If you could ask a copywriter any question...

13 years ago

Oh, I really like this thread! I'm sure there are much better questions that could be asked but my biggest need right now is getting the practice and studying the right tools to make sure I am not following someone that has no clue what they are talking about.

So, here are mine:

1. What are 5 or 6 concrete things that a budding copywriter can do to improve their copywriting abilities? (Besides reading, I've done a ton of that and need to do actual exercises to improve.)

2. What copywriters do they look up to that really know their stuff?

Thanks

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MisterWolf

13 years ago

I would like to know how a new copywriter would go about finding local clients to provide services for, how to market to them (especially small, local businesses) and what sort of rates are fair at this level of the trade.

To put my question into sharper focus, I am asking what a new copywriter could offer his local businesses if he is attempting to win them as clients. I am also asking what sort of 'ballpark rates' would be good if they copywriter wants to be paid fairly.

Thank you for the chance to ask questions! I hope you'll post a link to your blog when you answer anything anyone asked so we remember to go check it out!

Thanks
1 reply

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MouseandMice

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MisterWolf

I would like to know how a new copywriter would go about finding local clients to provide services for, how to market to them (especially small, local businesses) and what sort of rates are fair at this level of the trade.

To put my question into sharper focus, I am asking what a new copywriter could offer his local businesses if he is attempting to win them as clients. I am also asking what sort of 'ballpark rates' would be good if they copywriter wants to be paid fairly.

Thank you for the chance to ask questions! I hope you'll post a link to your blog when you answer anything anyone asked so we remember to go check it out!

Not trying to sound like an ass...

But aren't you just "testing the waters" in regards to if you are good or bad at writing copy? I REALLY hope you are not suggesting that you are planning on writing copy for small businesses...

Thanks
1 reply

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Copydog 13 years ago

My question:

You're a seasoned web copywriter. But if you had
to start out NEW again today, what are your top 5
strategies for getting A-grade clients?

Great thread, Cherilyn. Thanks.

Best

Eldo
- [ 1 ] Thanks
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Cherilyn Woodhouse

13 years ago

Great questions, guys! I'll pick a few and start writing about them, I'm not sure how to go about sharing the answers...

Obviously it would be easiest to link directly to the blog posts but that may be seen as self promotional (which I'm always overly aware of, because not only would I hate for some people to think I'm doing that, but I'd hate to encourage others to do it - kind of opens a door to spammers...)

Maybe I'll just PM you if I choose your question and let you know! Of course, my website is in my signature, and if you click on "blog" in the upper right hand corner, it will take you there. You can always subscribe via RSS if you want to see all of the answers coming up!

Thanks again for the great inspiration, guys!

- Cherilyn

Thanks
1 reply

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Rezbi

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Cherilyn Woodhouse

Great questions, guys! I'll pick a few and start writing about them, I'm not sure how to go about sharing the answers...

Obviously it would be easiest to link directly to the blog posts but that may be seen as self promotional (which I'm always overly aware of, because not only would I hate for some people to think I'm doing that, but I'd hate to encourage others to do it - kind of opens a door to spammers...)

Maybe I'll just PM you if I choose your question and let you know! Of course, my website is in my signature, and if you click on "blog" in the upper right hand corner, it will take you there. You can always subscribe via RSS if you want to see all of the answers coming up!

Thanks again for the great inspiration, guys!

- Cherilyn

Cherilyn,

What's wrong with self-promotion as long as you're giving good content.

We are marketers, aren't we?

Thanks

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Cherilyn Woodhouse

13 years ago

True Rezbi, but I'd hate for the warrior forum to become a repository of good sounding forum topics with "check out this blog post..." and a link as the content.

Having been here for so long, I guess I feel the need to set an example!

Maybe I'll copy/paste the blog posts here, and link to them at the bottom if no one minds?

I'm still open to more questions, if anybody has some! I'm using the "Editorial Calendar" plugin for wordpress to schedule these posts over the next couple of weeks, if you're curious how I keep all of these ideas organized

- Cherilyn

Thanks
1 reply

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Matt Morgan

13 years ago

I got a bit carried away and came up with 5 questions,

Firstly I would ask what their method is for showing some proof:

Question a)
Eg- Can I would see some proof/ % of your conversions, and can you explain how you will show me these stats.

and would ask for their 4 best project and their conversions,

Eg-
Sales letter (1)- 8 % conversion rate

Sales letter (2)- 4% conversion rate
Squeeze page (1)- 60% opt-in rate.
one more...

and then ask to see some of their least converting projects too, with their % rates. This can show how open they are to honesty, but then again they can also lie when showing their results.

If i was feeling like using their service I would ask to see some 'stats' as proof- with the script testing software they used to test the %, but generally just would ask for their method of showing some proof/results of their past projects.

