Focus Of What You Sell -- Mostly Self-Help?

Believe you me... a lot of the more experienced copywriters here are getting tired of seeing this huge amount of rubbish too.

You're not the only one that thinks a lot of it is spammy crap. This is also why you rarely see the pro copywriters these days offering critiques.

When I used to just read this forum, going back a while, a lot of the conversations taking place were of a much higher quality. Sure, there were many heated arguments too but that's just the nature of the game.

If you dig around you'll find many of these professional copywriters have written sales letters for all manner of tangible, real products.

It's a shame that of late it's gone so far downhill. The forum today is nothing compared to what it used to be like when you could pick up real nuggets of copywriting advice on a daily basis, from the masters of persuasion.

The greatest shame is, it's still heading rapidly downhill. And the number of serious buyers here has decreased massively. It seems anyone and everyone these days is just looking for a free quick shortcut answer / solution when there is none.

All of these top copywriters on this forum deserve better is my honest opinion. There are too many newbies now spouting bad advice after just reading a post or two or thinking they're an expert after reading a book or two.

That's my take on the current situation.

To me, it looks like mostly Internet Marketing stuff, with a good bit of self help, a good bit of health and fitness, a good bit of relationship, and a smattering of "other."

You've got to remember, you're on a board -- i.e. Warrior Forum -- designed to be a community for at-home Internet marketers. You aren't going to see a lot of copy for microprocessors here because there aren't microprocessor manufacturers soliciting copy on work-at-home message boards.

This isn't a site for copywriters -- it's a site for Internet Marketers. Which means it's a *market* for copywriters, but a very specific one.

There are guys here (on the copywriting board, that is) who do work for all kinds of industries, but if this is where you're looking, IM/self-help/heath/relationships is what you're mostly going to see.

I don't know about "neon," but you're certainly going to see a lot of what you seem to be calling "spammy."

Do you know what spam is? It's unwanted, unsolicited advertising.

Do you know why what you're seeing strikes you as "spammy?" Because you don't want it, and you didn't ask for it. Therefore, you have no interest in it.

But that's part of the game. We can't afford to care what the people who aren't the target demo think.

Because it's funny...no matter how "snobbish" a prospect believes him or herself, they still tend to respond to the same sorts of devices, persuasion tactics, and sales pitches...with one caveat...

...they don't respond until the pitch is relevant to them.

As soon as you have a passion about something so strong that it commands your thoughts all day long...or maybe a problem you're lying awake at night trembling over with night terrors...your radar goes on.

You start actively SEEKING big, bright, loud signals telling you, LOOK HERE! HERE'S SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS! HERE'S THE *PERFECT* INFORMATION FOR YOU, AT *EXACTLY* THE MOMENT YOU NEED IT!

The secret is that ALL copy is, as you say, "tailored to motivated buyers."

If that big, eye-catching headline you detest isn't quite so big or quite so eye-catching, you -- when YOU have that undying passion or that unsolvable problem --might not see it. You might not start reading, and you might not discover my message.

And when you -- the right prospect at the right moment -- see that message, you don't see "spammy."

As long as I've done my job as a copywriter, what you see is the most interesting, most relevant, most compelling thing you've read all week.

When that happens, you stop worrying about it being "silly" or "naive," and you sure as hell stop worrying about being "discerning."


In a nutshell, even the best sales message looks blah until it's something you need, then it looks like manna from heaven.

I co-own a small publishing house. We make real books, mostly limited editions, covering Texas history.

I promise you, none of of that spammy crap would fly with our clientele. Old wildcatters would call me salty names and question my lineage. What's worse, they wouldn't buy the damn books.

I use mostly storytelling copy and it works well. Of course, the product lends itself to that. It's an emotional sell.

I'm new here and had hoped for some more sophisticated discussions about the psychology of persuasion.

What's the quote? about all that's necessary for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing?

I guess if we want better discussions we need to start them.

This forum follows Pareto, like many things. Here you have:

80% posers contributing nothing but worthless or damaging opinions and 20% copywriters contributing to valuable discussion

80% broke noobs seeking free advice and 20% genuine businesses seeking good copywriters

The problem is, discerning the noobs from the copywriters. Those of us that have been here for year know who is who or quickly figure it out. Many don't know the difference.

80/20 RULE ABIDES!

HA - That's so funny you post that, I just watched a huge TV / Documentary on Loyd and Jeff Bridges last night. They have a boutique shop setup selling only lebowski swag, I didn't catch the city because I tuned in too late.

-Ross

I am on a famous seduction forum and I'm one of the famous posters. I went there to help myself. After awhile I noticed all the people I respected seemed to disappear and were replaced by bigmouth newbs. I have since stopped posting.

But there is always a crop of new heroes.