Has Anybody Actually Read A Complete Salesletter?

29 replies
I know this is probably not the most delicate question in the copywriting forum, but I would pretty much say that of all the products I've bought from a sales letter I can't honestly say I've ever read the entire letter.

Like most people I suspect, I read the first part and scoot down to the bottom to see how much the product costs. If it's reasonable, I'll buy, If I think it's outrageous I'll press the back button.

Jeff Anderson of Product Launch Formula says, turn the sales letter sideways and feed a little bit to the subscriber a bit at a time, so come launch day, they just go to the link and scroll down to the buy button. That seems reasonable and justifys a lot of copy because its fed a piece at a time and builds anticipation and tension.

So, and this is an honest question. What is the rationale that professional copywriters use to write a sales letter that is twenty, thirty and sometimes even forty pages long?

Just wondering - I'm writing a letter now and really want to know if a short letter won't just sell as well as a long letter... And no, I can't accept the it depends answer.

Has anybody done any serious split testing of long copy vs short copy?
#long copy sales letters
  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    His name is Jeff Walker.

    There are TONS of threads covering this topic, though you might have to go to the old forum to find them: warriorforum.com/forum

    (But in short, yes it's been tested, yes long copy wins.)

    And yes, I've read hundreds of salesletters all the way through.
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  • Profile picture of the author Strategizer
    I've often wondered this myself. A voracious SE demand for content? I don't know. But I'll tell you - this is why the headers are so important. Often I scroll down and read only the h1 header and all those h3's, ignoring everything else...
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    • Profile picture of the author JMartin
      Yes, I've read many long sales letters. But, I grew up with direct mail and went into it, so perhaps that's why.

      As for what works and what doesn't, I've done my own testing and it depends. There's no one answer. Sometimes shorter is better and sometimes not.

      - Jason
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      • Profile picture of the author SpeedDemon
        I don't usually read most of the sales letter until I've already decided I'm interested in the product. Then I'll read every word of it unless there's a demo of the product for me to try out. By that time, though, I'm more looking for any reasons not to buy it than to be sold on the product.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Raybould
          Hey guys,

          Yes I read long sales letters. Sometimes if I'm not quite sold I may even read it a couple of times, if there's still something attracting me to it.

          But yes, Kyle's right, long copy wins. That's why good copywriters are expensive, and justifiably so.

          David
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          • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
            [sigh]

            Everytime this tired old topic pops up I feel like I'm being punk'd. I may be the only one but I feel this old gem throws a tiny tinge of disrespect towards the forum and towards copywriters specifically each time it comes up.

            Why?

            Because taking a brief moment to search for the topic would yield so many great answers. Sure as of this month that search would have to be on the old board, but still... come on. Does anyone think their "angle" on asking the question is brand new? Never been asked before? Or were all those hundred other times this has been answered just not to your satisfaction?

            Come on already.

            Like I said... just a tad bit disrespectful IMO.

            So... I won't go into the whole laying out the facts thing. Let me just put it simply...

            Yeah... yeah... yeah... we know. 92%-98% of people won't read it. Here's the good news. The other 2%-8% are all we give a damn about.

            The vast majority are never going to buy no matter if you have 40 pages... or 1 page.

            (To those here that know me. I promise I will never answer this question again.)
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            • Profile picture of the author Jason Mathews
              "But in short, yes it's been tested, yes long copy wins."

              So why don't products which are aimed at the mainstream contain a long sales letter? Why don't the adverts which come through the post look like little magazines you can read?

              Maybe a long sales letter is better for the search engines? You have a better chance of optimising it to rank higher?

              "Most people wont buy the product" So then why would you risk putting off the lazy guys who simply want to know what it does for them in the shortest time possible and then they can make their own mind up?

              A long sales letter seems to work, maybe that is why people use it still. I would suggest you test it for yourself. You could start with your life story in one, in the other keep it as clear, short and concise as possible and see which wins?
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              • Profile picture of the author Collette
                Originally Posted by Jason Mathews View Post

                "But in short, yes it's been tested, yes long copy wins."

                So why don't products which are aimed at the mainstream contain a long sales letter? Why don't the adverts which come through the post look like little magazines you can read?...

                A long sales letter seems to work, maybe that is why people use it still. I would suggest you test it for yourself. You could start with your life story in one, in the other keep it as clear, short and concise as possible and see which wins?
                As with so much else in life, the answer to this question is... "It depends."

                Depends on your product, your price, your reader, and your marketing objective.

                These are basic marketing questions you need to answer before writing the first word. And your answers will determine the length of your copy.

