Ryan Deiss says long form sales letters are dead... What do you think?

127 replies
Hey,

I just checked out Ryan Deiss's sales video for Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

...He blatantly says that long copy's dead -
and that video is the only way to go these days.

He also throws out some figures saying once he
ditched long form sales letters, his conversions
went from 2.1% to 6.9%, which he discovered
from sending equal amounts of traffic to a
split test of video vs. long copy.

What do you think? What's your take on this?

David
#dead #deiss #form #letters #long #ryan #sales
  • Profile picture of the author Desmond Ong
    Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post

    Hey,

    I just checked out Ryan Deiss's sales video for Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

    ...He blatantly says that long copy's dead -
    and that video is the only way to go these days.

    He also throws out some figures saying once he
    ditched long form sales letters, his conversions
    went from 2.1% to 6.9%, which he discovered
    from sending equal amounts of traffic to a
    split test of video vs. long copy.

    What do you think? What's your take on this?

    David
    It depends David. Especially on how you see your websites but one think for sure, long form sales letter is not dead.

    I started using video sales letter recently on some of my weird niche sites and some of them converted really well for me -- some not. So it's important to split test.

    D
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    But he is just READING the long sales letter. So I guess they
    are dead because they need to be spoken?

    So is the FORMAT dead or the content?

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author dtendrich
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      But he is just READING the long sales letter. So I guess they
      are dead because they need to be spoken?

      So is the FORMAT dead or the content?

      -Ray Edwards
      Hey...

      Nicely put... I'm not sure. But I bet after video is out for a while and everyone switches to that - it'll be refreshing to see a long copy sales page

      I gotta say though - I personally love the long copy. When it's done right.

      David
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      • Profile picture of the author Aussie_Al
        Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post

        I gotta say though - I personally love the long copy. When it's done right.

        David
        Haha me too - especially if its something I have a serious interest in - I will read that sucker all day long!
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  • Profile picture of the author dtendrich
    Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

    It depends David. Especially on how you see your websites but one think for sure, long form sales letter is not dead.

    I started using video sales letter recently on some of my weird niche sites and some of them converted really well for me -- some not. So it's important to split test.

    D
    Hey,

    I agree. I think there's a lot of factors that go into it. And I think he's leaving out a lot when he cites his 2.1% to 6.9% jump. Those figures sound nice - but I'm sure there's a story behind that that involves a lot more than just switching to video.

    One thing's for sure though... When done right video works great.

    Same thing for long copy though.

    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    I think he's selling a video sales letter product.
    Lol... Yeah.

    David
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  • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
    I honestly don't think anybody ever read those anyway, it was mostly fodder for SEO and the engines. People might actually watch a short video, instead of read the ridiculous 1-page novel, and that can easily equate to more sales if the product is good, the visitor feels a need/want, and the price is right.
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    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      I honestly don't think anybody ever read those anyway, it was mostly fodder for SEO and the engines. People might actually watch a short video, instead of read the ridiculous 1-page novel, and that can easily equate to more sales if the product is good, the visitor feels a need/want, and the price is right.
      Hahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!

      Wow... what you don't know about marketing could fill an entire SEO-fueled long sales letter that nobody ever reads anyway.


      hahahahahahahaha!!!!

      This place is amazing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Perhaps long, self-indulgent sales letters are no longer effective.

    Realistically, if marketers were paying for printing and postage,
    they'd be a lot more restrained and concise. Since bandwidth is
    so cheap, long sales letter often get bloated - and readers get
    bored.

    I'm talking about the difference between 10 and 20 pages, not
    2 and 8, which are still long-form ads by direct mail standards.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post

    What do you think? What's your take on this?
    I think he's trying to sell a video only product.

    I also think he's made a critical Salesmanship 101 mistake on his site: When the prospect is ready to order, you stop talking and you take their order. Except he doesn't have an order button already up there for people to order.

    Nope.

    He's expecting people to sit there and listen to him for the entire pitch before they can order.

    It's like a single guy in a bar telling a girl who already said she wants to go home with them... that she needs to wait until they finish their presentation on "97 reasons why she should pick them over all of the other guys at the bar that night".

    Most girls aren't going to stick around and wait for the presentation to be completed.

    My 3 cents,

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam Mlambo
    I've seen this topic discussed quite a few times. And my thinking has always been that the words in video is just copy. I don't think long sales letters are dead just because video is more usable.

    Maybe in some markets, a video is more suitable for selling... But I wouldn't discount a sales letter from doing the job either.

    - Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author dtendrich
    Hey,

    I have a question... I'm trying to respond to what a bunch of people said, but I don't know how to quote a bunch of people in one post without clicking "quote", copy/pasting, then click back, then repeating until I have a post with everyone's quotes...

    Is there an easier way to do this? I kinda feel like I'm kicking a wall and I don't even know it.

    I guess for now I'll use the "@" symbol. It's way easier than clicking "quote" 20 times...

    @kpmedia - If no one ever read those things than I guess people just scrolled through every long form sales page I ever wrote and clicked "Add to Cart" without reading a single thing in between.

    ...I feel kinda dumb thinking that if the copy was super targeted and focused on the reader they'd take interest and read. Maybe I'll just start putting "Add to Cart" buttons with no text.

    Thanks for the suggestion, man.

    @Loren - You make good points. Then again - I dunno if self-indulgent letters ever sold anything (except an ego boost)

    @Mike - The thing is it's a great sales pitch - even though you're totally right. It's obviously skewed to help make the sale.

    I wonder though if the Add to Cart was there the whole time if that would kill more sales than not having it because if that's the first thing people see... Then it's a little pre-emptive to ask for a sale when they don't know what they're buying...

    ...And instead of watching the video they'll just click the button, see the price, then make a decision solely based off of that instead of off of the content of the video.

    I guess only testing will tell
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post


      @Loren - You make good points. Then again - I dunno if self-indulgent letters ever sold anything (except an ego boost)
      I say that because I've personally written overlong, self-indulgent
      sales letters that converted well. People can be tolerant if they
      like and understand the offer - so if your letters punch-through with
      a clear offer, whether or not they are long-winded, they can convert
      well. There's no hard and fast rule to it. Some people are sub
      literate and resistant to reading, but for a complex and high-priced
      product many people will read A LOT before they decide you're telling
      them too much and they lose interest because your copy is
      longer than they prefer.

      Now, I'm fussier, more skilled and more critical of my own writing.
      Even for high priced, complex offers.

      "If I Had More Time I Would Write a Shorter Letter"
      Mark Twain
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  • Profile picture of the author jonlefave
    Say that to John Carlton.

    In all seriousness...yeah, it's marketing hype for Deiss. Got your attention, didn't it?

    This is my opinion (grain of salt material here):

    Are you good with making video? If so, chances are your message can be amplified by your video skills, AND you might keep the attention of the ADHD type.

    That doesn't mean you should ditch copy all together. What about those who don't have the ability to access your video? (Mobile devices, anyone?) You'd lose potential prospects.

    Or what happens if your video skills... well... suck big time? If you're trying to sell a $197+ product... you don't want their first impression of you to scream AMATEUR! With a properly constructed sales letter, your prospect imagines things much more powerful than what video can do for you.

    Long form sales letters have it's place. You need to decide in where it should be used, folks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kezz
    I think everyone just needs to remember the reason sales letters worked in the first place.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in ye olde days prior to the internet, direct marketers realized that if they sent a letter addressed personally to someone they tapped into people's excitement at receiving mail.

    Before email, a long letter in the post usually meant hearing from a friend or loved one who lived at a distance.

    Taking advantage of this caught people with their guards down, worked around the "ad blindness" of the day, and then intrigued them enough to read on before they could put their guard back up again.

    When the internet showed up, direct marketers realized they could take the exact same approach and just put it online - hence the term sales "letter" and the format we still use today.

    Obviously it's not a real letter anymore, but the underlying principle should still be the same, right?

    Make people comfortable, and scoot around whatever today's "ad blindness" is.

    Sure, video might do this automatically to a certain degree because it's a little new and that does remove some "ad blindness".

    But, a sales letter can still achieve the same thing, if it sticks to the principles that made them work in the first place.

    If a letter is full of things that make people uncomfortable, screams "Gimme your money!" and instantly puts people's "I'm being sold to" barriers up, then it forgets what it is actually trying to do.

    It's not the format that does or doesn't sell. It's the content and the underlying principles.

    Put the right principles behind any format, and you should be able to create results.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Sanchez
      Armand Morin is saying the same thing that sales letters are dead but I supect that it's just the print copy. Love to know what his perspective is on this.

      Frankly copywriting is just following proper sales and persuasion and can be transferred to almost any medium imo and frankly should be. Maybe in video format it would need top be shorter though. I think people are conditioned for a shorter attention span with video.

      Oh and I didn't read anything on this self indulgent long thread. I psychically knew by the headline what this whole thing is about and didn't read anyone's responses. I just figured I would type a bunch of stuff and click reply. No one think and reads anything anymore. Just thought I would put that out there.

      "Hahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!" - just to quote some random guy whose post I didn't read and knows nothing about copywriting and still makes a terrific living at it somehow.


