Carlton Part 1: Hear what John thinks of the Warrior Forum

13 years ago

Unable to listen in. Keep getting an error message telling me to install missing plugins.

I've got the latest version of Apple Quicktime 7.

Click on install missing plugin's and one just gets taken to the Apple Quicktime download page.

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Ross James

13 years ago

Originally Posted by 247Copywriter

Unable to listen in. Keep getting an error message telling me to install missing plugins.

I've got the latest version of Apple Quicktime 7.

Click on install missing plugin's and one just gets taken to the Apple Quicktime download page.

The actual interview with John is a little down the page just before the fold. You'll see it, it's a compact flash player.

-Ross

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ewenmack 13 years ago

Kevin,

Those bullets letting us know what's waiting for us
in the interview are a lesson in themselves...

..Golden.

Thank you.

Ewen
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247Copywriter 13 years ago

Didn't scroll far enough then.

Thanks Ross.
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- Kevin Rogers 13 years ago
  
  Glad you're finding value in it, everyone.
  
  He goes off like I've never heard before in these calls. Even weighs in on the "blind copy" debate at one point.
  
  More coming soon.
  
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  KingOfContentMarketing 13 years ago
  
  Really interesting. "Capitalistic splendor!"
  
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  Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
  - Jack Trout
  
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davemiz

13 years ago

lol.... thought posting affiliate links was a no go here...

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Kevin Rogers 13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

lol.... thought posting affiliate links was a no go here...

Is it? Don't want to be that guy. I'll remove it.
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The Copy Nazi Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

lol.... thought posting affiliate links was a no go here...

Yes, it most definitely is. As are "advertising messages". ;-)
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Ross James

13 years ago

(5) No Affiliate Links Allowed - Promote Your Own Domain/s Only. It's either this or we have to cut out sig files altogether which we do not want to do.

An affiliate link would look like this:

Code:

clickbank/hop=kevinrogers

So I don't see how you posting your own domain breaks any rules, we're marketers, there is a good chance there may be an affiliate link on our own domains.

-Ross

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross James

(5) No Affiliate Links Allowed - Promote Your Own Domain/s Only. It's either this or we have to cut out sig files altogether which we do not want to do.

An affiliate link would look like this:

Code:

clickbank/hop=kevinrogers

So I don't see how you posting your own domain breaks any rules, we're marketers, there is a good chance there may be an affiliate link on our own domains.

-Ross

I had posted one for the Action Seminar, Ross. Wasn't hip to the rules. I took it down.

Doesn't matter. I'm much more interested in passing along good content.

Be a shame if it turns into a rules fight.

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Ross James

13 years ago

Shame on you Kevin, what were you thinking? Here I am defending you..

But honestly, it's either love or hate here, there really isn't a middle ground.. Which is ok! Makes things a little interesting.

-Ross

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GR Marketing

13 years ago

Thanks for such an incredible share. You could have charged money for this easily, and I would have paid.

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Marc Rodill

13 years ago

Johnny Casino tells it like it is. Thanks for the dirt.

PS. I dig your haircut.

PPS. Many low priced seminars this year... Need to quit rat race ASAP.

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Johnny12345

13 years ago

Kevin,

Could we please have a download link instead of (or in addition to) an online player?

Thanks,

John

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davemiz

13 years ago

personally i don't care if you've got it, but i thought they nuked all posts with aff links for years... heck you maybe should buy some ad space above... a banner that shows only on this thread.

not sure if its got that ability... but then you've got your affiliate link problem solved.

would also make the forum pretty interesting...

you post a good quality post.... then your banner shows at the top of the thread.... allen would bank on this... the forum would get good quality posts (they'd have to be screened for quality)

just thinkin outloud.

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studioprod

13 years ago

Who the heck is John Carlton? His bio reads like that of someone who wants to remain anonymous. No agencies are big campaigns are listed in his bio. Hey, I've been in ad agencies for years and the one thing all the creatives do is trumpet their account successes. When you hear names like Claude Hopkins, Bruce Barton, Rosser Reeves, David Ogilvy and Jerry Della Femina, you know which campaigns they created. I see none of that proud disclosure from Carlton. If he had the professional chops you think he'd flaunt it.

In the advertising business, you're only as good as the campaigns you worked on. If he was more than another slick online huckster/seminar operator, he'd be proudly pointing to his successes. It would appear that his major successes are in drawing hopeful writers into his pricey courses.

For the money he's asking for, I'd want less oily and more specific than a "succesful behind-the-scenes multi-million dollar writer."

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by studioprod

Who the heck is John Carlton? His bio reads like that of someone who wants to remain anonymous. No agencies are big campaigns are listed in his bio. Hey, I've been in ad agencies for years and the one thing all the creatives do is trumpet their account successes. When you hear names like Claude Hopkins, Bruce Barton, Rosser Reeves, David Ogilvy and Jerry Della Femina, you know which campaigns they created. I see none of that proud disclosure from Carlton. If he had the professional chops you think he'd flaunt it.

In the advertising business, you're only as good as the campaigns you worked on. If he was more than another slick online huckster/seminar operator, he'd be proudly pointing to his successes. It would appear that his major successes are in drawing hopeful writers into his pricey courses.

For the money he's asking for, I'd want less oily and more specific than a "succesful behind-the-scenes multi-million dollar writer."

