Using Time Presuppositions - good or bad? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Calamaroo

What I mean by time presuppositions is that you write your copy in such a way that puts the prospect in a time when he has ALREADY bought what you're selling and already enjoying the benefits. Example:

"Instead of saying, "Once you read EBOOK you'll notice that the level of your self confidence will rise to an all time high."
You instead say, "After reading EBOOK you'll notice that the level of your self confidence is now at an all time high."

Instead of saying, "Your confidence will become..."
You instead say, "Your confidence is now..."

What are the risks involved in using time presuppositions. And if indeed they are useful how do you go about using them?

Future pace, future pace, future pace.

Google it.

At some point in the not too distant future, you'll look back on this post as being one of the most valuable and actionable posts you have ever read.

- Rick Duris

(PS: Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. [giggle.] )

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BrianMcLeod

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc Rodill

I took your advice and tried Googling: "Future Pace."

Either I'm really lazy or stupid, but I came up with nothing.

So I took you literally, and Googled: "Future pace future pace future pace."

Still, I came up short.

Marc,

Forgive the snark that this site implies,
it's just an easy way to link to google
searches!

Let me google that for you

B

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RickDuris

14 years ago

If somebody has it readily available, could someone post the headline for the near famous International Living headline?

It starts out like...

"You look out your window, past your gardener, who is busy pruning the lemon, cherry..."

It's a perfect example of future pacing.

- Rick Duris

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by RickDuris

If somebody has it readily available, could someone post the headline for the near famous International Living headline?

It starts out like...

"You look out your window, past your gardener, who is busy pruning the lemon, cherry..."

It's a perfect example of future pacing.

- Rick Duris

Use “Stravinsky?s Secret” to Supercharge Your Marketing Copy | The Total Package

You look out your window, past your gardener, who is busily pruning the lemon, cherry, and fig trees
...amidst the splendor of gardenias, hibiscus, and hollyhocks.
The sky is clear blue.
The sea is a deeper blue, sparkling with sunlight. A gentle breeze comes drifting in from the ocean, clean and refreshing, as your maid brings you
breakfast in bed.

For a moment, you think you have
died and gone to heaven. But this paradise is real. AND AFFORDABLE!

In fact, it costs only half as much to
live this dream lifestyle...as it would to stay in your own home!

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ArticlePrince

14 years ago

I could be horribly wrong here, but I keep it in the future tense. That way the reader builds a future fantasy in their head, and buys to fulfill it. All my sales letters are future tense (in that regard anyway), so... :-)

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Calamaroo

14 years ago

I got this passage from an NLP material on therapy. Can the general structure of this be useful for copywriting?

"What would it be like when you have made those changes now, in the future, as you look back and see what it was like to have had that problem....as you think about it NOW?"

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MouseandMice

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Calamaroo

I got this passage from an NLP material on therapy. Can the general structure of this be useful for copywriting?

"What would it be like when you have made those changes now, in the future, as you look back and see what it was like to have had that problem....as you think about it NOW?"

Maybe it is late (which it is), but that sentence is complete gibberish to me.

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marciayudkin

14 years ago

Instead of saying, "Your confidence will become..."
You instead say, "Your confidence is now..."

What are the risks involved in using time presuppositions. And if indeed they are useful how do you go about using them?

In a written sales letter, it takes a lot more skill to use the present tense understandably, in the way you've outlined, than the future tense.

You have to remember that people skim, and therefore the future tense may make more sense to skimmers.

Where you do use present tense for the future, you have to set it up in such a way that even skimmers are likely to get it. For example, if you have a series of bullet points written this way, it's relatively easy to make that work. It's harder in a series of regular paragraphs.

You can compare it to flashbacks in fiction writing. You have to know how to introduce and end the flashback properly for the reader to understand what happened when and whether they are now in the fictional present or past. But in sales letters it's even trickier to go into and out of the present (yet future) tense because of the skimming factor.

Marcia Yudkin

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Harlan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Calamaroo

I got this passage from an NLP material on therapy. Can the general structure of this be useful for copywriting?

"What would it be like when you have made those changes now, in the future, as you look back and see what it was like to have had that problem....as you think about it NOW?"

A lot of NLP patterns are useless for copy.

That's one of them.

This pattern works in hypnosis when the mind is forced to make sense of nonsense.

It won't work in copy at all.

If you try to manipulate people with NLP, it's gonna bite you in the can.

Peace.

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BrianMcLeod

14 years ago

People don't buy products - they buy experiences....

...specifically, imaginary future experiences of themselves
using the product and enjoying the benefits.

We don't buy books, we buy lazy afternoons in the
hammock reading them with a glass of iced tea.

We don't buy training courses, we buy profitable
businesses that are running on auto-pilot using
the knowledge we glean from the training.

We don't buy carpet cleaning, we buy our bitchy
mother in law commenting on how spotless the
carpet looks and how spotless the house is.

We don't buy braces, we buy straight teeth.

We don't buy life insurance, we buy our family
being able to survive without the breadwinner.

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jukeboxhero

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

People don't buy products - they buy experiences....

...specifically, imaginary future experiences of themselves
using the product and enjoying the benefits.

We don't buy books, we buy lazy afternoons in the
hammock reading them with a glass of iced tea.

We don't buy training courses, we buy profitable
businesses that are running on auto-pilot using
the knowledge we glean from the training.

We don't buy carpet cleaning, we buy our bitchy
mother in law commenting on how spotless the
carpet looks and how spotless the house is.

We don't buy braces, we buy straight teeth.

We don't buy life insurance, we buy our family
being able to survive without the breadwinner.

Good stuff man...

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David Raybould 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

We don't buy braces, we buy straight teeth.

Great phrase dude.