                For some stuff, the best copy (i.e. the copy that gets the reader to take the action you want him to take) will be short. For other stuff, the best copy will be long.

                Bottom line: your copy should be as long as it needs to be to get the job done.

                Moreover, every line and every word in your copy neds to drive the prospect closer to your objective. You can accomplish your oblective in one word (see: Volkswagen's classic ad "Lemon") or you may need an entire 16-page magalog (see: just about anything marketed by Bottom Line) or hour-long infomercial.

                Size isn't always the only thing. Ya need whatever works.
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              • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
                Originally Posted by Jason Mathews View Post

                So why don't products which are aimed at the mainstream contain a long sales letter? Why don't the adverts which come through the post look like little magazines you can read?

                Many of them do. I get some really long salesletters in the mail.

                And infomercials (30-min TV ads) are targeted at the mainstream.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Raybould
              Hey Vin,

              I was wondering if you would chime in and answer this one. I think I can still remember your replies from the last 2 or 3 times it was asked lol.

              Maybe we could make a permanent answer to this question and ask Allen to sticky it lol.

              David
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              • Profile picture of the author Raydal
                I've not only read but studied many sales letters. But my motive as as copywriter
                is different--to learn what I could form them. This question addresses the
                consumer so I would answer as a consumer.

                The other day I was shopping online for a product for my wife and read many pages
                before I making a choice. I couldn't get enough information so that I would make
                an informed decision.

                So with the correct motivation ANYONE would read 20-50-100 pages. If you are
                not interested in the product then (as Vin said) who cares if you read it or not?

                -Ray L.,
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            • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
              Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

              [sigh]
              (To those here that know me. I promise I will never answer this question again.)
              Like a duck on a Junebug, Vin. It's a reflex action with you, isn't it?

              LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
    Originally Posted by paulmcp View Post

    I know this is probably not the most delicate question in the copywriting forum, but I would pretty much say that of all the products I've bought from a sales letter I can't honestly say I've ever read the entire letter.
    I agree with Vin but beyond disrespect I see your post more as sheer ignorance.

    And it actually sounds like you're a little lazy. You've never read an entire sales letter for something you BOUGHT? Something that you were actually interested in?

    hmmmm...

    Do you read books in their entirety? Ever?

    Originally Posted by paulmcp View Post


    Like most people I suspect, I read the first part and scoot down to the bottom to see how much the product costs. If it's reasonable, I'll buy, If I think it's outrageous I'll press the back button.
    No, actually that's NOT like most people. Most people are not driven primarily by price.

    Originally Posted by paulmcp View Post


    So, and this is an honest question. What is the rationale that professional copywriters use to write a sales letter that is twenty, thirty and sometimes even forty pages long?
    Testing. Numbers. Math. Results.

    Originally Posted by paulmcp View Post


    Has anybody done any serious split testing of long copy vs short copy?
    Yes, of course. In most cases "the more you tell, the more you sell" but that doesn't mean you should add more copy just to add more copy. It means that when you genuinely have more benefit rich copy about your product or service it make no sense to exclude it just to try to stay within a certain number of pages.

    If you told your story, shared your message in it's entirety then the number of pages should be irrelevant.

    But by all means you should test this yourself (and share the results here)
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  • Profile picture of the author Britt Malka
    Yes.

    Once.

    It was for the Lazy Marketer.
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    • Profile picture of the author RevenueGal
      I've actually only read a couple all the way through. I usually skim through most of the info and read the headlines and subheadlines....and then if I'm interested, I go back skim through some smaller details that seem to stand out.

      Definitely higher priced items take more convincing for me...so longer sales pages with plenty of information helps. You have to convince me that you have something unique and useful.
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      • Profile picture of the author vinnylingo
        To the OP, did you really expect anyone to say no? Part of the problem is that you're asking other marketers. If you're selling to this crowd, the input matters. But you might want to remember that not only are you not your market, neither are your fellow marketers (again, unless you're selling to us).

        Poll your customers. Ask them if they read the entire sales letter. Did they decide to purchase before they finished reading it? Did they continue reading or jump down to the purchase button? Etc.

        Originally Posted by RevenueGal View Post

        I've actually only read a couple all the way through. I usually skim through most of the info and read the headlines and subheadlines....and then if I'm interested, I go back skim through some smaller details that seem to stand out.

        Definitely higher priced items take more convincing for me...so longer sales pages with plenty of information helps. You have to convince me that you have something unique and useful.
        Bullets were built for readers like you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
          Originally Posted by vinnylingo View Post

          Poll your customers. Ask them if they read the entire sales letter. Did they decide to purchase before they finished reading it? Did they continue reading or jump down to the purchase button? Etc.
          This has also been mentioned before in many other threads, but I feel I should mention it here so people don't get the wrong idea...

