Desperate for conversions - Is it the Copy of the Product? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

13 years ago

You have to realize that when people see the word debt on a sales letter and are actually in debt, most would internalize their critical thinking voice and say, "why would I want to put myself in more debt". So not only do you have to absolutely crush it with the copy / offer you have to communicate 100000x more return value relative to your asking price.

I would spend the money and hire a copywriter if you really plan to make this product work. 700 impressions is a lot of wasted time and $, think of what you could have invested that in already!

Hope that helps,

Ross

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pseudonymble

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross James

I would spend the money and hire a copywriter if you really plan to make this product work. 700 impressions is a lot of wasted time and $, think of what you could have invested that in already!

Hope that helps,

Ross

Thanks Ross
I appreciate the reply

Any suggestions on a warrior has the copy writing skills required?
Anyone you would personally use?

Thanks
2 replies

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Collette

13 years ago

I don't have time right now for anything very detailed, but I've written for this market, and here's two things the IMMEDIATELY jumped out at me:

- Use of the word "default". People don't take on debt intending to default. They truly believe - at the time they incur the debt - that they will be able to meet their money obligations. (Note: This may, or may not, be based in reality. That's not the point, right now)

And when debtors are overwhelmed by debt, they still don't want to "default". They want to get relief.

They DON'T think of eliminating or reducing their debt as "defaulting" on what they owe. In fact, most people would recoil if you suggested they're 'defaulters'. The word has very negative connotations; it implies 'deadbeat'. And few people choose to think of themselves as 'a deadbeat'.

This is a KEY reason why so many people simply shut down when they get in trouble. If they're already in trouble, they are - to some extent or other - already IN default. Which means - to some extent or other - they are already 'a deadbeat'.

Use 'default' in your copy, and you're simply reminding the reader that he is, or intends to be, a deadbeat.

- This copy is a classic example of a copywriter trying to write for the search engines FIRST, and the reader second. And a classic example of why it is impossible to write good sales copy like this.

The keywording is clumsy to the point of making the damn thing unreadable. I didn't bother going past the first screen. I suspect most of your readers don't get much farther than I did.

The search engines may like this copy. Readers will not.

Result: Your sales suck.

If your copy is properly written, it should naturally contain enough of your search terms to get some SEO love. But you cannot write good sales copy that is 'keyword-based', and expect it to also be smoothly persuasive.

Pick one or the other. you can't have both.

This product should be selling gangbusters, particularly now. Granted, the product name should be changed. However, if you're not making sales, it's not the product, at this stage. It's the copy.

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ARSuarez

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

- Use of the word "default". People don't take on debt intending to default. They truly believe - at the time they incur the debt - that they will be able to meet their money obligations. (Note: This may, or may not, be based in reality. That's not the point, right now)

And when debtors are overwhelmed by debt, they still don't want to "default". They want to get relief.

They DON'T think of eliminating or reducing their debt as "defaulting" on what they owe. In fact, most people would recoil if you suggested they're 'defaulters'. The word has very negative connotations; it implies 'deadbeat'. And few people choose to think of themselves as 'a deadbeat'.

This is a KEY reason why so many people simply shut down when they get in trouble. If they're already in trouble, they are - to some extent or other - already IN default. Which means - to some extent or other - they are already 'a deadbeat'.

Use 'default' in your copy, and you're simply reminding the reader that he is, or intends to be, a deadbeat.

If the OP reads the Brian Keith Voiles ad I posted, he'll see this trend.

The word "default" made me cringe.

Despite what some think, a person doesn't go overwhelmingly into debt so that he can find a loophole out of it. That's the wrong angle.

In the ad, Voiles specifically inserted a piece of copy stating...

"The banks and financial companies have stacked the deck in their favor…"

and...

"Don’t even think about trying to be a “Boy Scout” and pay off all your debts without a fight.
That’s very noble of you – but you’ve got to realize that you’re in over your head with these professional con-men, and they are going to put the knuckles down on you HARD!"

Why?

Well, for one... You can't feel guilty when you find a way to "stick it" to the folks who set you up. They're menacing, scheming Wall Street hucksters who organized everything to screw you.

Also notice how often he mentions "ethics" and "100% ethically" throughout the ad. People still have some resistance, on a "moral" level, to what feels like stealing.

My 2c.

Best,

Angel

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Ross James 13 years ago

Originally Posted by pseudonymble

Thanks Ross
I appreciate the reply

Any suggestions on a warrior has the copy writing skills required?
Anyone you would personally use?

If money wasn't an issue, the guy that posted above me would have your missed impressions from previous traffic coming back asking for forgiveness, begging for the sale, but that requires tough positioning.

