gurus". In direct response, it doesn't matter if people read the copy and admired your style/design/chutzpah/cojones. What matters is that they got your pitch and the cash register went "ding!"

      And, P.S. I didn't read the letter. Anyone who doesn't respect my time or my intelligence enough to give me a clearly written, clearly laid-out piece of marketing material doesn't deserve one second of my time or one cent of my money.

      It goes beyond a simple respect thing, too. It goes to credibility and connection with the reader. When your marketing material shows that you believe your prosects will accept any piece of crap that you serve up, by extension you're telling those prospects they can expect crap for their $7K. And, by god, they'll like it.

      (BTW: There is a really good chance that anyone who drops the bucks will come out of this raving about how awesoooommmmeeee the whole thing was. Not because it was that good; rather because that's how humans are wired. People like to believe that when they pay the equivalent of a downpayment on a house for a Jaguar, they're not really driving a Ford.)

      Subtle is spot on: This piece of dreck drips disdain for their readers from every pixel.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr.Cash
    My god that it bad. Those guys are legends in the industry. Perhaps their running some elaborate test to see how it impacts conversions before they start changing it bit by bit into a proper full on sales page.

    *Either that or they had a pet chimp write it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Maybe they are using the ugliness of the letter as a disqualifier
    so it's just another hoop for you to jump through so they get
    the most qualified candidates possible.

    Just my guess.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Maybe the are using the ugliness of the letter as a disqualifier
      so it's just another hoop for you to jump through so they get
      the most qualified candidates possible.

      Just my guess.

      -Ray Edwards
      Like people who have the opportunity to be in the same room as 2 of the greatest marketers walking the planet for 3 whole days, and all they wanna do is complain because the sales copy is ugly.

      The people they want there will see Dan Kennedy and Jay Abraham, ignore the copy and go straight to the order form.
      Signature

      Ever wondered how copywriters work with their clients? I've answered that very question in detail-> www.salescomefirst.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Jag82
        Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

        The people they want there will see Dan Kennedy and Jay Abraham, ignore the copy and go straight to the order form.
        Hi Hugh,

        After some reflection and seeing the Dan Kennedy's
        salespage example by Paul, I think there could
        be some truth to what you, Mike and Ray have said.

        This could be used to qualify only the most
        targeted prospects.

        I know I'm not one of them. Because I just
        couldn't bring myself to read through the whole letter.

        And I'm saying this as someone who is quite a
        big fan of both of these marketers' work.

        If this is really an intentional qualification strategy,
        then I must say I have learnt something new.

        Thanks for your perspective, Hugh.

        Cheers,
        Jag
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    • Profile picture of the author MaxReferrals
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Maybe they are using the ugliness of the letter as a disqualifier
      so it's just another hoop for you to jump through so they get
      the most qualified candidates possible.

      Just my guess.

      -Ray Edwards

      I think Ray nailed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    I've never bought the argument that gurus are excused from practicing what they preach. It's illogical and worse, it's inexcusable. I read this page more than 20 years ago and I've never forgotten it:

    Why not the best?: the first fifty years - Google Books
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    • Profile picture of the author MADULALI
      Ugly...

      However,knowing Jay and Dan, I studied the letter from a different angle to see what they were trying to accomplish.

      Trying to figure out the reason why they did what they did?

      I guess it is worth studying.

      Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author AffiliateJ
      Yeah the sales letter looks poor. So what?

      This will be the status shortly:

      Aim: Sell out the seats, at full price.
      Sales letter: who cares.
      Completed? Yes.

      These two guys could create a sales letter which said:

      -----

      Jay and Dan are getting together to discuss business ideas for a couple days. If you want to listen in it'll be $7k.

      [order button]

      -----

      And it would still sell out. Why waste time with a pretty sales letter when your aim will be achieved anyway?

      As for anyone who wants to go but chooses not to go based on the salesletter. Are they missing out on your money? No - all seats will be sold no matter what. Are you missing out on their info? Yes you are.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andy Wood
        Originally Posted by AffiliateJ View Post

        Why waste time with a pretty sales letter when your aim will be achieved anyway?
        Professional pride my friend - after all these guys are holding themselves as teachers. They should take some pride in what they are churning out!