          Ask anyone (other than a copywriter) if they read salesletters at all and virtually NO ONE will say yes. Yet BILLIONS of dollars are sold via long copy salesletters, so someone sure is reading them.

          What your customers say and what they do are very different things.

          Even if they do tell you they only read part of it, it's going to be a different part that sold each person -- so you can't just go chopping parts of your sales presentation.

          It's often been said that a sale is made from ONE bullet. Now, if you've got 100 bullets on your page then you might have 100 different customers that were each convinced by a different bullet. Which one should you chop? NONE!

          So why don't products which are aimed at the mainstream contain a long sales letter?
          That's the wrong question to be asking, at least for the result you want to get. First you should ask what the ROI of these "mainstream" advertising methods is (if there is indeed any accurate way to figure this out). Then compare them to direct marketing and the precise testing and tracking you can do.

          Why don't the adverts which come through the post look like little magazines you can read?
          Actually, many of the good ones do! The magalog (essentially a salesletter formatted to look like a magazine) is one of the most profitable direct mail formats today. Get on the list of any good direct response company and you'll get plenty of them sent to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author trafficwave
    As a consumer: NEVER

    But here's the kicker: It doesn't matter because as a copy writer, I've proven to my self that long copy always outsells short copy.

    I don't actually care why. I realize that's not a sophisticated response but I learned something a long time ago: "If it ain't broke; don't fix it!"

    My theory is this:

    The headline does most of the selling.

    The copy is simply reinforcing the headline.

    The copy is something the reader scans to reinforce that first emotional impulse to buy.

    The copy provides some of the "logic" while reinforcing the "emotion" that is being triggered.

    So long copy (if well written) constantly reinforces and expands upon what the headline has already sold the reader on.

    If the headline is bad, the length of copy is irrelevant.

    (Just my 2 cents).
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  • Profile picture of the author lindajess
    Originally Posted by paulmcp View Post

    I know this is probably not the most delicate question in the copywriting forum, but I would pretty much say that of all the products I've bought from a sales letter I can't honestly say I've ever read the entire letter.

    Like most people I suspect, I read the first part and scoot down to the bottom to see how much the product costs. If it's reasonable, I'll buy, If I think it's outrageous I'll press the back button.

    Jeff Anderson of Product Launch Formula says, turn the sales letter sideways and feed a little bit to the subscriber a bit at a time, so come launch day, they just go to the link and scroll down to the buy button. That seems reasonable and justifys a lot of copy because its fed a piece at a time and builds anticipation and tension.

    So, and this is an honest question. What is the rationale that professional copywriters use to write a sales letter that is twenty, thirty and sometimes even forty pages long?

    Just wondering - I'm writing a letter now and really want to know if a short letter won't just sell as well as a long letter... And no, I can't accept the it depends answer.

    Has anybody done any serious split testing of long copy vs short copy?
    Hmmm...this is a great question. I think that I have actually read a couple, but not many. Personally, I think that the longer the sales page the better the site. Granted, most people who are going on to find something only read the first maybe 2 paragraphs, find out what the bullet points are and skip down to the bottom to find out how much it is.

    However, there are some, like me, who will actually read the entire page before buying. If they are really interrested in what you have to say, they may read the entire thing before buying. I like to read the sales letters first because it gives me a chance to see what other people's opinions of the things they are selling is through testimonials. And the better the sales page, the longer these people have to spend with you trying to help you.
    That's just my opinion...
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      If I'm about to market a new affiliate product, then, yes. I will read the entire sales letter to make sure it's solid.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Rogers
        "I think anyone who asks this question is a moron" - Gary Halbert
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        • Profile picture of the author Anthony J Namata
          I've read entire sales letters. But you've got to grab me from the very first paragraph or else you've lost me. Typos and bad grammar, for instance, do my head in.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason Fladlien
            Here's the problem: most people who have asked this question have never read really good copy before... they're used to b-level copy that you often see in the internet marketing arena.

            Try to stop reading a Eugene Schwartz ad, if it's something you're interested in. It's practically impossible! Same thing with some of Halbert and Carlton's stuff.

            I've read hundreds of sales letters word for word... because some of them are engrossing, that it's like reading a good book. And it's even better if it's for a product I'm already interested in.

            Anyway, I know an ad I can write that I could get you to read every word of

            "All about [Insert Your Name Here]'s sex life..."
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            • Profile picture of the author Chipt
              A few thoughts for your consideration based on popular opinion, testing, message-to-market match, etc.

