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good copy outside the 'make money'/IM niche?

by davemiz
61 replies
anyone have any links to really good copy *outside* of the 'make money'/IM niche?

Here's a good one... My friend Bedros has killer stuff that sells well;

100 New Clients - Learn the Number One Fitness Marketing Tactic

(he's got a killer squeeze page there) not an aff. link

Haven't found a lot of good stuff lately....
#copy #good #make #moneyim #niche
  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    yeah..... got any links?
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  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    There is an 'outside' the make money / IM niche?!?! And you're allowed to post about it here?! Maybe that can be made a sticky, because I don't think a lot of people have that memo.

    J. Peterman

    Drew Kaplan's DAK

    This R/C Helicopter Toy
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    • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
      Most of us work outside the IM niche.

      We just hang around here because the couches are comfy and the coffee's hot. But don't tell the administrators because they might kick us back out onto the street.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Axelrod
    Hey Dave,

    Ross Jeffries (of SpeedSeduction.com) had a legendary one for his home study course ten years ago. His new copy is ok, but his old sales letter was dynamite. I had to search for it, but here it is. The formatting is off because it's reproduced on someone else's site, but the content is great.

    Awesome headline, amazing story structure, and compelling call to action and guarantee. This guy was making millions with this.

    Warning: Sexual, explicit, (probably offensive) language in copy.

    Home Study Course

    Yeah, looks like a spammy link, but it's just the only reproduction of the sales letter I could find.

    --Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Glyn
      Originally Posted by Dan Axelrod View Post

      Hey Dave,

      Ross Jeffries (of SpeedSeduction.com) had a legendary one for his home study course ten years ago. His new copy is ok, but his old sales letter was dynamite. I had to search for it, but here it is. The formatting is off because it's reproduced on someone else's site, but the content is great.

      Awesome headline, amazing story structure, and compelling call to action and guarantee. This guy was making millions with this.

      Warning: Sexual, explicit, (probably offensive) language in copy.

      Home Study Course

      Yeah, looks like a spammy link, but it's just the only reproduction of the sales letter I could find.

      --Dan
      Thanks! I had been looking for this. I'm an affiliate for Speed Seduction and I'm finishing my first product in this market space and I had been looking for this for a while now.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    lol.... thanks dan.... dont even get me started on that guy....
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
    Hey Dave,

    You've probably seen these, but for the benefit of those who haven't:

    Bottom Line's Integrated Health Solutions - Jim Rutz

    Join Forecasts & Strategies - Gary Bencivenga

    The Muscle Building & Fat Loss Inner Circle - ? (I'm pretty sure I know who wrote it, but I don't want to wrongly attribute it)
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    Andrew Gould

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  • Profile picture of the author Greg Stack
    Dan,
    Thanks for the link. That is some awesome, almost classic material.
    "...you couldn't get laid in a woman's prison with a fistful of pardons" is worth the price of admission. (I hope that's not offensive to anyone.)

    The average consumer is bombarded with so many messages, it takes dynamite to break through, these days. Of course, the product and the audience dictate, as well, but we must stand out in the crowd (or mob, as it were.)
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    hey andrew..thanks for the links!

    Bottom Line's Integrated Health Solutions - Jim Rutz

    always good stuff.... a little bland for my taste tho

    Join Forecasts & Strategies - Gary Bencivenga

    definitely has a unique style.... sidebars, the colors etc.


    The Muscle Building & Fat Loss Inner Circle - ? (I'm pretty sure I know who wrote it, but I don't want to wrongly attribute it)

    not sure who wrote it, but him and vince do well in that niche.... i'm working on a lil jv with sean right now with our weight loss stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hank Rearden
      Jim Rutz is allowed to be as bland as he wants...

      Why? Cuz he sells a whole lot of product.

      - HR
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  • Profile picture of the author JoseArmando
    You can find dozens of good sales letters just by skimming clickbank marketplace. Products with high gravity usually convert well and thus have a good sales letter.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    haha... hank, very true.... i just dont think that style will fit for the markets I'm in...

    thanks. clickbank is a small microscopic piece.... theres a LOT more out there.

    i'm really looking for stuff that converts on cold/paid traffic... most of the IM stuff is garbage when it comes to that measuring stick because the traffic comes via ad swaps/endorsed mailings.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    I have to say it...

