Is copywriting your dream or your nightmare? New guy looking for help.

15 replies
Guidance.

I'll tell you about myself--my fears, experience, ambitions.

Fifteen years ago I had a genius of an English teacher. He forced me to write an essay...my first college level essay. I wrote a hypothetical piece about a timeline where the Nazis and Japanese won the war. I thought it was fantastic--and the ******* failed me--because it sucked. A year later I received the third highest mark in my graduating class for my essay on, "Completion." It saved me from repeating grade twelve. I thought, "What luck!"

Six years ago I was working as an audio video installer (basically a digital plumber.) I didn't care for it. Part of my job involved training the noobs on a boring ass software package. Being lazy, I decided to write a training guide so I wouldn't need to spend precious time better utilized smoking pot and playing video games. I wrote it, emailed it, and went on with my day.

The next day I met with my Boss. "Tony...," he said, "This is fantastic."

"Oh yeah? Thanks."

"Tony."

"Yeah?"

"What are you doing here?"

"What do you mean?"

"You aren't an audio video technician. You're a writer."

The idea excited me enough to try. So I interviewed a local rock band, and sent it to the community music rag. The accepted it...and paid me $35! They also asked me for another.

I then told everyone I knew I was a writer. I pitched stories at other local rags, and soon I was penning for four different magazines and pulling in a whopping $400 a month writing about music.

I started getting invited to cool parties. Local bands wanted to buy me beer and hang out. It was pretty sweet. At twenty seven I was a music writer. Nobody ever asked me what my credentials were.

Then one magazine went out of business. Then another went out of business. Then I quit my job and left for Winnipeg Canada! My best friend got me a gig at the Winnipeg Free Press, writing advertorials about truck shows and baby conventions. I made enough to scrape rent and eat Kraft dinner. I felt like a wizard that lived in a shoe.

Something was different about this awesome job--it sort of sucked. I was broke. I was also sick of hustling. I stopped writing for money. I gave up. I moved to Montreal and indulged in poetry and drugs and sex, occasionally getting published in rant articles. That was four years ago.

For the next three years I slaved as a bus boy, trying to hustle my way to bartending hoping that would fulfill me. My friends would ask me, "What happened to the writing?" I just shrug, "I still do it for fun." Fun for me was two hundred Bukowski inspired poems, eight thousand words of an imaginary novel and nine thousand forum posts on self help.

My friend is working as a copywriter and insists I am perfect for creative ad copy. "Isn't it like digging ditches with words?" I ask.

"Where you gonna be when you're sixty?" He says.

The **** if I know. But I have to choose something. Maybe advertising is it. Maybe I should dig my own ditch. It's got to beat bartending.

Writing copy seems like some terrible dream. For me it feels like a choice. But I don't know much at all about much of anything. I'm sure I'm perfectly capable with some training. It's just difficult to decide what the hell you want to be and why.

I'm thirty three now. No education, a bunch of writing experience and some restaurant bull****. I'm really sick of ****ty low paying jobs. I'm better than this. I'm better.

Don Draper don't look too happy but at least he gets to drink at work. I'm gonna grab a beer right now. Thanks for reading.
#copywriting #dream #nightmare
  • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
    If you are a born writer (and let's face it, you either have it or you don't), there is no reason why you cant be a well paid one.

    The trick is to never put your eggs in one basket. I started out writing online - the money was, well, crap. It bothered me that I had a natural writing talent which had won me a few awards for creative writing and had me published in a short story book without being paid. (Pants, I know).

    I tired writing for magazines and made a terrible mistake early on - instead of pitching to a magazine, I sent my work off...when I rang them, no one would speak to me. Imagine my horror when two months later I picked up the mag and guess what? The magazine had taken my article and used it as the basis for their own article and even used my title word for word. Because they had slightly changed the content, I could never prove it was mine.

    That made me mad. I too was scraping the bottom of the barrel, but this is not where the money is. I learnt this pronto and now work freelancing for local businesses. I also have diversified and am a proper trained copywriter.

    It's a brilliant marriage. I have loads of offline clients - yesterday I got picked up by a business in London who have booked me for June through to December for a HUGE project involving a luxury range of clothing for a niche market. My skills as a writer and a copywriter will come into play here - I will be doing all of their web content, cataloging their goods, writing product descriptions and doing all of their marketing and branding.