              1. There's no such thing as copy that is too long... only copy that is too boring

              2. Copy only needs to be as long as necessary to get the reader to complete the call to action, whatever that might be

              3. Sales letters can tend to correlate number of words to selling price... a salesletter to sell a $17 ebook vs. a $5,000 seminar need not be the same length

              4. Most wise writers I know take people on a journey with their sub-heads used throughout the letter [many of us are 'scanners']

              5. When considering different markets, niches, products, and traffic sources, all segments respond differently and convert at different ratios and ROIs, so any smart writer has the attitude of "I have no idea. I only trust the numbers."

              Just food for thought -

              Chip Tarver

              PS - Personally I find most salesletters to be a cacophany of incessant nonsense, BS, and hype, and I'd rather get a rabies shot than read it all [and yes, that includes some 'A-list' copywriters]. No offense meant though... I just can't take the punishment of reading the entirety of all of most salesletters I see...
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              • Profile picture of the author Kuzya3k
                Same thing with me - I skim through the copy to see if I like it - THEN if I want to read it I will. Honestly you have to give them alot of bullshit to read. The point of the sales article is to build trust, build emotions, and build the belief that they need this product, or will get something great out of the product. They want to know whether the product is good or not. SO. That being said. Long copies FTW.

                p.s. - if a copy is 100 pages long I'm not reading it -_-

                off topic:
                also britt malka - I would have bought your product if you could PROVE IT. Come on - that page would be hot if I saw my name on it - oh well...all I did today was duck a scam.
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  • Profile picture of the author TajwarAlexander
    I read them all the way....even before I was aware that what I was reading was intended to be sales copy.
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    • Profile picture of the author lcube
      I will often skim right down to the price. Then I will go back and read the copy to see if it what I am reading is worth the price I am going to pay. I have read dozens of these long letters. But, I have also skimmed over alot of them and let it kind of brew in the back of my brain. If I decide I want to know more, then I will go back and read the entire sales page.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stephen Bray
        Originally Posted by lcube View Post

        I will often skim right down to the price. Then I will go back and read the copy to see if it what I am reading is worth the price I am going to pay. I have read dozens of these long letters. But, I have also skimmed over alot of them and let it kind of brew in the back of my brain. If I decide I want to know more, then I will go back and read the entire sales page.
        Good point!

        I too skim and then look back
        to read in detail to the main
        points of interest.


        Try doing that with a long
        sales video though!

        You can't can you?

        That's why I believe there
        will be a renaissance in DM
        sales copy.

        People who have 50 minutes
        a day to watch videos promoting
        $1997 dollar products probably
        can't afford them anyway.

        Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    Here are my thoughts which I posted in the old copywriting board when this subject came up for discussion:

    [On Long Form Sales Copy vs. Short Sales Copy]

    I love it when this subject comes up in conversation.

    Basically the people who only say they hate sales letters,
    still continue to buy from them.

    Here's why:

    The more interested someone is in an offer,
    the more information they want (and require)
    so they can make an informed
    buying decision before they decide to purchase from you.

    The rationale is: If someone is truly interested in what's on offer,
    they may purchase despite any pre-conceived bias against long form copy
    if it's a good fit for them at that time.

    However, here's the real risk and imminent dangers of not having all the information there and covering all the bases, anticipating and resolving all the objections,

    Presenting all the benefits (here's what this product will do for you, what it means to you once you get it), demonstrating credibility, expertise (ie., why should I listen to you?), proving your case, showing why your offer is uniquely qualified to deliver those benefits in the way it delivers it unlike any other claim on the market, etc.

    (In a Nutshell--> All the important concerns which need to be addressed before the bond of trust is built communicating you understand the current pressing problems, darkest fears, antsy anxieties keeping you awake, angry resentments, dead end frustrations, deepest desires and urgent needs of the buyer and why you are uniquely qualified to deliver the solution in the way that benefits them most)

    If you do not cover all these in your sales letter...

    -You end up with at least these:

    "7 Dangers You Risk Not Using Your Long Form Sales Letter for More Sales"

    *1. "Unresolved concerns"- The last time I bought a product similar to this on offer, this happened or someone said this about this kind of product, is it true with yours?

    *2. "Unanswered questions"- When I get this product and then use it in this way, will I be able to do x, y and z?

    *3. "Unresolved objections"- I see the offer, but you don't understand. The reason it won't work for me is because, "objection 1, objection 2, objection 3

    *4. "Uncertain about your credibility"- How do I know this person or company possesses the necessary adequate understanding of my personal needs to fulfill them with this product? Who else have they helped and what were the results?