    FatBurningFurnace.com

    Vin wrote a monster of a piece with that... and it's selling like crazy.

    You see ads for it EVERYWHERE... so it's obviously converting cold traffic quite well.

    -Dan
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    yeah fbf is good, but Daniel, i've promoted other stuff in that market thats converted better for me. (go figure)

    did vin write the video script?

    The sales are coming via the video (i believe)... the whole site and offer is strong... he wrote some awesome copy for it.

    truthaboutabs is everywhere... but in my tests it converted like crap... doesn't mean its converting well. you'd assume it is, but never know.
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Text Your Wife Into Bed

    Is text your wife into bed spicy enough for ya Dave?

    The home page gets a 4% conversion from cold visitors.

    Should sign up for his email list because you get 3 texts
    to send to your wife or girlfriend.

    They work either way.

    Some A list copywriters had a hand in that bad boy!

    All the best,
    Ewen


    Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

    anyone have any links to really good copy *outside* of the 'make money'/IM niche?

    Here's a good one... My friend Bedros has killer stuff that sells well;

    100 New Clients - Learn the Number One Fitness Marketing Tactic

    (he's got a killer squeeze page there) not an aff. link

    Haven't found a lot of good stuff lately....
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    yeah, i know chris.... good writer also and the product seems to be doing well. (hope so, he's a good writer)

    the metrics you're giving are entirely accurate... to what source? jvs?

    jv's aren't a business... you can't scale jv's... thats what reese called a money maker.

    the only measurement that matters to me is on cold/paid traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Dave,

      Those numbers came from PPC is what he said on the call with Kevin Rodgers.

      He's thinking they will be damned good coming from JV partners then.

      All the best,
      Ewen

      PS Listen in to the call he did. Brian has given LINK above.

      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      yeah, chris is a good friend.... good writer also and the product seems to be doing well. (hope so, he's a good writer)

      the metrics you're giving are entirely accurate... to what source? jvs?

      the only measurement that matters to me is on cold/paid traffic.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Dave,

        Seen anything from Matt Fury in the grapple wrestling mags lately?

        All the best,
        Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    Cool link! Thanks for sharing this to us.
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    I offer CPA coaching and investment opportunities for those SERIOUSLY interested in making money directly or indirectly with affiliate marketing. PM me for details.


    Read More about CPA/Affiliate Marketing on my Blog
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    hey ewen.... 4% on cold ppc traffic? lol cmon bro.... that doesnt sound right.

    yeah, i always pickup black belt magazine... he's been in there for years... him and john alanis (selling dating stuff)... obviously must work. i know john and he does well with that model...

    they have the stuff really dialed in.

    we seem to be reading similar stuff. i'll post some good letters i've found... i've got a TON of bookmarks. lol

    haven't seen anything new from matt in there for a while though.....
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      hey ewen.... 4% on cold ppc traffic? lol cmon bro.... that doesnt sound right.
      I wouldn't discount it. PPC is still targeted traffic. If you target correctly... the right offer to the right audience, then 4% is doable.

      One of my products pulled a 8.3% conversion rate for almost a year on non-JV traffic... just PPC and a few sig file links. Eventually the salesletter fatigued out and other competitors appeared but my point is, 4% isn't unrealistic, especially in the short-term.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Hey Dave...If you are mates with him, get on the blower and squeeze the real deal out of him.

      Don't you say "testing will only tell"?

      Yeah I use to be on John Alanis list but got off his and Matts list years ago.

      Needed a break from reading all the emails...needed to get back to work.

      Sort of wondered what those guys were doing these days.

      All the best,
      Ewen


      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      hey ewen.... 4% on cold ppc traffic? lol cmon bro.... that doesnt sound right.

      yeah, i always pickup black belt magazine... he's been in there for years... him and john alanis (selling dating stuff)... obviously must work. i know john and he does well with that model...

      they have the stuff really dialed in.

      we seem to be reading similar stuff. i'll post some good letters i've found... i've got a TON of bookmarks. lol

      haven't seen anything new from matt in there for a while though.....
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post


      we seem to be reading similar stuff. i'll post some good letters i've found... i've got a TON of bookmarks. lol
      So let's see some of the good letters you've found.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Dave,

        Here are some direct mail pieces from the alternative health market.

