If a women's hot she already has an unfair advantage lol

Well us hot blooded guys want to know did you get your wish in the bedroom?

Or are you just toying with us guys?

Ewen

Is it the law of attraction at work?I was just thinking about the fact that there are very few female copywriters...happened on your post.Interesting question.I gotta think (have to complicate the issue first,seeing as I am a guy).Interesting.

Michael Newman

"Why do women intuitively understand emotion better than their male counterparts?"

Well, you wouldn't find a man too attractive if he was crying over a soap, now would you?

Let's call that the Yin-Yang principle before this turns into a big ass discussion lol.

I've written for a few different focuses in the dating/pick up niche. Also with the real player stuff. Not PUA. That stuff gives me the creeps. Anyway...

Give some more details because the question is a bit too broad.

At the moment you might want to consider...

- Facing rejection
- Jealousy from another guy getting their girl
- Getting cheated on... then wanting revenge and showing them how
- Think about what type of guys would come to the internet looking for "secret" tips on how to pick up chicks?

I need a cold shower

Jack

I hate to burst your bubble Sally , but all Human Beings are simple creature - from
a persuasion point of view.

Regarding the sex thing, well that's just biology baby - plain and simple.

Are not millions of "complex" women manipulated every year by the cosmetics
and weight loss industries.

To the tune of BILLIONS?

Who do you think writes most of those ads? Women?

but what do I know,

Eric

Cocky, aren't we?

1. If you were a fly on the wall with conversations I have with marketers, you'd know I encourage them to "show a little leg." In other words, share a bit of what they know.

The strategy is not reserved for women.

2. Be clear, the whole world didn't just see him--they saw you too. Just like we all are seeing you now. This is exactly why daughters are encouraged by Mothers to protect their reputation, because it's so easy to unintentionally cross the line.

I'd be ultra-careful with a thread like this.

Sally, your slip is showing. (Pun intended. )

- Rick Duris

So are women. But explaining why and giving examples would be small-minded, offensive, and sexist.

Haha... nice bit of provocative copy there

Of course, I don't necessarily subscribe to your premises, but now we're getting all primal, here's the way I ultimately see it...

Men want sex. But they also want the chase, the victory, the conquest, the risk, the bragging rights to their friends, etc etc.

Women want sex, too. But they also want security, safety, connection, feelings, approval, yadda yadda.

Men chase, women are chased. Far fewer are chaste

Sure, that's stereotypical. But we only have to step into the real world to see that's closer to the truth than not.

Men and women are not the same.

I think nature gave women a better intuitive understanding of emotion, because women produce offspring directly, men just provide the seed. To raise a child takes a lot of sensitivity and emotion. To provide seed requires... well, to show up

But then, good copywriting is a combination of THREE essential elements:

(a) emotion, (b) logic, (c) imagination.

A good copywriter should know how to employ all three, whether male or female.

And yes, you "hooked" me into this thread. Based on the replies, you definitely know how to tap into (a), and you got a dash of (c) from me as I imagined the scenario.

Genius.

Was just about to say what Vin said. Sounds like a guy writing his fantasy and sending it to a listserv.

Cheers,
Stephen

Reminiscent of those 13-year-old kids who pretend to be "hot tweenz" on gaming forums.

That aside... I have seen the "I'm a hot chick who loves sex" thing work quite well in the seduction and dating niches.

Basically the hook is "once you know these insider secrets, hot women like me will throw themselves at you and want you to do them right on the bar".

It's written a little more subtly, but that's the essential take-away.

-Dan

Some of you guys here are very strange.

If you really must know, I have 6 brothers and fancy myself as a bit of a tomboy, always have.

I'm also a lesbian (bisexual), do you have problems with this too? :rolleyes:

Sally if it took you as much as 5 seconds you're probably doing something wrong

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Interesting thread. It appears its sole purpose was to sneer at a stereotype of men as being horny *******s, while simultaneously providing ample opportunity for the OP to beat her own chest (which would, in turn, result in a ripple of wonderful, irrelevantly bisexual cleavage) and proclaim: "I'm a liberated woman! A sleek, feminine creature, emotionally aware and intelligent. You puny males with your brain-penises are no match for my sensitive estrogen-charged wiles."