      Something is only long when it's sucks and is boring and blatantly concerned only about taking someone's money.

      ps - real sales letters are constructed the way they are because they hit the major learning styles of people by their structure. Some like reading everything, getting all of the details, while others just skim the headlines. Real Copy writing is the epitome of persuasion EVERYTHING in the copy is calculated, tested and proven by the almighty authority: sales
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    So boring-ass long-form salesletters are dead and are being replaced by...long boring-ass videos. I couldn't watch to the end - too painful. He goes on...and on...and on doesn't he? (Kern does a much better pitch - full frontal) Thing is...Deiss makes his point early in the video...you might think "cool, I want it" - but as Mike has already pointed out - where's the order button?

    Love the name of it though -

    "The 12-Step Template" *

    Step 1. We admitted we were powerless over copywriting and that our lives had become unmanageable

    Step 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than long-form sales letters could restore us to sanity

    Step 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Ryan Deiss - as we understood him

    Step 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of our filthy long-form salesletter copy

    Step 5. Admitted to Ryan Deiss, to ourselves, and to another human bean the exact nature of our copy wrongs

    Step 6. Were entirely ready to have Ryan Deiss remove all these defects of copy

    Step 7. Humbly asked Ryan Deiss to remove our shortcomings

    Step 8. Made a list of all persons we had slagged off on forums and became willing to make amends to them all

    Step 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible - except when they were real assholes

    Step 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong didn't admit it to anyone

    Step 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our copywriting - praying that we could continue to write long-form salesletters even though some cats say the party's over

    Step 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to all long-form salesletter copywriters and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

    * With apologies to Copywriters Anonymous and Ryan Deiss.
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    • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
      Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

      Wow... what you don't know about marketing could fill an entire SEO-fueled long sales letter that nobody ever reads anyway.
      Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post

      If no one ever read those things than I guess people just scrolled through every long form sales page I ever wrote and clicked "Add to Cart" without reading a single thing in between....I feel kinda dumb thinking that if the copy was super targeted and focused on the reader they'd take interest and read. Maybe I'll just start putting "Add to Cart" buttons with no text.Thanks for the suggestion, man.
      Oh good grief. Drop the attitudes. :rolleyes:

      What you're overlooking is this:
      1. You've either written such amazing copy that the person quit reading and went right for the cart.
      2. Your clients are idiots and may very well buy something that has two sentences and a big "buy now" button.
      3. Your particular product was recommended to them before they even got to the site.
      4. You've lost out on customers because you have no skills at copywriting. Yeah, maybe you got some sales, but maybe you would have gotten more without all the long-winded blowhard BS I so often see in those mile-long snooze fests.
      ... or any combination thereof.

      Those 4 items are far more likely that somebody spending 30+ minutes reading 1 page of marketing BS. That just doesn't happen. Not in printed junk mail, and surely not online.

      There's no reason to write as poorly as many of those sites do, aside from wanting to cover all your bases with keywords and key phrases. Either that, or having the writing abilities of a junior high student. A professional copywriter (i.e., somebody writing for print marketing) would find it hard to get a job with that level of copywriting abilities. Most of those things are terrible.

      Is video better than print? Hmmm, I wonder. Think about informercials vs junk mail. None of this is new.
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      • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
        Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

        Oh good grief. Drop the attitudes. :rolleyes:
        My point (which you totally missed) was if you think longcopy is all about... or even partially about SEO then you know nothing about this business. That's not attitude. It's fact

        There is no place in a longcopy sales letter for on page SEO. The longcopy is exclusively about persuasion and salesmanship. But you don't seem to have picked up on that at all. Hence... you know nothing about this.
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        • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
          Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

          The longcopy is exclusively about persuasion and salesmanship. .
          Then you need to explain why those letters are a mile long and repeat the keywords and key phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and for about 25 scrolls of the page.

          It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.
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          • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
            Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

            It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.
            Perhaps you could enlighten us old-timers about
            the breadth of your marketing experience...

            ...you make such bold, sweeping statements.

            Surely you have the professional experience to
            back up your opinions, yes?

            Best,

            Brian
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          • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
            First of all... I don't NEED to explain anything to you. I'm a good guy and someone who likes to teach which is why I CHOOSE to explain it to you.

            That said... a good sales letter is as long as it needs to be and not a word longer. A bad sales letter is too long if it's more than a sentence.

            As for keyword stuffing you will never (let me repeat that) NEVER see keywords stuffed into a sales letter written by a direct response professional. If you do see keyword stuffing then you're looking at something written by a hack article writer/seo crap purveyor.

            Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

            Then you need to explain why those letters are a mile long and repeat the keywords and key phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and for about 25 scrolls of the page.

            It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.
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          • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
            Banned
            Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

            Then you need to explain why those letters are a mile long and repeat the keywords and key phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and for about 25 scrolls of the page.

            It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.
            It's both. One is called "keyword stuffing" which was all the rage years ago but will just get you penalised in the SERPS these days. And it's also bad writing. A page is as long as it needs to be - which is as long as it holds the reader's attention. Some writers are very good at it. Most of us aren't.

            But there's another technique for long salesletters which I think is quite cool. Done right. It's called "the cliffhanger technique".

            You have a bunch of copy - your "25 scrolls" if you like. But you break it into several pages. At the bottom of the page you finish on a "cliffhanger" - like they do in television and in movies. The reader must click on the link to see what happens next. Or not. Here's a pretty good example - Now You Can Have The Same Step-By-Step System I Use Each Day To Succeed in Affiliate Marketing

            just send money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Reeveso
      I would point out a few things about this - some have already been pointed out so forgive me

      #1 - Long form sales letters are NOT dead. What's dead...is copywriter's who don't have the skills to write long form sales letters which are actually GOOD.

      In other words - lazy copywriters are dead.

      #2 - In some markets, video does A LOT better than text. In other markets, text does A LOT better than video. Same script, same person talking. All other variables the same.

      This could be simply because the person isn't confident, has a negative appearance (i.e. doesn't fit the target market), etc. etc.

      #3 - Deiss has been riding trends like crazy lately. He sees a trend, exploits it to make it look like if you don't switch NOW it's the end of the world, then moves on. Keep in mind, I'm still a fan of Deiss and love his products - but this is what he's been doing lately.

      #4 - Some of the most successful companies in the direct response world are still using 24,32+ page magalogs, getting HUGE responses...and making hundreds of millions of dollars.


      #5 - Someone pointed out that the momentum has shifted from text --> video and that it might go back. Personally, I think it WILL go back. It's the same as online marketing. At first it was dirt cheap and all the rage. Now...you can get traffic a lot CHEAPER by going offline in many cases.

      That's my say in it at least For my upcoming website, I'm personally going to be testing text vs. me on video vs. powerpoint video and see what converts the best for ME.

      Because after all, that's all that matters. What converts the best for YOU and your specific product.
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      He puts most of his time and energy into what he's found to be the most profitable secret he's ever discovered.

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  • Profile picture of the author RyanParenti
    Video grabs attention. That's what you need in copy.


    Be honest. Who really reads the entire copy?

    I usually just skim through to the bottom of the page and see the list of what you get to make a choice.

    Another bonus from Video is that they don't know it's a pitch until they are warmed up and sold.

    In essence, the video is just a better way to grab attention. But it's still the same thing because they are just reading the sales letter... every time.
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  • As has been pointed out, video is just "salesmanship in video" (get it? A little play on the old "salesmanship in print"...nevermind...)

    Anyway I do believe long-form copy as we have normally positioned it is dying and is mostly dead, but video is only one of the alternate ways of presenting your sales message.

    Here's the thing:

    People aren't reading long sales letters unless they are extremely interested in the product. Even people who are ready to buy often do not read the entire sales letter. We need to keep this in mind as we create a sales process. We have to provide ways for our prospects to view all the information they want without forcing them to wade through information they don't want.

    How do we do that?

    By creating online sales materials that, instead of being in one long sales letter, is broken up into clickable or hoverable "more info" buttons; having product details come up in a lightbox when requested; even breaking video descriptions into separate chunks.

    If we want to be competent copywriters today we need to be able to do more than simply "write." We need to be competent to advise clients about the technical aspects of a working sales process and show them how those "chunks of information" can be presented so the prospect can access them as he chooses.

    My 2 cents.
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    • Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

      Video needs to be short, entertaining and easy to follow.

      Think that's easy? Go do it and let us know how you did.

      You'll be back talking about "how do I write a kick-ass sales
      letter?" in no time....
      The bar for entry into web business keeps getting higher. The faster people start doing business and making money NOW, the better able they will be to adapt.

      I understand why he says at the beginning of the video something to the effect of "crappy videos sell really well" because he had to counter the argument that most people can't make a video at all--let alone a decent one.

      I don't mean to pick on Ryan, I suspect his product will do well and he will make a good deal of money. But the reality is that most people can't make a decent video of any kind even with help.
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    • Profile picture of the author Freddie Crossberg
      Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

      As mentioned he HAS to say
      "long sales letters are dead!" in order to con, er I mean
      persuade people into buying his product.
      Is this not a cliche comming from a copywriter?

