The Zen Master of Copy Is At It Again

by Harlan
70 replies
Matt Furey just released a new product.

Here's the link:

Matt Furey - The Fastest Way Humanly Possible to Burn Fat

I think it's AWESOME copy. It should be in your swipe file.

Great weight loss copy.

Great testimonials.

File this one away as a winner.

No that's not an affiliate link. I haven't seen the product.

Just savor the amazing copy.

Peace,

Harlan
#copy #master #zen
  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Thank you Harlan, it's put away in my swipe file.

    All the best,
    Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    If he was only half as good with web design as he is with copy he'd be unstoppable.
    (is that Perry Belcher in the testimonial?) ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Ross James
      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

      If he was only half as good with web design as he is with copy he'd be unstoppable.
      (is that Perry Belcher in the testimonial?) ;-)
      The graphics aren't going to solve the prospects problem, so I really would have to disagree, of course it would look nice. I guess without split testing it we'd never know



      Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    I concede that point. He obviously has a responsive list that he's working with, why mess with something that's working. Looks like a sales letter from 1998 but hey, he converts.
    Let's break it down a bit. He's found the readers' "Magic Bullet". Fast weight loss, eat whatever you want, and don't exercise. The "big promise," "The Fastest Way Humanly Possible To Lose Weight" the "hook," "the World's #1 Lush who eats and drinks all day"

    Answers what it is, what it does, and is it for me? in scannable text. Good testimonials and call to action.

    One little thing missing...

    No Guarantee?

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    • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post


      No Guarantee?
      Vincenzo,

      Matt is a living example of "contrarian" copy. If I'm not mistaken, he doesn't out a guarantee on any of his products because of the exercise and because he doesn't want to deal with BS.

      I know there is no guarantee on Combat Fitness- I bought it. Great program, to be honest.

      Funny enough, I know some of those people giving testimonials and can attest to the testimonials.

      Hm. Maybe I just invented a new copy strategy?

      Best,

      Angel
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross James
    Matt Furey doesn't need a guarantee. That is, you don't want a knuckle sandwich.




    Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author Bob Paroski
    Thanks, Harlan. It's in my swipe file.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      I am not compelled enough to read below the deck copy. This is a Zen master? One more master that is less than impressive to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
        It's got some really good parts, but as a whole I don't see much
        that is swipe worthy. I like the 'in your mailbox you'll receive' part.

        I've always liked Matt's marketing in general.

        Put me as the author instead of Matt and it would be 'ok'
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        • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
          Harlan, would you mind walking us through this sales copy..... Why you think it's so amazing this sales letter?

          Only, I'm not seeing it.

          What precisely is going on here which you believe hits this one out of the park?

          This subheadline is very strange...

          It even worked for Trevor Crook, the world's #1 lush who eats and drinks to excess almost every day.

          Couldn't exactly have a more undesirable surname could he? And what is a 'lush' and why is the boast about eating to excess every day a good thing?

          It's pretty low grade this sales copy to be frank with you and certainly won't be going in my swipe file.

          But you know, do tell us why you believe it's so good Harlan.

          I'm interested to read your opinion.
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          • Profile picture of the author mrdomains
            I donĀ“t see anything special in that copy. I do see grammatical errors and convoluted formulations that hurt the eye.

            Below average in my book.
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            • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
              Big fan of Furey.

              Not my favorite copy guy, but then, I never had any idea whether he writes his own stuff or not.

              He IS really great at building relationships with his list, and selling to them via personality and branding. He's also pretty strong on concepts -- both developing them, and tying them together.

              I'm sure this'll convert well for him. His list always arrives pretty well pre-sold.

              His fundamental list building, consistency of voice and message, and related but distinct product lines probably provide a pretty good model for anybody who wants to start on the way to building an empire, rather than a simple business. (Although, I think he started off with a product, a piece of copy, and an advertising budget, if I remember correctly.)

              Anyway, always nice to keep tabs on what successful marketers are up to.
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              • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
                Originally Posted by Oxbloom View Post

                Big fan of Furey.

