How to Find Good, Affordable Copy

What kind of price range are we talking about here?

So you got effective copy within your budget that made back
your investment? Good for you.

I don't think this is an argument against those who charge
$5-10K or more.

-Ray Edwards

Dan,

I know 2 of the guys you mentioned pretty well, and I know who the other guys are.

I'm going to guess these were display ads, or single page mailers, ect?

I'm just asking. Big difference between a display ad and 20 pages of copy.

-Scott

I know David charges a fair bit for a salesletter these days. Not that I believe he works freelance anymore; he's working in a DR firm in Colarado, I believe.

In any case... I don't think it's your niche that can't justify the expenditure of $5 - 10k. I think it would be your business model.

I understand if you don't have the cash to spend $5k+ on a writer. But saying it's not worth it? I can't think of *any* business where $5k wouldn't pay itself back fairly quickly if you were doing things right.

-Dan

Such anger, Mal...

One... I never said his business model was wrong. I said that his business model was what could not justify the $5 - 10k... not his niche.

I think that's a fair comment, considering I can think of a ton of insurance companies that pull in billions every year.

I also don't see how my input into this discussion was condescending.

All I'm saying is that $5 - 10k, while a significant investment, can easily be recouped with good copy used in the right way.

After all... you only have to pay to have the ad written once. You can run it as many times as you want... and continue to make money off it each time.

But thanks for jumping to conclusions...

-Dan

I don't really understand the motive of this post/thread...

...were you (Dan Williams) trying to make those who charge 5-10K feel overpaid or bad about what they charge?

Why would they do that?

1. They can charge 5-10K for a reason: their copy gets indisputable results and they have the proof to show it.

2. See reason 1.

So you found some guys who charge less and have great results.

That's great!

I don't think anyone would say anything negative about that! It's important in no matter what business you deal in that you get the best deal possible and the best results for your money.

Lots of upcoming copywriters charge less as they start out and as they grow eventually start charging more and more as their progress grows.

That said...

How many of these guys will continue to keep charging you the same amount everytime over and over? Eventually, if they keep getting you results, they will charge more...

Evetually you need to start finding someone else who can do the job for 1k...and again, you will never know if that next guy will do a good job.


...and who consistently will they be able to produce these results.

Do these "other guys" you mentioned do this for a living day in and day out?

That's like pitting a guy who sort of does boxing 3 times a week against a trained professional and saying "well this guy does the job"...

Compared to what?

Have you hired a 5-10K writer and got worst results from them?

Here's a fun thing to think about:

"what would happen if someone who charges 5K a sales letter actually did your sales letter or critiqued / improved it...would they be able to make me more money and if so by how much?"

You might not even realize the fact that you are settling.

I know lots of guys who hire sales people and get results from these so-so "run of the mill" sales people...

But the top sales people in that company really know what they are doing and make 300-400% more than the average sales person...in some cases make as much and a team of 10 guys!

Why? They are committed to their craft, they love it and do what others do not do:

They TEST EVERYTHING!!!

Mate, I think it's great that you got a great deal, but consider what you are talking about before putting it on a forum devoted to copywriting and copywriters who do this for a living.

That's like going to my house and telling me I charge too much and don't do a job worth what I'm paid...IN MY HOUSE!

You want to complain or imply something negative, do that at your house, not here.

A trained pro will eat the average copywriter alive for a reason:

Real copywriters live and breath copywriting and hone and practice and test their craft to the 'enth degree so...

You might need to use a 1K copywriter in the mean time but eventually maybe in the future consider hiring a pro and seeing what they can do because...

...they just might know what they are doing!

@dannyadams: I know tons of sites with lots of traffic and no sales...business out in the the real world too...it's hard to get people to come to the door and even harder to sell they something once they are there. Two different things that work together; one without the other and "voila" no business.

Just my two cents.

I haven't seen what every one of them created for you but the advertorial that Dave Babineau did was quite good.

I can't speak for everyone but as a $4-6K "letter guy", my fee depends on the amount of time I need to devote to the project. For example, writing a long-copy online sales letter requires far more time for me than writing an offline postcard mailer so I charge accordingly.

