Ryan Deiss - Long Sales Letters Are Dead... Or Not.

15 replies
I'm not saying anything bad about Ryan.

I don't know the guy personally, but the people I do know who've talked to him say he's an upstanding guy and the products I've seen of his are generally pretty good.

Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

"Old fashioned long-form sales letters ARE DEAD..."

"I will probably never write a long form sales letter again..."

His latest pitch...

Idea Hatchery

Looks like a sales letter to me.

I'm not taking a cheap shot at Ryan.

However long copy is not dead. Neither is video.

And I get the feeling in the near future a lot of sites will be a mixture of different media and types of content...

See the following examples...

Target Focus Training -

Online Guitar Lessons

Dating Advice For Men | How to Attract Women and Use Pick Up Lines

And there are dozens more.

Why go this route?

Because the internet is changing. And the way people want to be marketed to (online) is changing.

And ad networks are changing. To even get our ads approved for Google, Facebook and other sources of traffic the site has to have a lot of content. It has to be like a megalogue offline...

The sales message itself has to be too valuable to ignore.

Just my opinion. And I'm happy to elaborate/debate if anyone wants to talk about it.

But, copywriting isn't dead.

And to be fair to Ryan, he said he'd "probably" never write a sales letter again, and I'd say there's a good chance he outsourced this one, so technically he probably wasn't lying

-Scott

P.S. The earlier Diess thread was bumped while I was writing this, I would have posted there but it hadn't been bumped in awhile, and I want to start a discussion on the direction online marketing, both video and written, is taking in the future.
#dead #deiss #letters #long #ryan #sales
  • Profile picture of the author TheGraduate
    Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh View Post

    I'm not saying anything bad about Ryan.

    I don't know the guy personally, but the people I do know who've talked to him say he's an upstanding guy and the products I've seen of his are generally pretty good.

    Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

    "Old fashioned long-form sales letters ARE DEAD..."

    "I will probably never write a long form sales letter again..."

    His latest pitch...

    Idea Hatchery

    Looks like a sales letter to me.

    I'm not taking a cheap shot at Ryan.

    However long copy is not dead. Neither is video.

    And I get the feeling in the near future a lot of sites will be a mixture of different media and types of content...

    See the following examples...

    Target Focus Training -

    Online Guitar Lessons

    Dating Advice For Men | How to Attract Women and Use Pick Up Lines

    And there are dozens more.

    Why go this route?

    Because the internet is changing. And the way people want to be marketed to (online) is changing.

    And ad networks are changing. To even get our ads approved for Google, Facebook and other sources of traffic the site has to have a lot of content. It has to be like a megalogue offline...

    The sales message itself has to be too valuable to ignore.

    Just my opinion. And I'm happy to elaborate/debate if anyone wants to talk about it.

    But, copywriting isn't dead.

    And to be fair to Ryan, he said he'd "probably" never write a sales letter again, and I'd say there's a good chance he outsourced this one, so technically he probably wasn't lying

    -Scott

    P.S. The earlier Diess thread was bumped while I was writing this, I would have posted there but it hadn't been bumped in awhile, and I want to start a discussion on the direction online marketing, both video and written, is taking in the future.
    I just have to look at the prices of his products to know that all that he states might not be the way he says it is

    To sell a $97.00 from just talking to people on a video, you have to be a Mike Filsaime, Eben Pagan, or the likes. There are many things that you have to talk to people about when you are trying to get $100.00 out of their pockets, and just an "ugly duckling video" (like he calls them) won't do the job. yeah you can have an "ugly duckling video" trying to sell an $100.00 product, but you have to also have a link beneath it to an FAQ the size of Texas.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I know I'm late to the party on this one, but has anybody actually tested
      these to see what kind of conversions they get?

      Before we go bashing something, would probably be a good idea to try them
      out and see how they perform.

      Don't you think?

      So...does anybody have any stats that they want to share?
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      • Profile picture of the author Justin Goff
        Our video sales letter for a $39 fat loss product crushed the long copy sales letter.

        It wasn't even close.

        However, the big thing most copywriters don't realize is that the layout of the page is just as important as the copy.

        I've been split testing buttons, colors, and other little things that took our video sales letter from a .68% conversion rate to 1.4% conversion rate (this was over a 500 sale test)

        So make sure you are not only testing the copy - but also everything else on your sales pages...

        - Justin
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        The 31 Day Fat Loss Cure (Affiliates Click Here) - Affiliates are crushing it with our new sales video ($52 Avg Payout). This is the highest paying fat loss product on Clickbank!