'Cept, here's the thing... your story shows no salesmanship. I don't mean it failed to sell me. I mean that within the story itself, you didn't sell.

You went up to a guy whose Johnson was getting tired of Mr. Left Hand. He didn't even need to try to flirt with you. He didn't need to hit on you at all. He just waited around. You went to him.

Here's how his story probably went to the other guys, the next day:

"Yo guys, check this out. So remember how we were fishing the other day? Remember the chick that kept looking at us? No, not the blonde. God, she was fugly. I mean the brunette. Yeahhh that's the one. Remember how I said I wanted to bang her? Well guess what..."

His friends gape at him. Finally, one says, "Bull."

"I s--- you not, man. And get this. She came up to ME! I didn't even have to buy her a drink. Cheapest lay of my life."
-------------

Hm... I'd say that the guy came out on top (Or I guess it could have been you, I wasn't there that night).

Just Sayin,
Omar

P.S.
Gay guys know these ploys too. Seeing as how you're a member of the LGBT community, I'd have thought you would have acknowledged that. Or do gay men not figure into your evaluation of masculinity?

Its not just a man, but a man that can't write his way out of a wet paper bag.

Sally, you don't happen to be writing for someone who has got a 3000 word transcript he wants you to model as well as transcripts of about 6-7 DVDs do you?

Just checking...

Easiest Answer to that question... Read the art of seduction by robert greene.

Has examples for men and women on how to seduce (not take to bed) but use language and other devices to get someone to be invested in you to hire you.

It's something I use to get someone to buy me.

Also having confidence in ones self has massive impact on the end result

What a coincidence!

I'm also a bisexual lesbian.

Bisexual lesbians are the best lesbians...

...especially when they're guys.

Figures...

"She" never came back LMAO. It's probably the guy I just mentioned up above. Tight ass.

- Dean

I think the whole point here has been missed; true, it was intentionally misled, but still...
We're talking about fishing, bait, hooks, and that is where you will find the secret:
"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.
But teach a man to fish, and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day."
This is one of the secrets of the Mars-Venus, Yin-Yang mystery. ;-)

Men are mostly attracted to physical beauty. This is how we have evolved over millions of years.

Women are attracted to the way a man behaves. The way he carries himself. All those subtle things we men don't care about. They mean a great deal to women.

If I were to pitch a product in the seduction niche, I would use a logical approach. I would explain to my reader that as men, they actually have an advantage over women. They can actively learn the "right" way to behave that will result in female attraction. While a man's value can increase with knowledge, a woman's value can only diminish as she ages.

It's a logical pitch and it will appeal to a male audience.

Cheers,
Matt

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This thread has been entertaining to read Men are WAY more simple than women! Just give a man: lots of great sex, tell him he is the best at all masculine things (ego boost) and make sure you always look good and sexy. Once you get them excited, they can't "think" clearly about anything else.

I love teasing my man when he is trying to work or concentrate on something... funniest thing ever. Oh and also telling a man you get turned on by watching him do the dishes or clean the toilet works really well too.

OP definitely sounds like she is writing for the male audience (and the fact she is a tom boy with 6 brothers explain it). I also find it sus that she has not responded anymore.

Women are also better with emotions because it is more socially acceptable for a woman to express her feelings than for a man to. Showing emotions for a man usually signals some kind of weakness.

And I don't believe women are better copywriters than men. Copywriting is a task that is learned and mastered. Just like any other job out there. And I also feel this job appeals to more men because it's about winning people over. This is a skill more men are interested in than women usually.

Hence why you don't see many how to pick up a guy books! You don't pick up a guy, you get a guy to chase you.

Barnard's Law - The attractiveness of a woman will be in direct proportion to how much she is not interested in you.

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Two young sailors. Same age, same background.

