Professional Copywriter Seeks "Top Gun" (details inside...)

Banned 14 years ago

Well there you go - perfect example of how not to do it. You seriously expect to get any so-called "Top Gun" to respond to this? Good luck.

If you really want to go for it - be creative. Take out an Adwords spot. Head it "Vin Montello Missing" or something. GET HIS ATTENTION. He might have a Google News alert for his name.

Or send him a dirty great box. Via FEDEX - so he has to sign for it. Inside the box is your pitch.

Or send him a box with a helium balloon inside. With a message attached. When he opens the box it floats to the ceiling and the message falls down.

Send him some black orchids.

Send him some hand-made pastels (very expensive)

Anything to get his attention.

But this aint gonna cut it. This is straight out lame. This is just a sympathy tug. Got no balls.

Even the copy in this post is boring. "Professional Copywriter seeks "Top Gun" - you kidding me? Is that really your best? Is that how you want to impress these guys?

If you want to rock this IM world - DO SOMETHING BOLD.

Now have another go.

(and don't go all sulky on me - this is tough love)

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1 reply

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cozandeffect

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Well there you go - perfect example of how not to do it. You seriously expect to get any so-called "Top Gun" to respond to this? Good luck.

YES... Feedback! That's exactly what I'm looking for...

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Or send him a dirty great box. Via FEDEX - so he has to sign for it. Inside the box is your pitch.

Or send him a box with a helium balloon inside. With a message attached. When he opens the box it floats to the ceiling and the message falls down.

Send him some black orchids.

Send him some hand-made pastels (very expensive)

Anything to get his attention.

But this aint gonna cut it. This is straight out lame. This is just a sympathy tug. Got no balls.

Funny, I've never seen "sympathy tug" and "balls" in the same sentence (at least not in this sense)

.

The thing is: I'm offering to PAY someone for their time... or work for them for FREE.

Call me crazy (or just a ******* capitalist), but that seems like a fair shake.

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Even the copy in this post is boring. "Professional Copywriter seeks "Top Gun" - you kidding me? Is that really your best? Is that how you want to impress these guys?

If you want to rock this IM world - DO SOMETHING BOLD.

Now have another go.

(and don't go all sulky on me - this is tough love)

No argument there: this isn't "award winning" copy.

This isn't a formal "pitch" to anyone: I'm in the market for some serious advice, and this is one avenue to go explore.

Countless copywriters talk about mentoring as the major turning point in their careers and frankly... I didn't feel I was ready until now.

And don't worry about me getting "sulky". If I couldn't handle criticism I wouldn't be a copywriter.

Thanks Mal... keep the "tough love" coming...

Coz

Thanks

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Ross James

14 years ago

He got your attention Mal, maybe that was his plan the whole time, maybe he is a spy? Or a Robot from Uranus? There you go, you have your first victim OP.

Thanks

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Hans Klein

14 years ago

You can't go wrong with Vin's mentorship program.

He doesn't have a sales page for it. You have to contact him directly.

It's not cheap, but worth every penny and more... especially for someone where you're looking to get past the ceiling and take your skills to the next level.

You should expect to work hard. He also requires to see your samples before deciding to take you on.

Both of the other guys you mentioned had mentoring from Vin, as well as, a number of other really successful and talented warrior copywriters.

Thanks
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cozandeffect

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Hans Klein

You can't go wrong with Vin's mentorship program.

He doesn't have a sales page for it. You have to contact him directly.

It's not cheap, but worth every penny and more... especially for someone where you're looking to get past the ceiling and take your skills to the next level.

You should expect to work hard. He also requires to see your samples before deciding to take you on.

Both of the other guys you mentioned had mentoring from Vin, as well as, a number of other really successful and talented warrior copywriters.

Thanks Hans, appreciate the tip. I'll look into it.

Thanks
1 reply

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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Coz,

Here's my advice:

1. Identify what "Top Gun" copywriter(s) writes copy in a manner that is similar to your natural writing style. This will help make it much easier for you to pick up what they are teaching you. There are some great copywriters out there that I admire but I can't easily write copy in their style... and vice versa.

2. Use the search function of this forum. There's been more than one thread created in the past where copywriting mentors or coaches were discussed and recommended.

3. Embrace the tough love. If your mentor shreds your copy and tells you to rewrite it completely, it's not because they feel like being a jerk. It's because it's bad and truly does need to be rewritten. Ultimately you will be the one who benefits the most from the mentoring.