Stealing that for my SWS students
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dtendrich

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

People don't buy products - they buy experiences....

...specifically, imaginary future experiences of themselves
using the product and enjoying the benefits.

We don't buy books, we buy lazy afternoons in the
hammock reading them with a glass of iced tea.

We don't buy training courses, we buy profitable
businesses that are running on auto-pilot using
the knowledge we glean from the training.

We don't buy carpet cleaning, we buy our bitchy
mother in law commenting on how spotless the
carpet looks and how spotless the house is.

We don't buy braces, we buy straight teeth.

We don't buy life insurance, we buy our family
being able to survive without the breadwinner.

Hey,

I think we buy both. The deep-set emotional
reasons are there, but the surface reasons are there
too, and just as valid.

We buy a book, and we buy lazy afternoons in
the hammock. Cause I can't remember the last time I
heard someone say...

"Hey, I'm off to Borders to buy a lazy afternoon in the
hammock."

The product and its emotional benefit are intertwined.

With that said, about the OP's post...

I've seen great copywriters use both, so I don't think there's
a rule of thumb about it. But I generally like to paint a word
picture for the reader, and to really get them into it I've found
that talking about things in the present tense makes that much
easier.

I think it's easier to imagine... "The overhead sun paints the green leaves white."

Than... "The overhead sun will paint the green leaves white."

Just my take on it.

David

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Atlanta Copywriter, serving clients worldwide.

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BrianMcLeod

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dtendrich

I can't remember the last time I
heard someone say...

"Hey, I'm off to Borders to buy a lazy afternoon in the
hammock."

Hey, David.

Of course nobody would say that...

So let's switch gears to things people WOULD say...

"I'm off to Borders, I've got to get this research report done..."

Projected future experience of finishing a report with
the book they're going to find and buy...

"I'm off to Borders, the new Twilight book is out..."

Projected future experience of reading the hottest
new title in that everyone is talking about...

"I'm off to Borders, I feel like getting something new and
fun to read..."

Projected future experience of discovering a new book
then kicking back on the couch and reading it.

The product and its emotional benefit are intertwined.

Of course they are, but the buying process is almost
always driven by emotion - imagining the experience
of obtaining the benefits, then rationalized by logic.

Emotional Projection:

A) I NEED this to ______.
B) Once I have _____, I'll be able to _____.
C) If I don't get ______, then ______.

Logical rationalization:

A) It was on sale, couldn't pass up the deal.
B) This ____ is exactly what I've been looking for.
C) It came complete with ___, ____, and ______.

Brian

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dtendrich

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

Of course they are, but the buying process is almost always driven by emotion - imagining the experience
of obtaining the benefits, then rationalized by logic.

That's well said. And I agree with ya.

But the thing is not everyone realizes their decisions are rooted in emotion. So you have to acknowledge what people think they want, then ease them into what they really want. Otherwise you run the risk of losing them.

For example... Say a guy wants a bigger penis, and the real reason (and you and I know the real reasons because we're copywriters and it's our job to know) is so he can finally feel like a man. He can feel like he's a part of this idea called "being a man." He basically wants a sense of connection.

He could probably, actually, he could definitely get this feeling from other things. You don't need a 29 inch penis to feel like a "man" when you could chug a keg instead.

So... A headline that says "Finally be a man!" is vague and not gonna catch his attention. But if you said, "New invention lets you grow your penis 27 inches and finally feel like a man!" Now you've got his attention.

That's why people buy experiences and products. At least that's my take on it.

David

Edit: I just re-read the end of your post and I could be wrong but I think we're actually talking about the same thing in different terms.

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Copywriting Tips, internet marketing jargon, thoughts, and rants by me.

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BrianMcLeod 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Sell benefits instead of features?

What an amazing idea.

Psst, Ken...

Zip it up, your projection is showing.

Smooch.
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BrainCopy

14 years ago

trust me it's a good thing. I used to be a car salesman for two years, and the was the very first technique I learned. Looking back on it now it's a bit crazy.

Watch some of Frank Kern's sales videos. He sells his $2k programs the same way a car salesman does, presumption, demonstration, reciprocity, over coming objections...etc.

Putting all the pieces together and you got yourself a powerful piece of copy.

Best Regards,
Anthony

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GuerrillaIM

14 years ago

In sales using a pre-supposition when you have good report works well. Using pre-supposition on someone you do not have rapport with can turn the person off and make it harder to gain raport.

My opinion is only use strong pre-suppositions during closing or to hot lists where you know you have a good reputation.

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BrianMcLeod

14 years ago

Visualize This Picture In Your Mind...

It's 10:08 on Monday morning...

You open your eyes and lazily roll out of bed...

Stretching, you stroll down to your well-appointed home office
where you gaze out your window at the clear, bright blue sky...

Warm cup of fresh coffee in hand, with a touch of giddy anticipation
you sit down at your desk in your comfortable office chair to check
your email...

... another 14 members have just joined your membership site, overnight!

Suddenly a thought hits you...

You've just made more money while you slept than you used to make
slogging out three full days at work.

For a moment, you almost can't believe how far you've come in so little time.
But you have... and it was so much easier than you thought it would be.

In fact...

...it all started with a single membership site that you built in just one day...

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Omar Khafagy

14 years ago

David,

I believe a 27 inch penis might make him feel more like an elephant than a man.

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dtendrich 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Omar Khafagy

David,

I believe a 27 inch penis might make him feel more like an elephant than a man.

LOL. So true... But maybe that's what he wanted all along
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Copywriting Tips, internet marketing jargon, thoughts, and rants by me.

Atlanta Copywriter, serving clients worldwide.

Write your life.
David Tendrich
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Using Time Presuppositions - good or bad?

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