-Ross
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travlinguy

13 years ago

There are lots of issues with this presentation. I'll start with credibility, especially the "Three Reasons I'm Qualified..." thingy. Do you really think anyone will be impressed with:

I used to have friends in the Department of Education. I know exactly how the organization operates.

That ain't gonna cut it and the other two are nearly as lame.

Another thing I noticed is that the headline is too long. If you can really do what you claim keep it to the point with something like:

Completely Eliminate Your Student Loans Without Repaying Them! 100% Legal!

Then give them a bit more with your sub. The way you have it now you're trying to tell them too much and not saying much of anything.

If you can do what you claim this thing should be selling like crazy. But to get there you're copy is going to need a lot of work. Seriously consider hiring a copywriter. Good luck.

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247Copywriter 13 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

If you can do what you claim this thing should be selling like crazy. But to get there you're copy is going to need a lot of work.

To the OP...

I completely agree with Travlinguy, this thing has the potential to sell like gangbusters IF you get this sales copy one hell of a lot more, tightened up.

Your headline IS way too long. Consider the headline like a doorway to your offer. At the moment this 'door' is very difficult to open and doesn't say a fat lot to entice me to keep on reading.

Make the door, your headline a lot easier to open by shortening it massively. Make it benefit driven with a strong compelling reason to entice me to want to dig further into your irresistible offer.

One last point, keep your selling language very simple.
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ARSuarez

13 years ago

This is one of the first letters I ever dissected:

http://www.hardtofindads.com/upload/...f/debtbook.PDF

It was written by Brian Keith Voiles in a similar category - getting rid of debt.

I'd read that carefully and check out some of the very intricately woven objection handling copy.

Best,

Angel

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Raydal

13 years ago

As was mentioned before, lack of credibility is a BIG factor with
your letter and addition to those things that have already been
mentioned there are no testimonials.

The copy definitely needs tightening but also because you are
making such an INCREDIBLY unbelievable claim then the onus
is on you to give a TON OF PROOF.

-Ray Edwards

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Marvin Johnston

13 years ago

Another criteria for evaluating your visitors you didn't mention is the time they spend on the page. When making changes, that would be a nice thing to be able to compare.

Not related to the copy, but your second screen shown (after closing the first screen and choosing cancel) required me to do a horizontal scroll to see some of the information. Your analytics should show if this is a problem or not.

Marvin

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

You've had some great advice here. Few things - there's no real hook. This just looks and smells like a "paint-by-numbers" salespage and it fails. Grab your reader by the you-know-whats from the start. Don't try and cram in a whole lot of stuff that noone has time to read. Don't list fifteen million bullet points. Try 7 at the most - and make sure they're killer. And please, take that old chestnut "and much much more!" out the back and shoot it - along with "Who else wants". And don't try and bribe me with your crappy Bonuses. "Relieve Stress" - WTF. You're adding to my stress.

Instead of the graphic of the smiling arms-crossed dude - whack up a shot of a contrite-looking guy. With a headline like -

I'm an ex-loans officer and I have a confession...

"I Used to Heavy Guys Just Like You Over Your Student Loan Debt
I'd Force You Into Giving Me Your Credit Card Details Over the Phone to Pay Your Education Debts

Then I'd Slam-Dunk You...Wipe You Out...I Didn't Care

But I feel terrible about it. So here's what I'm gonna do to make good...

I'm spilling the beans on how blah blah blah

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sierracharlie

13 years ago

You give absolutely no free information away. Not one free .pdf file in sight.
Consumers want a sample of your knowledge first. Why do you think so many big publishing houses give away a free chapter of their titles.

You are basically shouting to potential customers "pick me, pick me"

Illustrate your knowledge, don't tell them about it.

And why the Gold Lettering up at the top of the page - this looks to me like a font used for an online casino. Tone it down.

Thanks

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davemiz

13 years ago

LOL.... am i the only one seeing this???

you're trying to sell a product to ppl who have no money and are trying to get out of paying for something they cant.

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pseudonymble 13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

LOL.... am i the only one seeing this???

you're trying to sell a product to ppl who have no money and are trying to get out of paying for something they cant.

Just because they can't pay their student loan off does not mean they don't have money?
Not much different from all the shovel salesmen around here selling products to people with no money, looking to make money online.
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- 247Copywriter 13 years ago
  
  The Copy Nazi (Mal - Metronicity) has given you an excellent storyline.
  
  Creating a story like this is extremely good.
  
  Your readers will empathize with the main character in the storyline and the offer will become a lot more believable. Which will help your credibility and trust. Vitally important assets in copywriting.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  --->----->----->----->-----> MarkAndrews IMCopywriting <-----<-----<-----<-----<---
  http://www.IMCopywriting.com
  Mark@IMCopywriting.com
  
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quiescen

13 years ago

Hi Pseudo,

Just looked and I have to say I disagree with most of the copywriters here. I have the problem you're trying to solve in your sales letter and your headline and deck copy all got me to read further - which is exactly what it's supposed to do!