Best of luck,

Mike

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Collette 14 years ago

What Mike said, plus what Mal said, plus:

No actual "Top Gun" is going to contact you, via a forum, or any other method, offering to mentor you.

Any "Top Gun" worth the title doesn't go looking for mentees. Mentees come to them. It's mountains and Mohammed.

I'll also add that you should broaden your search outside this forum. Although you hear the same few names here over and over, there are a number of real, live direct response "Top Guns" who are rarely mentioned in WF. And some of them probably have never even registered, posted, or even visited the WF.

Do some digging, find your Top Guns, research their work, learn as much as you can about them. Then approach the ones who are a good match for you with a personalized offer they can't refuse.

Because the FIRST thing a true "Top Gun" is going to want to see is that you got off your arse and did some work to get the gig.

And, no, I'm NOT going to give you names. If you really want to work for, or with, a Top Gun, that's gonna be your first assignment.
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cozandeffect

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Coz,

Here's my advice:

1. Identify what "Top Gun" copywriter(s) write copy in a manner that is similar to your natural writing style. This will help make it much easier for you to pick up what they are teaching you. There are some great copywriters out there that I admire but I can't easily write copy in their style... and vice versa.

2. Use the search function of this forum. There's been more than one thread created in the past where copywriting mentors or coaches were discussed and recommended.

3. Embrace the tough love. If your mentor shreds your copy and tells you to rewrite it completely, it's not because they feel like being a jerk. It's because it's bad and truly does need to be rewritten. Ultimately you will be the one who benefits the most from the mentoring.

Best of luck,

Mike

Mike,

#1 True. Very true.

#2 I've searched quite a bit around (here and elsewhere). The funny thing is, no one really explains how a mentorship works (hence my post).

Do most mentors work for fees? Partnerships? A slice of the cubs writing?

I'm not sure.

#3 Critiques are NOT something I'm afraid of. I think more damage is done in this world with false niceties than harsh words. Mal would probably agree.

Thanks for your help Mike!

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1 reply

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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cozandeffect

Mike,

#1 True. Very true.

#2 I've searched quite a bit around (here and elsewhere). The funny thing is, no one really explains how a mentorship works (hence my post).

Do most mentors work for fees? Partnerships? A slice of the cubs writing?

I'm not sure.

#3 Critiques are NOT something I'm afraid of. I think more damage is done in this world with false niceties than harsh words. Mal would probably agree.

Thanks for your help Mike!

The short answer is to ask.

Ask whoever you're considering mentoring how it works with them.

There is no cookie-cutter system used by all mentors for all of their students.

Hope that helps,

Mike

Thanks

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Alex Cohen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cozandeffect

I've researched many "top guns" here (Vin Montello, Kevin Rogers, David Raybould, etc.) and... while I'm a professional copywriter myself... I can't hold a candle to these guys.

But I want to.

The problem is, I've hit my ceiling. I've read everything on copywriting... from Eugene Schwartz to Jay Abraham and everyone in between... but in order to go from "pro" to "all star" I need some serious one-on-one help.

I've written sales letters which have hit 4,000 Alexa and grossed over $250,000 in sales...

...but I've also written more than my share of "flops".

Which is why I need your help.

Of course, this must be a win/win, so I'm very open to ideas.

Want me to write the first draft copy for free? You got it.

Partnership? Rev Share?

Done.

Straight up payment for your time? No problem.

As long as I can "pick your brain"... it's time/money well spent.

Please PM me with any ideas (or post here). I'll PM examples of my copy if you wish.

Best,

Coz

Coz,

I don't agree with your premise.

First of all, everybody from A-list copywriters (Carlton, Makepeace, etc) on down have had flops. So don't think just because you've had flops, you're not a good copywriter.

Second, keep writing sales copy for real clients. That will make you better faster than anything else.

If you're not getting the fees you deserve, concentrate on positioning yourself better. With the results you mentioned above, you should have no problem doing that.

Alex

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cozandeffect

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Coz,

I don't agree with your premise.

First of all, everybody from A-list copywriters (Carlton, Makepeace, etc) on down have had flops. So don't think just because you've had flops, you're not a good copywriter.

Second, keep writing sales copy for real clients. That will make you better faster than anything else.

If you're not getting the fees you deserve, concentrate on positioning yourself better. With the results you mentioned above, you should have no problem doing that.