                Not my favorite copy guy, but then, I never had any idea whether he writes his own stuff or not.

                He IS really great at building relationships with his list, and selling to them via personality and branding. He's also pretty strong on concepts -- both developing them, and tying them together.

                I'm sure this'll convert well for him. His list always arrives pretty well pre-sold.

                His fundamental list building, consistency of voice and message, and related but distinct product lines probably provide a pretty good model for anybody who wants to start on the way to building an empire, rather than a simple business. (Although, I think he started off with a product, a piece of copy, and an advertising budget, if I remember correctly.)

                Anyway, always nice to keep tabs on what successful marketers are up to.
                The copy doesn't have to be fantastic- like you said, they are all pre-sold by his emails.

                Matt is a fantastic email copywriter - that's his bread and butter. SO when someone has been blasted with his emails over several days and finally arrives here, they're good and ready to buy. Plus, the testimonials are very powerful. They tell solid stories.

                Interesting fact: the other day, I was speaking with a friend and copywriter.

                We both thought it was funny that most of the Old School copywriters and Gurus (Matt, Dan Kennedy, Clayton Makepeace, Halbert, Bencivenga, etc) probably knew less about copywriting and marketing when they made their first million than the hoards of new writers now.

                Something to think about, methinks.

                Regards,

                Angel
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      • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        I am not compelled enough to read below the deck copy. This is a Zen master? One more master that is less than impressive to me.
        I agree - it's weak.

        Try running that via DR and you'll be in trouble.

        His business is built on email and relationships - people buy because they like him and they identify with his persona. (which is why he can get away with a lot - like having a horrible layout and graphics) Nothing wrong with that... smart actually.

        But the copy is nothing special.
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        • Profile picture of the author Harlan
          There's an old saying about casting pearls before the swine....

          Let me assure you Matt is hitting all of the target triggers and emotions.

          He knows his list and they will buy massively. This will be a huge homerun for him.

          As far as his targeting Trevor Cook in his subhead, he's been warming his list for days with that.

          They are going from email to sales letter.
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        I am not compelled enough to read below the deck copy. This is a Zen master? One more master that is less than impressive to me.
        I couldn't agree more. I mean it's decent, but it didn't exactly give me an orgasm. The copy is missing a lot of ops to create synthetic experiences for the reader and push them over the edge. The value building and call to action isn't out of this world either. I'd be VERY interested in seeing how it's performing...that's the real test.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
    I've been on Matt Furey's mailing list for a couple years.

    His e-mails are amazing. And yes, he does hit some emotional hot buttons in that weight loss copy.


    Bill




    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Sanchez
    Hey Harlan...

    Remember when you posted a sales letter and everyone critiqued it only to discover it was one of Dan Kennedy's most successful sale letters? Deja vu.

    Here's what I find so funny:

    So many people critiquing the "graphics" and structure of this sales letter...written by of one of the most successful sales letter writers today.

    I've seen and heard of so many online marketers get their trash handed to them on a silver plater by a "simple straight forward letter" just like this.

    And Matt Furey is successful for a reason... and not just because he pre-warms his list.

    Furey originally put out some of the most successful copy in Martial Arts magazines for years. A direct Dan Kennedy protege (he used to promote Dan Kennedy for helping move his company into the stratospehere - I even suspect some of his first copy was written by DK himself).

    Furey mentions all sorts of triggers in his copy.( I loved "cottage chesse fat"). His Subheads, in case anyone was wondering, work just like National Enquirer headlines.

    I agree with Angel: Too many of us are such "educated experts" that we think we can critique the experts. How dumb is that?

    Why not, (as a master copywriter on this forum told me recently) "... be egoless..." and sit back and actually learn. Props to you VM.

    And Harlan, gracias for sharing. I totally bunked and missed this promotion and would have missed on this gem if you hadn't posted and shared it with the rest of us.
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Ken,

    I'm sure Matt will have something to fix your leaky bladder
    and vaporize the urine smell!