Idiot, and you are an idiot...before you open your big dumb mouth any more go Google "Gary Halbert & John Carlton". BTW this is an Internet Marketing Copywriters forum. I think you'll find we don't have a whole lot in common with your Mad Men-type advertising agency huckster writers. We live and die by our trade. We're accountable. More like direct response writers. And the elite amongst us - like John Carlton - can command $30k a letter plus 20% of the action of Million Dollar online campaigns (which is quite possibly the future of damn-near all advertising). Does your ad agency hack see that kind of money?

But really...your ignorance is breathtaking. Now bugger off and learn some manners. You and your "I've been in ad agencies for years". Doing what, I wonder? Changing the toilet-rolls in the John? Actually - that was one of my duties when I started at JWT at 16. That and a whole lot of other lowly tasks. But I learnt quite a bit about advertising by keeping my mouth shut and just watching and learning. You'd be wise to do the same.

Tally-ho!

The Copy Nazi
"No copy for you!"

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Kevin Rogers 13 years ago

Ahhhhh, hahahahahahahaha!

Man, that was fun. The Nazi strikes!
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Zero

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Idiot, and you are an idiot...before you open your big dumb mouth any more go Google "Gary Halbert & John Carlton". BTW this is an Internet Marketing Copywriters forum. I think you'll find we don't have a whole lot in common with your Mad Men-type advertising agency huckster writers. We live and die by our trade. We're accountable. More like direct response writers. And the elite amongst us - like John Carlton - can command $30k a letter plus 20% of the action of Million Dollar online campaigns (which is quite possibly the future of damn-near all advertising). Does your ad agency hack see that kind of money?

But really...your ignorance is breathtaking. Now bugger off and learn some manners. You and your "I've been in ad agencies for years". Doing what, I wonder? Changing the toilet-rolls in the John? Actually - that was one of my duties when I started at JWT at 16. That and a whole lot of other lowly tasks. But I learnt quite a bit about advertising by keeping my mouth shut and just watching and learning. You'd be wise to do the same.

Tally-ho!

The Copy Nazi
"No copy for you!"

Ouch. I wouldn't show my face on here ever again if i got that kinda tounge lashing.

Looking forward to the interview. I love listenin to anythin John Carlton.

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Ross James 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Zero

Ouch. I wouldn't show my face on here ever again if i got that kinda tounge lashing.
Looking forward to the interview. I love listenin to anythin John Carlton.

You'd just be shooting yourself in the foot by letting your EGO get in the way of your success. I think that's in the handbook somewhere.

-Ross
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- Zero 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Ross James
  
  You'd just be shooting yourself in the foot by letting your EGO get in the way of your success. I think that's in the handbook somewhere.
  
  -Ross
  
  Maybe you're right, but that ignorant attack on John Carlton is going to live with him for a long time. Boy that is pretty embarassing.
  
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  Collette 13 years ago
  
  Nice bullet lesson, Kevin...
  
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  Bruce Wedding 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Collette
  
  Nice bullet lesson, Kevin...
  
  I thought the exact same thing. Making mountains out of molehills. It's what we do
  
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  Collette 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding
  
  ...Making mountains out of molehills. It's what we do
  
  Now there's a killer tagline for a plastic surgeon...
  
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Ross James

13 years ago

Originally Posted by studioprod

Who the heck is John Carlton? His bio reads like that of someone who wants to remain anonymous. No agencies are big campaigns are listed in his bio. Hey, I've been in ad agencies for years and the one thing all the creatives do is trumpet their account successes. When you hear names like Claude Hopkins, Bruce Barton, Rosser Reeves, David Ogilvy and Jerry Della Femina, you know which campaigns they created. I see none of that proud disclosure from Carlton. If he had the professional chops you think he'd flaunt it.

In the advertising business, you're only as good as the campaigns you worked on. If he was more than another slick online huckster/seminar operator, he'd be proudly pointing to his successes. It would appear that his major successes are in drawing hopeful writers into his pricey courses.

For the money he's asking for, I'd want less oily and more specific than a "succesful behind-the-scenes multi-million dollar writer."

You remind me of how stupidly clever I was when I first heard about this forum and the people behind direct response marketing. It wasn't even that long ago, I'd like to say I was lucky enough to have not pissed off the nazi when I first started. However, I know there was a couple people I did PISS off when I first started "spouting off at the mouth" and probably still do, sorry. Let this be a lesson to you in the same way that it was to me; get more involved, find out what makes these guys tick, model them, learn what it's all about. You won't regret it if you like writing for a profit!

Best,

Ross

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Alex Cohen 13 years ago

studioprod,

Your post reminds me of something a now-departed good friend used to say, "That's stupidity turned to seed!".

On the one hand, we don't put anyone on a pedestal and think he/she can do no wrong. On the other, we respect those who have proven themselves over the years. And John has.

Why didn't you at least do a Google search before you posted? That would have answered your question and saved you a lot of needless embarrassment.

Alex
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Collette

13 years ago

I feel where you're coming from, studioprod, and (as a friend of mine would say), I'm not trying to be a dick, but... here's my feedback for you:

Originally Posted by studioprod

Who the heck is John Carlton? His bio reads like that of someone who wants to remain anonymous.

In the world of Direct Response and Internet Marketing, John is anything BUT anonymous. He's been around for years, and he's been known in Direct Response - and respected - for years.

Originally Posted by studioprod

No agencies are big campaigns are listed in his bio.

The world of Direct Response and Internet Marketing doesn't care about agency campaigns (which are mostly focused on creating 'award-winning' brand creative).