Since this is an internet marketing forum, 90% of the inquiries I get here are for online salesletters (from scratch or rewrites). It's rarely for offline pieces like 3 step DM mailers, postcards, or advertorials.

The other thing is, it's easy to mistake ego for obnoxious on a forum since you can't "hear" the person's tone of voice or the context of what they are saying.

What I will say as a full-time copywriter for 3+ years is that the more you charge, the higher the stakes are to deliver a hit and do it on a regular basis.

If it's an online letter, then there's also a good likelihood that your client has a number of affiliates that will be promoting... they'll be sending thousands and thousands of targeted prospects to the salesletter on launch day, so you do NOT want to deliver a dud and kill that affiliate business relationship for your client.

One of the most important factors for any copywriter is feeling confident... that way the copy they write is emotionally charged and connects with the reader. A depressed or stressed-out copywriter... well, they usually write flat or uninspired copy.

Just my opinion from the trenches.

Take care,

Mike

Quality is not expensive, it's priceless! For those who can afford it, they should never hesitate paying the price for those big guns of the copywriting industry, as they will get you stacks of sales, worth many times the investement in their services. I actually found a very talented copywriter who's not (yet) charging arms and legs and bringing serious results: David Garray. You can check his website at davidgarray(dot)com

I don't think it's portfolio as much as track record.

When my clients come to me, they can see I've got a long list of successes... and have made former clients a LOT of money.

THAT's why they pay my fees.

Same goes for most established copywriters I'd wager.

Plus, let's face it - $4k (or whatever) is peanuts when you're working on a big launch.

Will a guy who charges $5k convert 5x as well as a guy who charges $1k? Maybe, maybe not... but if the guy charging $1k has his skills together I'd say it's unlikely.

Will a guy who charges $5k write a better letter than the guy charging $1k? It's pretty likely, for a variety of reasons.

Will it convert higher? Again, nothing's certain - we all have our good and bad letters - but it's highly probable.

Will those higher conversions be worth an extra $4k? It depends on the numbers, but it's EXTREMELY likely if you're throwing any decent amount of traffic at a sales page.

At the end of the day, it comes down to what you are able/willing to spend.

The guy hiring a $1k copywriter isn't looking for a $5k copywriter. The guy hiring a $5k copywriter isn't looking for a $10k copywriter.

There are exceptions and overlap... but generally (in my experience) people have an idea of what they want to pay. If your price is too low or too high they probably won't be interested.

Of course the idea is that as your career continues and your skills increase (plus you have a better track record) your prices increase too. So there's always guys serving different areas of the market.

A bit of thought on the metrics of ROI on copy.

-Dan

All good copywriting is expensive. The only way to find really good copywriting at an affordable price is to learn it yourself and do the work.

Not necessarily true. By saying "all good copywriting is expensive" you characterize those of us who write affordably as bad. I won't try to convince you otherwise, though. It is the opinion of my clients that matters, and their opinions have been 100% positive so far.

Hi Dan,

I appreciate your public display of acknowledgment. It's nice to see people being praised for their work and efforts.

Classy move.

- Rick Duris

I'm with Paul on this one. You may not always get what you pay for, and some people can't get away with charging big-ticket prices. Some can, though. When they do, there is definitely more pressure to deliver, and you've really got to bring it.

Glad to hear people are coming through for you and giving you a great ROI.

And yes, "affordable" is a relative term. I've had people agree on a price quote without hesitation, while another in a similar market for a similar-size job balks...you never know what "affordable" is...

dannyadams is legend.

if you're not considering super big budget star billing copywrite jedi warriors then why not just learn to pump it yourself? it's really not as big a deal as you make it out to be and it'll give you ample ideas that justify the learning process which you otherwise wouldn't have got outsourcing. I'm all for outsourcing but if you're working online then being able to write decent copy is key. unleas you're gary vaynerchuk or summen

all the best and holla if you need some proofreading or wa'eva
unleashreality

Best way to get stellar copy that's affordable?

Hire a pro-copywriter who needs to fill a hole in his portfolio.

If someone is used to writing copy for health supplements and fitness equipment, he may be willing to work on your Relaxation DVD copy for a steep discount.

I know for myself that if something is A) Unique B)Fun to work on, and C) I can show off to future clients, I will charge a lot less for it.