They just got in from an extended trip. Both men horny as hell.

But, one of they young sailors spent his free time at sea reading the Wall Street Journal.

The other, spent his free time at the poker table learning the tells of his shipmates and pocketing thousands of dollars (he was, after all, a student of Frank Wallace and had mastered NeoCheating).

Into port they pulled. Young, virile, well built and good looking swabbies.

They headed to the nearest watering hole where the nubile and the willing were known to hang.

The Wall Street Journal reader had invested his money in a China EFT (precious metals). He only had a few dollars left over. He found a pretty girl and bought her an expensive dinner and took her to a theater. She went back to his motel room and told him her life story. She cried. They kissed. She left. He was left with only his blue balls and empty wallet.

The Gambler, who knew when to hold them, knew when to fold them...found a 20 dollar hooker in the corner of the nightclub and released his pent up time at sea.

Then he found a good poker game, bought a good cigar, some Chivas Regal and returned to the ship a few days later a broke and tired, but extremely happy man.

In the meantime, the China gov't suspended trading on precious metals, the WSJ sailor was wiped out, caught herpes from merely kissing the pretty girl he wined and dined and stumbled over the gang plank a broken, diseased and unhappy man.

MORAL?

That dumb ass sailor should have ignored that great Conroy promotion when he got it and saved his subscription money and put it into cigars, alcohol and nightclubs. Sin sells. And those selling it prosper.

OH, and so as to be somewhat relevant to OP, my dear, we men are not as created as equal as you seem to think. Consider this. I've never given a gal like yourself a second glance. Never needed to.

Why? Was it due to having mastered some sleazy NLP pick-up technique?

Certainly wasn't due to good looks, great body or hair. In fact, I've always been puzzled as to why I've had a bevy of beauties surrounding me...all I ever do is enter a place, look around, catch a pretty girls eye...and then out of nervousness, simply lick my eyebrows.

Which I wish I could somehow translate that to copywriting, cause, for some reason, it worked pretty dang well.

gjabiz

PS. I'm not buying "Pat's" story either.

Raises glass of Chivas, toasts, "Here's to Naval memories."

I would start by admitting that I know nothing about the subject, then ask her what she thinks, and then listen. That usually shocks and delights them.

I am in the market for a "sales copy enforcer" Must be at least 6foot 5 inches and weigh in at at least 280#. Physical violence involved. Any takers?

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Bah, she took the bait in your story, not him

Perhaps you meant "How to lure men", but you hit the nail with your title "luring men"

"Luring Men" manage to play the game deeper than just a single move...

Good copywriting is similar in that it influences you in a desired direction by focusing on something else.

At least it's been fun.....

From my own perspective, what we have here is a bunch of fishermen using base techniques and catching nothing. In turn, they're being watched by a different type of fisherman (or woman) who's also using base techniques and catching nothing as well.

Or something like that!

I feel that Male and Female gender does play a major part in writing great copy, in these two ways. The person who can embody both of these traits knows how to sell are true copywriters:

1. The greatest copywriters I know are empathic. We are energetically sensitive and can tune into the needs & feeling of an audience at a kind of psychic kind of level.

2. Hormones & Energy, Yes, it’s about hormones and energy. People with a good dose of masculine energy find it easier to write in a masculine style than people without.

If someone needs a specific gender-bias in your copy, does the writer have the empathic ability and the right ENERGY "masculine or feminine" to easily relate to the kind of copy that needs to be written.

Some great reads for males (and particularly male copywriters):

1. What Women Want Men To Know, by Barbara DeAngelis.

An excellent book which explains why women do what they do, and their thought processes. (Yes, they DO think in a different way to men... at least, according to the author.)

2. Dangerous Men And Adventurous Women, edited by Jayne Ann Krentz.

Romance novels sell by the truckload, and make Stephen King look like a struggling, small time author. This book contains a series of essays discussing the thought processes behind one of the biggest writing markets ever, and in doing so, gives us an intelligent "sneak peek" behind the veil of the female fantasy.