    All the best,
    Ewen

    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    It was so good I peed my pants.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Sanchez
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      Ken,

      I'm sure Matt will have something to fix your leaky bladder
      and vaporize the urine smell!

      All the best,
      Ewen
      I have kids...

      I would pay a hefty sum to vaporize the urine smell.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    If you're the market the copy is good. If you're not, it's not. It's that simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
      Did the 'Zen master' write this page? We may be romancing/bashing
      a hired gun rather than Matt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    I love the guru apologists and apostles. I have a reading recommendation for them: The Emperors New Clothes.

    I showed the letter to 2 people who ARE his audience. They were not compelled. Besides, I wouldn't mind dropping about 20 lbs myself and I was repelled.

    Here is a tip for you guys. If the reader doesn't get below the deck it doesn't matter if you "hit all the triggers" or not.

    The letter sucks. "Dear Friend"? Are you serious? At least make it Dear Rotund Friend.
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    • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
      Don't forget those who are guru haters, Bruce

      I do agree with you. The power with this letter is going
      to work with people warm to the brand (i.e. Matt)

      People are getting hung-up on the Matt Furey part. Our
      feelings/respect for him justifies and bi-passes what may
      or may not be stellar copy.

      I think the copy has good parts, but if I were one of his
      customers I would put far less into what the letter says.

      There are a few letters Dan Kennedy has floated out there
      that made me ill... but it was for his offer and the leverage
      he has in my mind that absolved him of the atrocity.

      I LOVE Dan. I AM his target market and it WAS an offer I
      I bought from... the copy still sucked
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    honestly, i dont think the copy is all that... but thats just my (uneducated) opinion.... the thing could be converting like gangbusters, what do i know? lol

    as long as it's making money for him, thats all that matters.... and i'm sure harlan wouldn't post it otherwise.

    That said, I've seen some REALLY good copy in the weight loss niche.... some videos are CRUSHING it as far as sales go.

    Something people are overlooking... FRAME OF MIND.

    Pretty much the only people who see this copy are .... (drumroll please...)... his email subscribers, right?

    subscribers = warm leads

    they know, like and trust him in some capacity. And since he blasts them often, he has somewhat of a relationship with them...

    his subscribers = very warm leads

    So they're more apt to buy his stuff. (this is the big piece of the puzzle)

    When i've launched stuff to my lists, i've gotten anywhere from 10%-33% conversions depending on the offer and list, and I'm not a world class copywriter... in fact, i've never really "learned" to write copy... I've just picked things up that i've observed over the years and i know how to sell.

    I email my lists a lot (although not as often as matt)

    Matts made more money than me, so until i've hit that level, i can't say anything.... but to me, the only way copy is 'good' is if it converts on COLD/PAID traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Sanchez
    2 friends...well I'm glad you did all of that split testing.

    I'll email Matt. He'll probably take it down now because he won't make any money.

    PS - Matt's "market" isn't just people who want to lose weight. That's a poor and vague market judgement. There is so much more to knowing a market than that...every good copywriter knows this.

    PPS- Even great marketers fail and make mistakes. It's how they got so good (by making and correcting course). And picking out peoples mistakes to make yourself feel better doesn't make you better. Makes you good at picking out mistakes. Matt has made millions from his courses worldwide...might know a thing or two, n'est-ce pas?
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Danniboy View Post

      2 friends...well I'm glad you did all of that split testing.

      I'll email Matt. He'll probably take it down now because he won't make any money.

      PS - Matt's "market" isn't just people who want to lose weight. That's a poor and vague market judgement. There is so much more to knowing a market than that...every good copywriter knows this.

      PPS- Even great marketers fail and make mistakes. It's how they got so good (by making and correcting course). And picking out peoples mistakes to make yourself feel better doesn't make you better. Makes you good at picking out mistakes. Matt has made millions from his courses worldwide...might know a thing or two, n'est-ce pas?
      Exactly. Just being overweight doesn't make you the market.

