How Important is a Logo ?

39 replies
20+ years in business without a logo....will a logo change anything? Kicking around the idea..mainly because my agency is becoming more of a household word in the community and I'm thinking a "visual" may improve that image. Thoughts ? And who to hire to create a logo?
#important #logo
  • Profile picture of the author chapdaddy
    A logo is just a symbol that represents you/your business. When you see the golden arches, you think crappy hamburgers. Unless there is a reason you shouldn't, I would recommend you brand your company with your own image (headshot). It's far more personal and accomplishes the same purpose as a logo.
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    • Profile picture of the author Julie M
      I'd think a logo would be beneficial. A true logo though, would be more recognizable and can help to instantly get across to potential clients what you do and how it benefits them, so I'd go for the logo over the photo of you - it's more brandable. Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Originally Posted by Dan Williams View Post

    20+ years in business without a logo....will a logo change anything? Kicking around the idea..mainly because my agency is becoming more of a household word in the community and I'm thinking a "visual" may improve that image. Thoughts ? And who to hire to create a logo?
    1. Saw a car yesterday with a "classy" well done car wrap for a local State Farm agent. Definitely got my attention, but I don't know if I'd call. Seemed a bit "desperate." Or over the top.

    I have seen car wraps done nicely. I'm told a local tankless water heaters business gets two or three calls a day.

    2. Logoworks.com or 99designs.com have done well with me.

    Best of success,

    - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author Hans Klein
    Will a logo change anything?

    I have no idea.

    However, out of all the things that drive your business... the logo is way down on the list.

    Here are a few other questions that may lead to more of an impact:

    * How can I improve the experience for prospects/clients in the sales process and later when the client is a customer?

    * How can I offer more value to the client in a way that increases profits and improves customer satisfaction?

    * How am I unique from the competition... or if you've answered this question already... how can you make your answer more compelling?

    * How can I improve/tell/create the story built around both our company, services, and/or employees?

    * What are some new ways that I can reach prospects in order to communicate with them?

    * How can we more effectively generate leads and convert them to customers?

    * Are there any new and overlooked income streams we're missing?

    In other words, focus on what you know with some certainty is going to drive results. The logo's concept then may be built on this foundation if you choose to have one, which can be created easily with the help of a graphic artist.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Williams
      Hans, appreciate your thoughts but I think I've nailed down the items you brought up..but here's some food for thought to compare to your current agent and maybe you can tell me if we're "head and shoulders" above the competition.

      #1- you call for a quote- we not only call you back the same day with quotes from the top ten companies, we mail you out a complete package with a free gift, a booklet of testimonials from existing clients on savings, service, claims experience,money back guarantee, etc. In fact we promise to always call you back the same day, every time. All making us better than the competition

      #2- we follow up with a letter to you at 14 and 30 days after the mailing to be sure you don't have any additional ?'s

      #3- you choose us...you're work is already done if you don't want to bother with stopping down. we simply mail the doocuments to you for your signature..along with a welcome package including free gifts, an insurance portfolio for all your important insurance documents and a recap of the plan you chose. If you do stop in, you'll see your name prominently displayed on the welcome board in the lobby and be offered a soft drink/water while your appointment is initiated. You'll then be attended to by a topless agent age 25 or younger.

      #4- you get a handwritten note from the producer who handled your case within two days, just a little "it was really nice meeting you" type of note

      #5- You get a follow up welcome letter from the agency owner at the 14 day period with his promise to you, a free gift and an outline of the agency referral program and how you can be paid/rewarded for every person you refer.