      Just wondering if you consider all the sales you make for your clients as a con?

      Regards,

      Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    I've tried to get clients to make videos to support the
    copy and marketing work I do for them and the results
    have been atrocious. Worse than crappy.

    Video marketing is a real skill that takes time to learn.
    You don't need a lot of expensive equipment though,
    so it's accessible to those who are determined.

    Personally I rarely watch video sales pitches. They
    bore me. The IM ones anyway. I like TV informercials
    though - some of them are amazing works of
    calculated persuasion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Reeveso
      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      I've tried to get clients to make videos to support the
      copy and marketing work I do for them and the results
      have been atrocious. Worse than crappy.

      Video marketing is a real skill that takes time to learn.
      You don't need a lot of expensive equipment though,
      so it's accessible to those who are determined.

      Personally I rarely watch video sales pitches. They
      bore me. The IM ones anyway. I like TV informercials
      though - some of them are amazing works of
      calculated persuasion.
      Loren you make a great point here - the success of a video salesletter is going to be the EXACT same type of success you'd see with different copywriters.

      In other words...

      Great salesletters = great results
      Bad salesletters = bad results

      Great videos = great results (possibly great than great salesletters)
      Bad videos = bad results

      Here's an idea - how about MIXING videos with salesletters? I'm trying this out on a product right now. It gets the best of both worlds
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      Jeremy Reeves is a 6-figure sales copywriter who has made his clients MILLIONS of dollars in EXTRA profit with advanced marketing strategies and ninja-like conversion tricks.

      He puts most of his time and energy into what he's found to be the most profitable secret he's ever discovered.

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      • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
        I've been preaching this for 3 years now. All my testing shows short video (or even videos) inside a real sales letter outsell video alone... or letters alone.

        The only exception to the rule is the current fad with the powerpoint reading of a sales letter. And this is just a fad.
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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

          I've been preaching this for 3 years now. All my testing shows short video (or even videos) inside a real sales letter outsell video alone... or letters alone.

          The only exception to the rule is the current fad with the powerpoint reading of a sales letter. And this is just a fad.
          That's EXACTLY what I've found too... Video + Sales Letter is where it's at.
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

            That's EXACTLY what I've found too... Video + Sales Letter is where it's at.
            BTW, Video/SL Formula... do you find a talking head video works best or a screen capture video and presentation?
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        • Profile picture of the author gareth
          Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

          I've been preaching this for 3 years now. All my testing shows short video (or even videos) inside a real sales letter outsell video alone... or letters alone.

          The only exception to the rule is the current fad with the powerpoint reading of a sales letter. And this is just a fad.
          Well I know when I find a good long form sales letter about something I really want I read the whole thing over and over whilst drooling.

          I find myself wishing the letter was longer while my anticipation & desire to get the product builds.

          Video I often don't even watch because of technical difficulties EG: wrong version of player, bandwidth issues etc. But when there is a decent video I will watch the whole thing right through.

          Many of the top guys now base their launches upon video and have done so for at least a couple of years now.

          So the stats don't lie - a split test should include all 3

          Pure video

          Pure sales letter

          Combination

          You can test on your front end or through emails.

          Actually I can see great value in a course like this for people using video distribution to drive traffic & affiliate sales etc & would buy the course for that alone - not even on site sales - if the course is actually any good.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    The only exception to the rule is the current fad with the powerpoint reading of a sales letter. And this is just a fad.
    Vin,

    I don't agree or disagree, I don't know. Why do you think it's a fad?

    I've been through the course. I don't know what's B.S. and what isn't, but Ryan claims that the powerpoint beat "pretty" videos in testing.

    Maybe he's just sayin' what people want to hear, the easiest videos to make converted the best.

    I'd be curious to know why you think it's a fad though.

    You think face front to the camera, or videos with high production value is what we'll be seeing more of in the future?

    A lot of great points in this thread.

    @kpmedia: Vin's right. Not opinion, fact.

    -Scott
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    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh View Post

      Vin,

      I don't agree or disagree, I don't know. Why do you think it's a fad?

      I've been through the course. I don't know what's B.S. and what isn't, but Ryan claims that the powerpoint beat "pretty" videos in testing.
      As I said... powerpoint videos are hot now. I have no doubt they beat "pretty" videos. But I believe it's a fad because everything that veers from the norm has always proven eventually to be a fad.

      Maybe he's just sayin' what people want to hear, the easiest videos to make converted the best.
      I'd be curious to know why you think it's a fad though.

      You think face front to the camera, or videos with high production value is what we'll be seeing more of in the future?
      At least not in the near future. But let's face it... eventually the web will mix with tv and it will all be one. At that point the more sophisticated videos will most probably be what everyone expects.

      That said... my point about the ppt videos being a fad really isn't in comparison to other videos but in comparison to good old fashioned longcopy in conjunction with some brief videos.

      All my clients who order ppt videos from me always have a ready to go old fashioned letter in the pipeline ready for the day the numbers slip. In fact the idea that this was a fad actually came to me from one of my clients. A smart one who makes a ton of money.

      In fact this client is one of the earliest adapters of the concept and like I said... he's just waiting for it to burn out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.
    Dude.

    You have no clue who the hell you're talking to.

    Come back here when you have more 6 figure launches under your belt than you can count on both hands.

    Calling Vin a "sucky writer" is like calling Steve Jobs bad at business... You can have your opinion but it's wrong. Numbers don't lie.

    -Scott
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  • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
    I"m referring to long letters "in general" -- not anybody's particular sites.

    NOTE: Some of you ego-driven folks need to keep those things in check. Judging from the signatures in this post, none of you are selling things I would have looked at anyway, so I'm probably not talking about you specifically.

    While a few of you may be good at this, I would wager that the majority of them ARE NOT. There's clearly a difference between what a letter-style site/page is supposed to be, and what people are out there actually doing.

    Most of what I have seen in the past year or two is just repetitive incoherent rambling from somebody hoping to get rich quick. (And very often, the so-called "products" were ... I don't know ... like a collage of bad copy/pastes from the Internet. It was solid crap, even worse than the rambling come-on page.)

    Given the choice between mile-long obnoxious text, and a short video, most people would pick the video. Just look at how popular some of the junk on Youtube is.
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    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      Most of what I have seen in the past year or two is just repetitive incoherent rambling from somebody hoping to get rich quick. (And very often, the so-called "products" were ... I don't know ... like a collage of bad copy/pastes from the Internet. It was solid crap, even worse than the rambling come-on page.)

      Given the choice between mile-long obnoxious text, and a short video, most people would pick the video. Just look at how popular some of the junk on Youtube is.
      First... crap writing whether in print or on video is crap writing. Those types of things you're talking about aren't copywriting. They're just hacks being hacks. They're often English as a third language bottom feeders who know nothing about copy.

      And if you know nothing about copy... you're not a copywriter. I mean, it's obvious by some of the things you've written in this thread that you don't know anything about copy. You wouldn't call yourself a copywriter, right?

      And seriously try to think before you say some of these things you say. Dude... youtube may have a bunch of views but youtube is notoriously bad at selling anything. There are a few instances where a really cool viral video was capitalized on for selling purposes... but the vast majority of the million view + videos couldn't sell free food to a starving person.

      You may not know copy but even you have to know this simple common sense fact... no?
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      I"m referring to long letters "in general" -- not anybody's particular sites.

      NOTE: Some of you ego-driven folks need to keep those things in check. Judging from the signatures in this post, none of you are selling things I would have looked at anyway, so I'm probably not talking about you specifically.

      While a few of you may be good at this, I would wager that the majority of them ARE NOT. There's clearly a difference between what a letter-style site/page is supposed to be, and what people are out there actually doing.

      Most of what I have seen in the past year or two is just repetitive incoherent rambling from somebody hoping to get rich quick. (And very often, the so-called "products" were ... I don't know ... like a collage of bad copy/pastes from the Internet. It was solid crap, even worse than the rambling come-on page.)

      Given the choice between mile-long obnoxious text, and a short video, most people would pick the video. Just look at how popular some of the junk on Youtube is.
      I am just learning to write copy, but can you tell me who you are and what kind of credentials you have? Do you write copy and have six figure launches? If so why don't you enlighten us with the web address to the copy you have written? You just joined the WF I see and have no idea who you are slamming. Why should we just trust what you say?
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      • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        I am just learning to write copy, but can you tell me who you are and what kind of credentials you have? Do you write copy and have six figure launches? If so why don't you enlighten us with the web address to the copy you have written? You just joined the WF I see and have no idea who you are slamming. Why should we just trust what you say?
        He has non. Anyone that mentions a true salesletter and on-page seo in one setting is obviously clueless and should be ignored. I have yet, to read a good salesletter...that does keyword stuffing. This type of practice, if ever happened, would kill the copy right away.

        Some people, just come in here and try to spin their wheels and make themseleves look foolish. I tend to agree with Vin, that using video and a good salesletter does pull way better than just using video alone.

        Ryan, is promoting a vid product, so of course he's going to put, a huge bias on other technologies and make his product/technology look more superior. This is, nothing new...
        this has been done with all products, make one look better than other and mention that one is the way, one is obsolete.

