by cjp231
13 replies
I sell a business services to a group of professionals. They are typically successful, well established and over the age of 40. I've spent the last month consuming all of the copywriting instruction I can swallow. My goal is to design a website that sells. Here is my dilemma though, almost every single copywriting expert seems to use drastic hype to sell their products.

For example: How to lose 10 pounds in two days while eating whatever you heart desires...

The only time I have seen major companies and market leaders use these types of copy is through direct mail. Their websites rarely use "letter style" copywriting (or any hype for that matter). Are these companies so full of themselves that they are missing out on the ability of copywriting to convert prospects? Is copywriting not effective on a traditional website?


Does anyone know of an expert who creates selling websites that are not in a letter format? (or have an example of a selling website)

Finally, should I just go with a letter style sales pitch because it works best?
#advice
  • Profile picture of the author cjp231
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    • Profile picture of the author lonestar164
      First, can you turn your sales page into a video presentation, even if it's a well-done Powerpoint turned video? You can rely more on the visuals and less on the hype if you use video.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    There's no single "right way" to write copy.

    What you seem to be struggling with is matching your message to your
    market.

    I would be fibbing if I told you writing good copy is easy or a paint-by-numbers
    affair. Don't use hyperbole in your letter if it's not consistent with the
    positioning of your business.

    The more educated and experienced your market is the less they'll be
    persuaded by hype anyway - they'll look for logical structure that tells
    them what they get and what their risks are, if any.
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    In your post you are mentioning that others are positioning themselves by using certain marketing methods.

    Why the heck would you want to do the same thing?

    Remember your prospect is probably super busy and his radar is not going to go off with the "typical" message/format. However, she may look your way for a sec if she hears something to do with what is keeping her up every night.

    Be different.
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    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Here's a website for a product that sells well to affluent,
    discerning and skeptical over-40s.

    ROM - The Four Minute CrossTrainer

    The claims are pretty hard to swallow, but the company
    actually tells you not to buy, they tell you to rent the
    product on a trial basis and validate the claims yourself.

    I think the ROM marketing evolved over time. You can
    see how the positioning of the product is served by the
    pragmatic trial offer and the risk reversal.

    The product is extensively advertised in print, which ads
    thousands to the price for the end user, but people
    still buy it... and they aren't all rich - many buyers have
    spent a quarter of their annual earnings to buy it.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      cjp231,

      The market you describe is pretty much the kind of market I write to, without hype.

      I also teach people how to use dramatic writing techniques without crossing the line into overdone, formulaic stuff that is certain to turn off many of the people you are trying to reach.

      Here is a sample page that talks directly to well-educated readers without over-the-top salesmanship:

      http://www.yudkin.com/become.htm

      Two other copywriting teachers you might want to learn from are Peter Bowerman and Nick Usborne.

      Good luck,
      Marcia Yudkin
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      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I don't think that the danger of selling to the "sophisticated and rich"
    is one of using hype but quite the opposite--overestimating the appeal
    of the boring corporate speak.

    Just consider the circulation number of tabloids and you know there are
    many "sophisticated" closet readers.

    This is not an argument for or against hype, but maybe you shouldn't
    be as 'careful' as you think you should be.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      I don't think that the danger of selling to the "sophisticated and rich"
      is one of using hype but quite the opposite--overestimating the appeal
      of the boring corporate speak.
      Ray,

      I agree with you that falling into the trap of boring corporate speak might be just as bad as using hype - or worse.

      However, I don't agree that those are the only two options.

      It's possible to write riveting copy for an educated and aware audience that does not use hype and is not in a corporate style but that uses a lot of other tools in a good copywriter's toolbox. The company I know of that does the best at this is Learning Strategies. I found out about them from a list someone posted somewhere of the top 10 direct mailers. Boy, is their direct mail copy juicy! And yet, it comes across as honest and devoid of any of the tricks that people tend to label as "hype" - to my mind, at least.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        Ray,

        I agree with you that falling into the trap of boring corporate speak might be just as bad as using hype - or worse.

        However, I don't agree that those are the only two options.

        It's possible to write riveting copy for an educated and aware audience that does not use hype and is not in a corporate style but that uses a lot of other tools in a good copywriter's toolbox. The company I know of that does the best at this is Learning Strategies. I found out about them from a list someone posted somewhere of the top 10 direct mailers. Boy, is their direct mail copy juicy! And yet, it comes across as honest and devoid of any of the tricks that people tend to label as "hype" - to my mind, at least.

        Marcia Yudkin
        Marcia,

        I agree there is a middle ground but I was just pointing out
        that the danger is often to the right rather than to the left.

        BTW, I just signed up for the Learning Strategies newsletter at
        your suggestion.

        -Ray Edwards
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        The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    The thing you've gotta remember is that most of the guys doing the marketing of big businesses aren't in the trenches like us.

    They have MBAs where they've learned stuff from a textbook and a professor who doesn't have much (if any) experience in the field.

    Not to mention that what you can get away with in regards to advertising as an established company is VERY different to what you can get away with as a startup or small business.

    Ultimately... you want to make your product as exciting as you can without lying.

    If your product honestly sheds 10 pounds in 2 days (safely) then you'd be crazy not to emphasize that.

    Ultimately the only way you'll know is to test... but in my experience that corporate-speak stuff isn't useful in most markets for most small companies.

    -Dan
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author cjp231
      Marcia,

      I have used the info you give away on your site two times over the last few years to create business names. Thanks for the help. Also learning strategies is a great example of what I would like to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Originally Posted by cjp231 View Post

    Here is my dilemma though, almost every single copywriting expert seems to use drastic hype to sell their products.

    For example: How to lose 10 pounds in two days while eating whatever you heart desires...
    While endeavoring to facilitate a broader acceptance
    of a corporate communications paradigm that fully
    integrates accepted best-practices and verbiage that
    relies primarily on emotion-neutral positioning...

    ...please remember that the only thing anyone gives
    a flying fig about is what's in it for THEM, personally.

    "Will this make me look smarter to my boss?"

    "Can I lift the numbers with this service so I don't
    come up short next quarter?"

    "Will this solution FINALLY fix my budget problem?"

    ...etc.

    Is there a reason that you're trying to SELL on the
    web instead of capturing leads and selling in a more
    appropriate corporate arena - via phone/mail?

    Frankly, I don't often find the web to be the optimal
    media for selling into the corporate market - but it's
    a fantastic place to acquire leads and PRE-sell...

    ...to deliver whitepapers and digital content, etc.

    Anyway, food for thought.

    Best,

    Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author ramccluskey
    I have used a peer or client mentoring model in every business I have been in. Try to find several trustworthy and forthright people in the category to which you are appealing and asked them what kind of sales copy impresses them. If possible, present them with some choices to evaluate. You will soon learn what does and does not work.
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  • Profile picture of the author MillionDollarCopy
    As long as you have a solid grasp on what your market wants from you, what they're trying to achieve, and what they're trying to avoid, you have what you need to address those things.

    You don't necessarily need to hype it up, but you DO have to do it creatively, and there are many ways to approach a market with creativity while checking the hype at the door.

    Test it. That's what it's all about.

    I recently wrote a squeeze page for a client that converted at 54%. He was convinced that his website was hideous and needed an overhaul, so he paid a bunch of money, got himself a shiny-new website that HE loved, same squeeze page, and it had a whopping 8% conversion. Instead of being stubborn, he took the financial hit on the new site, tested the old site again, and the numbers went right back up into the fifties. so...long dumb story short:

    Don't be married to what YOU like. Let your market dictate it, because the numbers don't lie.
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