      #6- after 21 days you get a quick call from your producer to be sure you were happy with the experience and if you had any other questions

      #7- after 30 days you get a questionnaire about the service you received and a request for a testimonial about your experience

      #8- you receive a quarterly newsletter from the owner with helpful tips and other usefull info and surveys on client satisfaction

      #9- All claims are followed up on in 30 days with a client evaluation form and offer to call and discuss any items that we can improve on in our service


      I currently use focused direct mailing to target markets, radiused mailings to neighbors of new clients who saved $$, referral rewards program, print ads/advertorials, website/social media, lost souls campaign to previous clients, cross sell- up sell incentives to all producers, networking chairperson at chamber event, etc

      So...does your agent "call" you up on your birthday to wish you a happy bday? Williams Agency does
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by Dan Williams View Post

        So...does your agent "call" you up on your birthday to wish you a happy bday? Williams Agency does
        Mine sends me a birthday card and a couple of bucks for an ice cream cone. - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author Pixus
    Hi Dan,

    well I think it's the one of the most important thing to have a logo that stands out. IMO the logo is a the face of a company, and usually it's the first thing that customer sees. Yes, a lot of business works without a logo with a success, but it has a few explanations. 1 - Company without any competitors i.e. unique product/service. 2 - Company which really creates/does quality and peoples love them and trust them. The customers do all the "good advertisement" between themselfs and potencional customers.

    Not sure about logoworks (as RickDuris mentioned) but I don't reccomend 99designs for a couple of reasons (self experience). Bunch of copycats, plenty of stock images, rip offs etc. Maybe you should try logotournament instead.

    Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author MChriston
    For those considering getting a logo...

    I've always been fan of Fotolia myself, great designs, great pricing. Just pay for what you need rather than a subscription.

    Given this discussion, I just did a search for "logo" on their site and got these 2068 pages! (not an affiliate link)

    So plenty of choice too!

    Enjoy!

    M
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Bray
    Originally Posted by Dan Williams View Post

    20+ years in business without a logo....will a logo change anything? Kicking around the idea..mainly because my agency is becoming more of a household word in the community and I'm thinking a "visual" may improve that image. Thoughts ? And who to hire to create a logo?
    Dan,

    A logo is about branding. Branding is
    about much more than a logo, although
    people get hung up about logos more
    than any other feature of creating a
    brand.

    It seems that you're already a local
    brand. I assume people relate to you
    as a personality and they see your
    business values as being an extension
    of your personal values.


    Once you start employing more people
    you must hope that they well also
    be imbued with the beliefs and ethics
    that you hold dear.

    This is the purpose of branding. It helps
    the public, your potential customers, to
    identify your values in the marketplace
    and choose to purchase from you as
    opposed to competitors, whose ethics.
    products and service may be different.

    As you've been in business for 20 years
    I am wondering if your business has now
    expanded to a new stage, and thus needs
    a stronger brand?

    Also it's possible that you're considering
    how you might package the business so
    that one day you could either sell it, or
    pass it on to your heirs?

    Branding will help in both instances.

    This forum really isn't the place for me
    To go into branding, and its relationship
    to logos at length. Suffice it to say I
    don't believe a brand is best described
    by a logo bought from a web site, or the
    local copy-shop.

    It is, I believe, possible for a business
    founder to create a brand identity, including
    a logo by following a well trodden path.

    This is a good place to start researching
    what branding is all about.

    The Essentials Of Branding

    I hope this helps?

    Stephen
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Williams
      Mine sends me a birthday card and a couple of bucks for an ice cream cone. - Rick Duris
      Rick, If I had clients as nice as you I'd send them $$ for ice cream as well


      Yeah, I hired a company I "googled" last night..we'll see what they come up with...and...thanks to all for the input
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  • Profile picture of the author emmedi
    A logo is not very important and you don't need one.

    You already have a logo and in your case it's your company name without any "logotype" (that is the little image symbolizing something).

    Visual logos are highly overrated. People don't talk with logos, people talk with letters and words, or, even better, sounds. So a good sounding name is important, because word of mouth use sounds. A good looking logo is just "nice to have".

    Even with Nike or Apple, people still say "Nike" or "Apple" they don't design the logos with their fingers up in the air.

    A logo isn't branding. Branding is a bit more complex and elusive than having a little image next to your name. Definitely which name you have is much more important.

    Your brand name says that you are a family company and in a "people" business this counts. So it's a good name.

    One thing I would fix instead would be the domain you use:

    a) Don't use a domain with a dash unless it's for SEO purposes
    b) Don't use a .NET domain, only and only and only a .COM domain

    Again this has to do with people. People have to say and hear your domain over the phone and the easier you make it, the better. And people have too much in their life to remember that YOUR domain is a .NET not a .COM. They think ".COM" is the standard, so you have to have a .COM domain.