        No excuses - the effort they needed to put in to verify what someone else no doubt produced on their behalf is minimal.
        Signature

        =================================
        Andy Wood - Featured in the Who's Who of Business Elite - how cool is that eh!

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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by Andy Wood View Post

          Professional pride my friend - after all these guys are holding themselves as teachers. They should take some pride in what they are churning out!

          No excuses - the effort they needed to put in to verify what someone else no doubt produced on their behalf is minimal.
          Churning out?

          Both of them are known as primarily legendary OFFLINE marketers. Jay is well-known for discussing more business systems, joint ventures, and so on... In the past, he's deferred to other speakers to teach copywriting at his big ticket bootcamps.

          Dan has shifted most of the 'teach copywriting' stuff over to his business partner Bill Glazer.

          Both of them have trained some big-league copywriters in the past.

          Both of them have written some smoking hot copy in the past as well.

          Neither one of probably have even tried to upload a webpage personally, let alone create one.

          I gotta agree with Rick Duris on this one... I think someone who put the deal together wrote it and I don't think copywriting is their forte.

          I think this webpage is just one small piece of a huge marketing campaign that is slowly being launched. The event is about 2 months away so they do have some time.

          I'll be curious to see what direct mail pieces I get from both of them... should be some serious swipe file material IMHO.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jag82
        Originally Posted by AffiliateJ View Post


        These two guys could create a sales letter which said:

        -----

        Jay and Dan are getting together to discuss business ideas for a couple days. If you want to listen in it'll be $7k.

        [order button]

        -----

        And it would still sell out.

        If they can sell out the event with that 2 lines, then
        why not do so? It will still be better than putting up a
        hardly readable, poorly formatted sales letter.

        I recognize that this could be a qualification
        strategy. But I think there are better ways to do it.

        While Jay Abraham and Dan Kennedy are world-renowned
        marketers, I bet that there are many other potential
        clients who have not heard of them out there who will be
        scared off by that letter.

        Why kill off future lifetime clients?

        Jag
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      • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
        Originally Posted by AffiliateJ View Post


        Jay and Dan are getting together to discuss business ideas for a couple days. If you want to listen in it'll be $7k.

        [order button]
        Bingo! Spot on.

        Jay and Dan are the only two words that matter on that page.
        Signature

        Ever wondered how copywriters work with their clients? I've answered that very question in detail-> www.salescomefirst.com
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

          I'll wait for it to come on video....
          You could be waiting until your next lifetime then. Neither one of them do much in the way of video info-products. They focus on audio products and print instead.

          Why?

          Because their target market isn't internet marketers. Or copywriters really.

          Nope.

          Their target market is business owners who like rolling their sleeves up and doing their own marketing. Most of them are doing offline marketing -- not online... although they are starting to break into it. Their target market likes reading books & manuals. They like hearing audio programs, especially ones that they can listen to in the car while they're driving into the office.

          At least that's paraphrasing what Bill Glazer said in presentation I heard last year.

          In this case, they want the most successful 6 figure-producing business owners that want to elevate their business to 7 figures (or more) -- regardless of what anyone tells them about the global economy.

          No offense to anyone reading this but 99.9% of the Warrior Forum members (including me) aren't their ideal prospect for their upcoming $7K seminar for any number of reasons.

          Between Jay, Dan, and whoever put this deal together, they probably have mailing lists with over 100K people on them. Each of them have tens of thousands of previous buyers.

          They want 150 seats filled. With 100K of prospective buyers, we're talking less than 0.5% conversion rate to do it.

          Yes, the copy and layout are bad.

          But copy and layout aren't the most important factors.

          Copy is actually the 3rd most important after targeting the right prospects and making the right offer.

          As Gary Halbert once said, he'll take the starving crowd everytime.

          So let's review.

          Targeted prospects, hungry for Jay and Dan's teachings. Probably over 100,00 of them.

          Check.

          Targeted offer, with a double twist of scarcity added in (Jay and Dan together for the first time ever -- only 150 seats).

          Check.

          A serviceable sales letter that leads to an order form.

          Check.

          Will it sell out as fast as it could if they used a strong, tightly written sales letter?

          Of course not.

          But it probably won't matter.

          Knowing Jay and Dan's work, that online sales letter is just one small piece of their total marketing effort.

