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Shorter sales pages are surely more effective?

by GenerousBoy
28 replies
If the prevailing perception is that 'no one reads anything anymore', why do marketers continue to write such long sales pages?

I don't know about you guys, but at least 50% of sales pages I come across are equivalent to being run down by a tsunami of copy and shark biting graphics, with the direct result I just want to run.

Of course it depends on the product and the quality of the copy, but as an adman, the direction for some years now has been: more is less/less is more. So, please tell me, why such long sales pages?
#effective #pages #sales #shorter #surely
  • Profile picture of the author Bane
    Originally Posted by GenerousBoy View Post

    If the prevailing perception is that 'no one reads anything anymore', why do marketers continue to write such long sales pages?

    I don't know about you guys, but at least 50% of sales pages I come across are equivalent to being run down by a tsunami of copy and shark biting graphics, with the direct result I just want to run.

    Of course it depends on the product and the quality of the copy, but as an adman, the direction for some years now has been: more is less/less is more. So, please tell me, why such long sales pages?
    Shhh, don't tell them that... I like the majority of Internet Marketers to still think long form is the way to traffics heart.

    You are of course, completely correct - people are used to recognising long form sales letters for exactly what they are. No longer are they as effective in creating rapport with your traffic.

    In fact, if you are targetting a product that will be mostly seen by people 21 or under, using long form sales letters is basically disasterous.

    This is why A/B testing is important - but not many people take the time and effort.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by Bane View Post

      Shhh, don't tell them that... I like the majority of Internet Marketers to still think long form is the way to traffics heart.

      You are of course, completely correct - people are used to recognising long form sales letters for exactly what they are. No longer are they as effective in creating rapport with your traffic.

      In fact, if you are targetting a product that will be mostly seen by people 21 or under, using long form sales letters is basically disasterous.
      This is incorrect and if that's what you think that's less competition for me I guess. A Sales letter should be as long as it needs to be to sell the product or service.

      Long form copy is good in the fact that it covers both types of people who come to look and possibly purchase. It covers those who like to read about all the details of the product, and it also should be created so that people can just skim through and read the points they want to.

      So to say that long form sales copy doesn't work anymore is a bunch of crap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by GenerousBoy View Post

    So, please tell me, why such long sales pages?
    To sell expensive products (in particular), you need to answer all the reasonably foreseeable objections in the sales copy. Those long copy pages that so many people allegedly find so distasteful seem to remain pretty popular with people who do real split-testing, don't they?
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    • Profile picture of the author Bane
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      To sell expensive products (in particular), you need to answer all the reasonably foreseeable objections in the sales copy. Those long copy pages that so many people allegedly find so distasteful seem to remain pretty popular with people who do real split-testing, don't they?
      Absolutely, if your product is going to be a hard sell (because of its price, the traffic you are sending isn't optimal, the content isn't great) the longer the sales page the better.

      But if you aren't dealling with those particulars, it's my belief that a short sales page converts higher.
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      • Profile picture of the author ClaireM
        I have looked at some sales "letters" lately that are video with the words on the screen - from some of the top internet marketers. I actually don't have the patience for those and have yet to finish one. Video with a sales letter OK, but if I have to wait for someone to read what's on the screen before I can get to the next point or the offer, I get frustrated. I skim, and I want to find out the info at my pace, not the reader's pace. Seem to be relatively new, any thoughts? I am going to be putting together my first product soon and want an effective sales page.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by ClaireM View Post

          I have looked at some sales "letters" lately that are video with the words on the screen - from some of the top internet marketers. I actually don't have the patience for those and have yet to finish one. Video with a sales letter OK, but if I have to wait for someone to read what's on the screen before I can get to the next point or the offer, I get frustrated. I skim, and I want to find out the info at my pace, not the reader's pace. Seem to be relatively new, any thoughts? I am going to be putting together my first product soon and want an effective sales page.
          Claire, if you notice carefully there's been a growing trend to have the sales video on top, followed by the long-form sales letter which basically says the same thing right below it. I feel like this is the best approach as it caters to both camps - the people who don't like to read and love video, and also the people who prefer reading/skimming and examining things in detail.

          I'd go with that approach if I were you.

          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author sirtom
    Originally Posted by GenerousBoy View Post

    If the prevailing perception is that 'no one reads anything anymore', why do marketers continue to write such long sales pages?

    I don't know about you guys, but at least 50% of sales pages I come across are equivalent to being run down by a tsunami of copy and shark biting graphics, with the direct result I just want to run.

    Of course it depends on the product and the quality of the copy, but as an adman, the direction for some years now has been: more is less/less is more. So, please tell me, why such long sales pages?
    I'll be honest.. It seems like we're transitioning into that "less is more" mentality, but from my experience long form sales letter are still surprisingly effective. If they're able to be skimmed, of course.

    That's why we've been seeing more video sales letters, which is just a more engaging long-form sales letter, with minimal or no copy beneath with a BUY button at the bottom.

    But, also from my experience in my own niche businesses, although the IM-MMO industry may be tired of the longer sales letters, they're still ridiculously effective in the sub-niches. People in a lot of smaller niches aren't used to seeing sales letters as often as we are to develop the mentality towards them that some of us have.