        Carline Anglade-Cole

        All the best,
        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Haddad
          Hey guys,

          Saw that you were linking over to my site and figured I'd better pop in.

          First off, while TYWIB is converting really well, it's certainly not getting 4% conversion off cold traffic. The traffic I'm getting now is clickbank affiliate traffic that's converting between 2% and 6% depending on the quality of the affiliate, how much they send me, what they write in their promos etc.

          Now, that's damned good and I'm happy with it but it's not the same as 4% off cold. I haven't run PPC to this offer yet since I haven't gotten the proper warming funnel for that traffic set up yet. I expect it will do well, but I certainly don't want people to think that I'm throwing some crazy ass numbers out there on cold traffic.

          If you send me married guys (or guys in relationships) who are interested in sex stuff, I can convert it. If you just send me random **** . . not so much.

          Also, Garfinkel, Carlton and some other friends of mine looked at the sales vid for me, but like always I'm testing and tweaking all the time. The market knows better than any high fallutin copywriter.

          Later,

          c
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by Chris Haddad View Post

            First off, while TYWIB is converting really well, it's certainly not getting 4% conversion off cold traffic.
            c
            Thanks Chris for clearing this up.

            I need to make a public apology for misquoting you and causing any bad publicity.

            Hopefully the upside is that you got sales from this.

            All the best,
            Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    lol john is crazy with his list.... 2 emails a day. I've got no idea how he does it ... or how ppl stay on it. i know personally i couldn't.... too many emails.

    but it works for him...
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Eban Pagan for Double Your Dating was pretty much daily too.

      Got off that list too.

      Perry Marshall is big on segmenting lists.

      Recently he asked his list how often for emails...

      less more same.

      That will get a higher stick rate.

      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author Hank Rearden
        One of my products pulled a 8.3% conversion rate for almost a year on non-JV traffic... just PPC and a few sig file links. Eventually the salesletter fatigued out and other competitors appeared but my point is, 4% isn't unrealistic, especially in the short-term.
        No, no you didn't.

        If you did, you would be an extremely rich man. Same with a 4% initial conversion from cold traffic.

        I understand good copy - "shift the benefit to become most appealing to the reader"... but... That just isn't true. It's deceptive. And idk how so many internet copywriters get away with fudging their "cold traffic" metrics like this....

        - HR
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
          Originally Posted by Hank Rearden View Post

          No, no you didn't.

          If you did, you would be an extremely rich man. Same with a 4% initial conversion from cold traffic.

          I understand good copy - "shift the benefit to become most appealing to the reader"... but... That just isn't true. It's deceptive. And idk how so many internet copywriters get away with fudging their "cold traffic" metrics like this....

          - HR
          Care to share how you know what their metrics are, Hank?

          -Dan
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          Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by Hank Rearden View Post

          No, no you didn't.

          If you did, you would be an extremely rich man. Same with a 4% initial conversion from cold traffic.

          I understand good copy - "shift the benefit to become most appealing to the reader"... but... That just isn't true. It's deceptive. And idk how so many internet copywriters get away with fudging their "cold traffic" metrics like this....

          - HR
          Well, I did with my testing software Easy Multi Tracking which is one of my most ripped off salesletters.

          As for how much money I make or don't make... well, frankly it's nobody's business except my wife and my accountant.

          Back to my software product.

          The problem was (and still is), it's not a high-traffic searched term. Last time I looked, none of the keywords are more than a few hundred searches per month.

          So driving a lot of traffic was an issue. I was doing it without JV partners or affiliates. I was doing it without any outsourcing teams or services either.

          There was no squeeze page or autoresponder or free e-course either so there was no follow-up marketing in place. Just a straight one-time chance to make the sale.

          The 8.3% was on the initial low starting price point in 2007. If memory serves me right, it was around $47 or $57 then at version 1.0.

          More customers but more technical support questions, often for basic stuff like how to FTP which I still had to either handle myself or pay my tech support people to quickly field and solve.

          I gradually tripled the price and continued to make the same amount of money each month. Yes, the conversion rate dropped but I still had ZERO affiliate payouts.

          Just as important, I had about 2/3 less tech support tickets for minor issues for my team (and I) to deal with. So my product-related expenses dropped and became more profitable.

          My competition has increased significantly since then... by 10X at last count. A company called Google decided to enter the testing niche and offer a free tool that has become very popular among budget conscious online marketers.