          They'll track their marketing and if any piece of the marketing is doing badly, they'll replace it.

          My 3 cents,

          Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

            They'll track their marketing and if any piece of the marketing is doing badly, they'll replace it.

            My 3 cents,

            Mike
            Mike, it's amazing that a guy who comes from Philly can be that smart.

            J/K.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I don't wanna hear anybody knock one of my sales letters again.

        All kidding aside, and yes, I am old, but take a good look at this sales letter
        and then go open up a newspaper or magazine from the 1960s folks. This is
        the look they were going for, at least in my neck of the woods. I recognized
        this as soon as I saw it.

        Take a look at some really old ads from the old days and take a look at how
        damn ugly they were.

        Didn't matter much, did it?

        You think Joe Karbo's "Lazy Man's Way To Riches" was a piece of artwork?

        Please!

        And as Mike said, with the creds that these guys have, they could have
        put this up and sold out.

        Seminar - March 11 - 14
        Learn How To Make 7 Figures
        Price - $6,995

        Payment Link

        I think it's safe to say that these guys know what they're doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    I wonder if the sales letter might not be promoted anywhere yet. Perhaps it's a draft where someone just did a copy & paste from Word. If that's the case, the letter could be cleaned up before attempts are made to drive traffic to the site.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Interestingly, I've NEVER seen a discussion on this board or any other
    copywriting board about the PRETTIEST sales letter you have ever
    seen.

    I wonder why?

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Interestingly, I've NEVER seen a discussion on this board or any other
      copywriting board about the PRETTIEST sales letter you have ever
      seen.

      I wonder why?

      -Ray Edwards
      Ray,

      First, there have been dozens of threads about "the best salesletter" which is close enough to disprove your insinuation.

      You are a good enough study of human nature to know exactly why we find rhis interesting: it is such a juxtaposition.

      If some shiny noob put up that letter, it would be unremarkable.

      I am still stunned at the blatant sycophantical behavior. Its really ok to say something done by a guru is ugly. You won't be struck dead after pressing the send key. Trust me. I've pointed out more naked emporers than I can remember.

      And this silly notion that it was deliberate... are you freakin kidding me? Quit looking for something that's not there. You sound like a bunch of freshman art students trying to interpret so-called "modern art".

      If its crap, just call it crap and move on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joanne Reid
        I was wondering if they were trying imitate or echo those old 4-page sales letters that were so popular in direct mail marketing with courier font and variations...

        Or are they trying to be "cutting-edge"?

        But it is just about impossible to read. And borrrrring.

        I have been practising sales letters and reading about them and looking at swipe files pretty much non-stop for a month (yeah I know -- not long in the bigger picture -- but it means a lot of stuff is fresh in my mind...) and while being unique or unusual can be a good thing, this is not good in any way shape or form.
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      • Profile picture of the author pincpassion
        I read only few lines and returned back here...
        Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author Jennie Heckel
        Dear All,

        I agree with Steven:

        he wrote:

        All kidding aside, and yes, I am old, but take a good look at this sales letter
        and then go open up a newspaper or magazine from the 1960s folks. This is
        the look they were going for, at least in my neck of the woods. I recognized
        this as soon as I saw it.

        Take a look at some really old ads from the old days and take a look at how
        damn ugly they were.

        I agree.

        These 2 dudes DO know EXACTLY what they are doing.

        This is to say "hey guys, gals, we're the old guys, we know what the good ole days were like. Come on down and we'll tell ya all how to... whatever it is they are selling this time.

        I agree this does look like the 2006 bootcamp sales copy.

        Interesting twist if I must say so myself.

        Easily readable...well no, but got your ATTENTION -- HECK YES!

        These two never cease to amaze me.

        Jennie Heckel
        Signature
        ******* WSO & JV ZOO COPYWRITER -- VLS & SALES LETTERS PROVEN TO CONVERT ******* Get Higher Profits From Launches That SELL! Proven Copywriter with 17 Years of Copywriting Experience. Contact Me Via Skype: seoexpertconsulting Copywriting Website: http://www.VideoScriptCopywriter.com

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      • Profile picture of the author dremy154
        Actually, it's HORRID. Different fonts, the alignment, etc...