Of course, I should point out that, just as copywriters don't rely entirely on the opinions of prospects to decide what works or not (if they did, sales letters would be a page long, have no scarcity whatsoever, and have the price right at the top of the page in big bright lights), and the same is true of women on the subject of women.

But the above two books are genuinely helpful, and approach the subject in a very enlightening and thoughtful manner useful to a copywriter desiring to gain insight into the female mind (even though they are not about copywriting).

Hahahaha, whatever you guys do...

Do NOT look up "My Secret Garden" by Nancy Friday.

Under ANY circumstance...!

- Dean

I got a hundred bucks that says 247 copywriter is a man! lol

Luring men? For this one all you needed to do is walk up and say "I want you."
That's all there is to say or do - kinda like you're writing........

Not all men are so simple.

I saw him at the end of the bar talking with is friends. His body the hard, smooth replica of vibrant masculinity, but hard bodies and good looks were a dime a dozen in a place like this. What caught me was the promise.

The glint of his eyes when spoke, the reckless free laughter in his responses, the energy in his gestures, and his smile. Auh, that smile. That was a smile that promised to lead you to realms of excitement you'd never dare fantasize.

One look and I knew that this guy was not the average well wrapped, self-animated tool to be used for the night and tossed aside with the morning sun. This guy was the promise of fun and adventure...........and my backpack was in the car. All I had to do to embark on that adventure is to return that promise to him.................

1. Lesson 1 - keep em wanting more. If you are going to write seduction - why write something that leaves nothing much to be said after a couple of paragraphs? If the sex is as cold, dry, and denigrating as the description given in the OP, we can skip the details.

2. Seduction isn't "Hey, wanna do it?" It's an art. Seduction is the game in itself - you are writing cheap whore crap that promises nothing but a lifeless act of fornication that most people get sick of and walk away from very fast after the thrill and newness of having sexual organs wears off.

3. If it's for a website, write in mind of serial - to keep them coming back for more. I'm afraid the OP just lost return clicks. Why change from the palm to a different toy when what you are searching for is warm life?

Sal, I think I love you just in case I haven't told you in awhile.

247Copywriter,

If you ARE a woman, enjoy it while it lasts. There ARE other components also. HECK, I stopped what I was seeing to see what this one girl looked like at my office. Her laugh basically excited me. She has a nice body too, but otherwise doesn't look that nice. But she didn't have to say ANYTHING to get my attention, just laugh.

As for the gender genie? One post I just made, that was OBVIOUSLY written by a male, returned

Words: 294

Female Score: 169
Male Score: 349
MALE

THIS post, so far:
83 words
Female Score: 128
Male Score: 198
MALE

The OPs said:

words 256
female 322
male 241
FEMALE

But that "gender genie" is a GIMIC! I mean WOMEN don't say MORE or AROUND or WHAT or ARE or AS? Those are the top four keywords that make a text MASCULINE!

ME WANT BEER=3,4,0, FEMALE!
SHOULD ME WANT BEER=4,11,9, FEMALE!
SHOULD ME WANT MORE BEER=5,11,34, MALE!

SO remember ladies, DON'T ask for more, or what or who, or you will be branded as MALE!

Steve

The most gender revealing aspect of writing is the use of description - adjectives, adverbs, and phrases.

Whoever said it is right that women use more description in writing (and speaking). Throughout human evolution men have been the brute force of the family and community systems. Their speech necessities were more operative than descriptive. Women have done the socializing, most of the shopping, cleaning, home decorating, cooking, sewing, etc - all which take descriptive communication skills to teach, to acquire the correct supplies, or convey necessary imagery to others.

If you look at the descriptive terms in the OP - they are contrived and archaic. There is not much in the way of originality or any subjective quality. It all seems to be regurgitated from low quality romance novels.