      I bought a whole load of stuff from Matt in the late 90's earlly 2000's (when he first started out). And I can honesty say, even though his stuff was exercise and martial arts related, not everyone who into exercise and martial was his market.

      I know this for a fact because I used to frequent a lot of those fora and found opinions divided as to the effectiveness of his products.

      I bought them and liked them. In fact, almost everyone who bashed him even back then were people who insisted they were the market... but never bought the stuff.

      Plus, while this copy isn't brilliant, it is good enough for his market.
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      • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
        I don't know if it's just me but I think that other thread
        with the 'Mafia Wars' sales letter is a far better 'swipe'.

        To me that hits the triggers of the target market better
        than this one.

        But what do I know
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        • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
          Originally Posted by IM Viper View Post

          I don't know if it's just me but I think that other thread
          with the 'Mafia Wars' sales letter is a far better 'swipe'.

          To me that hits the triggers of the target market better
          than this one.
          You're damn right it is and you're damn right it does.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
          Originally Posted by IM Viper View Post

          I don't know if it's just me but I think that other thread
          with the 'Mafia Wars' sales letter is a far better 'swipe'.

          To me that hits the triggers of the target market better
          than this one.

          But what do I know
          You're right: There's a HUGE difference between the two.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Many agree the letter sucks but apologize for Furey by saying it doesn't matter because it is for his list.
    A. It always matters
    B. Congratulations. Don't swipe it though.

    Actually, what do I care? Swipe away... the more wannabe copywriters that think this is good, the less competition there is in the real world. I do have sympathy for your clients though.
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    • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
      Harlan - you quite neatly sidestepped my question above, perhaps you cannot answer the question posed for whatever reason properly?

      I'll ask again...

      What precisely makes this sales letter so good in your opinion that it should go in everyone's swipe file?

      What specific buttons does it hit a chord with in your mind?

      In other words, what makes it so outstanding in your opinion?

      Would you like to guide us through this sales letter step-by-step...why you believe it to be so good?
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        This one draws a long "Hmmm" from me.

        Whoever wrote it, I admire their creativity. I really do.

        But I don't believe Matt wrote it. Not for one second.

        I'll share why.

        I'm no martial arts expert by any stretch. But my daughter, Crystal is. She was 14 when she got her black belt. I used to take her to Karate class and watch her practice as much as I could. Three times a week I'd watch.

        With martial artists, there's an "efficiency of movement" which is undeniable once you see it and it sets in--there's an obvious "snap" to everything they do.

        ---------------------

        Another example: A real street fight lasts for 8 seconds on average. There's no wasted time or movement. Once you've decided to take out a person out, you drop him as quickly as you can. You're in and you're out.

        There's no messing around. Too much risk.

        ----------------------

        Now translate.

        Looking at this piece, in this context, it's bloated. Overwritten. Wasted words that have no immediate relevancy or impact.

        One doesn't have to look any further than above the fold. (For practice, rewrite it. Just the "above the fold" part. Take out all the "fat.")

        My point? An experienced copywriter, one who's also a martial artist, did not write this.

        Plus WTF is a champion martial artist like Matt doing hanging out with a "lush?"

        I doubt.

        Plus, doesn't make sense to put so much focus on Trevor Crook, a guy folks have never heard of, does it? WTH is Trevor Crook? I have no idea.

        ---------------------

        Last thing. For fun, look at Matt's other "product" sales letters. They're tight, compelling and to the point. Just like Matt.

        This one? Overweight. Not obese necessarily. Just overweight.

        ----------------------

        Bottom line, it's incongruent with who Matt is and what he's accomplished.

        And best case, even if he did write it, it's definitely not his very best work.

        My (humble) opinion is Matt didn't write this piece. But still he's a damn good copywriter.

        - Rick Duris


        PS: Now, here's my real guess:

        I believe Trever Crook wrote this piece in collaboration with Matt.

        They're presenting soon at a Ted Nicholas event together.