          Having said that... My programmer is currently working on a new version of the software and when I relaunch... I will update the salesletter, setup a marketing funnel, and use JV partners & affiliates to get a strong traffic push and high conversion rate again.

          Hope that clears things up a bit.

          Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    ewen, ebens dyd stuff is good... just not sure on his model.... i think his email model is to just keep giving content, at some point they buy.... vs. other marketers who are trying to get conversions faster (to recoup ad spends)....

    Dan, hanks got a point though.

    if you're doing 4% on cold traffic - obviously profitable, and just increased your budget you'd be making BANK.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hank Rearden
      Here's my - probably terrible - math on a 4% conversion. With a - very
      reasonable - $10,000.00 budget:

      Say your 4% conversion is AFTER an opt-in... So you're qualifying the
      traffic for the 4% number. (I'm trying to take the most conservative
      route...)

      From cold traffic, a VERY WELL performing opt-in page will convert around
      30%. This is high-end stuff, which we're going to assume he's got. At
      $0.33 per click, that's $1.00 per email lead.

      Very reasonable.

      So for $1.00 per lead, you have 10,000 leads. And 10,000 people initially
      seeing your sales page.

      If 4% of those people buy - that's 400 sales.

      If it's a $37 product - You made $14,800.00 on the front end. Which
      means you made your investment back AND have a new customer AND
      even made $4,800.00 in day 1 profit.

      You can immediately take this to any kind of JV partnership you want...
      investors... etc. and make money on all of them.

      (If you had a 8.3% conversion, your numbers are looking more like 833 sales
      - $30,821.00 - your adspend back... PLUS a new customer... plus another
      $2 per dollar invested...)

      Let's say it's an EXTREMELY low priced product: $9.99. Here are the
      numbers for 4%:

      Your DAY ONE money is $3996. You might be like "Hah Hank! See? The
      **** is legit!"... but... You can EASILY double that money with an average
      converting upsell path. Which moves your DAY ONE money to $7992.

      That's not all - either. If you have ANY other products, you can bump that
      number to WELL over $10,000 simply through a 7 day post-purchase
      sequence hitting ONE additional product.

      (All my testing's shown a fairly consistent 30% take rate on a $37
      product...)

      Not to mention continuity... Even one payment would put you in the black
      in 14 days.

      So... You'd spend $1. On day one, you'd make around $0.79 of it back AND
      acquire a new customer. Then, on day 14, you're looking at a new
      customer AND your $1 back AND a few cents of profit.

      This is a sustainable multi-million dollar front-end product.

      (Throw 8.3% conversion in there... and... You're MORE than profitable,
      even on day one!)

      ... So... There are my numbers. Feel free to look at them, and see if they
      hold up.

      But it's THESE NUMBERS I have in my mind when I debate the validity of
      those conversion metrics.

      Hope that clears things up.

      - HR

      PS. And these numbers don't take into account ANY email followup,
      whatsoever.

      Add an auto-responder... and... You're pushing those day one -
      day fourteen numbers even HIGHER.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    bad ewen.... dude... you need to buy us all beers now!

    lol. j/k. :-)

    mike.... i had a few posted in here, but wasn't signed in and no idea what happened to them.

    My buddy craig cleamons is an amazing writer.... he wrote all the dyd stuff (he worked for eben).... he launched a new site.... its very racy though.

    2GirlsTeachSex.com Shawnas DVDs

    love his copy.

    i always like the rodale stuff they have in their mags.... no idea if it converts well or not... but stuff like this:

    The New Abs Diet

    The CoreSlider
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    • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      bad ewen.... dude... you need to buy us all beers now!

      lol. j/k. :-)

      mike.... i had a few posted in here, but wasn't signed in and no idea what happened to them.

      My buddy craig cleamons is an amazing writer.... he wrote all the dyd stuff (he worked for eben).... he launched a new site.... its very racy though.

      2GirlsTeachSex.com Shawnas DVDs

      love his copy.

      i always like the rodale stuff they have in their mags.... no idea if it converts well or not... but stuff like this:

      The New Abs Diet

      The CoreSlider
      That 2GirlsTeachSex.com copy is awesome. I have been on their list, studying the copy.

      Highly recommend everyone signs up for it.