Originally Posted by studioprod

Hey, I've been in ad agencies for years and the one thing all the creatives do is trumpet their account successes. When you hear names like Claude Hopkins, Bruce Barton, Rosser Reeves, David Ogilvy and Jerry Della Femina, you know which campaigns they created. I see none of that proud disclosure from Carlton. If he had the professional chops you think he'd flaunt it.

Not if ad agencies are not his target market. And they're not.

Originally Posted by studioprod

In the advertising business, you're only as good as the campaigns you worked on...

In the Direct Response business you're only good as the money your clients make from your copy.

Many Direct Response clients don't want the copywriter to use the work in their portfolio, because they're afraid their killer copywriter will get stolen by another company.

And, frankly, companies that use Direct Response advertising don't give a fly's fart about 'award-winning campaigns'. Their focus is entirely on the ROI.

However, if you had the budget to hire John and you asked him for verifiable Direct Response references, he'd have NO problem supplying them.

Originally Posted by studioprod

If he was more than another slick online huckster/seminar operator, he'd be proudly pointing to his successes. It would appear that his major successes are in drawing hopeful writers into his pricey courses.

One of John's offline letters for Men's Health magazine is a classic example of brilliant control. His golf work is legendary.

Furthermore, his entry into the copywriting course/seminar stuff is relatively new. For years, he's been 'just a copywriter', and the only stuff he sold was for his clients.

Originally Posted by studioprod

For the money he's asking for, I'd want less oily and more specific than a "succesful behind-the-scenes multi-million dollar writer."

You're assuming he's aiming to a cold market, as a typical agency ad campaign would. He's not.

The people John is talking to already know his calibre, or they have been referred by someone who does. Also, if your experience to advertising copy has been limited to agency-type advertising, you're going to view much of Internet Marketing copy as "oily" or "hyped". Especially Internet Marketing copy. 'Tis what 'tis...

The copy for his seminar is relevant to his market. Trust me - John knows the avatar of his paying clients. He's not writing to everybody. His copy will immediately weed out the non-prospects, and get on with the business of persuading the real prospects.

So, is John's Action Seminar for everyone?

Nope.

Will it turn everyone who attends into a multi-million dollar copywriter? Or even a million-dollar copywriter?

Nope, again.

If you know nothing/very little about direct response copywriting, or copywriting, in general, will you be transformed into a Direct Response copy star by the end of the seminar?

Since much of the material may be over your head, Probably Not.

If you already have some solid copywriting chops and want to take a quantum leap in your education, will John's seminar help you do that?

Absolutely.

In summary: The world of agency-type advertising rarely prepares you for direct response. And if you haven't been swimming in the Internet Market ocean before, you will probably not recognize most of the big fish in it. In fact, you may mistake a tuna for a shark.

That's understandable. However, remember...

... teh Google is your friend.

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David Maschke

13 years ago

I nearly fell over when he started describing the the business opportunity market. That was pure gold. (Everyone wants to use dog training and golf in their examples.)

I had to sign up at the cliff-hanger.

by the way, you have a great voice.

Is John Carlton a newbie here or something?

Never heard of him.

Just kidding. He's great as always.

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Ross James

13 years ago

I think it's safe to say John will probably laugh at this, go back to being the rebel rockstar businessman that he is, continue to seem underground to the rest of the world, and never have it cross his mind again(if he reads it)... The other guy will probably go back to work, tell all of his coworkers about this thread and for the rest of his life TRY to do what John has done and continues to do ... I don't see how it's embarrassing? If anything, I would feel more jealous!

-Ross

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clever7

13 years ago

It would really be better if we could simply read this interview because listening takes more time. I listened to the beginning. Very interesting.

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

Can we have a new rule here please - "No clueless idiots allowed to post".

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Collette 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Can we have a new rule here please - "No clueless idiots allowed to post".

Then from whence would I get my morning SPLORT? :p
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BrianMcLeod

13 years ago

"What John Carlton Needs To Do"
by Anonymous Agency Creative #112

1) List more agencies and consumer brand campaigns in your bio in order to prove your bona-fides as a veteran direct-response copywriter.

2) Flaunt your successes, just like Bruce Barton and David Ogilvy are known for doing.

3) Reposition your entire business strategy so that it makes immediate sense to anonymous agency creatives who have never heard of you before.

Duly noted...

Pure comedy gold.

By the way... how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

That's worth at least two in the bush.

Brian

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Nick Brighton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Can we have a new rule here please - "No clueless idiots allowed to post".

As long as you stick to the original rules - no insulting other members.

Although I agree with the general consensus, there's no need for name calling.

Here's what I find interesting about this thread...

1. You have people try to knock Kevin's efforts, and question a master's experience (without even using Google before the foot goes in the mouth.)

2. You have people who can't even be bothered to listen to a 15 min interview, even though it's pure gold from the start, and delivers so much value that directly relates to their trade.

3. You have people who can't stand seeing profit or gain in return for such quality content.

4. You have professionals who turn into aggressive fan boys at the slightest hint of a counter argument.

What a diverse place this really is.

Thanks
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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

As long as you stick to the original rules - no insulting other members.

Although I agree with the general consensus, there's no need for name calling.

Here's what I find interesting about this thread...

1. You have people try to knock Kevin's efforts, and question a master's experience (without even using Google before the foot goes in the mouth.)

2. You have people who can't even be bothered to listen to a 15 min interview, even though it's pure gold from the start, and delivers so much value that directly relates to their trade.

3. You have people who can't stand seeing profit or gain in return for such quality content.

4. You have professionals who turn into aggressive fan boys at the slightest hint of a counter argument.

What a diverse place this really is.