    If you want my advice as someone who once struggled too, don't lose your talent. You are a writer most definitely, and who says you can't learn to copywrite? I did Paul Hancox's copywriting course - and it is brilliant.

    Six months of intensive coaching and he will help you get your first few clients. Thanks to him, I got picked up by an agency in Australia! Ill be writing sales letters and autoresponders for them whenever they need me to do so.

    What I love about what I do is the versatility in the work - when I am not copywriting, I am writing for businesses. I earn up to $125/hr and I have 2 kids and am a stay at home mom. I might be highly educated, I might have once worked for one of the biggest professional services firms in the world at one time, but writing is where my heart is.

    It's also what allows me to look after my kids. See that little monkey in my profile pic? That beautiful boy is the reason I write from home - and I am happier for it.

    Don't let your writing talent go to waste - you don't have to suffer for your art like I once did - you can consistently earn big money as a writer and a copywriter. And guess what? The work never ends. You aren't dependent on a magazine staying in business to succeed.

    I wish you the best of luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    I think you've got a lot of talent for writing.

    Copywriting? Who knows.

    I will say one thing...

    This gig takes discipline. It's an art, but there are also a lot of rules. You can't just do what you feel like artistically... you gotta do what brings in the cash for your client.

    For example... I don't know any copywriters who smoke weed regularly (though I may just not know about it). Most of us who are successful tend to be pretty focused on what we do.

    I'm not doing the "drugs are bad" thing... just pointing out an observation.

    I have a ton of friends who smoke weed (many of them musicians)... but if you're a copywriter, you're a businessperson. Which means you've gotta be sharp and constantly honing your skills.

    To me... it sounds like creative writing is where your heart and head is at. So my advice is find an agent and go down that route.

    Of course... that's having read one post from you. I could be very, very wrong... but enjoy it for what it's worth.

    -Daniel
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • Profile picture of the author JWatson
    Let me see if I can reply without alienating all the amazing and talented copywriters here.

    It sounds like you have the raw talent to do very well as a copywriter. And since you asked I absolutely think you should try it out. Part-time, a day a week or a few hours several times a week is a safe way to explore it unless you are at the take-this-job-and-shove-it stage. (I know both quite well. :p)

    Forgive me if I mis-read your note, but I did feel there was a pretty strong negative undercurrent which I interpreted as related to purity of art.

    Writing is an art (at least at the level of many of the members here). Just as with visual art, some artists greatly resent applying there skills to commerce. If they force themselves it does gnaw at them. Others see it as "fun" or a "game" and have a blast.

    Just my 2 cents (spend them fast )

    Watson
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  • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
    Hello Sebastion

    In agreement with Daniel Scott, you can certainly write well. But and this is a very big but... there is a massive difference between freelance writing and copywriting.

    Copywriting is essentially salesmanship-in-print and there are quite a few rules which must be followed, which I feel will come into conflict with your own preferred style of writing.

    If you take on copywriting from a financial point of view only... I think you'll feel let down quite badly and still be left feeling unfulfilled in your life. This is my take given your opening post above.

    However, what I did glean from the above is that you seem to enjoy writing tutorials.

    Now, tutorials need not be as boring as you might imagine especially in this, the Internet marketing industry.

    I know you want to make money and you also want to experience a feeling of satisfaction for what you are personally doing in life. For you, the two go hand in hand.

    What if you was to start creating your own information products?

    First, you'll need to decide on your niche...

    Who wants and needs the information you can supply with your own artistic, creative writing abilities?

    In other words... you can make the tutorials, (whatever the subject matter finally is), a lot of fun for the end user / reader / audience. Afterall, most people learn the most when they're having fun. And perhaps this is a niche you can fill well.

    Let me try to give you an example...

    You obviously enjoy music and smoking the odd bit of pot here and there (as I do )... Is there some way you can tap into these niches to provide information... which will be in great demand from your target market audience?

    What problem, what frustration is your target market feeling?

    What do they want to know right now?

    What problem do they need a solution for right this instant that they'd be willing to exchange money for, to get their hands on what you can provide for them as a solution?

    Hell, I bet you could write these all day long!.