        Testing, is the only real way to determine... what works and what is a waste of time.

        Cheers,
        Magic!
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          I have an opinion.

          It has served me well to look to the guys spending their money on testing. Until you dip into your own pocketbook or wallet, or get to use some "deep pockets" money for testing, it is really just a discussion, not a very productive one at that.

          So, who here is spending his own money and testing? Well, Harlan Kilstein for one. He currently has 3 landing pages for his hypnoticsecret site.

          One has video that begins upon landing. One has video which requires a "push button" to start, one sans video.

          ALL three are long copy. Now, I'm not privvy to any of his testing, so, maybe, he is testing some short copy/buy now type of stuff, but I doubt it.

          See, when you are into your own wallet, then you test and use what works. There is NO theory involved, only results.

          And despite what the guru of the day says, only TESTING and spending money to get real world results is worthy of debate. Why argue with people who have;

          a) never spent any of their own money to test
          b) have never written against a control of long copy
          c) are just wanting to hear themselves speak?

          So, no matter what this guru says or that guru refutes, the answer is, what works WORKS...until something beats it, it will be the "control" for whatever is being sold.

          But, that is just one a holes opinion.

          gjabiz
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          • Profile picture of the author Harlan
            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post


            So, who here is spending his own money and testing? Well, Harlan Kilstein for one. He currently has 3 landing pages for his hypnoticsecret site.

            One has video that begins upon landing. One has video which requires a "push button" to start, one sans video.

            ALL three are long copy. Now, I'm not privvy to any of his testing, so, maybe, he is testing some short copy/buy now type of stuff, but I doubt it.

            gjabiz
            Just 3? Your missing a bunch.

            I'm testing EVERYTHING more than I ever have and I've been stunned by the results.

            Right now, I'm focused most on testing traffic with sources most people have never heard of.

            And I seem to be living in my analytics account.

            The conversion rate off my emails is the highest I've ever seen.

            So it's changed by attitude towards just get the opt in.

            New videos should be up in around a week.

            I did not write the original copy for the site - but I am tweaking it and I'm going to re-write it and make it much shorter.

            Peace.
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            Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
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            • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post




              The conversion rate off my emails is the highest I've ever seen.

              So it's changed by attitude towards just get the opt in.



              Peace.
              Harlan,

              Could you shed just a little light on this? Is your NOW attitude, get the email opt in, showing a higher conversion rate than any of the landing pages? And is there a "magic" number of emails which shows a tipping point to buying? And, of course, does any ONE of the landing pages produce a significantly higher opt in rate (video, non video, etc.)

              Do your stats suggest people want to get to "know" you (or the "product") a tad bit more before they make a purchase? Or am I totally missing something?

              gjabiz
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              • Profile picture of the author Harlan
                Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

                Harlan,

                Could you shed just a little light on this? Is your NOW attitude, get the email opt in, showing a higher conversion rate than any of the landing pages? And is there a "magic" number of emails which shows a tipping point to buying? And, of course, does any ONE of the landing pages produce a significantly higher opt in rate (video, non video, etc.)

                Do your stats suggest people want to get to "know" you (or the "product") a tad bit more before they make a purchase? Or am I totally missing something?

                gjabiz
                What I'm seeing PPC is lead gen these days. I'm about to do some funky magic with segmenting but I'm getting some amazing data on the market and tailor making my campaigns.

                Data is showing me if I can get them to click on the link in my email - the number that buys is so staggering, you'd accuse me of lying.

                I just did a seminar and let people see inside my analytics account. Wild.

                I see you're in WPB, You up for a coffee midway?
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                Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post

    Hey,

    I just checked out Ryan Deiss's sales video for Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

    ...He blatantly says that long copy's dead -
    and that video is the only way to go these days.

    He also throws out some figures saying once he
    ditched long form sales letters, his conversions
    went from 2.1% to 6.9%, which he discovered
    from sending equal amounts of traffic to a
    split test of video vs. long copy.

    What do you think? What's your take on this?

    David
    I think that the fact that Deiss is making these claims while promoting a product centered on video sales letters says any claims should be taken with a big enough pinch of salt to mummify an ox.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Ryan Deiss says long form sales letters are dead...
    Well, I guess that's it then. The copywriting party is over. It was fun while it lasted...

    (...taking down my copywriting tent and folding it up...)

    WAIT A MINUTE! Aren't video sales letters just written sales letters that are read aloud!

    Yes, exactly.

    Sales letters are NOT dead...

    In fact, long videos have one, huge, fatal flaw -- you can't quickly and easily scan through them.

    With a conventional sales letter, the prospect typically scans through it. When something catches their attention... they read. Then they scan again... this time, perhaps, reading a bit more.

    You can't do that with a video.

    Videos can be a great supplement to a conventional sales letter... but they're not a replacement for them.

    (...setting my copywriting tent back up again...)

    Johnny
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanquish
      Most people watch tons of TV especially in North America where a huge part of the IM market is so watching video becomes much easier and you can process info much faster because it hits you visually, emotionally and auditorally(is that a word?) therefore making your response to it much more powerful.

      Also watching a video requires less effort because it is passive where as reading a sales letter is active and most people enjoy being passive more.
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      Nothing to sell, only value to give and new knowledge to learn.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Vanquish View Post

        Most people watch tons of TV especially in North America where a huge part of the IM market is so watching video becomes much easier and you can process info much faster because it hits you visually, emotionally and auditorally(is that a word?) therefore making your response to it much more powerful.

        Also watching a video requires less effort because it is passive where as reading a sales letter is active and most people enjoy being passive more.
        Or bore you to death and you click off without even being tempted to click a link or hit a Buy Button that's under your nose.

        Go read some long-form Gary Halbert and tell me that aint entertaining. Now that's a copywriter. And that's the power of well-chosen words.
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  • Profile picture of the author prettyboy
    I know one thing for sure: Whether it's truly dead or not.....Ryan is loving this thread. A lot of free traffic to his site from a discussion going on between many long form sales letter writers. He's telling the world that what we do is dead and we're sending him customers. He did make a huge mistake by not having a buy button on the page and hoping that people would sit and listen to him talk until his buy button magically appears.

    Personally I do both, text and video.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanquish
      Originally Posted by prettyboy View Post

      I know one thing for sure: Whether it's truly dead or not.....Ryan is loving this thread. A lot of free traffic to his site from a discussion going on between many long form sales letter writers. He's telling the world that what we do is dead and we're sending him customers. He did make a huge mistake by not having a buy button on the page and hoping that people would sit and listen to him talk until his buy button magically appears.

      Personally I do both, text and video.
      Yes one thing I noticed is that Ryan took an extreme approach by saying long hand sales letters are dead. This extreme stance created controversy which in turn created this thread which will drive free traffic to Ryan's site. This is great marketing! I'm taking notes and most people should as well.

      I think not having the buy button until the end is an interesting idea because being on his newsletter his titles are framed as content videos and when you dont see the buy now button you keep listening for juicy content you can use but then the buy now button hits you at the end and you managed to listen through the whle sales letter so you may be tempted to buy.

      Would be interesting if Ryan came in and told us more about his secret ways...
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by prettyboy View Post

      I know one thing for sure: Whether it's truly dead or not.....Ryan is loving this thread. A lot of free traffic to his site from a discussion going on between many long form sales letter writers. He's telling the world that what we do is dead and we're sending him customers. He did make a huge mistake by not having a buy button on the page and hoping that people would sit and listen to him talk until his buy button magically appears.

      Personally I do both, text and video.
      A "lot" of free traffic? Hardly. There's only ever 15 people and a lame dog reading this sub-forum at any one time.
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  • Profile picture of the author andrewkar
    Guys, Mr. Ryan is doing show.

    He said that LONG COPY IS DEAD, Wow, I 'am scared to death!
    This is bait...

    It is something "new", something different and most importantly seems like a good opportunity to lazy "marketers".

    It will work of course but like others said before, only for those who know what they are actually doing.
    Type of niche is in this case crucial.

    Few days ago I was researching a competition at a click bank. Every top product in fitness-weight loss related category has video instead of traditional copy.

    Should I use video on my website as well? I don't think so. It's already stinking like "sale", I mean Dead Duck.

    I don't know but those video copies look a bit unprofessional to me.
    Even if I will decide to do this, I still have to write great copy, have to make good "box" for that copy and make high quality video and bunch of other things.

    In my opinion, great video may be even more demanding than classic text copy.

    And if one is going to show his face on that video and directly talk to prospect, better for him if he is GOOD in what he is doing.

    Anyway, I'm not an expert here so you decide what is better...
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  • Profile picture of the author DogBite
    Long form is not dead. It depends on your audience. If long form were dead then Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazier would be out of business. John Carlton would be looking for a new job as well.

    If you are selling to a short attention span audience and your product is a quick sell, then long form may not be the way to go.

    If the product is into the thousands then it is time to get out your pen and create the compelling story with details and bullets and explanation. This client will want to see it in writing.

    Dale
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  • Profile picture of the author Profolegy
    "Video Sales Letters are Dead"
    The Offer is everything
    Test it yourself Sales letters will win overall in the long run.
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    • Profile picture of the author Reeveso
      You know what I think is HILARIOUS about this post?