Mister seven posts above insulted a respected member of both this forum and the copywriting community in general. I wasn't about to let that pass.

"No need for name calling" - yes there is - when they are complete idiots.

"Professionals turning into aggressive fan boys at the slightest hint of a counter argument" - WTF? It's just normal behaviour for this part of the forum. You might have noticed we're passionate about our craft - and passionate in our arguments. I see nothing wrong with that at all. In fact - go and drop in on your Westminster parliament and tell me what you see.

"What a diverse place this really is" - quite. So we don't all have to carry on as perhaps you'd like us to - in the manner of an old-school English gentleman perhaps - "I say old chap...steady on...that's not quite cricket. Rather bad form wouldn't you say?"

One thing we do in copywriting is call a spade a spade - not "a digging implement". You dig? So I'll call it as I see it. An idiot is still an idiot. New member with 7 posts nonwithstanding. (And I note all posts were made in the last two days. I also note that he isn't in the ad game at all - he "represent(s) a high-end design studio servicing gilt-edge clients". He also lists his occupation as "professional artist" even though he would have us believe he's "been in Boston advertising agencies for decades").

Carry on.

"Who the heck is John Carlton?"

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davemiz

13 years ago

first i agree with the lashing he got.... well deserved lol, but you guys have the wrong idea of 'ad agencies'

you think these copywriters suck?

you think they don't know wtf they're doing?

how on earth do you think these agencies stay open?

how on earth do you think big brands become big?

lol some of these guys and gals make more than several of you combined yearly.... some of them are responsible for selling BILLIONS of dollars.

i have friends who are copywriters at big big agencies worldwide, and, sorry to tell you guys this, but they'd smoke 90% of you guys in their sleep....

they don't measure the same way we do, but when their clients see billions in sales, you kinda know you did good stuff.

sorry, just the comments on ad agencies are comical.

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

first i agree with the lashing he got.... well deserved lol, but you guys have the wrong idea of 'ad agencies'

you think these copywriters suck?

you think they don't know wtf they're doing?

how on earth do you think these agencies stay open?

how on earth do you think big brands become big?

lol some of these guys and gals make more than several of you combined yearly.... some of them are responsible for selling BILLIONS of dollars.

i have friends who are copywriters at big big agencies worldwide, and, sorry to tell you guys this, but they'd smoke 90% of you guys in their sleep....

they don't measure the same way we do, but when their clients see billions in sales, you kinda know you did good stuff.

sorry, just the comments on ad agencies are comical.

Disagree for the most part. Sure there are some heavies but there's an awful lot of second-raters. Guys that spend their time on "image" advertising and counting the number of awards they have on their shelf. Rather than how much product is flying off the shelves. But I've no doubt there are a few making millions a year. A few. But I did say "Does your ad agency hack see that kind of money?" As for "how do you think these agencies stay open?" The days of the traditional agencies and their percentage fees is numbered. Read this -

In 2008 Maurice Levy, the Chief Executive of the world’s fourth largest advertising and marketing company, Publicis, dropped a marketing bombshell upon his fellow professionals.

“The very model of our industry is being called into question,” said Levy. “The model today is no longer valid, no longer relevant.”

He was right. The advertising landscape is unrecognisable. The concept of ‘agency’ is at a crossroads.

The CMO Council, surveyed 500 senior marketers across the world and determined:
“Agencies are struggling to evolve as marketing and traditional media go digital in all areas of campaign execution and audience activation.
“There is a power shift from master agency control of accounts to a more digitally empowered client wielding new partner and provider connections.”

Agencies are in desperate need of re-invention so that they can adapt to the new challenges that they face in order to reach out to a new breed of consumer.

So how did it happen?

The introduction of user-generated content changed the implications of the internet dramatically. Technological advancements have radically altered the idea of what the advertising industry is, and what it needs to do to adapt to its contemporary surroundings. The traditional workspace has outgrown the large office tower centred in the middle of a major city.
The internet has morphed into a multi-faceted communication tool (Web 2.0) where conversation spreads out in different directions: customers speak to business; business to customers and customers to customer- social media is born.
The ever-increasing popularity of social media supports the fact that today’s consumer places greater emphasis on word-of-mouth communication rather than traditional advertising means. The democratization of news through blogs, the economic crisis and consequent fall of financial institutions and consequent loss of the consumer’s confidence towards businesses in general are all contributing factors to this phenomenon.
The consumer has more control than ever before, so how should advertising agencies respond?

“Agencies will not just be competing with other agencies. Allies may become competitors, consumers may become channels, advertisers may become suppliers and agencies may become media owners”....

The time has come for advertisers to stop forcing their commercial messages down people’s throats and instead embrace the digital-sphere with a two-way interaction.

And that, My dear Dave, is from an agency guy. One who's seen the writing on the wall. Written April last year and commenting on a 2008 view of the future of traditional advertising. From here - The Future Of Advertising: Agency 3.0 | blur Group

Here's a more recent take on it. From last month -

In digital, measurability isn’t a grey area. It’s black and white. Traditional has the luxury of being cool, philosophical or humorous because it’s building brand equity and setting the long-term tone. But there’s not a single brand in the world that would rather be loved than sell their product. Effectiveness is something that has to be taken into consideration for every digital project. Before a digital campaign launches, benchmarks are set. It’s clear whether any given campaign is a success or a failure. So while traditional creatives may say their project is cool, digital creatives can say their project was effective. And only one of those things is not subjective.

