Idea: Remove "that" from your spell check dictionary

16 years ago

Funny you should mention it. I though I'd exorcized the 'that' demon from my writing years ago. But today I had to proof and edit a 9000 word chunk of writing I'm getting ready for delivery and I excised three wanton thats from the piece. I guess that’s not so bad as 10 years ago it there would probably have been more than 30 of those little cockroaches…

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Rezbi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter

Then every instance of "that" will be underlined and you will have to evaluate whether you want that "that" there.

(Did you see what I did there? Yeah, I'm clever like that.)

I'm trying this to see how it improves my writing.

Too many people also use 'that' where they should be using 'which' or even 'who'.

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robyna

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter

Then every instance of "that" will be underlined and you will have to evaluate whether you want that "that" there.

(Did you see what I did there? Yeah, I'm clever like that.)

I'm trying this to see how it improves my writing.

When I was in print writing ten or fifteen years ago, I did that very thing. I would go back over my writing and evaluate whether each "that" belonged in there. Usually it did not. It's become somewhat of a habit now to not use the dreaded "that" but I still find it in there from time to time.

It's amazing how much you can cringe over one word when one when you go back and proofread your own stuff.

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Ray Erdmann

16 years ago

Are you saying there is never a time to use "that" in a sentence, or are you saying the word 'that' is overly used and the majority of people should learn to use alternatives, such as the ones you pointed out in your first post? (who - which)

For instance, I was writing to a friend the other day and they were feeling somewhat down on themselves regarding their current financial situation and in looking back at what I said, I see I wrote the following..

"...It is during these very situations you are encountering now that you need to dig deep and take a serious look within yourself…" <blah, blah, blah>

Was the reference to 'that' used inappropriately?

Thanks,

Ray

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Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter

16 years ago

Not saying it should never be used, but used sparingly. By removing it from my spell-check dictionary every "that" is highlighted and I can put it on trial for its life.

Keep in mind I am a hack. There any many more edumacated and elegant writers here who don't need my feeble tricks.

Originally Posted by Ray Erdmann

Are you saying there is never a time to use "that" in a sentence, or are you saying the word 'that' is overly used and the majority of people should learn to use alternatives, such as the ones you pointed out in your first post? (who - which)

For instance, I was writing to a friend the other day and they were feeling somewhat down on themselves regarding their current financial situation and in looking back at what I said, I see I wrote the following..

"...It is during these very situations you are encountering now that you need to dig deep and take a serious look within yourself..." <blah, blah, blah>

Was the reference to 'that' used inappropriately?

Thanks,

Ray

Thanks
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Ray Erdmann 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter

Not saying it should never be used, but used sparingly.

Kevin - I thank you for clarifying the proper usage for the word "that", as I was beginning to wonder if it ever really needed to be used..

Ray
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FiverrGuru

16 years ago

sounds like a sound idea

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shaggard

16 years ago

hmmmm, I am always looking to improve my writing. Therefore, I am going to start checking for "that" (haha!) I had no idea it was such a pet peeve for some people

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Rezbi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by shaggard

hmmmm, I am always looking to improve my writing. Therefore, I am going to start checking for "that" (haha!) I had no idea it was such a pet peeve for some people

Even more so, it's best to go through the copy and cut out ANY words at all which look like they don't need to be there.

The less words you use the better, as long as you've got the message in.

Thanks

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shaggard

16 years ago

The less words you use the better, as long as you've got the message in.

You would not believe how much I repeat those exact words! I went back and looked at my articles that I am about to publish. Surprisingly enough, in the 4 articles I was about to publish there was only 1 that.

Personally, I dislike "There are" it almost always can be cut or changed.
Bad: There are three things you can do for heat stroke
Good: You can do three things for heat stroke

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Daniel Scott

16 years ago

Kev, IMHO you're far from a hack.

Shaggard... "That" isn't a pet peeve, per se...

But it's often used in past tense... when present tense (active writing) is more powerful.

-Dan

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Kay King

16 years ago

I try to be careful about the use of words like "that" - had a good laugh when a new client sent back the articles I wrote with "suggested changes" - and ALL of the suggestions consisted of adding the word "that"

everywhere it could possibly be used.

He now understands about "that" - and thanked me for the English lesson (it's his second language).

kay

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AnniePot

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I try to be careful about the use of words like "that" - had a good laugh when a new client sent back the articles I wrote with "suggested changes" - and ALL of the suggestions consisted of adding the word "that"

everywhere it could possibly be used.

He now understands about "that" - and thanked me for the English lesson (it's his second language).

kay

Hmmm... I think we may have shared this client. Exactly the same thing happened to me a couple of years ago

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Neil AM

15 years ago

That's a damn fine idea - thanks for the tip.

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marciayudkin

15 years ago

Even more so, it's best to go through the copy and cut out ANY words at all which look like they don't need to be there.