      There's about 20 different people on here arguing about which is better...yet...maybe 1 or 2 of us (Me, Vin and Scott that I know of - sorry if I forgot anybody else) ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO TEST BOTH STRATEGIES TO SEE WHICH WORKS FOR OUR BUSINESS!

      Guys/girls...there is absolutely NO point in arguing if salesletters, powerpoint videos, real-person videos, or salesletters with videos inside them are the best solution.

      Why?

      Because there is NO blanket "solution" for YOUR business!

      For one business, a salesletter is going to work. For another in a diff. niche, a powerpoint video will work. For another business with a different product in the SAME niche...a real person video will work best if you have a great personality.

      The ONLY thing you need to be worried about...is what works for YOUR business, YOUR product, or YOUR client.

      Hell, if you're that worried about it - do this.

      Get a copywriting client (or do this yourself if you're not a copywriter)... charge them your normal price. Write a long-form salesletter, turn that salesletter into a powerpoint script, and have them make a powerpoint video + a real-person video - all for the same price if you're honestly THAT worried about this.

      Test ALL 3, using the same words (I realize the video wouldn't be the exact same...but similar with the same emotional hot buttons at least).

      Whatever one works best - is best. End of story.
      Signature

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      He puts most of his time and energy into what he's found to be the most profitable secret he's ever discovered.

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      • Profile picture of the author dtendrich
        Originally Posted by Reeveso View Post

        You know what I think is HILARIOUS about this post?

        There's about 20 different people on here arguing about which is better...yet...maybe 1 or 2 of us (Me, Vin and Scott that I know of - sorry if I forgot anybody else) ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO TEST BOTH STRATEGIES TO SEE WHICH WORKS FOR OUR BUSINESS!

        Guys/girls...there is absolutely NO point in arguing if salesletters, powerpoint videos, real-person videos, or salesletters with videos inside them are the best solution.

        Why?

        Because there is NO blanket "solution" for YOUR business!

        For one business, a salesletter is going to work. For another in a diff. niche, a powerpoint video will work. For another business with a different product in the SAME niche...a real person video will work best if you have a great personality.

        The ONLY thing you need to be worried about...is what works for YOUR business, YOUR product, or YOUR client.

        Hell, if you're that worried about it - do this.

        Get a copywriting client (or do this yourself if you're not a copywriter)... charge them your normal price. Write a long-form salesletter, turn that salesletter into a powerpoint script, and have them make a powerpoint video + a real-person video - all for the same price if you're honestly THAT worried about this.

        Test ALL 3, using the same words (I realize the video wouldn't be the exact same...but similar with the same emotional hot buttons at least).

        Whatever one works best - is best. End of story.

        I think a lot of people here have brought up some great points... And I think you've brought up some great ones too...

        That said, I think it's pretty funny to argue against arguing.



        David
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        Copywriting Tips, internet marketing jargon, thoughts, and rants by me.

        Atlanta Copywriter, serving clients worldwide.

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        David Tendrich
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        • Profile picture of the author Reeveso
          Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post

          I think a lot of people here have brought up some great points... And I think you've brought up some great ones too...

          That said, I think it's pretty funny to argue against arguing.



          David
          Haha, you're absolutely right!

          It's hard not getting caught up in the drama. Dam soap operas, TV series (i.e. "Lost), etc., they're conditioning us to love this stuff!

          Funny thing is...I was actually going to point that out in my last post b/c I knew somebody would realize it - but figured I'd stir up a little more drama by not bringing it out just for the fun of it.

          Ok, I'm done with this thread - I have too much to do today!
          Signature

          Jeremy Reeves is a 6-figure sales copywriter who has made his clients MILLIONS of dollars in EXTRA profit with advanced marketing strategies and ninja-like conversion tricks.

          He puts most of his time and energy into what he's found to be the most profitable secret he's ever discovered.

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    • Profile picture of the author Matthew Duggan
      I can't help feeling that like most trends in marketing, this will go full circle.

      Right now it's still (just about) a novelty for people to see a video on a sales page. At least, it is outside of the IM niche. Within IM, it's already becoming standard.

      There will come a time in internet marketing when sales videos are all you see, no matter what the niche, at which point it will become unusual to have a sales letter.

      Are sales letters dead? No, of course not. To me, the sales letter is the brochure you get after you watch the car advert and decide you want to find out more about it.

      Sales videos are a way to make it easier for viewers, but there will always be people and niches who prefer to see it in black and white.

      On a side note, I think video proof is here to stay, no matter what happens to the sales letter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Rogers
    This may have been said, but the funniest part is... I just tried for 3 minutes to watch his vid and after the seventh skip and spin I said "fuggit, I don't care!"

    the copy seemed pretty good though if it were a letter I'd probably still be reading it.

    Vin nailed it (from what I read before the bar brawl): It's a combo... be on top of everything, but without the ability to write compelling long-form copy, YOU'RE DEAD.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrainCopy
    Video sales letters, are probably more likely to receive a high conversion rate.
    every "big dog" is using video..frank kern for example perfected it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Originally Posted by UFG View Post

      frank kern for example perfected it.
      My corona just squirted out my nose.

      Perfection is a big word.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

        My corona just squirted out my nose.
        That's a very disturbing visual when the lack of a capital C suggests you're discussing a part of the male anatomy.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author fasteasysuccess
    I feel it really comes down to if you are targeting the right person with your message and you have what they want, they'll read as much as possible. If it's one page or 10, the more interested they are the more they'll read.
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  • Profile picture of the author brunski57
    any communications that is Long and Boring is Dead... because it will get abandon... shortly.

    Make it interesting and entertaining. Then they'll watch or read to the end.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Kemp
    Video marketing works. However, long form sales letters as well as long form emails have proven to convert well. Video may work better in some niches, BUT long forum is certainly not dead. This is Ryan Deiss's hook - that is it. "Shock and Awe" marketing.

    I watched the start of his video and he has just convinced me to never buy a product from him. I don't like his know-it-all guns blazing "spit on your face" marketing attitude. Too much hype.

    What you should do is test both and find out what works in your niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

      It seems like a 100 years ago now but remember when
      people were all the craze about adding audio?

      Rewind this about 4-5 years and we're saying "Yanik Silver
      says adding audio to your sales page will skyrocket
      conversions to 60%!"
      Not forgetting the pop-ups on the bottom of the page...the Scrolling pop-ups on the side...the walk-on live presenter - whatever the flavor of the month is. Must admit I like Josh Anderson's presenter that comes out from behind the headline. That one is way cool. I'd have a naked sheila coming out, of course - "Conversions Skyrocketed".

      Hey what if we had audio comments on the Warrior Forum? What a hoot that would be.

      Back to the coal-face. Hey what does SEO stand for? Anybody know. i gotta write a long-form salepage for it.
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      • Profile picture of the author AustinLadyTam
        Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

        I remember a sales page that was audio only!!!
        The first online radio commercial, huh?
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    • Profile picture of the author andrewkar
      Originally Posted by Nicholas Kemp View Post

      . This is Ryan Deiss's hook - that is it. "Shock and Awe" marketing.
      Nicely said Nicholas Kemp...

      I don't like his style as well, hype.

      BUT

      Hype works well with a great majority of novices...

      Easy money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yoel Cohen
    I remember some guru saying that the length of the sale letter depends on the price of the product...

    In other words if a product was expensive the sales letter should be longer and if the product was cheaper the sales letter should be shorter..

    I think that you need to touch the emotional triggers that convince a person to buy..

    sometimes its in the first paragraph and sometimes in the last...

    Split testing is the answer!

    Why gamble!
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  • Profile picture of the author eQuus
    It depends on the copy. When Sugarman wrote those long magazine ads in the early 80s, I remember reading them with interest and more than once. He sold by explaining the product in an interesting and fascinating way. Think of a magazine article. Sometimes, the article is bad and you drop it after a few paragraphs. Another you keep reading no matter how many "continued on page ..." you flip through. It's the writer -- not how long or short the copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author GaryJBloomer
    Good copy will always pull a result no matter how long it is.

    Mr Deiss is selling a $197 video training product. If he can persuade people to buy, his method works. All he's doing is reading a long form sales letter into his microphone, recording the result, and delivering it through a video player that has no controls so that people are forced to listen and watch or turn off and--by implication lose out.

    A smart, smart strategy.

    His slides do some of the heavy lifting, but essentially, his video is a PowerPoint slideshow and sadly, not a great one either. But, it does not HAVE to be pretty, it
    just has to work.

    Did I listen all the way to the end? No. Why? His approach didn't grip me. And with ANY copy--long form, video, short, whatever, THAT'S the key: the copy must engage, grip, inspire, and demand action. The copy must connect with a deeply felt need, it must offer something that the reader or viewer identifies with, and it must command attention and action, right there and then.

    With most "guru" style videos like this there's the pitch, the offer, the limited availability and that's it, you're done and, if you buy, out a few hundred bucks
    IF YOU DON'T USE WHAT YOU BUY.