Question b)

From starting out as a Copywriter,

How many years Since starting out as a did you take to 'master'/perfect the main skeleton/bulk of your copywriting skills..... using books + Experience + other copywriters + practice.

+ How many years has it been since you started out, untill you have started to teach other students copywriting? until you felt you were ready to be a teacher, how many years was it?

(If you don't teach students, Lets assume you would want to, then how many years do you feel you would be 'ready' to be a teacher, from the absolute start of your career.

Question c)
To what extent would you agree/address on my following statement:

"The best copywriters aren't always the expensivest ones, and the best ones are certainly not the ones whom charge the biggest fees"

My statement based on a basic example: You can get a $4000 sales page done, and a $2500 sales page done by 2 different copywriters, and the $2500 one could convert better - if using and testing with a split testing software.

Question d)

If somebody wanted to learn copywritting, What would be the first 5 steps you would advise them, to get started? (eg Step 1, Read loads of sales letters and study them, Step 2 Learn neuro linguistic programming... etc)

Now a different style of question.

Question e) Has the style of a copywriter's writing changed in the past 5-10 years?

If so...How has the style of copywriting changed in the past 5-10 years?
in terms of

adapting to the market....
eg- have words changed? words that worked 5 years ago act poorly in todays copywriting age?
how has structure of sales letters changed compared to 10 years back?
Have you as a copywriter noticed a big change in the style of copywriting?
how have you adapted to these changes? (i assume just learning new styles of writing + learning from others) ?

This above question e) Is Not based on a copywriters fees, conversion or a copywriter skills.....but a 'change in the market' and style of a copywriters writing- SO i am providing a 'different' style of questions which I thought you might appreciate

Thanks
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Domenic Carlson 13 years ago

Mine would be more of a stylistic question. I know that when I am writing it comes in bursts. I can write 3 landing pages in 20 minutes, then I go dry for two hours, then spit out two more in another half hour. I would like to know of they have any tricks for helping you remain focused and productive but without burning out on the material.
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- Collette 13 years ago
  
  Dominic - If by, "... any tricks for helping you remain focused and productive but without burning out on the material." you mean, "How can I keep working at that pace for a full 8 hours (or whatever your workday)?", the short answer is:
  
  "You can't."
  
  What you're describing sounds like a very typical creative cycle: bursts of intensity, followed by a period of 'recharging the batteries'.
  
  One way to deal with it is, if you feel as though you're unproductive during the 'recharging' phase, schedule your day with a mix of creative and non-creative work.
  
  For example, you work for half an hour on landing page copy, then you spend your re-charging time doing research, then you come back to your landing page copy, then you edit some older copy, then you go back to the creative stuff, then you answer some forum posts, and so on.
  
  Frankly, I don't know any copywriters who are able to maintain full-bore creativity for an entire day, day after day, without burning out. Most of us work with the cycle, rather than fight the cycle.
  
  Hope this helps.
  
  [ 4 ] Thanks
  
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MikeHumphreys

13 years ago

Matt,

Some good questions but I need to alert you to a few things that can skew your opinion of any copywriter you ask them.

Originally Posted by Matt Morgan

Question a)
Eg- Can I would see some proof/ % of your conversions, and can you explain how you will show me these stats.

and would ask for their 4 best project and their conversions,

Most copywriters aren't given access by their clients to the conversion data, testing software, or sales stats. They can ask for the info but since most clients don't test, it ties your hands a bit or leaves you with client feedback like "I'm very happy with the copy"

Then there are client projects where you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Case in point, I had a 14 page direct mail piece I wrote that pulled over $100K in a week for my client but I can't show it anyone else or say much more than that b/c of signing a non-disclosure agreement.

Question b)

+ How many years has it been since you started out, untill you have started to teach other students copywriting? until you felt you were ready to be a teacher, how many years was it?

(If you don't teach students, Lets assume you would want to, then how many years do you feel you would be 'ready' to be a teacher, from the absolute start of your career.

I know a lot of great copywriters who don't teach copywriting. They don't have the time or inclination to teach, so they don't do it.

Any copywriter could teach copywriting to whatever their current skill level might be. IMHO, it takes a teacher developing their own million dollar caliber copywriting skills (as a copywriter) to be able to teach up to million dollar caliber copywriting to others.

[COLOR=DarkRed]Question c)
To what extent would you agree/address on my following statement:

"The best copywriters aren't always the expensivest ones, and the best ones are certainly not the ones whom charge the biggest fees"

My statement based on a basic example: You can get a $4000 sales page done, and a $2500 sales page done by 2 different copywriters, and the $2500 one could convert better - if using and testing with a split testing software.