    I understand it's tough to find a .COM domain with your name (mandatory) but spend some time (or ask a consultant) to make this change, I recommend that.

    And don't sweat anymore about a logo.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
      Originally Posted by emmedi View Post

      A logo is not very important and you don't need one.

      Even with Nike or Apple, people still say "Nike" or "Apple" they don't design the logos with their fingers up in the air.
      The statement doesn't make sense. Of course no one draws a logo "with their fingers up in the air," but when they see their logo on hats, t-shirts, whatever...



      Your brain SCREAMS their name.

      A logo is a doorway... a short cut to your brand.
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      • Profile picture of the author emmedi
        Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

        The statement doesn't make sense. Of course no one draws a logo "with their fingers up in the air," but when they see their logo on hats, t-shirts, whatever...

        Your brain SCREAMS their name.

        A logo is a doorway... a short cut to your brand.
        Sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous message, because you totally missed my point.

        And the point I made is that people TALK about brands with words and sounds. Even when they see it on a hat, t-shirt or whatever.
        (The mind needs sound, even if it's not expressed, to articulate thoughts)
        And it's obvious you cannot "design" a logo when you talk.

        So brands have to work by ear. (and logos mean nothing with ears).

        This is one of the reasons why brand ending with bad sounding sounds (like "U" for instance) usually don't work.

        Of course a nice logo helps the brand recall when you see it, but again for any practical use, it's the words (and the sound associated with them) that work, not the image.
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

        Your brain SCREAMS their name.

        A logo is a doorway... a short cut to your brand.
        I don't know if it's just about the idea that screams their name, but it could scream their name and cause a memory to be triggered, which causes a feeling to be evoked.

        I'm not a fweelings type of guy, but when I see various logos, I can't help denying a certain feeling is associated no matter what .

        Kinda like the first time I got sick on Budweiser beer. :rolleyes: I'll never drink that stuff again.

        - Rick Duris

        PS: In the case of Dan's OP, I'd be focusing on how to anchor/create a sense of trust with whatever image.

        PS: I also believe logos are like shortcuts for the brain. Kinda like desktop shortcuts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Pettit
    I have to agree that the "branding" is the important thing. A logo is essentially useless unless it forwards your branding. I would start there. You may actually design it yourself by the time you're done.
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      I was thinking about your question.

      I'd have the logo definitely include a nice picture of you.

      Have the graphics designer work their magic around your picture.

      For instance, there is a marked difference between a graphics only logo and one with a picture. Especially in real estate.

      Seen again and again, it builds to convey a sense of trust, personalness as well as a unique identity. When you're shopping local, people will come up to you and say "I know you! You're that caveman guy.... no, you're that Aussie lizard... no, you're Dan Williams! OMG! That's it! Hey, can I call you sometime?..."

      - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I think that a logo can hurt your business
    easier than it can help your business. So
    be sure your logo is saying what you want
    it to say.

    Just the other day the GAP tried to change the
    color of it's logo and quickly changed their
    minds after customer outcry.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author James Clark
      Think of Branding as an Iceberg. 15% of it is above the water the other 85% is below the water. The real benefits are invisible. The iceberg below the water is what sunk the Titanic.

      People make buying decisions to give themselves piece of mind and that is invisible!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Just the other day the GAP tried to change the
      color of it's logo and quickly changed their minds after customer outcry.
      For every one those, there are hundreds of leading companies who successfully reposition and revitalize themselves (aka rebrand) every year. Here are a few from 2010 (with before and after pictures of logos/packaging/signage/websites etc):

      2010 REBRAND 100 Global Awards Winners Showcase on Effective Rebranding
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      • Profile picture of the author Dude72
        I think, Logo's are like good slogans or good jingles. Everybody tends to remember them if you got a good one. I'm sure if you ask every guy what the theme song to ESPN is, most guys would know how it went. That's how effective a good jingle is on the minds of consumers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jiggaman6
    IMHO, a logo is VERY important. It's the first thing that prospective customers would see. It's a brand that you'll work on so that when they see your logo, they'll see awesome products and services.