    *5. "Unformed bond of trust"- Will this company's product or service on offer really work for me in the way I need it to perform?

    *6. "Fatal Assumptions"- Your buyer may take for granted you're delivering something you had no idea they'd be assuming they'd receive
    and it could come back to bite you. Without using long form copy to present
    your offers, you're leaving yourself wide open for these types of dangerous and sometimes fatal assumptions making it difficult to ever make a marketplace comeback once you've done it once.

    *7. "Unfulfilled Expectations"- Not unlike those fatal assumptions, your customers may have expectations that your product should fulfill in delivering the benefits they're expecting.

    Failure to accurately and fully explain exactly what they can expect to receive and encounter after taking ownership of your product or service
    could prove disastrous for you once
    word gets around your product or service doesn't even __________!

    Without using a long form sales letter your clients and customers are just left in the dark not truly having a full grasp of exactly what's on offer and what they can expect to enjoy once they do business with you.

    You simply just can't afford to make that mistake in business!

    And that's just for starters:

    If you read an offer and all that's there is
    just the pre-head, headline, opening paragraph, short video, story, problem, solution, a few bullet points of benefits, offer, some testimonials, a guarantee, the close, price and a picture of what it is,

    There are so many more questions
    either conscious or left unsettled under the surface

    Which absolutely must be answered before you feel safe turning over your hard earned cash without a guarantee it's just what you need and that it will work for you.

    Guess what?

    "Your Buyers Feel the Exact Same Way!"

    Your clients go through the same emotional and logical processes
    when presented with offers before making purchasing decisions as you do.

    Call it human nature...

    *We don't want to run the risk of looking foolish for making a poor purchasing decision (uninformed or ill informed purchasing decision)

    *We don't want to purchase a product or service now only to find out
    we made a mistake later

    *We don't want to be embarrassed later when we see an offer
    available for a better deal providing more value elsewhere

    *We don't want to buy something no one else is buying

    And many more psychological and emotional factors
    weigh in before we pull the trigger on the purchase!

    Now granted, the same person having these concerns, may
    respond to surveys saying they hate long form sales letters
    and would never buy from them and would never admit
    they need all the facts before they purchase.

    So...

    5 More Compelling Reasons Why Your Long Form Sales Letter Sells More For You!

    *1. "The More you tell, the more you sell."-
    (If people need all the information necessary before making a purchase, does giving them the facts they need before they buy in your salesletter decrease or increase purchases?
    It's not a trick question, although you can call it rhetorical.)

    *2. "Your salesletter can't be too long, it can only be too boring.
    (People who are interested will keep reading provided you don't
    lose them with boring sales copy." This is what takes mastery!)

    *3. People need all their questions answered and need to know you
    are qualified to deliver what they want from your offer before deciding
    to trust you enough to send you their money.

    *4. If you don't give them plenty of reasons to buy your product,
    they'll come up with plenty of their own reasons not to instead!

    (Your long form sales letter anticipates those and resolves those objections into reasons you benefit more from buying than not!)

    *5. People need to know how using your product or service will benefit
    them and have you prove you know what their needs are so they can
    feel comfortable emotionally and justified logically for making the purchase.

    (Your longform salesletter delivers both of these for you!)

    What Do We Learn From These Buying Behaviors?

    So from this we learn: Spoken and admitted buying preferences don't necessarily always match true buying behavior. And many times are (more often than not) actually opposed to one another.

    What they say and what they do are two different animals.

    But when you know this is what your prospective customers and clients need from you,

    You are empowered to deliver your offers to them in the way they need you to help them make the informed buying decision they must make before the purchase.

    *So you're best serving your market by presenting your offer to them
    using long form copy,
    whether they'll all ever know it, admit it or not!

    Athletes and Fighters know keeping your eye on someone's center of gravity will telegraph their next movement, gives you the edge and
    "head's up" you need to anticipate the next movements.

    The experienced coach will tell you:

    Even when other parts of the body look like they are headed in a different or even opposite direction,

    Keeping a close eye on someone's center of gravity will
    tell the true story.

    The center of gravity moves, the whole body moves.

    Keeping a watch over the buying behaviors of your market will give you
    the insight you need to anticipate what shifts in the market can mean for your bottom line.

    When the market's money continues to move to those who continue to use long form sales letters to close the deal for their promotions,
    what form of copy do you want to use for your offers?

    The form a segment of people only "say" they like but don't purchase from
    or the form they say they hate but actually buy from more?

    [Editor's Note: Using Long Form Sales Copy in Video Sales Letters is Still Using Long Form Sales Copy, just a different medium...that's why most of the videos are 20 minutes!]

    Happy selling!
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