        Look at it this way: Matt being any kind of a stand-up guy and respected pillar of the marketing community would not deliberately insult a colleague publicly, calling him a "lush."

        That's just inappropriate. Agreed?

        But I'll bet, dollars to donuts, this "lush" thing was "their hook." And for whatever reason, Trevor didn't have a problem with it.

        Again, do NOT take my opinion or conjecture as fact.

        What I DO know as fact is people who see this thread and go to Matt's website are messing with Matt's metrics.
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  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    I'm with the contrarians on this one...

    Bold (but not original) promise in the headline. But could have at least made the effort to tack "- GUARANTEED!" onto it.

    There's very little attempt throughout the copy to back-up this promise though... just some story about him lifting weights when he was 13, which seems like a completely pointless, round about way of saying "you're not 13 anymore."

    Then there's no "before" and "after" of Matt's muse, Trevor Crook. In fact there's Just a head shot... and it looks like he's still a little chunky!

    Visually, the transformations in the testimonials aren't exactly amazing either, compared to what you normally see in this market.

    "But they're realistic!" you say... maybe so, but not congruent with the promise, "the fastest way humanely possible to burn fat!"

    Far from swipe worthy in my opinion. But tell me it's a blockbuster and I'll happily change my mind.

    Colm
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    all i know is despite me not loving the letter, i have mad respect for matt..... he's made a bunch more money than i have and i can surely learn from what he's doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    This is one of the best pitches I've ever seen - Beach Millions - I mean, from his tan and all, it's obvious he spends a LOT of time at the beach. Making millions. Without having to do any work at all. Who knew?
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

      There's an old saying about casting pearls before the swine....

      Let me assure you Matt is hitting all of the target triggers and emotions.

      He knows his list and they will buy massively. This will be a huge homerun for him.

      As far as his targeting Trevor Cook in his subhead, he's been warming his list for days with that.

      They are going from email to sales letter.

      Harlan, assuming you're any kind of a copywriter, I'm absolutely sure you know there are MAJOR ways this piece can be improved.

      At face value, standing on it's own, this piece BEGS for a major edit (fat trimming.) As well as abandoning using Trevor Crook as the hook. It's also craving, like an addict going through withdrawal, an irresistible offer.

      -----------------

      In addition...

      I know probably more than most, the value of a hot list. I don't know Matt's business intimately, but I do understand that two or three step strategy being used.

      But doing a pre-sell or set-up, doesn't take away the fact this piece, standing on it's own, even to a targeted ultra-hot list that adores Matt, needs major work.

      - Rick Duris


      PS: "Pearls before swine...?" Nice cliche. Inappropriately insulting, however. Especially considering the quality and caliber of people commenting.

      Might as well have called folks here ungrateful, ignorant pigs and be done with it. However--I still say the graphics, strategy and presentation are mediocre. The copy? Not written by Matt.


      PPS: Here, I'll put my money where my mouth is. I'll rewrite this piece on spec. Give me a day--at max. But I'll want a significant cut.

      On the other hand, if my piece doesn't do at least 2X better with the SAME hot list and similar warm-up process, I'LL PAY THEM for their time and consideration.

      How's that for being certain this piece can be massively improved?

      (Yes, I can be more specific on the deal, but I'll discuss that with Matt directly.)

      Set the deal up Harlan, and I'll give you a meaningful piece of my cut for pointing out this opportunity.
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      • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
        Rick just added something for us all to swipe, but most will not...

        Balls
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    "Awesome copy" huh? For starters...tell me...is "Lush" a common American expression? I've never heard it used in American movies or television. I know it's somewhat common in Britain and Australia/New Zealand - if a bit old-fashioned. One would say "p*ss-head" these days probably. So I can't get past that. I can see a whole bunch of Americans scratching their heads and going "what's a lush?"

    Then I start reading the testimonials and come to this -
    "oh my god sweetie, your midsection is really starting to take on a sexy shape."