    Powerpoint, Keynote, edited video: it's all the same. But ... and here's another key: there must be an idea behind everything in video or long form copy. There must be a solution to a real problem and the solution has got to ROCK ... and it's got to offer killer value.

    Long sales letters are not dead. However, video IS on the increase and any online marketer who ignores video runs the risk of being left behind. Google likes video. Wordpress likes video. Google owns YouTube. Are you beginning to see a pattern
    here? If you are, and if you want extra visibility, start cranking out videos and get them up and on your site.

    If you see no pattern, well, that's up to you. But video is now easier than ever before to include in any online sales offer so it makes no sense to exclude it. It's NOT difficult. It's NOT expensive. It's NOT technically taxing. It take time and you need to organize your thoughts BEFORE you roll the cameras or the slides with the mic. But people, video now is WAY easier than it was five years ago. Why ignore it?

    I hope this helps. --Gary B.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    All this talk about long-form salescopy being dead - people not reading copy anymore - video taking over etc brings to mind this quote from Howard Gossage, an adman from the '50s -

    "People read what interests them - and sometimes it's an ad"
    He was a beautiful writer. Paired with a good Art Director. Here's some of his work. The Sistine Chapel one was very famous - http://www.lacreativeclub.com/gossage.html

    Yeah...people don't read long copy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Matthew Duggan
      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      All this talk about long-form salescopy being dead - people not reading copy anymore - video taking over etc brings to mind this quote from Howard Gossage, an adman from the '50s -

      He was a beautiful writer. Paired with a good Art Director. Here's some of his work. The Sistine Chapel one was very famous - A Howard Gossage Sampler

      Yeah...people don't read long copy.
      Very good point. If they're rabid buyers of whatever you're selling, they'll read all you give them and want to know more.
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  • Profile picture of the author nemesis
    I have to say from my own experience that I dislike long sales letters - I just want to get to the bottom line! But I also have some problems with videos. Videos that 'auto ply' with no way to control them. Videos that are entirely too long in getting the sales points across (I mean 20 to 30 minutes or more) only to find you don't want or need the product or service being offered. Videos that do not have a link to get you around listening to the whole thing.

    I think these all do a disservice to the customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Harlan
    Originally Posted by dtendrich View Post

    Hey,

    I just checked out Ryan Deiss's sales video for Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

    ...He blatantly says that long copy's dead -
    and that video is the only way to go these days.

    He also throws out some figures saying once he
    ditched long form sales letters, his conversions
    went from 2.1% to 6.9%, which he discovered
    from sending equal amounts of traffic to a
    split test of video vs. long copy.

    What do you think? What's your take on this?

    David
    Must have been a different Ryan Deiss that had me do a sales letter for him.

    It made 4 million for him I'm told.

    Long form sales letter.

    Yeah. It's dead.

    And I have a bridge to sell you.

    Peace.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonathanP
    I've actually heard this too and not just from Ryan Deiss. One of the top marketers I know who focuses in the network marketing industry and relevant niches, Jonathan Budd, changed his 7 Figure Networker sales page to a video and he said the conversions went way up. I don't remember the exact percentage but I remember it being a very very good improvement.
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  • Profile picture of the author willyboy104
    It isn't very difficult to write a long sales page and since most people still use long sales pages, why not instead of scrapping them altogether like some believe. Just combine both in to one sales page?

    Headline then - Video at the top of the page - with order button underneath - then the normal dear reader or hello blah blah blah....

    Surely that would be more effective?
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    haha...

    Nice thread.

    Sales letters are dead... PPC is dead... SEO is dead... Email is dead... Membership Sites are dead... Always going to be someone out there saying something awesome is dead.

    Not knocking Ryan Deiss at all... he's obviously CRUSHING it with his course by crafting his argument... and based on his results, sales letters may be dead.

    ...

    BTW, you can't argue with Vin.

    I tried to do that many a time...

    And all that happened after that was more Vin Montello letters ended up in my swipe file to study.

    + now he's one of only like 3 people I'll ever consider advice from when I see he's posted something somewhere about copywriting.

    You can't argue. You will and MUST give up and become the student. It's worth it in $.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dale Fisher
    We have heard that letter are dead before, yet they are everywhere and still comvert. Shouldn't overlook video though, because in certain markets it has killer conversion if done well and with good "copy."
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    I like Ryan (& Perry) and think he's one of the few
    guys who churn out useful products but you know
    the guy would say camels are dead if he could
    breed elephants with a hump.

    Not so long ago according to Ryan ,Google was dead,
    and it had to be Facebook, then Ryan brought out "his"
    Gmail advertising program and Google suddenly
    did a JC and was resurrected as the next best
    thing since sliced bread.

    I hear what Ryan's saying and there's no doubt at all
    that you can replace long copy , verbalize it word for
    word into a video only page and outperform the long copy.

    You can do this pretty convincingly running the traffic
    to a simple A/B split test , it's not rocket science and I
    don't doubt for a second that his figures are truthful
    and accurate.

    BUT....

    Results in one market or niche are not a basis for making
    a blanket all encompassing catch all statement that
    long copy sucks and videos own .

    Different markets, niche's, demographics all have
    different tastes.

    As if this wasn't enough of a spanner in the works as
    far as suggesting long copy is dead, the traffic
    source is also huge.

    I'll bet the farm Ryan is e-mailing his list or it's his JV
    partners, that's very warm , often pre-sold traffic,
    and probably in the IM niche where video works
    fine as the market is so adjusted to it.

    So niche,traffic source, audience demographic all play
    a major part in whether video outsells long copy.

    Not to mention the fact your video may well have
    injected more personality into the message than your
    copy did because you don't happen to be the
    best copywriter in the world. If you're not the greatest
    copywriter in the world but you can talk the talk, it's
    easier to inject feeling into video, so again, it may
    well not be a duel between long copy and video, it
    may simply be your copy writing sucks compared to your
    acting , how about getting a great copywriter to
    write your video script - then comparing conversions,
    then you might have a half decent comparison - almost.

    There is , as always, only ever one solution to this issue
    and it's not to guess or argue over which is best, it's
    simply to test and see what works for you within
    your specific setup.
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  • Profile picture of the author KhadijahChapman
    You can do with video the same thing you can do with long copy, especially if you use a screen capture program... and video marketing is more of the new trend..howeve I don't ever see long copy ever being a thing of the past..

    However whichever you decide, its need to be done with clear and concise precision. Video seems to be more personal, more vibrant... however some people prefer to read, especially if it is a more high ticketed item.

    I enjoy facts, and I like them up front - and I really enjoy getting everything I need to know out and in the open as fast as possible so that I can skip the commercial and get right into the thick of things.

    Like most people, time is one thing that I don't have much of so I like to get the facts, make my decision, and if it is within my price point during the time I am reviewing the product. Then lets get on with it, the sooner, the better for me..

    In closing, I like both, but I don't like neither to be to long or to over exaggerated, just give me solid facts as painlessly and as quickly as possible.. but that is just my take on the subject, and I hope my comments helped...
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    • What's amazing in this thread is how many people think they are their customer.
      Just because you don't read long sales letters doesn't mean nobody does.
      Just because you hate videos that have no controls doesn't mean prospects do it.

      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      Those 4 items are far more likely that somebody spending 30+ minutes reading 1 page of marketing BS. That just doesn't happen. Not in printed junk mail, and surely not online.
      Eben Pagan's copy for Guru Mastermind was 23 pages long. Trust me, I read the whole thing 3 times before taking a buying decision.

      Same thing for the infamous 28 page "Mafia Report" (aka, the sales letter for Mass Control 1.0)

      Originally Posted by RyanParenti View Post

      Who really reads the entire copy?
      I do.
      And I think there are a few other people online who don't have ADD and are still able to read more than a paragraph without chasing another butterfly.

      Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

      In fact, long videos have one, huge, fatal flaw -- you can't quickly and easily scan through them.

      Videos can be a great supplement to a conventional sales letter... but they're not a replacement for them.
      If 2% of people need to "scan" when they read, but 6% of people can remain involved in a long-form video..
      Then you still make more money off the 6%.

      That's basic direct response. You don't care much about the fact that 94% people HATED your headline, if that 6% conversion rate still beats the control.

      Originally Posted by prettyboy View Post

      He did make a huge mistake by not having a buy button on the page and hoping that people would sit and listen to him talk until his buy button magically appears.
      Have you ever done face to face selling ?
      If you try to close someone before describing the product, you'll ruin conversions.
      If you describe the product before giving a vision of what it will do, you'll most likely reduce conversions too.

      Having a "buy" button from the get-go would be a very bad idea.
      I guess Ryan knows. He was split-testing several different timing sequences on one of his recent sales videos.
      (I dissected the scripts to find out that he was testing having the button right away, showing it after 1 sec, 30 sec, 5 min, etc..)

      Originally Posted by DogBite View Post

      If the product is into the thousands then it is time to get out your pen and create the compelling story with details and bullets and explanation. This client will want to see it in writing.
      I guess Jeff Walker was stupid to sell product launch manager with video... Just like Frank Kern was wrong with his last 3 launches.

      Why would people want to "see it in writing" anyway ? Do you get pissed off at infomercials because they don't send out the printed pitch to you ?