    Kinda like someone new to "internet marketing"... They aren't used to seeing sales letter all day and unfortunately end up buying a good few of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author LongBanana
    I would agree. I like smaller sales pages a lot more than those which have essays to read. I think it would be more effective overall for almost any target market because of the simplicity. People love simplicity and if they see a video and some small information on it. They may just be inclined to buy the product you are selling.
    Short. Simple. To the point.
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  • Profile picture of the author rusty1027
    What you need to keep in perspective is that you, as a warrior, probably look at 10 times as many sales pages as the average person. So your point of view is skewed because you see it for what it is. For example, I've seen thousands of these long sales letters, so when I see one now - I immediately go straight to the bottom to get the real scoop. My wife on the other hand, would definitely read every word. So even though you may think these lengthy pages are "old school", they do still have a place and serve a purpose, but I agree with Bane, you need to do some testing of your own to decide what works best for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Nic, you know how many times this has been asked on WF? Beaucoup. So don't be surprised if the Mods nuke this post. For instance, here's a thread from just 4 days ago - http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-too-long.html and if you Google "short sales pages versus long sales pages" you'll find over 8 Million Broad results.

    But the short answer to the long versus short salespage is - the longer you can keep a reader on the page the better chance you have of converting him. But I hear you - some of the long sales pages bore the sh*t out of me. But you'll find people aren't reading it all anyway - they're scrolling/scanning. They read the subheads. That's why its a good idea to string subheads together that more or less tell the story. The rest is just filler.

    Ho hum. Out.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      Nic, you know how many times this has been asked on WF? Beaucoup. So don't be surprised if the Mods nuke this post. For instance, here's a thread from just 4 days ago - http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-too-long.html and if you Google "short sales pages versus long sales pages" you'll find over 8 Million Broad results.

      But the short answer to the long versus short salespage is - the longer you can keep a reader on the page the better chance you have of converting him. But I hear you - some of the long sales pages bore the sh*t out of me. But you'll find people aren't reading it all anyway - they're scrolling/scanning. They read the subheads. That's why its a good idea to string subheads together that more or less tell the story. The rest is just filler.

      Ho hum. Out.
      With higher-ticket items ($100+) you definitely want traditional long sales copy. You have to highlight all the great points of the product, point out the objections, and tell a story that will engross the reader and draw him or her in.

      Even with the Clickbank products that are around the $77 price point, I've seen lots of long-form sales letters. I'm pretty sure several varations of those sales pages have been split tested (including short sales letters), and almost invariably you end up seeing long-form sales letters (sometimes coupled with video that basically says the same thing), so my conclusion is that it must work on a wide range of products with different price points.

      It's easy to draw conclusions without empirical data to back it up, and we should guard against that. The only way to know for sure is to test, and we have to resist the temptation to decide on issues like this without having all the facts at our disposal (and not just go on assumptions/opinions).

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author 32paul52
    A nice though, but if you are a niche like the classic "dog training" or anything else, its the info product concept- looks like you get more for your money. but as someone else- testing is key......rather than pure opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    The best converting sales letter is the shortest one that covers everything the reader needs to know to make his/her buying decision.

    If I offer you a solution to your problem for $100 then I can increase the chance that you'll buy it by telling you that you have 60 days to make your mind up and get a refund if you're not happy.

    If a friend recommended the product and you know you want one, the presence of that guarantee doesn't make it any less likely that you'll buy.

    Perhaps you're the kind of person who likes to hear what other people think (yeah, yeah, you're not influenced by those "fake testimonials"). But what if you're not. Do those testimonials make you less likely to buy? Or do you just skim past them?

    Maybe you're a techie type and you want to see the features list. You don't care about the long list of benefits. Do they stop you from reading the feature list and making your decision?

    Make more sense now?
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Originally Posted by GenerousBoy View Post

    So, please tell me, why such long sales pages?
    Hi Nic,

    Let me ask you a question...

    Do you want to buy my car?

    That's it. That's my sales letter. It's nice and short, right?

    The problem is that I haven't covered all the bases. And I haven't given you enough information to make a buying decision.

    After all, you don't know if I'm selling a new Ferrari for $1 or a rusted-out, 1972 Pinto for $95,000. One of those is a good deal; the other... not so much.

    So it's not about whether long or short copy is best -- it's about providing a complete sales presentation with all the information a prospect needs to make a decision to buy (or not).

    Of course, good copy doesn't end there. The copy also needs to compel your reader to want to buy and then take action.

    The product dictates the length of the copy. For simple products, often short copy is adequate. It depends on the product or service being offered.

    Regards,

    John

    P.S. Over-the-top graphics/mini-site design is another issue, entirely.
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    • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
      kill me now....
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      • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
        Originally Posted by IM Viper View Post

        kill me now....
        Agreed.

        First off: split test.

        Write a GOOD long page letter and test it against a GOOD short letter, and see which converts better. If you can boil down the offer so tightly that it forms a powerful, short letter while covering all the points... great. You didn't need the rest.

        For me, most pages I write end up in the 12+ pages range. And try as I might, I can rarely get them below this number.