        My highly entertaining and FREE podcast about making money online. Check it out -> Marketing.Mayhem.Money
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        • Profile picture of the author nemock
          Originally Posted by Justin Goff View Post

          Our video sales letter for a $39 fat loss product crushed the long copy sales letter.
          ...
          However, the big thing most copywriters don't realize is that the layout of the page is just as important as the copy.
          Wow, that's a pretty clean and simple landing page too. You're selling straight from there? Kudos.

          Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Copywriting isn't dead... unless you're selling a "video sales letter" product

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  • Profile picture of the author Luke Gregory
    Ryan Deiss.. hmm i dont dislike the guy but he will definatly make him self look like a fool for some cash, but ey.. it works!

    I known him to talk about in one product how he knows nothing about SEO and hes never needed it for traffic and then a few months later comes out with a SEO product, i was like WTF lol??
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashique
    Whether you're using a long-form sales letter or a video sales letter, the structure of the content is still the same for both - the script of a video sales letter is almost always similar to a written sales letter.

    However, video sales letters usually receive higher conversion rates in some markets.

    If your top competitors are using video sales letter and have been selling successfully for a while, you should do the same too.

    But if most of your top competitors are using long-form sales letter, you should perform split-tests to figure out if video sales letter convert higher in your market.

    Personally, I prefer a long-form sales letter with a video on top so that if i don't feel like reading the whole page, I can sit back and watch the video part.

    Hope it helps a bit.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Take any strongly converting video salesletters and transcribe them.

      What do you have?

      Yup... A long copy salesletter.

      Salesletters aren't dead.

      Video is just one of many mediums for delivering a sales message.

      Food for thought,

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Folks usually don't apply critical thinking when making decisions.

        Take for example people who get investment advice from a stock broker. The broker makes his money by buying and selling stocks for his clients. How unbiased can his advice be?

        When considering a purchase in the IM niche, critical thinking asks, "What does the marketer have to gain by giving me such-and-such advice?"

        Most people simply buy on emotion.

        Which of course makes "setting the buying criteria" an effective persuasion technique.

        Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author AMangones
    What he did was brilliant... create controversy, and it's working....
    I'd say this should be the take-away, take it and run with it...
    I wouldn't call the sales letter for Idea Hatchery a "long form". It may be only a couple of pages long... it may be long for some markets, short for others.

    What do you guys think about Frank Kern's Mastermind sales letter?
    What he calls, the THE WORST LETTER EVER.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ashique
      Originally Posted by AMangones View Post

      What he did was brilliant... create controversy, and it's working....
      I'd say this should be the take-away, take it and run with it...
      I wouldn't call the sales letter for Idea Hatchery a "long form". It may be only a couple of pages long... it may be long for some markets, short for others.

      What do you guys think about Frank Kern's Mastermind sales letter?
      What he calls, the THE WORST LETTER
      EVER.
      I believe Frank Kern did it purposely for the sake of GETTING ATTENTION from his list of 200,000+ email subscribers.

      The title of the email goes like this: "WORST sales letter ever. Just aweful."

      Who wouldn't open that email? It's just a part of marketing technique to increase the open-rate of an email.

      After all, Frank Kern is a brilliant marketer.
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      Here's the Formula to Make a Lot *More* Money FASTER in ANY Profitable Niche:
      Figure out who your Top Competitors are + Spy on their websites to find their targeted keywords + Do Article Marketing 'like a pro' to Rank #1 in Google for those competitive keywords + Drive warm targeted traffic faster from those articles to your 'money page' = $$$. (Click Here To Learn How To Find Your Competitors' Keywords)
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  • Profile picture of the author jjoshua
    I've watched the video sales letter formula training from Ryan. He said that when he tested certain products, he found that they convert better. He cited an example which got him on an inspiration to teach this: it's a good friend he has (Mike Geary? I couldnt exactly remember off hand right now) who converted well with video sales letters.
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    • Profile picture of the author PMinc
      No one'e made mention of it in this thread yet, so...

      http://www.michelfortin.com/the-deat...e-salesletter/
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      • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
        I was a believer in long sales pages, but video is now
        vital (along with page design) in keeping interest.

        I had a video and a short copy sales page vs a long copy
        sales page. Both gave away a 'tactic' people could start
        using immediately.

        The video page DESTROYED the copy only. We're visual
        creatures (especially men) and video needs to be part
        of the pitch, these days.

        What most people forget is the script needs to be good in
        the video and the host's personality now plays a factor.

        A crappy video page will get crappy results.

        IMHO
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        • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
          This length debate never ceases to amuse me. I never sweat length, I follow a strategy from start to finish and create copy according to the structure of that strategy. The point of copywriting is to make the sale, length only matters in the porn business.
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