      Originally Posted by Matthew Duggan View Post

      There will come a time in internet marketing when sales videos are all you see, no matter what the niche, at which point it will become unusual to have a sales letter.
      Right now, the audio sales letter is pretty unusual.
      I'm not sure it would convert much...

      When a format is more convenient than another one, OR more time and cost-effective, the old one will get beaten repeatedly.
      What I mean by time/cost effective is this :
      If it costs you a fortune to hire a copywriter...
      and it takes two weeks to craft a sales letter...
      But you can make selling videos in a day...
      Sometimes it makes sense to stick to video (which I do in my business) because you are able to send more offers and make more money EVEN IF the video might convert less than the written pitch.

      Originally Posted by honestbizpro View Post

      Special 3D sales pages are coming...I am selling the glasses!
      That would be so awesome.

      Sebastien
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  • Profile picture of the author puppetmaster
    I think one of the biggest takeaways I got from the famed Bencivenga 100 Seminar frames this discussion perfectly:

    "Format Changes Leads to Breakthrough Results."

    Meaning... The popularity of the magalogs and bookalogs in the DM world today was because the marketers tested the same copy between the long sales letter and the magalog and found response rates skyrocket through the roof. Why? It's because the freshness in format helps the audience take in marketing messages in way they never expected before.

    Of course... When the market is saturated... The customer gets smart and response rates plummet after a while... Then the hunt is one for a shiny new format to wrap all that persuasion copy around.

    The video is the magalog of today. A format that is doing well for a whole bunch of marketers. However... The effect will last a fairly short time... Given the industries to pillage and plagiarize to the point of oversaturation.

    My opinion? By all means test and tweak... And more importantly... Look for that elusive shiny new format that break all conversion records and milk it dry until the copycat latecomers start flooding the market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshness
    Done well, with either, you shouldn't even notice wether you are reading long form or watching a video... you will have already been grabbed by the virtual nuts and will be making up ways to justify yet another purchase to yourself!

    Or am I just an easy mark?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Steel
    He is simply using that argument to sell his product.

    Long sales letters are king *BUT* he knows lots of people don't believe this.

    ... so he's dropping the bait to hook individuals of that market.

    There's no smoke or mirrors here ... he's just targeting the "long sales letters don't work" market.

    js
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    • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
      I like some long sales pages. I like them more if they have a short video (not one of those tv commercial type with the music)

      I always start at the headline area and skip to the price. Then I will start to go through the rest of it.

      I think long sales letters are good if they are interesting (some are SO boring)
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  • Profile picture of the author dyadvisor
    You can discuss this 3 ways forever. Long, short, video - they all have their place.
    However one point holds true:

    When the buyer is ready, close and stop your message. Quality of words is the king.
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  • Profile picture of the author SilentX
    Hm.. I hope long copy isn't dead, because I have no skills in making video >_>;
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
      Another BORING read-the-type-onscreen video came out the other day by Er*c R@ckefeller:



      I'm sure some can watch the almost 15 minutes of video, but I barely made it to the 1 minute mark.

      Give me a 1 page sales letter of the above and I can skim read it in less than 2 minutes. (Maybe less than a minute.)
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      • Profile picture of the author AP
        Any good marketer knows the correct answer...

        TEST

        Every market, every niche, age bracket, product is unique.

        What about people who have dial-up (ever live in Michigan) and video won't load, then what?

        ~AP
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        • Profile picture of the author lamberw
          Different methods will work with different niches and for people who have different modalities of internalising information. Visual learners are likely to be receptive to video and sales letters.

          Audio learners will prefer the videos.

          The real truth is to test it in your niche and you don't need to buy Ryan's product to be able to do that.
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          • Originally Posted by Dayne Dylan View Post

            Just my two cents, and there is NO way that is worth $197 if you can already do successful copywriting and have even an ounce of knowledge of how to make online videos.
            Well, I guess you realize that you're speaking about 3... maybe 4 people in the back of the room.
            The vast majority of people can't write effective copy, much less do great video.

            Would you say that no copywriting course is worth $197 ?

            Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

            Give me a 1 page sales letter of the above and I can skim read it in less than 2 minutes. (Maybe less than a minute.)
            And then... after these 2 minutes of skimming, do you end up buying ?

            Originally Posted by lamberw View Post

            The real truth is to test it in your niche and you don't need to buy Ryan's product to be able to do that.
            It makes sense.
            However, you do need to test between a GOOD salesletter and a GOOD video, which means you'd need training in both.
            Whatever the market, I'll bet a good salesletter will win hands-down against a bad video, and a good video will beat the heck out of a bad salesletter...

            I find it funny that people actually advise people to test before they get the training, which makes no sense at all.
            In my own business, I found that laying out a script for a video and shooting / uploading would take me 2-6 hours tops, and still get me a 2% conversion rate, when writing a sales letter good enough to beat the video will take me a week or more...
            So I prefer to go the easy way.

            Sebastien
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      • Profile picture of the author dannyadams
        Banned
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
          Originally Posted by dannyadams View Post

          Skimmers don't get the value of the product. That's part of the problem with the long form sales letter.

          They scroll down, see the price, have nothing to justify the price, and leave.

          A video (WITHOUT CONTROLS) may loose a few people who aren't patient enough to watch the entire video but if you headline it right and keep it short, it can work well.
          Depends on the skimmer. I'll skim a sales letter, but only to see what the product is about. Once I know what it offers, then the price may become a consideration. I've never skimmed down just to see the price and then left the page without at least finding out what the product is supposed to do.

          One of the reasons why this debate is still ongoing is that everyone has little personal preferences like that. I've heard a significant number of people (some even on this forum) who say that as soon as they see a long form sales letter, they exit the page because "All those internet scam products use those same kinds of letters, with the long page and the big red headline, so this one must've been a scam too!" I've heard similar comments about infomercials, and yet infomercials still sell. Give it enough time and those people will be (and I'm sure some already are) saying the same thing about video sales letters.

          You can't please everybody.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dayne Dylan
    Banned
    Deiss says this is "new" technology and a whole new approach to salesletters? Really? What a joke. Video and videos in salesletters have been around for years. This is nothing "new".

    GOOD sales letters will never die. These can be short ones, long ones, etc. I would much rather read a sales letter than hear someone go ON and ON like Deiss does in that video. Honestly, it gets on my nerves.

    Just my two cents, and there is NO way that is worth $197 if you can already do successful copywriting and have even an ounce of knowledge of how to make online videos.
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  • Profile picture of the author Russell Hall
    Some really worthwhile points on this topic that's drawn a lot of thoughtful input.

    For me I think the trend is clear,.. and this is echoed by the likes of Ryan Deiss, Armand Morin and Michel Fortin (who predicted this trend 3 years ago when he wrote "Death of the Sales Letter").
    Prior to the "video revolution" long sales letters were the norm as far as weaving the sales message and builiding emotion.
    I tend to speed skim long copy these days whereas a few years ago I would stop to read a lot more. I find that a nice combo of video with body copy is a great format,.. and video where copy PPT slides are crafted into the video are also terrific.

    My experience is that you need to be doing both,.. video and sales copy and to be conscious of the audience attention span and just use the best methods of getting your message across or even getting them onto your list ASAP and then working your sales story across more gradually over time to get the sale.
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    • Profile picture of the author rafib
      It really, really depends. There are tons of 15 minute videos that you need to sit through to even SEE the ending, that are claiming amazing conversion rates. But when I watch people in real life who are interested in the product, they never have the patience to sit through it.

      So can video work? Yes.

      Can sales copy work? Yes.

      Can a combination work? Yes.

      Ultimately, it depends how it's done, who your audience done, and then testing to see what works the best.

      -Rafi
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  • Profile picture of the author Ricci Cox
    I think both have their place personally.

    My first ever product sold out and that was sending traffic direct to a classic-type of sales letter (which was over 24-pages long printed-out!). And this converted very well!

    And I have used the long-form sales letter method very recently, so there is no doubt it still works if done properly...

    In my humble opinion, the long form sales letter will NEVER die. As long as the copy is awesome... and gripping... and emotional... and gets the prospect fired up enough to take action, then you WILL succeed with a long sales letter - I GUARANTEE it.

    For anyone with doubts, read some of the great copy writers sales letters - Ted Nicholas, Gary Halbert, etc. And then compare it to one of the many long, boring video sales letters kicking around the IM scene at the moment - see which one gets you going. I know where my money is...

    Having said all of that, there is no doubt that video does work in certain niches (particularly Internet Marketing niche it seems) but to just ditch the sales letter because of one persons says so would be CRAZY.

    Personally, I think a combination of the 2 could work well in certain niches. I plan to try this out in a couple of niches this year...

    A main killer headline with a short, interesting video underneath, which then leads the prospect into the main sales copy underneath. I think it could work very well indeed.

    But hey, that's just my opinion...
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    Idea Hatchery

    Rather long copy ish......

    Like I said, Ryan would tell you Camels
    are extinct if he could breed horses with humps.

    This from somebody who likes his material.