    Whatever your niche is... make it easy for your target audience to understand and voila! You can start selling your tutorials, courses, eBooks, formulas, blueprints for whatever price you want. Over and over again. It's a digital product. Create it once, slap it down in front of your hungry potential buyers and rake in the cash.

    Will it make you a fortune overnight? No, but you know as well as I do, that you've got to start somewhere and right now, you're sick and tired of just bumming around all the time.

    At least make a concerted effort to make a start and see how this option works out for you.

    I'll be happy to help you further since, despite it all, you do seem to still have a hunger inside you to make a success of this.

    Feel free to write to me at the address below...
    Signature
    --->----->----->----->-----> MarkAndrews IMCopywriting <-----<-----<-----<-----<---
    http://www.IMCopywriting.com
    Mark@IMCopywriting.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Sebastion
      Thanks for the advice everyone.

      I definitely do have a little fear of sacrificing art for money.

      So copywriting is more about being a salesman than a writer?

      I am definitely not good enough yet to be a published author of fiction. Non fiction perhaps. But I haven't thought that through either.

      Basically I've been jumping around a few different career ideas, and I always come back to my writing skills to make a buck. I should probably focus on that.

      So if you see copywriting as a game, and laugh at your own wit and ability to influence...you can come to love copywriting?

      Yeah I cut the pot out. No more pot.
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      • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
        Send me an email, I'll get you on the right track. Address below in my signature...

        Copywriting is salesmanship-in-print pure and simple. Might not be your thing plus the learning curve is steep. It's not as easy as it looks.

        You get lots of newbies here and they think, 'hey copywriting, I could do that, that's dead easy', but very quickly learn it's a lot more difficult than they first imagined.

        Most of the top copywriters here... we do it because we have an absolute passion for the subject - we've loved it since we were kids. Anything and everything advertising in print turns us on. How does this argument work? What makes this such a brilliant persuasion technique? etc...

        I still think you'll be a great deal better off writing your own information products, there's so many thousands of niches to choose from, the choice is limited, only by your imagination.

        Choose a niche, write a tutorial, call it what you will and sell it either as a report or a full blown eBook. If the former, you can charge anything upto about $27 for each unit sold.

        If a full eBook, the sky is the limit and you'll make more money again by turning your tutorial into audio, dvds etc which might appeal to your artistic and creative side?

        Let's say you write an eBook for music bands, off the top of my head... How to Get the Highest Paying Gigs in the Industry by Sebastion ...

        You write the book which is all about positioning and effective promotion, it's 100 pages plus long as a PDF document, crammed full of hot marketing advice - what small band just starting out could fail to see the benefits of applying your specialized knowledge, to the market?

        You charge this out for let's say $100. Make 1000 sales and you've made close to $100k in profit.

        Turn it into an audio product and the price goes up further.

        Add a DVD and it goes up again. Include a monthly membership website on a domain and you make more money yet again.

        Simple.

        Either you can dither around incessantly hoping something will fall into your lap or take the action you need in your life... to move you to where you want to be.

        It's your choice. Nobody can make the decision for you.

        Fair enough, if you don't want to write out your own tutorials, go buy some.

        They cost mere cents in some places and with master resell rights you can often edit the product as you wish and call it your own. Saves one hec of a lot of time. Then promote it, sell it online, as a digital product.

        It's all incredibly easy. You just need to think logically and have a plan and stick with it until something works for you.

        As I said... if you need a serious kick up the backside, feel welcome to give me a shout. But be warned - I'm a very straight talker.

        All the best...
        Signature
        --->----->----->----->-----> MarkAndrews IMCopywriting <-----<-----<-----<-----<---
        http://www.IMCopywriting.com
        Mark@IMCopywriting.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        Originally Posted by Sebastion View Post

        I am definitely not good enough yet to be a published author of fiction.
        Come on dude...

        If Stephanie Meyer can do it with her craptacular writing, you'll be fine.

        Another example... JK Rowling. Hardly going ot win any literary awards, but she made enough money to buy her own country.

        Just sayin'.

        You said you're into self-help stuff... what happened to believing in yourself?