Now ... my advice. Scratch the bonuses. It actually cheapens your main offering. I don't care about bonuses. I just want to clean up the debt mess.

Now, here's what I think you should do. Build a squeeze page and capture the email addresses of your visitors. Offer a sample chapter of your book. Then, if the info is good, they'll be more inclined to shell over the $39 you ask for. And you can keep marketing to them until they do.

But, if you don't want to go that route, make it a cheap $7 ebook offer and you will sell many, many ebooks!

P.S. I would also tweak your current headline to this:

Now You Can Completely Wipe Away Your Federal Student Loan And End Your
Financial Nightmare … Guaranteed!"

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pseudonymble 13 years ago

So I spent a could of days rewriting the sales page

Please let me know if you guys think I am headed in the right direction.
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pseudonymble

13 years ago

I had someone redo the sales copy.
Here is what we have so far

www.thedefaultsystem.com

Anyone want to offer up some suggestions on this?
I would love to hear more ideas.

Crafting as we speak.

Thanks
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sethczerepak 13 years ago

You're losing money by not hiring someone to redo this...a good copywriter ought to be able to make your investment back in 10 sales or less. So why keep throwing money away?

Three things:

1) Lose the fancy header

2) Make the message from you to the reader, not referring to yourself in the third person

3) Redo the copy using the techniques in these two free books...

Free Copywriting Mini-Course | Cashflow Copywriting

Or, you can save yourself a lot of time (which equals money) and get someone to do it who knows how to sell.
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Pusateri

13 years ago

The centered text tires the eyes. It's very 1996.

If you absolutely can't hire a copywriter, you will need to do some serious reading about the craft.

Try rewriting it as a personal letter to a friend who needs the help your product offers. That should give you something to build on.

Thanks
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pseudonymble

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

The centered text tires the eyes. It's very 1996.

If you absolutely can't hire a copywriter, you will need to do some serious reading about the craft.

Try rewriting it as a personal letter to a friend who needs the help your product offers. That should give you something to build on.

I did hire a copywriter.
This is what he gave me..

Thanks
2 replies

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Pusateri

13 years ago

Originally Posted by pseudonymble

I did hire a copywriter.
This is what he gave me..

Oh man, that really sucks. I know you were hoping for some tweaks and pointers when you posted the rewrite, but there's so much wrong here its hard to even start.

Seriously, try rewriting as if you were trying to convince your best friend to buy the product because you know it will help him. Tell your story. Be personal. Be real. Then post that here and we should have something to work with.

Mark

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pseudonymble

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Oh man, that really sucks. I know you were hoping for some tweaks and pointers when you posted the rewrite, but there's so much wrong here its hard to even start.

Seriously, try rewriting as if you were trying to convince your best friend to buy the product because you know it will help him. Tell your story. Be personal. Be real. Then post that here and we should have something to work with.

Mark

Yeah, it does suck.
This guy sounded like he knew what he was doing. Backed up all of his creds with examples. Then this..

uhg..

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ARSuarez 13 years ago

Originally Posted by pseudonymble

I did hire a copywriter.
This is what he gave me..

Holy cow. Hunt that copywriter down and skin him alive.

That copy is a train wreck.

We'll take turns throwing copies of "Tested Advertising Methods" at him.

Best,

Angel
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Fibonacci

13 years ago

The very first thing I'd point out, even without visiting the website is your desperation. Being desperate only creates more reasons to be desperate. It is much easier to succeed in anything if you don’t want it so much. Let it go.

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Len Bailey

13 years ago

Copy, font, and centering issues aside ... The absolute first thing I'd do is make the order buttons easy to see. Even if the copy were top-notch, you're going to lose your prospect if you make him or her work to buy.

After that, I'd fix the centering ... then start working on fixing the actual words.

Hope this helps,

Len

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JeffreyKang 13 years ago

Scrap everything and start over.

With sales letters like these, you should really be getting traffic from sources other than search results - paid traffic, jvs.

Avoid writing keywords throughout your sales page unless it speaks to your customers and gets them to buy.

The only things that should be on that page are the necessary words that get prospects to buy. Everything else are distractions.

Your sales letter is the same thing as if you were a salesman selling a car. What would you say? What questions are they going to ask you? Answer those as directly as possible, in an unordered list.

- Eliminate all of your student loan debt in half the time.
- 3 Easy Tips to lower your interest rates in the next 10 minutes.

If no one is buying, try giving them a 7 day free trial so they can see it, try it out, and you get paid.
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Desperate for conversions - Is it the Copy of the Product?

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