    Just remember to spend a lot of time and effort in coming up with your logo. Gap has proven that it's not wise to change logo so you'll be stuck with it for a long time.
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    • Profile picture of the author emmedi
      Here someone says "logo" and means the logotype, the little image next to the brandname.
      For others it's just the brandname with its specific fonts and color.

      We have talked about GAP in this thread. For instance GAP has no logotype, just the brandname on a blue (or dark grey when in B&W) background. The choice of letters is specific for GAP of course, but overall it's quite a simple logo. A logo that the corporate identity firm that has designed it would have probably asked 6 figures for it. A logo that 80% of anybody here could replicate on his computer and skills.

      So is it worth spending time thinking about the logotype (the little image) for Dan? No.
      Will it be important what kind of logo the company he has googled will propose? Again, no.
      Unless they propose a totally unreadable solution, it will be just fine. But it hardly will change the business results of Dan and his insurance agency.

      The point is that a logo is always less important than the brand. There are brands with awful logos or no logos that do pretty well. And I challenge most people to recall the logos of most brands outside the obvious ones.

      If Dan has a problem is in the totally wrong domain, not in the logo.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by emmedi View Post

        Here someone says "logo" and means the logotype, the little image next to the brandname.
        For others it's just the brandname with its specific fonts and color.

        We have talked about GAP in this thread. For instance GAP has no logotype, just the brandname on a blue (or dark grey when in B&W) background. The choice of letters is specific for GAP of course, but overall it's quite a simple logo. A logo that the corporate identity firm that has designed it would have probably asked 6 figures for it. A logo that 80% of anybody here could replicate on his computer and skills.

        So is it worth spending time thinking about the logotype (the little image) for Dan? No.
        Will it be important what kind of logo the company he has googled will propose? Again, no.
        Unless they propose a totally unreadable solution, it will be just fine. But it hardly will change the business results of Dan and his insurance agency.

        The point is that a logo is always less important than the brand. There are brands with awful logos or no logos that do pretty well. And I challenge most people to recall the logos of most brands outside the obvious ones.

        If Dan has a problem is in the totally wrong domain, not in the logo.
        Well, you never know! WHAT logo was created almost AFTER the fact by an ACCOUNTANT! Here are a few hints!

        1. It is WORLD FAMOUS!
        2. EVERYONE RECOGNIZES IT!
        3. IT IS TWO WORDS


        GIVE UP?




        COCA COLA!

        The accountant just had a nice script, and they decided to have him write it.

        The BOTTLE is ALSO a registered trademark and a logo of sorts. You can determine the product EVEN if you are BLIND!

        HEY, International Business Machines is one that many probably never heard before! THEIR logo is simply IBM written with blue lines. They ALSO have the nickname BIG BLUE. Having a trademark like nikes can only go so far before everything gets diluted.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author emmedi
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Well, you never know! WHAT logo was created almost AFTER the fact by an ACCOUNTANT! Here are a few hints!

          1. It is WORLD FAMOUS!
          2. EVERYONE RECOGNIZES IT!
          3. IT IS TWO WORDS


          GIVE UP?




          COCA COLA!

          The accountant just had a nice script, and they decided to have him write it.

          The BOTTLE is ALSO a registered trademark and a logo of sorts. You can determine the product EVEN if you are BLIND!

          HEY, International Business Machines is one that many probably never heard before! THEIR logo is simply IBM written with blue lines. They ALSO have the nickname BIG BLUE. Having a trademark like nikes can only go so far before everything gets diluted.

          Steve
          A logo is the graphical representation of a brand. It's not a brand.

          When Coca-Cola (do you recognize it even if I don't use the logo? Yes, you do) started using "Coke" in advertising and on the packaging did it hurt their sales? No. It's even a shorter sound and people know they are talking about Coca-cola and not coal.

          We're not discussing about the importance of brands, we are discussing about the importance of logos.