    Is it just me or is that sweetie guy still a fat *******? Sexy shape? WTF? Lost me after that.
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      "Awesome copy" huh? For starters...tell me...is "Lush" a common American expression? I've never heard it used in American movies or television. I know it's somewhat common in Britain and Australia/New Zealand - if a bit old-fashioned. One would say "p*ss-head" these days probably. So I can't get past that. I can see a whole bunch of Americans scratching their heads and going "what's a lush?"

      Then I start reading the testimonials and come to this -

      Is it just me or is that sweetie guy still a fat *******? Sexy shape? WTF? Lost me after that.
      BINGO! The clue phone is ringing. Nobody in "the states" uses the slang word "lush."

      (People in "the states" don't use the phrase "the states.")

      Malcolm just identified one clue. There are more.

      But frankly, I'd just abandon the whole Trevor Crook hook and be done with it.

      - Rick Duris
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post


        But frankly, I'd just abandon the whole Trevor Crook hook and be done with it.

        - Rick Duris
        You mean it's a crook* hook?

        * Australian slang for "wrong", "bad", "ill" - as in "that's a really crook salespage" or "I was feeling crook so I wrote a pretty dud salespage"

        And of course "crook" can also mean "thief", "villain", "dishonest". Possibly not a very good connotation to be using on a salespage.

        BTW I still think it funny that Richard Branson named his Australian airline "Virgin Blue".

        "Blue" in the vernacular means "wrong" or "mistake" or "fight" - as in "I got into a blue at the pub the other night".

        Cheers you swine.
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        • I have to admit I didn't read the page. I don't have a dog in this fight...

          But I'm curious why use the story of a copywriter?

          I'm sure you all know trevor is a copywriter from Oz (I think). Friend of Matt's? The copywriters who ghosted it, looking for an easy subject? I dunno.

          Like I said, I'm staying out of the debate over the quality of the letter because I've not read it. But I am curious about why Crook was used.

          Gotta say I just don't get it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Collette
            I'm with you on this one, Vin. I don't get the hook either. I know who Trevor Crook is, but I don't see the connection.

            If, as Harlan hints, the list had already been warmed up to the whole "Trevor Crook" angle, it would be enlightening to see the campaign in its entirety. Presumably then the letter would make more sense.

            Granted, I only scanned the page. However, on its own, I don't get it.
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            • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
              Originally Posted by Collette View Post

              I'm with you on this one, Vin. I don't get the hook either. I know who Trevor Crook is, but I don't see the connection.

              If, as Harlan hints, the list had already been warmed up to the whole "Trevor Crook" angle, it would be enlightening to see the campaign in its entirety. Presumably then the letter would make more sense.

              Granted, I only scanned the page. However, on its own, I don't get it.
              Hey Collette,

              I have the emails Matt sent out warming his list for Trev.

              There are several of them in my Matt Furey Folder . If I can dig them up, I'll put them together into a PDF and attach it to the thread.

              If anything, the emails are worth swiping.

              Best,

              Angel

              Edit: Going through, I only found 1 email by Matt regarding Trevor. It is a rather extensive email, though. I also received an email from Trevor (whose list I'm on) with the text from Matt's email with the subject line "Insulted By Matt Furey."

              Good stuff. I'll post both emails in a PDF to be seen.
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              • Profile picture of the author Collette
                You're not assuming the position...

                Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                Just working on the proper response to the presence of the august...
                as witnessed from Netiquette FAIL in 50 Milli-seconds or less...

                Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                My God. There IS intelligent life on this forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
            Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

            I have to admit I didn't read the page. I don't have a dog in this fight...

            But I'm curious why use the story of a copywriter?

            I'm sure you all know trevor is a copywriter from Oz (I think). Friend of Matt's? The copywriters who ghosted it, looking for an easy subject? I dunno.

            Like I said, I'm staying out of the debate over the quality of the letter because I've not read it. But I am curious about why Crook was used.

            Gotta say I just don't get it.
            It didn't occur to me until Rick mentioned it - I just assumed it was a lazier attempt by Matt (I still think it's good enough for his list) - the copy was probably written by Trevor Crook.
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          • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
            Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

            Gotta say I just don't get it.
            You are not alone.