        -Daniel
        Signature

        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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        • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
          Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post


          Another example... JK Rowling. Hardly going ot win any literary awards, but she made enough money to buy her own country.
          1997 Nestlé Smarties Book Prize (Gold Award) (9-11 years category) Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1998 British Book Awards Children's Book of the Year Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1998 Carnegie Medal (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1998 Children's Book Award Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1998 Guardian Children's Fiction Prize (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1998 Nestlé Smarties Book Prize (Gold Award) (9-11 years category) Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


          1998 Primo Centro per la Letteratura Infantile (Italy) Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1998 Sheffield Children's Book Award Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1998 Whitbread Children's Book of the Year Award (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


          1998 Young Telegraph Paperback of the Year Award Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1999 British Book Awards Children's Book of the Year Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


          1999 Children's Book Award Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


          1999 Guardian Children's Fiction Prize (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


          1999 Nestlé Smarties Book Prize (Gold Award) (9-11 years category) Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban


          1999 Prix Sorciere (France) Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone


          1999 Scottish Arts Council Children's Book of the Year Award Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


          1999 Sheffield Children's Book of the Year Award (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


          1999 Whitbread Children's Book Award Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban


          2000 Carnegie Medal (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban


          2000 Children's Book Award (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban


          2000 Guardian Children's Fiction Prize (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban


          2000 Sheffield Children's Book of the Year Award (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban


          2001 Children's Book Award (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire


          2003 British Book Awards Book of the Year (shortlist) Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix


          2003 WH Smith People's Choice Award Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix


          2006 British Book Awards Book of the Year Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince


          2006 Royal Mail Award for Scottish Children's Books (best book for readers aged 8-12 years) Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince


          2008 South Bank Show Outstanding Achievement in the Arts Award

          Apart from those, of course

          Sorry, being pedantic.

          To the OP, copywriting is indeed a complex trade, far deeper than simply being able to write well. In fact, writing well is the icing on the cake.

          But that doesn't make it any less harder than making it as a novelist or fictional writer. Both have pros and cons, but I imagine that it would take you longer to get off the creative path and find a way onto the copywriting path, from a mindset and technical point of view.

          Either way, you'll need to learn how to market, so maybe copywriting will come later anyway, as a result of learning how to sell your work?
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        • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
          Good writer does not mean good at sales copy.

          John Grisham may not be able to write good sales copy
          but I have little doubt Mark Twain could.

          Telling a story in an interesting way is powerful, but if you
          can't close the story by enticing an action, all is lost.

          Not every great writer can write good sales copy and not
          every great copywriter can write a good novel.
          Signature




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      • Profile picture of the author Jess Alexander
        Originally Posted by Sebastion View Post


        I definitely do have a little fear of sacrificing art for money.
        Well, whatever you do, don't sacrifice your art for anything. If you try anything (selling your own products online, copywriting) always, always always make time for your art. Otherwise you will feel sixty when you are forty.

        If you can, make your schedule so that your most creative time is free for art. And secondarily, make time for your sideline attempt to start a business.

        Maybe you need some new friends who are making artistic work you respect? Or do you need to reconnect with old friends who you are too afraid to get in touch with because you are afraid of feeling the calling that art has for you?

        Do the things that make it come alive for you. Read the books that make you want to write beautiful things. Our soul-breaking things.

        You need to bring your soul back to life. Feed it the most beautiful things you can find. The things that used to make you come alive. What have you forgotten? What did you used to love?

        Read and do what makes you feel alive.

        Art is about connecting the earthly and the celestial worlds by living and working in both.

        So copywriting is more about being a salesman than a writer?
        You are getting it wrong. It is not about being a "salesman." It is about being invisible, so that all that can be seen is the desirability of the object for sale.

        Marx says, "A commodity appears at first sight an extremely obvious, trivial thing. But its analysis brings out that it is a very strange thing, abounding in metaphysical subtleties and theological niceties."

        A copywriter's job is to step back let the "metaphysical subtleties and theological niceties" glitter and gleam with all their desirable glamour.

        A copywriter spins yarns that makes a reader want whatever is on offer. The reason this is interesting and fulfilling is not necessarily cynical. Basically, one commodity can be exchanged for another in the mind of a prospect.

        Copywriting, first and foremost, is about understanding, triggering, and exploiting desire.