Digital happens faster. It takes a while for a traditional campaign to go from brief to launch. Factors like a shooting schedule and media buy can really bloat a schedule. But a digital agency acts as a creative agency and a production shop under one roof. Producing a project can be much more efficient. With the tech team across the room, we can see progress as it happens, instead of relying on outside vendors. That means less waiting around before an idea goes live.

The dinosaurs are going extinct. Being outdated and reactionary isn’t a problem for every traditional agency. Some of them are doing fine. But a lot of them aren’t. Some of them have become the places where creatives go to die. (Maybe not die - that’s a little harsh - but wrap up a career in peace.) As a young creative, the last thing you want is to be influenced by jaded industry vets who have already checked out. Digital doesn’t have the dinosaur problem. The whole industry is too new. It draws the best talent. The most eager talent. It’s not just people into advertising. It’s people into the latest trends and technology.

http://makinads.blogspot.com/2010/12...rent-than.html

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Ross James

13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

first i agree with the lashing he got.... well deserved lol, but you guys have the wrong idea of 'ad agencies'

you think these copywriters suck?

you think they don't know wtf they're doing?

how on earth do you think these agencies stay open?

how on earth do you think big brands become big?

lol some of these guys and gals make more than several of you combined yearly.... some of them are responsible for selling BILLIONS of dollars.

i have friends who are copywriters at big big agencies worldwide, and, sorry to tell you guys this, but they'd smoke 90% of you guys in their sleep....

they don't measure the same way we do, but when their clients see billions in sales, you kinda know you did good stuff.

sorry, just the comments on ad agencies are comical.

In one of John's books he talks about how when in his early freelance writing days these same "agencies" you speak about would bring him in through the "backdoor" to have him do the writing that the clueless "creatives" could not pull off. I'm not saying that these people your suggesting here can't blow 90% of the warriors away but John is saying something completely different than you are in one of his very own books.

Best,

Ross

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Bruce Wedding

13 years ago

The fact is, we're not the guys originally saying that about Madison Avenue, though I'm sure these guys make big dollars. I've heard people like Caples, Ogilvy and Bencivenga say it.

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Bill Jeffels

13 years ago

Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the interview with John. Great stuff as always.

I think John made an excellent point looking at a prospect like " A Person In Trauma ". And then coming in with the solution to their problem.

Take care,

Bill Jeffels

P.S. I'm still enjoying your great info at TheCopyWritersEdge.com

Thanks
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Nick Brighton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Mister seven posts above insulted a respected member of both this forum and the copywriting community in general. I wasn't about to let that pass.

"No need for name calling" - yes there is - when they are complete idiots.

"Professionals turning into aggressive fan boys at the slightest hint of a counter argument" - WTF? It's just normal behaviour for this part of the forum. You might have noticed we're passionate about our craft - and passionate in our arguments. I see nothing wrong with that at all. In fact - go and drop in on your Westminster parliament and tell me what you see.

"What a diverse place this really is" - quite. So we don't all have to carry on as perhaps you'd like us to - in the manner of an old-school English gentleman perhaps - "I say old chap...steady on...that's not quite cricket. Rather bad form wouldn't you say?"

One thing we do in copywriting is call a spade a spade - not "a digging implement". You dig? So I'll call it as I see it. An idiot is still an idiot. New member with 7 posts nonwithstanding. (And I note all posts were made in the last two days. I also note that he isn't in the ad game at all - he "represent(s) a high-end design studio servicing gilt-edge clients". He also lists his occupation as "professional artist" even though he would have us believe he's "been in Boston advertising agencies for decades").

Carry on.

"Who the heck is John Carlton?"

Fair points. I know we're all emotional around here, and speak the truth, but I guess I had an empathy overdose (induced by too much red wine.)

All I saw was a guy saying "who is this guy" and questioning his lack of public credentials.

He didn't come in saying "this guys an idiot and a ****ing lying fraud."

Maybe - again, thanks to the empathy juice - I read it wrong, and that was what he was implying.

The fan boy comment was spawned from the idea that basically, if anyone dare question the almighty untouchables, they don't deserve a civilized answer, rather a protective insult in favour of the challenged ubdergooroo.

But that was a bit out of line. You're not a fanboy, and I do apologize.

(sidenote - If you want to see a real fanboy, then check out "ps3 vs xbox 360" in Youtube, then observe the comments from fans who argue their corner without rationale or logic.)

P.S - after seeing your reply - it now seems that maybe I didn't look deeply enough into Mr 7 posts

No hard ones.

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Kevin Rogers 13 years ago

Thanks Bill and everyone who made this thread a raucous good time!

I'll be posting part 2 tomorrow. An 8-minute shot of strong medicine.

John and I talk about the current "blind offer" plague and how to use blind copy for good (and when to do it).

Hot stuff.

Kevin
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davemiz

13 years ago

lol.... ross... clueless "agencies" are responsible for billions in sales for their clients...

how much have you sold?

end of conversation. thank you.

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Ross James

13 years ago

Dave... You mad dude?

Relax brotha! It came from a book, ya know, people talk about these things.. It's just funny some of the things John says about these "agencies". Don't need to get all pissy about it... Lol

Keep it real Brohan.

-Ross

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Daniel Rickfold

13 years ago

when is part 2 coming ?

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MeelisM

13 years ago

Originally Posted by antipot

when is part 2 coming ?

Seems like it's out

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

It's live at the blog now, Antipot.

Looks like my thread announcing Part 2 was removed.

Anyone know why?