      Best,

      Angel
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      • Profile picture of the author Zero
        Originally Posted by ARSuarez View Post

        That 2GirlsTeachSex.com copy is awesome. I have been on their list, studying the copy.

        Highly recommend everyone signs up for it.

        Best,

        Angel
        Oh yeah. I was on that list for a while..purely for educuational purposes of course
        Its a very good list, great marketing promotions. I even saw wht we know as the 4 day cash machine being used that Frank Kern teaches in his Mass Control. It was pretty kool seeing that in action.
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      • Profile picture of the author beks001
        Banned
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        • Profile picture of the author Zero
          Originally Posted by beks001 View Post

          Does 2girlsteachsex.com convert well? Anyone know? The sales copy is super long. I wish I could write like that!
          Yes. Its killing it, for the lack of a better term.
          You don't have to 'wish' to be able to write that good. You just need to take the first step to make it happen. It takes some hard work ( obviously) but it'll be very rewarding.

          I've been far too stop-start with my copywriting education, and i rgret that, which is why i'm putting a massive effort in 2012 into becoming much better at it this skill..
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  • Profile picture of the author tropics
    I am really grateful for the information shared in this post, would also be nice if there was a facebook group or something were all people working on health, personal developent and healing arts niches could converge and do jv. I dont have a huge following so I am not proactive enough to start one myself
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  • Profile picture of the author copycashvalve
    Definitely subbing this thread.




    Five star thread guys, ton of good reads.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    trey's hypnosis product (pretty sure its swiped from another letter though)

    Learn Hypnosis ? Covert Hypnosis Training Secrets

    mad respect to ken silver. Love this guy. This guy was teaching marketing online when I started back in 2000.

    Silver Lotto System : How To Win The Lottery 9 Out Of 10 Times

    He knows what works.

    love this:
    Dr. V's Brutal Beyond Belief

    carlton??

    interesting, its not THAT long.... none of their letters are. No idea what kinda conversion #'s they're doing, but i love the copy.

    seeing this a lot lately:
    How to Hack the Stock Market

    and this also:
    Bullish Bankers - Paid Members Area
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    • Profile picture of the author docsulo
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post


      mad respect to ken silver. Love this guy. This guy was teaching marketing online when I started back in 2000.

      Silver Lotto System : How To Win The Lottery 9 Out Of 10 Times

      He knows what works.
      Great thread and this is a great sales letter.

      Perfect product for a recession/depression. The thing that kills me is that MATHEMATICALLY you can't make a profit at the Lotto - period. Every dollar you spend is a loss. It's crazy that he can get away with this.

      I had several associates that owned phone rooms in the 1990's that sold buy-ins to lotto pools. This was a HUGE money-maker. Most got shut down and some went to jail. So when I saw the following I could only laugh at how things don't change...

      from Ken Silver Review - Legit or Scam?
      "But the one that really gets me is the Winners Circle. You are told it is a syndicate of 50 people, the investment amounts vary according to how long you are signing up for, but at minimum there is $15000 in the pot for a year, he claims 92-98% success rate and a payout to members occurs if the amount due to each member is $100 or more. He only contacts members when winnings are to be paid out."
      Anyway... I'm happy to put it in my swipe file. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zero
    ANyone got the sales copies John Carlton did in the martial arts niche? I had the page favourited on my old comp which died a few months back
    There were some pretty killer ones there.


    Here's one in the martial arts niche by Ben Settle for a product called Law Dog Tactics:
    Captain Chris' Law Dog
    I really love his bullets, i got a good laugh outta readin this one as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    yup and it converts!
    Signature

    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
    ― Dalai Lama XIV

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    • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      yup and it converts!
      I'm sure. I almost bought the damn thing.

      Best,

      Angel
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Dolman
    I've read this letter twice in the past few months. It was linked in 2 different emails, but the headline and deck copy hooked me both times.

    https://web-purchases.com/BAP/EBAPLB...=186161&r=Milo

    Go figure it's from Agora.
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  • Profile picture of the author redcell1
    Jason that sales letter was pulling me in. thanks for the share
    Signature

    Just here to see the shenanigans.

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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    docsulo.... ya ken's been around making money with that stuff FOREVER.... he was doing well back in the day... around 2001-2002 and is STILL killin it with that offer.

    go figure.

    angel... dan rose is a friend... i'll ask who did it.
    Signature

    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
    ― Dalai Lama XIV

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