            And that's EXACTLY why I say I *KNOW* I can double the conversions of that piece, in short order.

            - Rick Duris

            PS: Harlan, I don't know your motives... whether you are "a backlink shill" this time as Bruce and Ken suggest... whether it's one of your mischievous pranks... or what. But I do know you used to have an eye for good copy.

            PPS: I'm surprised you haven't contacted me yet regarding my offer to rewrite, Harlan. Maybe you're taking my "gambit" and running with it yourself? If you are, it's ok. I don't mind at all.

            PPPS: This is not me being cocky or "having balls" as someone suggests. I'm just looking at the piece clinically. After reviewing, I am certain it can be massively improved. And I'm willing to bet money on it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
              Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

              PPS: I'm surprised you haven't contacted me yet regarding my offer to rewrite. Maybe you're taking my "gambit" and running with it yourself? If you are, it's ok. I don't mind at all.
              Rick, you don't get it. It was written by a Zen Master of Copy. To even suggest that you can improve it is blasphemy.

              You may not know who you're talking to. This is the guy that ran a contest for weight loss copy and the winner was not selected by test, as would be appropriate, but by Harlan himself. He claimed to be able to discern the winner easily and accurately and no test was needed. Funny, I haven't seen Bencivenga make that claim. In fact, he makes the opposite.

              But he's not Harlan.
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              • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
                Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                You may not know who you're talking to. This is the guy that ran a contest for weight loss copy and the winner was not selected by test, as would be appropriate, but by Harlan himself. He claimed to be able to discern the winner easily and accurately and no test was needed.
                And out of professional respect for Harlan, I prefer not to comment. I do not know the details.

                My comments are about the copy and the opportunity it represents, not about Harlan. I know of him, but I do not know him well enough to comment, one way or the other.

                - Rick Duris
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              • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
                Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                Rick, you don't get it. It was written by a Zen Master of Copy. To even suggest that you can improve it is blasphemy.

                You may not know who you're talking to. This is the guy that ran a contest for weight loss copy and the winner was not selected by test, as would be appropriate, but by Harlan himself. He claimed to be able to discern the winner easily and accurately and no test was needed. Funny, I haven't seen Bencivenga make that claim. In fact, he makes the opposite.

                But he's not Harlan.
                I hate to admit it (copywriters probably all know what I mean), but I have to agree with Bruce about the copy. I went over it again - properly this time - and it is pretty ****e.

                It can immediately do with a heck of a lot of tightening up. Just that would improve it 100%.

                I really don't believe Matt wrote it at all. That's not to say I think all of Matt's copy is brill. I just know he can write much better than this.
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                • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
                  It would be hilarious if Harlen gave us another cup check. I remember
                  that last smoke job he did... that was great.

                  He can't possibly think this copy is that good. I don't believe it
                  and I wont believe it... well unless he says so
                  Signature




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                  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
                    Originally Posted by IM Viper View Post

                    It would be hilarious if Harlen gave us another cup check. I remember
                    that last smoke job he did... that was great.

                    He can't possibly think this copy is that good. I don't believe it
                    and I wont believe it... well unless he says so
                    He said its AWESOME copy and should be in our swipe file. That's pretty clear cut. He knows it sucks... maybe. Have you seen his sites? Its just ass kissing piking.
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                    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
                      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

                      He said its AWESOME copy and should be in our swipe file. That's pretty clear cut. He knows it sucks... maybe. Have you seen his sites? Its just ass kissing piking.
                      Hi Bruce,

                      Well, if Harlan didn't know it sucked before, he surely knows now. And I bet he's regretting, the unfortunate for him, turn of this thread, big time.

                      But still, I'll also bet he'll put on his "game face," come back and again call us a bunch of ungrateful, ignorant, unappreciative, "no nothing" pigs.

                      And in response, this time us "contrarians" will say, all in chorus... "FU. This piece still sucks. It needs major work."