          Best,

          - Marco
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  • Profile picture of the author HorseStall
    Originally Posted by Dan Williams View Post

    20+ years in business without a logo....will a logo change anything? Kicking around the idea..mainly because my agency is becoming more of a household word in the community and I'm thinking a "visual" may improve that image. Thoughts ? And who to hire to create a logo?
    Here is an interesting article about the psychology behind logo design that might give you some insight about why logos help - A Logo to Remember

    HTH
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Williams
      If Dan has a problem is in the totally wrong domain, not in the logo
      .

      Sorry for the ignorance but am I supposed to "manufacture" a .com opening for my agency?
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      • Profile picture of the author emmedi
        Dan, you have to find a .COM domain that's not taken and that suits you.

        Ideally it should be your brandname, but if it's taken try to find something that contains your brandname + something related (agency, insurance, family, ecc.)

        You go to one of the service that sell domains and do the search.
        The two services I use are Namecheap and Godaddy.

        (I cannot put links yet because I have too few posts on the forum, but you find them online easily)
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  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    A very smart direct response guy used a logo to get his client's envelope opened.

    It can happen. It doesn't happen often.

    A lot of you are making the mistake of thinking Joe Shmoe's got a brand, just because he's got a logo. If your target isn't seeing the forty million in ads you spent, they associate NOTHING with the mark. It's a waste -- right up until you are Apple, Nike, IBM.

    Don't mistake cause for effect.

    The logo doesn't make you into an instantly recognizable brand, where the mark is associated with a name or brand attributes. The forty milllion yearly, over ten years, forges the association.

    That's not how small companies succeed. But guerrilla marketers don't use logos this way. They do what generics do to "piggyback" on some existing association which is established in the mind. So you see the house brand carefully picks up the design of leading sellers on the store shelf.
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    • Profile picture of the author emmedi
      Originally Posted by John_S View Post

      A very smart direct response guy used a logo to get his client's envelope opened.

      It can happen. It doesn't happen often.

      A lot of you are making the mistake of thinking Joe Shmoe's got a brand, just because he's got a logo. If your target isn't seeing the forty million in ads you spent, they associate NOTHING with the mark. It's a waste -- right up until you are Apple, Nike, IBM.

      Don't mistake cause for effect.

      The logo doesn't make you into an instantly recognizable brand, where the mark is associated with a name or brand attributes. The forty milllion yearly, over ten years, forges the association.

      That's not how small companies succeed. But guerrilla marketers don't use logos this way. They do what generics do to "piggyback" on some existing association which is established in the mind. So you see the house brand carefully picks up the design of leading sellers on the store shelf.
      I agree with what you say regarding the fact that no logo or brand without promotion can work by itself. And the example you mention just confirms logos are visual shortcuts.

      So if your strategy is visual, a logo can help, but it doesn't do the whole work.
      Probably the smart direct response marketer could have had similar results just by writing the brandname (unfortunately he couldn't do a split test).

      But if marketing works on memorization of a message, then this message is linked to sounds, the sounds of the brandname when we read it or someone else talks about it.

      Best,

      - Marco
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  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    could have had similar results just by writing the brandname
    Nope. You're not even close.

    You're trying to apply brand theory to a direct response tactical use of a logo. It's not the same thing. Thinking the way branders do won't help you here.

    Or take branding to a next level: branding jujitsu.
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    • Profile picture of the author emmedi
      Originally Posted by John_S View Post

      Nope. You're not even close.

      You're trying to apply brand theory to a direct response tactical use of a logo. It's not the same thing. Thinking the way branders do won't help you here.

      Or take branding to a next level: branding jujitsu.
      How do you know that?

      If you are the smart marketer you didn't do a split test (since it was ONE shot) so it's just assumptions. And if you aren't the smart marketer then it's even more assumption.

      Thinking a brand logo has more power than a brand name is negated by practical experience.

      Try this: get 10 logos of medium known brands WITHOUT the brandname and show them to 10 people and see how many get the brand. Then do the same experiement with the brandnames.

      Branding doesn't need to be brought to the next level. It need to be understood in its key principles and too many people don't.