        I understand that they don't really need the internet to keep making their millions, but firstly, why would you pass up on generating an income that previously wasn't there?

        Secondly, who, in their right mind (regardless of financial stature and reputation) would WILLINGLY put their name on something like that?

        Unless they are setting out to prove just that: they can make money regardless, just because of who they are. Possibly.....

        Just my 2 cents,
        Drew
        Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author Denise Million
        I hope someone finds out how well their sales letter does and lets us all know!
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  • Profile picture of the author karlhadwen
    Stick some CSS On it and it'll look decent, until then it burns my eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author cgallagher93
    Bruce,

    I have a better idea to everyone spending several hours a day talking about Jay and Dan's sales letter: Instead of worrying about what guru did what and why, get off this forum and start doing something productive. There's so many lazy people on this forum it's actually unreal. When you've made a ton of money yourself, then is the time for you to rest and pass judgement. Seriously, I'll never understand some folks...

    Connor
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by cgallagher93 View Post

      Bruce,

      I have a better idea to everyone spending several hours a day talking about Jay and Dan's sales letter: Instead of worrying about what guru did what and why, get off this forum and start doing something productive. There's so many lazy people on this forum it's actually unreal. When you've made a ton of money yourself, then is the time for you to rest and pass judgement. Seriously, I'll never understand some folks...

      Connor
      That's a great idea. Count my posts over the last 6 months... here and on my own board.
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      • Profile picture of the author cgallagher93
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Ummm,

                Sorry to interrupt all your fun, eh, hem, but...

                Could you please explain to an across the ponder what exactly this means?

                "then you're clearly just taking the p*ss or you wouldn't have said it in the first place."

                Clueless in Michigan

                MissTerraK
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                • Profile picture of the author cgallagher93
                  Haha, I have friends in America who don't understand the British language either.

                  I suppose it's British slang basically meaning that I believe Mark was making a sarcastic comment intended to mock me and make his peers laugh.

                  "Taking the p*ss" really means mocking someone. At least that's what I thought...

                  Hope this enlightens! :p

                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  Ummm,

                  Sorry to interrupt all your fun, eh, hem, but...

                  Could you please explain to an across the ponder what exactly this means?

                  "then you're clearly just taking the p*ss or you wouldn't have said it in the first place."

                  Clueless in Michigan

                  MissTerraK
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by cgallagher93 View Post

                    Haha, I have friends in America who don't understand the British language either.

                    I suppose it's British slang basically meaning that I believe Mark was making a sarcastic comment intended to mock me and make his peers laugh.

                    "Taking the p*ss" really means mocking someone. At least that's what I thought...

                    Hope this enlightens! :p
                    Thanks for the info! If it helps you any, I don't think "Taking the p*ss" is any thing to mock or laugh at!:p

                    Here in the states it would mean, "the major p*ss" of all times like after drinking 6 cups of coffee, or stealing someone else's p*ss sample for testing to your parole officer, LOL!

                    MissTerraK
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
                Mark,

                I just looked at that thread you listed and I don't see any posts by Connor (cgallagher93) in the thread. I think the two of you may be dealing with a case of mistaken forum identity.

                Take care,

                Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author cgallagher93
    LOL that's pretty funny!

    I better watch what I'm saying from now on eh?
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by cgallagher93 View Post

      LOL that's pretty funny!

      I better watch what I'm saying from now on eh?
      No, that's quite all right!

      I actually find it quite entertaining as well as educational!

      Carry on!:p

      MissTerraK
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  • Profile picture of the author dlucca
    "Neatness rejects involvement."

    Great sales letter. You would do well to study it, outline it, see how illustrations/examples are used, etc.

    best,
    Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author FitJerk
    looks like my toilet bowl after partying extra hard on new years eve. a random spew of mess.
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  • Profile picture of the author hedzupmarketing
    wow, I feel Like a Superstar writer after looking at that. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author GetMoreTraffic
    ...looks like 1996 all over again.
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    • Profile picture of the author warriorzX
      Read the letter, people!