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David Maschke

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Rogers

It's live at the blog now, Antipot.

Looks like my thread announcing Part 2 was removed.

Anyone know why?

It's freakin' amazing, isn't it?

You have a great interview with the worlds top copywriter, and the thread gets deleted.

This thread (click here to see it) is allowed to stay up, and no one would delete it.

My only guess is you are not part of the clique that can say and do what ever you want without any fear of reprisal. Politics is politics.

That is a great interview, you two made every second count. Looks like a great seminar too. Wish I could go

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Joseph Simpleton

13 years ago

Hi everyone,

Fascinating Interview with John Carlton, and in exploiting the thought-intriguing "blind dimension" to the copy actually amplifies the curiosity factor of the recipient to want to know and see more...

A great sales tool - thanks John and Kevin for sharing... :-)

Thanks
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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels

Hey Kevin,

The second part of the interview with John was fantastic. Listening to the thoughts of a true legend in copywriting doesn't happen everyday.

Also, I want you to know that the interview with John is very much appreciated. This thread has kind of went in a negative tone, and that's too bad.

Again, thanks for the interview, Kevin. Just hearing John talking about Rodale and how they want their bullets crafted is worth the time to listen to the interview.

Best,

Bill Jeffels

Thanks, Bill. All is well. And I appreciate your kind words. More to come soon. You'll be notified.

Originally Posted by Joseph Simpleton

Hi everyone,

Fascinating Interview with John Carlton, and in exploiting the thought-intriguing "blind dimension" to the copy actually amplifies the curiosity factor of the recipient to want to know and see more...

A great sales tool - thanks John and Kevin for sharing... :-)

Glad you liked it, Joseph. Curiosity is, in many ways, our greatest tool as copywriters. Especially powerful when blind copy leads to a product that delivers big in reality.

All the best,

Kevin

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Scott Murdaugh

13 years ago

Kev,

I respect some of the moderators here (I don't know who all of them are).

But yeah, that's messed up.

This is a copywriting forum. This is the kind of content that's RARE as hell around here, solid, actionable and just plain awesome content between one of the best in the biz and a true living legend...

If it was a "it's too self promotional" thing then I wonder why this thread is still live?

Eh. I dunno man.

I do know that I appreciate the Carlton interview and I'm looking forward to meeting up in San Diego.

-Scott

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Ross James

13 years ago

Well my guess is that since this thread stuck and the other went bye-bye, may be because they want you to keep it all in one thread. That's the only logical reason I could come up with seeing this thread is still here. But whoever deleted it should have at least given you a reason and a heads up. You put a lot of time into this interview and delivered for the people like myself just starting out and for the senior warriors that follow John. It's just a shame that someone did that. My only suggestion would be to update your OP to include both interviews.

Thanks A Ton,

Ross

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Daniel Scott

13 years ago

Kev,

I think they just don't want people to clutter up the board with too many topics.

I"d post the part 2 link here... either as a reply and/or in your OP.

OR... put a link to it on the webpage you linked to.

I haven't had a chance to hear the interview yet...

...but I will say I've gotten more value out of your interviews than pretty much anything else (bar being a student of Vin's, and the price tag's just a wee bit higher on that one

).

-Daniel

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

Kevin, contact Paul Myers and ask him if you can tack it on to this thread. I have his email if you want it. M.

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Nah. Thanks though.

I feel it should have been obvious that I was contributing solid content specific to the WF community.

I goofed for a minute and posted a link directly to the Action Seminar in this thread, but deleted it right away when I realized it wasn't cool.

I've always paid for classified ads when promoting things in the past. Even run WSO's just to give away free, no opt-in content.

I've contributed to the War Room. I've contributed lengthy critiques as other talented writers here have.

If they can't respect members who respect the board enough to reach out and say, "Hey man, we have this rule and your post violates it, so we took it down..." then I'm not going to grovel over it.

Funny thing is, there's not even a unique link for part 2 of the call, it's sitting right above the first one, still with no opt-in required. I just thought the content was worth a separate thread of discussion.

I guess the rule is you have to get someone else to post a link to your content. Ya know, because it's really cool and they thought you should know about it. I'm not playing that childish game.

The right people will join me over at the blog and for them I will continue to post the kind of content, and hopefully spark discussions, that can help us all be better marketers.

You know who you are. I'll see you over there.

Much respect,

Kevin

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Alex Cohen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Rogers

I feel it should have been obvious that I was contributing solid content specific to the WF community.

What's also been obvious is that your recent visit here has been a not-so-veiled attempt to promote the February Action Seminar.

Apparently the mods got tired of it.

Alex

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

What's also been obvious is that your recent visit here has been a not-so-veiled attempt to promote the February Action Seminar.

Apparently the mods got tired of it.

Alex

Again, dude. That's fine if they got tired of it. I don't get it, but I would accept it. What's frustrating is that they don't explain it. They just boot the thread as if I was trying to get away with something.

I guess I'm asking too much. I know you'll say, "read the rules", but I don't think it's too much to ask for them to PM a standard reply in these scenarios. Seems that would go a long way towards keeping members informed.

But what do I know?

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Alex Cohen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Rogers

Again, dude. That's fine if they got tired of it. I don't get it, but I would accept it. What's frustrating is that they don't explain it. They just boot the thread as if I was trying to get away with something.

I guess I'm asking too much. I know you'll say, "read the rules", but I don't think it's too much to ask for them to PM a standard reply in these scenarios. Seems that would go a long way towards keeping members informed.

But what do I know?