                      - Rick Duris

                      PS: Again Harlan, my previous offer still stands. Set up the deal. They pay me when it works, or I'll pay them and you get a nice cut. Here let me qualify:

                      YOU GET A NICE CUT--EITHER WAY.

                      I'm dead serious.

                      But like a horse chomping at the bit, I'm also getting kinda impatient. I'm itching, I'm dying, to pull the trigger. So either contact me by Sunday night or the deal's off and I'll redirect my copywriting creativity elsewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    His copy keeps him in business because his courses while effective if used correctly are far from visually or technically appealing. I watched him in "Combat Stretching" for over an hour in his living room with a buddy recording the dvd ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author corycrabb
    Okay great ill check it out and let you know what i think about this swipe file.
    Signature

    (Ask to join our marketing mastermind group in facebook)
    ~ Enter Here ~
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Let me explain what this was... a shill backlink. Nothing more.
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    • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

      Let me explain what this was... a shill backlink. Nothing more.

      ya think....
      Signature




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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Now this is what's known as a crook site. Oh - my - God. Trevor Crook's Magic Words Sell - A Potent Cocktail of Copywriting Success

    p.s. check out the old piccie of FK on that page
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    • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      Now this is what's known as a crook site. Oh - my - God. Trevor Crook's Magic Words Sell - A Potent Cocktail of Copywriting Success

      p.s. check out the old piccie of FK on that page
      You know, I actually have a few of Trevor's programs. And though he seems to be getting a bum rap in this thread, he is a legit guy.

      If you go to his website, Free Copywriting Blueprint : Trevor Crook, he gives away his Copywriting Blueprint program. The material is quite good, so it's really not just some useless BS.

      Best,

      Angel
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ARSuarez View Post

        You know, I actually have a few of Trevor's programs. And though he seems to be getting a bum rap in this thread, he is a legit guy.

        If you go to his website, Free Copywriting Blueprint : Trevor Crook, he gives away his Copywriting Blueprint program. The material is quite good, so it's really not just some useless BS.

        Best,

        Angel
        A web page designer he is not. That's gotta be one of the worst examples I've ever seen. Truly dreadful. He could very well be the world's greatest writer but what's the point if you can't read it?
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        • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
          Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

          A web page designer he is not. That's gotta be one of the worst examples I've ever seen. Truly dreadful. He could very well be the world's greatest writer but what's the point if you can't read it?
          Yeah, I'm not defending the design. I went partially blind when I saw it.

          Regards,

          Angel
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          • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
            Originally Posted by ARSuarez View Post

            Yeah, I'm not defending the design. I went partially blind when I saw it.

            Regards,

            Angel
            Matt's not the designer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      Now this is what's known as a crook site. Oh - my - God. Trevor Crook's Magic Words Sell - A Potent Cocktail of Copywriting Success

      p.s. check out the old piccie of FK on that page
      You have just 50 milliseconds. .. <click>
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      Now this is what's known as a crook site. Oh - my - God. Trevor Crook's Magic Words Sell - A Potent Cocktail of Copywriting Success

      p.s. check out the old piccie of FK on that page
      I actually have the licence to that. The program itself is not bad, although the sales copy for it leaves a lot to be desired.

      Thankfully, I made my money back with an email I sent out.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatriciaS
    Well, I read all the comments and then the sales letter. I don't know whether it's a shill backlink or not, but for the sake of argument let's just say not for the purposes of my reply.

    Here's what I'm wondering -- how many of the people who found it not at all compelling have had life-long or at least decades-long weight problems? Frankly, while it's certainly not THE most compelling copy I've ever read, it got my interest. No way I'd pay anything near that, but at a much lower price point I might have been interested.

    Some of you, I think, may be forgetting about, or may not understand, that hungry market, which, in the weight loss/management niche is more like a starving market.

    My one strong criticism (other than the limp design) is that it dropped off at the end quite dramatically. I felt like the support had been pulled out from under me. One minute I was skimming along, the next -- thud!

    I really enjoyed all the comments.
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