    You do have to take what some folks
    say with a heavy dose of salt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dainis
    At my Cure Tinnitus Member Community, people do not seem to buy from my long form sales copy here Start Healing From Tinnitus | Cure Tinnitus Community

    ...they buy from tough to find direct payment links in emails after a healthy dose of earth-shatteringly awesome, deeply caring, up-front...free...information.

    In a sense, for me, the sales letter is dead, because it's a sales process. Each little "piece" of the sales letter a la John Carlton needs to be in place, but those pieces may be divided between articles, video, calls, and short form copy.

    Sure, you can keep your long form copy available, because "it's all there," but my eyes roll into the back of my head when I need to read another long form sales letter. Even when it's in a niche I'm interested in.

    So, it's up to us to densely pack our sales messages in as concise a manner as possible...and fluffy irrelevant video will get you turned off just like fluffy irrelevant copy will get you ignored...

    AP said it best: TEST.
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  • Profile picture of the author affiliatechick
    My opinion, coming from my "consumer" side, is that I hate reading long sales letters or copy that make you have to scroll down forever... I just want to know what you have, what it will do for me, and what I have to do to go about purchasing it, if i like what I see/read in the first place... that's it. With long sales letter, people tend to explain their life story and don't even get to the actual product until the end... maybe there are times that call for a long sales letter, but in general short and sweet converts me better... that's just my opinion...
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    I actually prefer the sales letter over videos, sure the information is still limited but I feel you get more out of that than a short video. Plus I like to read lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrainCopy
    I actually prefer the video over long sales form.
    I actually purchased this product, and I think it's great!
    He also mentioned that you should keep the video at no more
    then 14 minutes long.
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  • Profile picture of the author abhinav
    He's saying that because he wants to sell his course, ofcourse your offer in the end will be everything. You can try no. of sales letter to see its conversion and keep on improving.
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  • Profile picture of the author SVLABS
    What a great conversation. I wonder how many sales Ryan got from this thread.

    Copy writing has been around for a very long time. As its been pointed out plenty of times, circumstances call for different approaches. Sometimes long copy is going to outsell video and short copy. Other times it will work differently.

    In the end nothing is dead. Copy is copy no matter if it's spoken or if it's written. Ever been to a pitch fest? It's all spoken copy, and its long form.

    My company specializes in video branding and video marketing across different platforms from video blogs to streams to sales pages. Each product or service is different. Some pages will have copy with the video. Others will have just the video with a headline. Some are opt-in while others are direct to a payment page.

    Golden rule: everything was tested. Every combination, every placement, every phrase both in the text copy and in the video copy.

    Are we starting to see a pattern emerging yet? In my biased opinion, video is a brilliant medium to use for your sales and promotion but its not the be all and end all.

    Nothing is dead!
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  • Profile picture of the author geegel
    ALL blanket statements are wrong. Oh wait

    There's a place for every format and just in case you missed it let me quote someone who posted above me.

    TEST
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  • Profile picture of the author eaglechick
    I hate watching videos and then you have to guess where to click and some videos don't give the opportunity to stop or opt out.

    If a sales letter is too short - I feel cheated
    Appreciate when there is no flashy cars and get a medium length intro but an in-depth explanation on what the product is about and what I can expect from it.
    Please not a 101 testimonials - 5 is about the limit I can handle
    Clear instructions on where to click!
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  • Profile picture of the author fypnlp
    Originally Posted by HypeFree View Post

    I think every form of sales i active not dead: some like video, some like audio, some like text, some will like holograms. Whatever works in whatever combination!

    Totally agree
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    Great topic!

    In Ryan's sales videos, did he use the existing sales letter as a script?

    If not, he changed two variables in one test.
    1. From the old copy to the new copy.
    2. From providing the copy as text to providing the copy as a spoken-word performance using video.

    It's impossible to prove that point 2 alone was what made the difference. This test is like a restaurant that served a different menu at different prices in a different neighborhood at a different time of day. Did the new drink options cause the difference in profits?

    I think that a lot of the discussions really miss the point, by arguing about the wrong thing. Mark Joyner uses the phrase, satisfy your buyer's thirst then offer them another glass.

    Goals: create rapport, show understanding of the buyer's problem, show a solution, show the solution could work for them, take away fear about ordering, show how to order, invite the order now.

    These goals never change. The way to satisfy them does change.

    The form this takes could be different in each situation. Some people want and expect big plastic cups. Some people want a long stemmed crystal goblet. Some insist that their cool drink include tinkling ice cubes. Some want to see a ceramic pitcher with water evaporating from the sides to cool the contents. Some require a high-tech, double-walled plastic thermos with vacuum insulation. Some beverages are best served to people sitting down where there is a tablecloth. Some get passed from fan to fan on the bleachers.

    I might enjoy all of these situations in a week.

    So, what's the best cup?

    What's the best structure for the sales pitch?

    How about: the one each particular audience is most ready to use and buy from?

    The point of a letter is that it's a condensed version of a salesman's pitch, sent where it's not affordable to send a salesman in person. Some people would prefer to get that message by video. No matter how high-def video gets, some people will still prefer to read. Give them their beverage of choice in a cup they like.

    Chris
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    • Originally Posted by Mr. Enthusiastic View Post

      No matter how high-def video gets, some people will still prefer to read.
      It's about to change...
      Some videos are so High-Def and crisp now, you can almost read the 0's and 1's in them. That should get everyone on the same page
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  • Profile picture of the author tswartz
    The product will sell itself if it is a good product, but the sales letter definitely helps. The trick here is making the sales letter new, while sticking with the best method for conversion. I would agree, overall, that the broad/bulleted "dear friend" letter is probably on its last leg.

    We're also getting much more saturated in most markets than a few years ago, which could have something to do with the decrease too?
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  • Profile picture of the author power88
    Not at all true. Copy should be long enough to make the sale. No shorter. No longer. That's always been the case and always will be.
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  • Profile picture of the author DCromwell
    I really think this is more buyer specific. That's a bold statement to say that long sales copy is dead. If that were the case, those of us with long standing 2-4+ page sales pages would suddenly see income and leads bottom out while bounce rates climb to 80% or more.

    This is one of those issues where it's important to understand your buyer persona and recognize that as we make advancements in the technology used online those buyer preferences are going to change as well.

    Some niche markets and the buyers within are going to respond more favorably to video, like Nike. The groundswell surrounding the Nike World Cup video is a perfect example. Could you get the same effect with a video droning on about diapers, forex or bra's?

    Ok.. I'd probably watch a video about bra's.

    If you see conversion plummet for a sales page that typically does well, I would recommend taking the time to re-evaluate your target market (buyer persona included) and see if that copy is still what they want. As mentioned in previous posts, this is certainly a candidate for split testing.
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  • My personal belief is that if you don't offer both forms, written and video, of your sales presentation, you're asking for less conversion than is possible.

    The reason I say this is based on what I've learned/had reinforced by Eben Pagan who's learned from Wyatt Woodsmall about different learning styles and how to appeal to them in all of your marketing and content.

    Writing content, which in essence is one of the greatest marketing tools you can use, that appeals to the 4 different learning styles should communicate...

    What the information is...

    Why you should care about it...

    How to accomplish the outcome...

    And What to do Now to start on your path to profiting from the information you're absorbing

    If all of these are appealed to in your sales/marketing material, you leave no one's learning preference out.

    BUUUUT... if you use the video salesletter/or marketing as the only option and you force people to learn at your pace, you risk alienating the people who know just want to know how to get the results they want because you've trapped it 15-25 minutes down the road.

    If there were a print letter WITH the video that let's these people who don't have the time nor the patience to "Hang Out" with a promo, they can skim to the exact parts they need to see to be convinced and buy once they're satisfied.

    I know some people who HATE video salesletters. They won't watch em. And it pisses them off that they're forced to follow that path and that they can't just GO to the parts they want to.

    For me, it's been quite a while since I watched a full marketing video or salesletter. I don't hate em or love em', I'm kinda "Eh" about em. When I wasn't as pro-active with my business and looking for distractions to kill time, I used to go through a lot of that stuff.

    Whenever one comes up, I always ask, "Do I have time to watch this incomplete but useful information for 25 minutes or is there some other important **** I need to do with this time?"

    And since I've stopped wasting time, I skip the marketing and salesletters EVEN though I'm the ideal prospect for them.

    Now, just a couple days ago, I can admit that I absorbed the entire argument that I needed to for Jason Fladlien's February seminar that's coming up. Took about 7 minutes of my time but that was all I needed to float down the page and decide this was something I wanted to participate in.

    The analogy that comes to my naughty mind right now is porno that has the cheesy story line and dialogue woven into it... and porno that just gets down to the ****ing. Different strokes for different folks, right. :-)

    Not everyone needs a full blown production to get their rocks off.

    For me it makes sense to address the 4 learning styles and let people buy the way the want, at the pace they want to, not the way you think is "cool" or think they should because you're too lazy to provide both. Video with Written below makes the most sense for me.

    And for those who say written is dead, if the argument above isn't enough to convince you of the common sense that says otherwise, just know that NONE of the notetakingnerd sales material is on video... and we're doing LAV-LAV-LOVELY numbers.
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