I've had posts deleted without explanation also. Frustrating? Yes. But that's the way they roll here. It's pretty much take it or leave it.

Alex

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Collette

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Rogers

...
If they can't respect members who respect the board enough to reach out and say, "Hey man, we have this rule and your post violates it, so we took it down..." then I'm not going to grovel over it.

...I guess the rule is you have to get someone else to post a link to your content. Ya know, because it's really cool and they thought you should know about it. I'm not playing that childish game.

...
Much respect,

Kevin

I, for one, appreciate you NOT playing that game. I hate fake coyness.

I don't think you (strictly speaking) violated any rules. Rather, I suspect that the second thread was vaporized in the interests of minimizing clutter.

But it would have been nice for someone to notify you.

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

(Just post more so it doesn't look like you're blatantly beating up something that you're gonna make a quid off. LOL)

Truth in that. Point taken. But, when did marketers become offended by marketing? I was completely transparent in the fact that John was promoting his seminar and we should use that to our advantage to get his thoughts on current issues.

Originally Posted by Collette

I don't think you (strictly speaking) violated any rules. Rather, I suspect that the second thread was vaporized in the interests of minimizing clutter.

If that's the case, Collette, then I AM offended. I brought a legend of our industry here and opened up the floor to Warrior's questions. I even asked them by name. If that's considered "clutter" amid the endless stream of article critique requests, then... WOW.

I'm not knocking those threads, I learned A LOT by critiquing and being critiqued in Fortin's forum back in the day. But I just can't see where introducing a second recording that covers a new topic relevant to members of this forum was mucking up the place.

There have been several threads about blind copy recently. Somehow, John's thoughts on the topic were "clutter"?

But whatever... no reason to beat this topic to death any longer. I'm not gonna go nuts and announce my big exit from the forum. "Damn you all!" LOL. But, I can certainly relate more to those protests now.

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Bill Jeffels 13 years ago

Hey Kevin,

The second part of the interview with John was fantastic. Listening to the thoughts of a true legend in copywriting doesn't happen everyday.

Also, I want you to know that the interview with John is very much appreciated. This thread has kind of went in a negative tone, and that's too bad.

Again, thanks for the interview, Kevin. Just hearing John talking about Rodale and how they want their bullets crafted is worth the time to listen to the interview.

Best,

Bill Jeffels

.
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Alex Cohen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Rogers

I was completely transparent in the fact that John was promoting his seminar and we should use that to our advantage to get his thoughts on current issues.

Kevin,

In the past you've taken pride in being Carlton's number one affiliate. Was that also part of your motivation for promoting his February seminar?

Alex

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Kevin,

In the past you've taken pride in being Carlton's number one affiliate. Was that also part of your motivation for promoting his February seminar?

Alex

Alex, how can I make this more clear for you?

I interviewed John as part of my promotion for his upcoming Action Seminar! I make a commission every time someone buys a ticket to his seminar through my link.

What part of that do you think I'm trying to hide? I said as much in the original post asking for questions.

The WF is not the only traffic source for this promotion. Yes, there is a big affiliate link promoting the event at the top of the page where the interviews are posted.

Does that make me dirty? Does that make the interviews somehow less relevant? Does that somehow diminish the value of attending John's event?

I didn't even include the pitch for the seminar in the recordings.

Why the hell am I explaining this to a guy that calls himself a copywriting coach?

I'd much rather be discussing blind copy.

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Alex Cohen 13 years ago

Deleted in the interest of harmony
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Collette

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Rogers

... If that's considered "clutter" amid the endless stream of article critique requests, then... WOW.

I'm not knocking those threads, I learned A LOT by critiquing and being critiqued in Fortin's forum back in the day. But I just can't see where introducing a second recording that covers a new topic relevant to members of this forum was mucking up the place.

...

C'mon, Kev... You KNOW I luvs ya, but... "endless stream of article critique requests"? C'mon...

There's been ONE request. You'd think the guy asked for advice on how to kill his mother, the way everyone's carrying on.

For the record: I don't consider information from J.C. "clutter", ever. I'm just guessing at the mods' intentions. I really have no idea if they considered the second thread "clutter" (as in: "This is all the same topic from the same person, and should all be in one thread.")

And I do think it sucks that there isn't some sort of standard response that they send people when they vaporize their threads. It would seem an easy thing to put in place.

On the bright side, though - a little controversy is a good thing. This thread has gotten over 65+ responses and 1,100+ views (and rising), in less than a week.

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

Kevin, what's sad is that article writers/content writers/seo writers are being allowed to post here on a daily basis. And yet your stuff is getting flagged and removed. It would probably help if you bought a banner and directed traffic to here.

But I tell you - I'm getting really tired of the crappy article writers posting here and tired of the people who comment on their crap - just encouraging them.

Time for a sea change I think. This is NOT a copywriters board. This is becoming a free-for-all.

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Kevin, what's sad is that article writers/content writers/seo writers are being allowed to post here on a daily basis. And yet your stuff is getting flagged and removed. It would probably help if you bought a banner and directed traffic to here.

But I tell you - I'm getting really tired of the crappy article writers posting here and tired of the people who comment on their crap - just encouraging them.

Time for a sea change I think. This is NOT a copywriters board. This is becoming a free-for-all.

Yeah, I've heard similar complaints from others. I won't pretend to be versed in the politics here, but I'm always sad when schoolyard thinking thwarts people from getting the info they need and want.

But, what the hell... we're marketers... if I can't come up with a better way to drive interest to my content, then I need to turn in my badge.