Depends on the niche, product, and amount of time available to spend on the project. It doesn't depend on the price tag of the copywriter. Higher priced copywriters typically take on less projects per month and can spend more time on each project, both before and after the product launches.

A copywriter's price tag is dictated by what the market will pay for that copywriters' skill level and the likelihood that they can deliver a profitable marketing piece.

Any copywriter could quote one million dollars to write a salesletter... but do they have the track record, client testimonials, and previous hits to justify that fee in the mind of their prospective client?

So forget price tags as much as possible.

You want a copywriter who understands your niche and your product almost as well as you do.

You want to give your copywriter sufficient time to do the research they need and create your marketing at their pace... otherwise, you increase the risk that they can't deliver a hit.

Anyways, I'll leave the rest of your questions for someone else... like Cherilyn

Take care,

Mike

Thanks

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heidijansen

13 years ago

It sounds like creative writing, article writing and copy writing is more or less the same thing? Am I correct or is there a difference? If so, could you point them out.
If I like to outsource my work, how would I know who is a serious good article/copy writer and who is fake? Can one tell?
I am so new to all of this and this is actually my first post on a forum except for forums I placed regarding my offline business.
Thank you for the opportunity.

Thanks
1 reply

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Matt Morgan

13 years ago

Originally Posted by heidijansen

It sounds like creative writing, article writing and copy writing is more or less the same thing? Am I correct or is there a difference? If so, could you point them out.
If I like to outsource my work, how would I know who is a serious good article/copy writer and who is fake? Can one tell?
I am so new to all of this and this is actually my first post on a forum except for forums I placed regarding my offline business.
Thank you for the opportunity.

There is a difference between article writing and copywriting.

I think this is a great question and should be added to the blog, as im sure she has a great answer for it!

Thanks

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Cherilyn Woodhouse

13 years ago

Some more great questions here! I'll add them to the list

Thanks

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ahew

13 years ago

Hi,

I'm new around here, but seem to struggle with copy and article writing. My main problem common to both is incorporating my profitable keywords into my copy/article without sounding too salesy. Do you just write first and then inject the keyword phrase and LSI keyword phrases afterward? Or do you have another technique? Any tips on how to not sound salesy even without the keywords?

Thanks,
Adrienne

Thanks

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Bruce Wedding

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Cherilyn Woodhouse

... what would it be?

Why are you writing copy for others instead of writing it for yourself?

Thanks
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Monika Mundell

13 years ago

Thank you Cherilyn for starting this thread, some great information has already been shared.

I'm curious to know how the more experienced copywriters here built their income stream?
We all start somewhere, right? Some new copywriters charge a beginners price tag of $250, while others charge way more right off the bat because they are convinced they deserve the moola.

What prompted YOU to raise your prices?
When did you do it, and how did you get the confidence to do it?

Thanks
1 reply

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MikeHumphreys

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Monika Mundell

Thank you Cherilyn for starting this thread, some great information has already been shared.

I agree.

I'm curious to know how the more experienced copywriters here built their income stream?
We all start somewhere, right? Some new copywriters charge a beginners price tag of $250, while others charge way more right off the bat because they are convinced they deserve the moola.

How well can you sell your services? Do you have the confidence and ability to prove that your services are worth more than $250? If so, then you'll quote higher right from the get-go.

What prompted YOU to raise your prices?
When did you do it, and how did you get the confidence to do it?

Physically, I couldn't keep doing 10-12 projects per month so I bumped my rates up each month until I got to $1500 per online salesletter from scratch. As my rates went up, the volume I was asked to do decreased but my total income continued to climb.

From there, I gradually increased them each quarter or after each documentable client success story I created. Eventually I was in the respectable $4-6K range for most projects with the track record to justify it.

Hope that helps,

Mike

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Monika Mundell

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Physically, I couldn't keep doing 10-12 projects per month so I bumped my rates up each month until I got to $1500 per online salesletter from scratch. As my rates went up, the volume I was asked to do decreased but my total income continued to climb.

From there, I gradually increased them each quarter or after each documentable client success story I created. Eventually I was in the respectable $4-6K range for most projects with the track record to justify it.

Hope that helps,

Mike

Thanks Mike, it did help for sure.

Funny enough I've done exactly the same with my (normal) writing business, and it worked a treat. Sales page copywriting is still a small portion of my business. I want to make sure I can give my clients top quality for the price they pay since I'm still learning this genre, and will most likely continue to do so forever.

I guess I was curious to see how the more seasoned pros handle this aspect of their business.

Thanks

Thanks

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sethczerepak 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

Why are you writing copy for others instead of writing it for yourself?

LOL Amen to that brother!
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vivifoster

13 years ago

Question: how do you get quality clients? what are the precautions so that you won't end as a "sweatshop" writer?

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