      Best,

      - Marco
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Steel
    Logos and branding costs freight trains of dollars if you want to do it right ... in my humble opinion, the right domain name is much more important.

    js
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    • Profile picture of the author emmedi
      Originally Posted by Jon Steel View Post

      Logos and branding costs freight trains of dollars if you want to do it right ... in my humble opinion, the right domain name is much more important.

      js
      Well surely having a .COM domain instead of a NET domain is key. Ditto for avoiding dashes.

      But if your brandname is "THISSUCKS" then a .COM domain cannot save it.

      Marco
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  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    If you are the smart marketer you didn't do a split test (since it was ONE shot) so it's just assumptions. And if you aren't the smart marketer then it's even more assumption.
    And where did anyone say it was a one shot -- not split tested? Too many people need to read stuff more thoroughly.

    One smart marketer may have used a logo. Doesn't mean he did it one time. Or that others didn't test it themselves, coming up with their own variations. The construction of the sentence doesn't even imply that.

    I like you. You're funny.
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    • Profile picture of the author emmedi
      Originally Posted by John_S View Post

      And where did anyone say it was a one shot -- not split tested? Too many people need to read stuff more thoroughly.

      One smart marketer may have used a logo. Doesn't mean he did it one time. Or that others didn't test it themselves, coming up with their own variations. The construction of the sentence doesn't even imply that.

      I like you. You're funny.
      I re-read your post and I misunderstood it. Thank you for pointing it out.

      And thank you for confirming what I say (even if you meant the opposite).

      Your example says exactly my point: logos don't communicate well without brandnames.

      They used a logo on a direct mail envelope that has the #1 goal of stimulate curiosity and getting opened. So, using a logo was more effective in getting the envelope opened, not because it communicated BETTER but because it communicated WORSE.

      And that was exactly my point.

      -- Marco
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  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    I also believe logos are like shortcuts for the brain. Kinda like desktop shortcuts.
    Like the "click-whir" compliance response of Cialdini, mental shortcuts can be redirected.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Williams
      Stirred up some creative thoughts with this thread:confused: I had been thinking on the logo that I may change our tagline and create a logo in one action...something like "Better Insurance for Less Money" which would also be complimented by betterinsuranceforlessmoney.com which I just bought along with half a doz others. I'm still wondering how...this will all work out:confused:

      Tagline sums up a USP effectively ?
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      • Profile picture of the author emmedi
        Originally Posted by Dan Williams View Post

        Stirred up some creative thoughts with this thread:confused: I had been thinking on the logo that I may change our tagline and create a logo in one action...something like "Better Insurance for Less Money" which would also be complimented by betterinsuranceforlessmoney.com which I just bought along with half a doz others. I'm still wondering how...this will all work out:confused:

        Tagline sums up a USP effectively ?
        It sums up this USP effectively. It's important that a payoff is clear more than creative.

        A slightly more interesting version would be "More Insurance for Less Money".
        It's easier to remember and stops attention ("What 'more insurance' does mean? Stronger protection? Less fineprint? More money I receive? More insurance companies to choose from? More insurance services?").

        In any case it's key the USP has a strong, believable reason-why.
        That is: why you offer more insurance for the money.

        It hasn't to be in the payoff, it isn't an ad, just a sentence that reminds of the USP. But it has to be in the communication you do.

        The question is: is this USP effective? Is it unique enough or already used by competitors? Is that what clients want the most?

        There is a test you can do:
        - ask your clients or prospects what are the main factors in the choice of an insurance
        - ask them to put them in order of importance
        - ask them to put brands next to each factor (if they can)

        With this test you can find the brand positioning that's most effective for your target. Of course you can do it by yourself, but it's useful to see how real customers do. You can even do it with an online survey tool, like SurveyMonkey if you have a mailing list it's a piece of cake.

        But even if you don't do this test, find an effective reason-why. It has to be believable, easy to understand and containing a "negative". A negative is something that's not so good so it makes the good part believable.

        People believe you more if they see limitations, if you show you have some negative they are ready to accept your positive.

        Best,

        -- Marco
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        Make Your Brand
        "Learn how to create your Fortune 500-like Brand even if your office is in a closet"
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