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Rogers

Yeah, I've heard similar complaints from others. I won't pretend to be versed in the politics here, but I'm always sad when schoolyard thinking thwarts people from getting the info they need and want.

But, what the hell... we're marketers... if I can't come up with a better way to drive interest to my content, then I need to turn in my badge.

The stupid thing is...if guys like you - with runs on the board as it were, desert the ship...then it really takes away from this little section of the Forum. If you read some of Paul Myers posts here you'll see him talk about it NOT being a level playing field - that people who contribute and have been around the place for awhile WILL get more consideration. And that's how it should be. From what I can see - yeah you're beating up JC's course and yeah you work with him and yeah you probably get a commission - but what you're posting is good stuff. Imagine if this section were just full of dicks posting "Critique my salespage". How boring would that be?

So for mine...I truly hope cats like you hang in there. You have a terrific blog going there. And (Paul Myers will no doubt PM and monster me for this) the Mods should at least talk to you and tell you what they want - rather than just deleting. It's not like you're Mister Johnny-Come-Lately to the I.M. Copywriting world.

(BTW, you probably don't know this but a couple of years back I posted a thread called "Riding Shotgun with Frank Kern" - which to me was just my sharing my excitement at having landed a copy gig with FK. You should see what happened. Full-blown attack mode from some of the people here. One guy (and you know who you are) issued an infraction for "Self-promotion". LOL. And then all the other chumps lined up to have a go. Sorry...but I have to laugh. Where are they now and where am I? So yeah - let it ride...and please don't desert the ship. Just post more so it doesn't look like you're blatantly beating up something that you're gonna make a quid off. LOL)

This place...The Copy Nazi walks off shaking his head.

Where's Montello BTW - he'd enjoy this. Perhaps he's thrown in the towel too. (wish I had my little Skype "mooning" emoticon right now)

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davemiz

13 years ago

lol... maybe cuz they saw an affiliate link in the initial thread?

they're really strict about that sorta stuff... heck, i got banned for a month for calling someone a retard. LOL :-)

you probably should have just put the affiliate link under the recording or something.... if someones gonna download it, they might click the link.

They know ppl dont just do a recording with carlton, for the warrior forum out of the goodness of their hearts. :-)

it is what it is, just deal.

Mal, the forum is much more than 1 person.... much much more... ppl come and ppl go.... some of you old timers like me might remember this guy Don.... f... i cant remember his last name... did a lotta biz opp type stuff.

the dude would come post stuff but with his links, then go on a rant how its bs.... that it gets removed.... and then threatens to not come back.... whole big fiasco.... funny stuff.

Mal, a lotta ppl are just trying to get their post counts up... posting useless stuff like it means anything.

look how long i've been on here... and how little posts i have.

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Bruce NewMedia

13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

Mal, the forum is much more than 1 person.... much much more... ppl come and ppl go.... some of you old timers like me might remember this guy Don.... f... i cant remember his last name... did a lotta biz opp type stuff.

the dude would come post stuff but with his links, then go on a rant how its bs.... that it gets removed.... and then threatens to not come back.... whole big fiasco.... funny stuff.

Dave it sounds like you're referring to Don Alm...he used to post and sell bizops here as well.
I loved his rants and crazy 'threats'...
_____
Bruce

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Bruce Wedding

13 years ago

Kevin don't sweat it. You're letting insignificant things knock you off point. Keep moving forward.

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Kevin Rogers 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

Kevin don't sweat it. You're letting insignificant things knock you off point. Keep moving forward.

You're right, Bruce. Thanks. Hard not to get sucked in to the stupidity. That's why I stay away so long sometimes.

Moving on.
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davemiz

13 years ago

HAHA.... bruce you got it!

thanks man.

I totally forgot his last name.... yeah, he'd post stuff, then try to sell stuff, then get pissed cuz you cant.... he'd rant and rave, "threaten" leaving... (like anyone cared)...

funny stuff.

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Nick Brighton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Time for a sea change I think. This is NOT a copywriters board. This is becoming a free-for-all.

I agree, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Kevin - thanks for this content. I love the second part about blind copy. I'm gonna use what John says about "blind copy is for people who don't have anything to offer" in some copy that I'm working on now.

Love it.

And also, I have a client that hired you mid last year. I'm crapping it. Talk about expectations and high standards... but a great incentive to make it killer either way.

But it's cool... I've been spying and swiping you for a while now, so I'm off to recite your work out loud instead of going out with my friends on a Friday night

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Kevin Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

I agree, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Kevin - thanks for this content. I love the second part about blind copy. I'm gonna use what John says about "blind copy is for people who don't have anything to offer" in some copy that I'm working on now.

Love it.

And also, I have a client that hired you mid last year. I'm crapping it. Talk about expectations and high standards... but a great incentive to make it killer either way.

But it's cool... I've been spying and swiping you for a while now, so I'm off to recite your work out loud instead of going out with my friends on a Friday night

Good for you, Nick. But the answer to going beyond the standard is not in studying me... it's in studying you... and the market. Surely it's changed in 8 months. What can you do to appeal to what's happening right now?

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David Maschke

13 years ago

I'll tell you what the problem is...

Me. I should have been put in my place.

To Bruce Wedding... I am sorry.

Take a look at this thread and others. The turning points were my posts.

A negative attitude is cancer, and it's a hard realization when one discovers a group of people would have been better off without your presence. That changes right now with me, that is my pledge.

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Carlton Part 1: Hear what John thinks of the Warrior Forum

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