The less words you use the better, as long as you've got the message in.

That is exactly how I learned to write tight. I started off writing for magazines with rigid word counts for articles, and a few times experienced editors would go through a manuscript with me showing how a 2000-word article could be shortened to 1600 words without losing an ounce of meaning. What an educational experience seeing the specific phrases that got cut!

Then about ten years ago I started doing public radio commentaries which had to be no longer than three minutes, preferably 2.5 minutes. Every word had to do a job, and if it didn't, out it went. Again I had the privilege of going through a manuscript with an expert red pencil artist.

Now it's second nature to me, and whether it's sales copy or an article or my newsletter, I always rewrite as if there will be consequences for extra words (as there indeed are).

Marcia Yudkin

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Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by marciayudkin

That is exactly how I learned to write tight. I started off writing for magazines with rigid word counts for articles, and a few times experienced editors would go through a manuscript with me showing how a 2000-word article could be shortened to 1600 words without losing an ounce of meaning. What an educational experience seeing the specific phrases that got cut!

Then about ten years ago I started doing public radio commentaries which had to be no longer than three minutes, preferably 2.5 minutes. Every word had to do a job, and if it didn't, out it went. Again I had the privilege of going through a manuscript with an expert red pencil artist.

Now it's second nature to me, and whether it's sales copy or an article or my newsletter, I always rewrite as if there will be consequences for extra words (as there indeed are).

Marcia Yudkin

This is the same reason why I encourage my coaching students to
read at least one book on editing. This skill is very important to
copywriters in making every word count.

-Ray Edwards

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shaggard

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

Kev, IMHO you're far from a hack.

Shaggard... "That" isn't a pet peeve, per se...

But it's often used in past tense... when present tense (active writing) is more powerful.

-Dan

That is a good point :p Sometimes it is hard to keep writing active when you are doing informational like I always do. However, I do try my best to not use a passive voice and I can see how "that" would be the equivalent.

In today's writing for my client, I consciously focused on not using that. I want to thank everyone here for improving my writing.

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Zentech

16 years ago

That's crazy! It's odd that I never knew that that was that kind of a problem in that context. That is amazing. That I ever though that that was that acceptable is just that kind of mistake that I would make. And that's that.

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nelsonbiglar

16 years ago

What is wrong with THAT?

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shaggard 16 years ago

Originally Posted by nelsonbiglar

What is wrong with THAT?

"That" would be the whole point of the discussion
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Raydal 16 years ago

Originally Posted by nelsonbiglar

What is wrong with THAT?

The word makes your writing sound more academic/legal and less
conversational, which is what you are aiming for in your sales letter.

I'm especially suspicious of the word 'that' in a headline. 99% of the
times the headline could be more succinct without that word.

-Ray Edwards
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MillionDollarCopy

16 years ago

Great call, Kevin!

I'll take that advice...especially good when you're on a time restraint and can't "go back to it in a few days". It takes a lot of ambiguity and clutter out of the copy as well.

Now if only we could get people to stop using "everyday" and "every day" interchangeably. *sigh* I see it everywhere. It haunts my dreams..

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Nathan Alexander

16 years ago

I just wanted to say again, thanks for this advice. However, now I have less time on my hands going back and cleaning up all the junk in my writing.

But it is way better for it. It's a shock to find how much I used it.

By the way, does anyone have a quick way to do that? The best way I found was talked about here - How to remove a word from Word's main Spelling Dictionary

I don't know much about Word along those lines, but found it helpful on that page. Anyone know another way from within Word itself?

Thanks Kevin...

Thanks

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rayleighlord

15 years ago

Well I have really learned a lot in here. "That" is my another problem of mine which I try to change and lessen in my contents. I usually find "that" on some parts of my content that really don't belong there as well as mess up with it.

In my first years of writing, I seem to overlook such word, and now here I am, learning from it. Although sometimes I still got that "that" word on some of my contents, but at least now I try to proofread all my articles..

Thanks
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ThomasOMalley 15 years ago

I have only been deleting "that" from my copywriting in the last year or two. I am always on the hunt to delete that word from my copy.

Great reminder to continue excellent editing after I have let my copy sit for a few days.
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Viramara

15 years ago

yay, simple, unthinkable, and hit nail to the head! Reminds me when I was amateurish, just learned English

..."that" is soo overused. Better strip it from a writing copy

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jennydarke

15 years ago

Interesting idea. I've just re-read some work and had definitely overused that.

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amo992

15 years ago

Removing the overuse of 'that' and 'to be' verbs was a challenging experience.

Thanks

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eWebCats

15 years ago

I'm almost afraid to go check now with all t̶h̶a̶t̶ I've written.

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latman 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Tibbs

I'm almost afraid to go check now with all t̶h̶a̶t̶ I've written.

I second THAT.
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Idea: Remove "that" from your spell check dictionary

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