      "So, you should NOT think of this as a 'sales letter', which suggests us trying to persuade you to buy something. That's honestly NOT our purpose. Think of it as a 'deciding letter', which puts YOU in control, not us. Its purpose is for YOU to decide whether or not YOU are right for this Makeover and it right for you. Consequently, uncharacteristically, you'll find many classic elements of sales letters missing here. "

      The critical part is:

      Actually, I'm not going to say as it would defeat the "peat bog filter" theory by Mark. Suffice to say that this is not a conventional event. If I had 7k spare, it would be going on a ticket.

      "It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all the heavenly glory." Bruce Lee in Enter The Dragon - 1974

      Did I win a ticket Jay? Dan? PM me!
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      • Profile picture of the author Curleyjohn
        Originally Posted by Pikachoo View Post

        Read the letter, people!

        "So, you should NOT think of this as a 'sales letter', which suggests us trying to persuade you to buy something. That's honestly NOT our purpose. Think of it as a 'deciding letter', which puts YOU in control, not us. Its purpose is for YOU to decide whether or not YOU are right for this Makeover and it right for you. Consequently, uncharacteristically, you'll find many classic elements of sales letters missing here. "
        !
        Damn, foiled again. I knew someone would beat me to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    It's either intentional or it's not.

    The funny thing is I was expecting something completely different when I got to the site. There are definitely sites made to "look ugly" by design, and this didn't have that feel - it did seem to be more done by carelessness.

    The ones I've seen that are ugly on purpose seem to do very well. And before getting into the "but is it excusable for them to do it" talk I'd like to make two observations.

    One, if I'm reading it right (but what do I know?) the formatting is poor in such a way as to be counter-productive as a sales letter. Or as Bruce says "crap". I've seen "ugly" sales letters from Dan Kennedy and they're great to read. But this one...well, I'm not their target audience but I have a hard time believing their target audience won't be forgiving.

    Two, guesses as to whether it's on purpose or not is a separate issue than whether or not they'll fill the seats, and whether or not that particular letter will be a part of it doing so however big or small a role it plays in the overall campaign.

    I think we all agree they'll fill the seats. But because of that weird (and enviable) position of them being able to do so without question even with a sales letter like this it's interesting to me that this letter in particular just actually might (again, this is opinion, I'm not their target audience) break the rule of "they'll continue to read as long as it's interesting".

    It's just hard to read. At the same time, I love Dan and Bill's copy material so I might be jaded and not care to read it because I've seen their copy before so to speak.

    Anyway I'm not quite sure if I added anything to this. But...well...I agree with everyone? :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author mrfixituk
    I agree, not much effort put into the formatting, but these guys can trade on their reputation
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    Now that sales letter is admittedly bad....and maybe I wasn't their ideal choice as a copywriter...but for a fiver what do they expect? LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author DougHughes
    One of the subheads in the letter claims...

    "A Different Paradigm Than You're Probably Used To"

    That's for sure.
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    I write copy. Learn More.>>

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  • A crack at buzz marketing perhaps?

    It certainly is creating a lot of buzz...
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  • Profile picture of the author RefundHost
    If you wrote that way with a pen
    (writing from edge to edge-no margins )
    any graphologist would think you had a
    sociopathic personality disorder. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author yachi
    Have they left any font? ? lol...funny
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  • Profile picture of the author Bret Ferguson
    I check this thread to see if he was talking about mine!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bret Ferguson
    2 cents here - Haven't read all the responding posts so maybe someones said this already, but it seems like a gimmick/test. (I believe the pitch is real) Going against the flow on all what is considered "the way it should be done". For me, the content got long and boring. Maybe it's just my ADD. Didn't read much past the first 2 paragraphs.....

    Not to mention maybe someone wants to see all the fuss and analyzing of it. Which I find kind of funny. Oh.....ooh.....ahhhh......
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnB23
      My analysis...they arent selling the letter, they're selling their name.

      -If someone that you admire and respect (who just made you $50,000 from their last seminar) sent you that letter, you'd still read it. Their names and reputation trumps everything else. If Warren Buffett sent you a letter written on a napkin asking you to come to Omaha and he'll share his secrets with you, you'd go.

      -The $7 grand and no risk reversal....I think they are targeting the upper 10% of their list that doesn't care about that.

      These guys have done so many seminars and have sold so many things, this is just a drop in the bucket.

      Build up a reputation as high as Jay and Dan and you can write the ugliest sales letter ever, and you'll still get people to show up.
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