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Just out of interest?

by Steve The Copywriter
27 replies
I've noticed on a few recent posts - and stacks of others - that several copywriters love to scrap with each other.

Why?

Is it an ego thing, or using some kind of "personality in copy" - that compels it to happen.

Or are you just trying to be like a lot of the stroppy guru's.

Sometimes it's entertaining to watch - but it does seem a waste of time.

There's one benefit - when you read the various battles that go on - it makes me think "how would you best handle these "objections" in a copy piece."

Do you fight with clients? (I'm guessing that'll go badly).

I'll put on a hard hat and a bullet proof jacket - in case anyone responds to this.
#interest
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Some of the enmity is left over from Fortin's now defunct board.

    Generally though, just look at the world around you. It's human nature.

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Yep. Disgussing copywriting ain't pretty and it ain't for sissys.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Speaking for myself only, there are a few things I find irritating. First, incompetents mascarading as authorities. Second, sychophants afraid to speak the truth. Lastly, idiots that devalue copywriting or confuse it with article writing.
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    • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

      Speaking for myself only, there are a few things I find irritating. First, incompetents mascarading as authorities. Second, sychophants afraid to speak the truth. Lastly, idiots that devalue copywriting or confuse it with article writing.
      And this is why I've come to think of Bruce as "the Copy Castrator."



      Best,

      Angel
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

      Speaking for myself only, there are a few things I find irritating. First, incompetents mascarading as authorities. Second, sychophants afraid to speak the truth. Lastly, idiots that devalue copywriting or confuse it with article writing.
      Well said... sir.
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      • Profile picture of the author virginiad
        My response would be sexist, so I will refrain
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  • Profile picture of the author copycashvalve
    I'll tell you why, copywriting isn't a field that you can easily acclimate to.

    The sooner you piss off your peers the quicker you'll learn from them.

    Speaking for myself, only.

    I love each and every one of you.

    Just kidding, I really do.
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  • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
    Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter View Post

    I've noticed on a few recent posts - and stacks of others - that several copywriters love to scrap with each other.

    Why?

    Is it an ego thing, or using some kind of "personality in copy" - that compels it to happen.

    Or are you just trying to be like a lot of the stroppy guru's.

    Sometimes it's entertaining to watch - but it does seem a waste of time.

    There's one benefit - when you read the various battles that go on - it makes me think "how would you best handle these "objections" in a copy piece."

    Do you fight with clients? (I'm guessing that'll go badly).

    I'll put on a hard hat and a bullet proof jacket - in case anyone responds to this.
    Lol fighting with clients, I suppose that depends on what type of clients you work with! But yes... good question. I was scanning the boards and noticing the same thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Yes, we are an odd egotistical bunch, us copywriters. It's because we are the God's of the economy. We make things happen. We are tormented and suffer from an overflow of creativity and drive to keep the engine of commerce going...all for the sake of our craft. Oh the pain.
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      • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
        When you get a bunch of people who are, shall we say, very confident about their abilities, know how to argue a point and make a living by identify emotions and targeting them, what do you expect?

        It's inevitable, and it's funny.

        Look at Bruce. He's cracked and we're now seeing the copywriting equivalent of 'going postal'!
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    lol... its ego man.... its been going on for years since fortin's board...
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  • Profile picture of the author jtunkelo
    I don't fight with clients, would never disrespect them and bite the hand that feeds me.

    However, I have fought *for* clients' profits. Big difference. In fact I've refused projects with good money on the line, where it became clear I wouldn't ultimately be given the go-ahead to do my thing, which would result in success.

    Fighting is not nice nor necessary, but it is true: marketing and copywriting can be messy, and indeed is not for sissies...
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    They suffer from a very common fallacy of argument:

    Description of Ad Hominem

    Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."
    An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
    2. Person A makes claim X.
    3. Person B makes an attack on person A.
    4. Therefore A's claim is false.
    The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
    Example of Ad Hominem

    2. Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
      Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
      Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
      Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."
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  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    I don't know. Me, David Deutsch, Bob Serling, Carl Galletti and a few others used to get together, make s'mores, and sing campfire songs every so often.

    Serling is a chocoholic. (Don't tell anyone I said)
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      Originally Posted by John_S View Post

      I don't know. Me, David Deutsch, Bob Serling, Carl Galletti and a few others used to get together, make s'mores, and sing campfire songs every so often.

      Serling is a chocoholic. (Don't tell anyone I said)

      Dude.

      That's An Explosive, Closely-Guarded, Cash-Sucking Secret!

      Did you hold Serling's feet to the fire to force him to Reveal This Top-Secret Information?

      (I would have gone for all-caps and some yellow highlighting, but I'm afeard of Mr. Subtle's wrath. :p)
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  • Profile picture of the author MonsterZero
    Meh.

    There's a lot of "fronting" that goes on here. Part of it is copywriters trying to adopt the persona of a tell-it-like-it-is-I'm-so-good-I-don't-give-a-**** Gary Halbert type.

    The other part is that so much of this is subjective. You can argue all day long about a piece of copy and can't really prove a thing one way or another without testing it.

    I know garbage copy when I see it, but can I prove it's garbage? No. Not until someone puts it out there and fails to make any money with it.

    And I also think I know good copy when I see it, but can I tell you for sure what will convert? Not with certainty. And my accuracy will decrease even more if I don't know anything about the target market.
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  • Profile picture of the author vip-ip
    Everyone here is marketing themselves, and the competition is tough. Many prove others wrong by ousting their flawed copies, in hopes that someone will see their critique and think well of their service - perhaps get in touch for a quote, or go straight to them to buy a copy.

    Best Regards,
    vip-ip ...
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  • Profile picture of the author randoggle
    Egotisticle argueing and argueing (negotiating) with a customer are two different things. Im not a copywriter. I dont profess to be great at grammar and i suck at spelling. Im admittedly jealous of those who are copyrighters.
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