Alex

Hi Alex,

True indeed. I'm all for failing -- so long as it helps me improve.

The operative phrase is "more than my fair share" of flops.

I've written over 60 sales letters this year, and most them haven't done much.

A handful have done really well.

I guess that's what led me to look for a mentor. When I'm good, I'm good. Problem is, I'm not good often enough

Thanks Alex, much respect.

-Coz

Thanks

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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Second, keep writing sales copy for real clients. That will make you better faster than anything else.

Not necessarily.

I took that route initially and I made a lot of the same mistakes in the copy I wrote for a long, long time. It wasn't until I found high-quality resources, copywriting critiques, and even some coaching to correct those mistakes.

Perfect practice makes perfect. In sports, that perfect practice is directed by a coach or mentor. The same can be true in business.

In the instances where someone did it without a coach, it's because they had a constant burning desire to keep improving their skills and did exactly that for months or even years.

Take care,

Mike

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Alex Cohen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

In the instances where someone did it without a coach, it's because they had a constant burning desire to keep improving their skills and did exactly that for months or even years.

That was my assumption in Coz's case, because in his first post he said ...

I've read everything on copywriting... from Eugene Schwartz to Jay Abraham and everyone in between...

He's obviously highly motivated.

Alex

Thanks

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cozandeffect 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Perfect practice makes perfect.

Brilliant. Just... freaking... brilliant.

That one sentence is my new wallpaper.

Thanks for the insight.
- Thanks
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briancassingena

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cozandeffect

I've researched many "top guns" here (Vin Montello, Kevin Rogers, David Raybould, etc.) and... while I'm a professional copywriter myself... I can't hold a candle to these guys.

.

Mate, never compare yourself to others, it only devalues what you're doing. If you've written a sales letter which has made 250k in sales, here's 2 amazing things about that

1. You've found the rarest of clients - one who will actually SEND OUT the letter! Do everything you can to get more work from them

2. Most copywriters would make 250k - by working in a job for 10 years. That's a great result and you are head and shoulders above 99% of the rest

P.S. I really really really hope you have a testimonial from the 250k client...

Thanks

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MAJ

14 years ago

A sales letter that did 250k is impressive. You should sell your own products.

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David Raybould

14 years ago

Coz-

It's time to get a mentor.

Shoot me an email through the
form on my site.

-David Raybould

Thanks
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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Gotta love this place...

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

Well there you go - perfect example of how not to do it. You seriously expect to get any so-called "Top Gun" to respond to this? Good luck.

If you really want to go for it - be creative. Take out an Adwords spot. Head it "Vin Montello Missing" or something. GET HIS ATTENTION. He might have a Google News alert for his name.

Or send him a dirty great box. Via FEDEX - so he has to sign for it. Inside the box is your pitch.

Or send him a box with a helium balloon inside. With a message attached. When he opens the box it floats to the ceiling and the message falls down.

Send him some black orchids.

Send him some hand-made pastels (very expensive)

Anything to get his attention.

But this aint gonna cut it. This is straight out lame. This is just a sympathy tug. Got no balls.

Even the copy in this post is boring. "Professional Copywriter seeks "Top Gun" - you kidding me? Is that really your best? Is that how you want to impress these guys?

If you want to rock this IM world - DO SOMETHING BOLD.

Now have another go.

(and don't go all sulky on me - this is tough love)

Then...

Originally Posted by David Raybould

Coz-

It's time to get a mentor.

Shoot me an email through the
form on my site.

-David Raybould

The Warrior Forum is like a good pasta. It always tastes better with a pinch of salt.

Thanks

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Harrisonamy

14 years ago

Coz,

I think you're looking for an external answer, when you obviously have the talent to make things work

What's worked, which letters did well? What did they have in common? what about the flops, what went wrong.

Do you write better for a particular audience (I know I do), or on a particular subject matter.

I don't think you need more tuition, I think you need to write more and more and find your own formula. Any top-gun is going to want to see that from you before they invest any time in mentoring one on one.

good luck

Thanks
1 reply

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Ross Bowring 14 years ago

Most important... don't be intimidated about approaching a soul.

Everyone puts their pants on the same way...

Even if, like Bruce Dickinson on SNL... after they put their pants on they write million-dollar salesletters.

--- Ross
- Thanks
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Professional Copywriter Seeks "Top Gun" (details inside...)

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