"make hot passionate love" - might have been a term that would have steamed someone in the early 1900', but not something that's going to make a person's blood boil in these years. I can't imagine a woman actually even saying this other than in humor. I can't even really imagine a man saying it with any real depth of seriousness. It gets the point across, but there's no real imagery drawn from it. Canned and cliched. Out of date. There are several other points at which the OP hits cliche with no real imagery derived. Successful writing for seduction requires vast amounts of imagery to be conveyed.

Gay men -- are often more flamboyant than the average women when writing/speaking, but they tend not to use as wide a variety of descriptive terms as women, a person's hairstyle, for instance may be "fabulous" or "gorgeous" - but not very often "with feathery wisps and gentle half-curls"

I'm not sure what the heck the OP's purpose was in this post. Was s/he trying to show prowess with seduction because of the size of the niche in hopes to land some assignments? A troll just rattling the forum up a tad?
My guess is that it was a straight man who wrote this. If it was a gay guy - he needs to start being a gay guy instead trying to be a female clone, because he's not "getting" it. If it was a woman, it is an uneducated woman who is hoping to break into the writing field and has no sense of writing, time, purpose, nor place. Being that this is a copy writing forum - I can't imagine what a couple of paragraphs of low quality smut was supposed to prove.

As far as the gender machine - thumbs down.

BTW if the OP believes what it wrote, it is STUPID, pure and simple. I guess either way, but ESPECIALLY if it is not male, it is SEXIST!

And you'll note that I said male! I use that type of terminology when age is unknown or not meaningful. In this case, WHO KNOWS how old the OP is. I used the term IT because the gender is in doubt. I COULD have assumed, or used the passive voice, but I figured this had a better feel for the circumstance!

BTW women that hold such little regard for males are suddenly less attractive to me. I imagine women lose interest with men that have such little regard for females ALSO.

Steve

Heysal,

For the record, I have a certain set of words I KNOW but I will NEVER use. "fabulous" and "gorgeous" are words in that group. I will try to describe around them. WHY? Perhaps it is because of homosexuals using them so much, who knows... Most such flowery speech from males was, to say the least, frowned on in my day.

As for homosexual males having all these feminine attributes? FORGET IT! It is like some cheap notalent impersonator. That is one thing I will trust only a woman to pull off. 8-)

BTW I HATE using male in that context, but would prefer using gay for what it historically has been used for. In 10 years, people may start to believe that the flintstones was about homosexuality because of the flintstones theme!

HELL, that stupid urban dictionary ALREADY says:

And let's not even think about the christmas carols that say things like "don we now our gay apparel".

OK, consider it a joke, but things like that have a habit of hitting common usage and that has really already started.


Steve

Not much you can do about language evolution, Steve. There are language purists in every language group who fight evolution something furious....but it's not going to stop. Language and sociology can't be separated. When the society changes, so does the language and visa-versa. After all, language is just a means of conveying our ideology. "Gay" is a term that developed because of the flamboyancy of some of the homosexual community. Some are not flamboyant, and those guys, nobody knows are gay by means of observance. Those who are flamboyant and were easy to spot had attributes of general gaiety, thus the term "gay" ended up migrating its connotation - once the connotation migrates, the denotation will follow.

Amazing Sal.

Every now and then a warrior will bust out and show you what they are made of and "Woop"... you got served!

We have been officially served ladies and gentlemen.

Word ^ up!

Just to answer your questions Sally,

1.

We like the challenge.


Are you sure about that? Remember the answer to question number 1.
Don't believe me? Send a single guy (sometimes even a married guy) down to Miami for 2 weeks.


Yackity, Yackity, Yackity --lol. J/K. -- I guess there's always something to complain about.


I disagree with this one. Men are more emotional. Guys, you know how it feels when that chick breaks up with you.....so that's why we rush to do it first!



YouTube - Chuck Berry - My Ding A Ling Live

See # 5.

Miami -- Benjamins
Hollywood -- A movie script
New York -- Front of the Line @ the club
Boston - Tickets (to any game or theater event possible)
Wherever I go, where ever I be, I catch'em, reel'em & release'em.

How'd I do?

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