        Why?

        Because you're selling. And a salesman has to get attention, build rapport, build interest, build value, create urgency, and close the sale. He also has to do this while keeping interest and attention.

        Like Dan Kennedy said: in person, you get immediate feedback on what your words and body language are saying. You can immediately adjust your presentation. In writing copy, though, you can't. But you can get a whole message in the prospect's hands and have the chance to make all your key-selling points.

        Also, many copywriters are hire for highly saturated markets. Weight loss, supplements, fitness, financial, biz opp, etc. These markets need you to tell them everything because they've seen it all.

        You can't get away with saying, "My **** works. Buy it now. I'll make you a lot of money, but you have to pay me an upfront $183 + $98 a month for continued access to this lead gen page."

        So again. Split test and see what works best.

        That's the joy of copywriting and direct response. You really don't have to take someone's word for it.

        Best,

        Angel
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  • Profile picture of the author asimbawany
    I have looked at some sales "letters" lately that are video with the words on the screen - from some of the top internet marketers. I actually don't have the patience for those and have yet to finish one. Video with a sales letter OK, but if I have to wait for someone to read what's on the screen before I can get to the next point or the offer, I get frustrated. I skim, and I want to find out the info at my pace, not the reader's pace. Seem to be relatively new, any thoughts? I am going to be putting together my first product soon and want an effective sales page.
    Claire, its the same for me... I dont have the patience to listen to them reading the same words on the screen without any seek bar but here's the thing. even though I don't like it, I find myself glued to it. The reason IS that I am waiting for the final scoop. I dont get that till the end so I forcefully made to stick to the end, and I dont wanna miss it either because I know if I miss it, im going to have to watch the whole damn thing again... that ensures my attention to the screen.
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    • Profile picture of the author ClaireM
      Originally Posted by asimbawany View Post

      Claire, its the same for me... I dont have the patience to listen to them reading the same words on the screen without any seek bar but here's the thing. even though I don't like it, I find myself glued to it. The reason IS that I am waiting for the final scoop. I dont get that till the end so I forcefully made to stick to the end, and I dont wanna miss it either because I know if I miss it, im going to have to watch the whole damn thing again... that ensures my attention to the screen.
      Even when I am trying to do research watching a "video" sales letter for something I don't want to purchase, I can't make it to the end. I get bugged and feel like my time is being taken advantage of....I don't know how long it will be! But I guess the whole point of this entire thread is to make several sales letters and split test. So I guess I will make one like this when I am ready to launch my product. Short, Long, one with video and writing, and one with video reading the writing.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        The best converting sales letter is the shortest one that covers everything the reader needs to know to make his/her buying decision.
        Yes, that's right, and that means that sometimes the sales page must be very long indeed.

        If you look carefully at long sales pages for seminars or coaching programs priced at $500 and up, you'll see that very little can be cut without creating a situation where the sales page no longer addresses all the concerns of most prospects.

        That's the only reason they're long - not that it's some kind of style, like hemlines.

        Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author geegel
    Length should be a function of how much you relevant information you need to deliver. I don't believe in the long sales page nor in the short sales page, I only believe in the appropriate lengthy one.

    Regards,
    George
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Roy
    I always use short sales copy.

    In my opinion, LONG SALES COPY = HYPE SHORT SALES COPY = To the point, and accurately describing the product, thus attracting people interested in what the product actually is.

    There's no reason to have a 10,000 word sales page in my opinion, how long does it actually take to tell somebody what you're giving them?

    I have an average conversion rate of 8% on my sales pages, I have two which pull in over 10%.

    In my experience sales pages are best kept short, to the point, they tell the people what they're getting (rather than hyping it up), thus actually attracting people interested in your offer.

    Long, hype filled sales letters are nothing but a guessing game, thus people purchase out of curiosity, rather than necessity or improvement. You know what happens when a boatload of people purchase 'out of curiosity' right? HIGH REFUND RATE!

    Maybe you'll get more sales, but having satisfied customers is WAY more important. In my opinion, telling people what they're going to get, why they should get it, in a short, to the point manner builds a much more respective customers base, and much lower refund rates.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    A "long" sales letter should have two parts in one:

    There is the long sales letter and there is the short sales
    letter built into the long sales letter.

    A sales letter should be structured so that a person
    who just skims the letter (the short version) will
    still get the essence of what you are selling and
    the person who needs more information can get
    that too.

    Not many writes know how to do this but it is
    possible.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Topgunb
    Long or Short

    Some great comments and points

    Long copy will outsell short copy - and the reason is simple
    as correctly stated by Raydal "the short sales
    letter built into the long sales letter"

    head and sub headlines, bullet lists bold text

    Short I find works best in the Social networks.

    But lets be honest. I have seen horrible long boring pull my teeth root canal bad long copy ... and no it will not sell!

    I was taught that every word must earn the right to be on the page.

    The psyc reasons are not for this discussion but the logic to by a cigar and the logic to by a house are worlds apart. So the sales copy must address these to be effective.

    Let the final deciding factor be conversions only!
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Bottom line, make the sale. Everything else is just juvenile debate.
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