        I am definitely not good enough yet to be a published author of fiction. Non fiction perhaps. But I haven't thought that through either.
        I seem to recall that you have a few thousand pages of an "imaginary novel." The only way you can possibly be good enough to be published is if you have a novel to publish. Then you might be good enough to be published. Why not give it a shot. At least a page a day. One page per day = success = one page closer to possible publication. Go for it. Unless you want to bury your head in a hole and die withered and mindless, numbed out on whatever distraction you have chosen to cultivate instead of your life's calling.


        Basically I've been jumping around a few different career ideas, and I always come back to my writing skills to make a buck. I should probably focus on that.
        What do you most enjoy writing? You should probably focus on that. Make time for it every day. It is a requirement for you. It is what you are supposed to do with your life. Start small. Determine what the daily work must be to be considered a success. Build on these successes.

        And I repeat, associate with artists you respect.

        So if you see copywriting as a game, and laugh at your own wit and ability to influence...you can come to love copywriting?
        Hmm... You will come to love getting results by funneling the thoughts of a reader through an efficient structure, for a desired, measurable outcome. And getting paid to do it.

        A final note: Being an artist is not about bohemianism. It is about cultivating a life that provides the greatest possibility of your work coming alive. Then putting your energy into that work. And making it come alive.

        Do the minimum your art requires.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

      there is a massive difference between freelance writing and copywriting.
      However, if a copywriter thinks you have what it takes to join these ranks, chances are you do.

      We've just seen a little narrative from this guy, but he says his friend is a copywriter and called him "perfect" for creative ad copy. I think his friend probably knows him better than we do.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Collette
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        However, if a copywriter thinks you have what it takes to join these ranks, chances are you do.

        We've just seen a little narrative from this guy, but he says his friend is a copywriter and called him "perfect" for creative ad copy. I think his friend probably knows him better than we do.
        He's definitely got writing talent. Does he have marketing talent? Who knows?

        But he's going to have to have both, to be a copywriter.

        The world is lousy with writers who can't market themselves. That why crapholes like oDesk, Demand Studios, and the like exist. These places thrive on the 'starving artists' of the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
    Sebastion,

    I came from the academic writing world. Wrote articles, essays, etc. I even wrote poetry, fiction, etc., etc.

    This interview is worth listening to: Joe Vitale Interview

    Joe has a similar story. He was a lover of writing and found a way to make a lot of money while writing for that money... in copywriting.

    Anyway, we may not agree with Joe on his ethical approach to some markets and products... But the guy is sharp as a tack.

    All the best,

    Angel
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  • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
    Sebastian,

    Your post is an ad for, "Tell Sebastian About This Copywriting Gig." So far you have 13 'sales' in 182 views, or a 7% conversion rate. Bravo!

    Your writing style is engaging. You have a knack for using unusual phraseology without sounding contrived. That makes for copy that is memorable and sounds less like an ad.

    You naturally broke the post into digestible chunks. That keeps the reader moving along. A useful skill.

    I don't draw as much of a distinction between creative writing and copywriting as some do. Both are successful when they capture and hold interest through to the end.

    The difference is that in creative writing the dramatic tension is resolved by the writer. In copywriting the tension is resolved when the reader takes the action the copywriter has lead her to.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sebastion
      And this is your first post! Thanks.

      I feel you guys. We all love writing. I know the real writer is the one who shuts up an writes.

      Copy writer, essay writer, novelist, journalist...when does one decide!

      The thing that fascinates me about copy is the ability to turn words into dollars. I do find the human psychology aspect intriguing.

      I can see how learning copy would greatly benefit fiction writing.

      I really need to work on focus.... I'm too old for this.

      Though I've come a long way in other areas of my life. I can get this writing thing handled too!

      I honestly don't practice writing nearly enough. If I want to be a pro, I really need to step up and write LOTS.

      Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

      Sebastian,

      Your post is an ad for, "Tell Sebastian About This Copywriting Gig." So far you have 13 'sales' in 182 views, or a 7% conversion rate. Bravo!

      Your writing style is engaging. You have a knack for using unusual phraseology without sounding contrived. That makes for copy that is memorable and sounds less like an ad.

      You naturally broke the post into digestible chunks. That keeps the reader moving along. A useful skill.

      I don't draw as much of a distinction between creative writing and copywriting as some do. Both are successful when they capture and hold interest through to the end.

      The difference is that in creative writing the dramatic tension is resolved by the writer. In copywriting the tension is resolved when the reader takes the action the copywriter has lead her to.
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