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How long is too long for sales copy?

by samrodman
43 replies
Hey everyone! What are your thoughts on this? How many pages on a website should a sales letter be? How long is too long? It is my understanding that a sales letter / web site, should not be any longer than 12 to 15 pages but is'nt that too long? What do you think?
#copy #long #sales
  • Profile picture of the author AdmiralGloom
    Not to sound harsh but if your asking that question should you be writing your sales page?

    Don't worry just realize it may hurt sales.

    Anywho, Long copy is good. Do you need long copy? Not necessarily. As long as you portray every single dimension of your product, and that means every doubt or question they may or may not have.

    If this is a straight forward item that a majority know a lot about than short is fine, but if it is even a little confusing explain it.
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  • Profile picture of the author 2010sahmoa
    I prefer short and to the point. I get bored with reading pages and pages. But if their were alot of pages, the whole thing would have to be "catchy" for me to continue to read. Your first paragraph would have to draw me in.
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    • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
      Originally Posted by 2010sahmoa View Post

      I prefer short and to the point. I get bored with reading pages and pages. But if their were alot of pages, the whole thing would have to be "catchy" for me to continue to read. Your first paragraph would have to draw me in.
      I totally agree: as a buyer, I prefer to keep them short and to the point. If there's too much fluff, I skip away: I dont have time to read through 10 pages of stupid filler.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Truly the blind are leading the blind, so far, in this thread. For people to comment as they are doing without knowing what's being sold is ... somewhat "intuitive", to put it very politely indeed.

        The copy needs to be as long as it needs to be in order to answer all the reasonably foreseeable objections.

        Obviously copy for a $7 "report" doesn't need to be anything like the length of the sales copy for a $27,000 residential course.

        Now the moderators have kindly moved the thread to the Copywriting Forum, you might do a little better.
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        • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          The copy needs to be as long as it needs to be in order to answer all the reasonably foreseeable objections.

          Nothing else needs to be said.
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          • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
            Yeh as said above it will depend, there are times for short copy and times for long copy.... I've seen copy that kept going and going and going, and had to be around 30+ pages in terms of scrolling down. It all depends
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        • Profile picture of the author JWatson
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          For people to comment as they are doing without knowing what's being sold is ... somewhat "intuitive", to put it very politely indeed.
          LOL

          Thanks for the morning (here) laugh Alexa.
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        • Profile picture of the author schttrj
          Originally Posted by samrodman View Post

          Hey everyone! What are your thoughts on this? How many pages on a website should a sales letter be? How long is too long? It is my understanding that a sales letter / web site, should not be any longer than 12 to 15 pages but is'nt that too long? What do you think?
          Anything that convinces your reader to take the action. Even if it is only FIVE WORDS!

          Originally Posted by AdmiralGloom View Post

          Not to sound harsh but if your asking that question should you be writing your sales page?

          Don't worry just realize it may hurt sales.

          Anywho, Long copy is good. Do you need long copy? Not necessarily. As long as you portray every single dimension of your product, and that means every doubt or question they may or may not have.

          If this is a straight forward item that a majority know a lot about than short is fine, but if it is even a little confusing explain it.
          Not to be rude, but your own signature seems a bit rehashed and cheesy. Try to work on that.

          Originally Posted by Big Money View Post

          I usually like my copy to be in the 2500 to 3000 words range.
          Well, normally this is the range that I aim for, may be longer if needed.

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Truly the blind are leading the blind, so far, in this thread. For people to comment as they are doing without knowing what's being sold is ... somewhat "intuitive", to put it very politely indeed.

          The copy needs to be as long as it needs to be in order to answer all the reasonably foreseeable objections.

          Obviously copy for a $7 "report" doesn't need to be anything like the length of the sales copy for a $27,000 residential course.

          Now the moderators have kindly moved the thread to the Copywriting Forum, you might do a little better.
          There's something told in your psychology class - Never believe what one says. Always go by what one does.

          When many people say that as buyers, they like short, crisp messages. They will not necessarily buy your product even then.

          And history says, LONG COPY has always sold it. Tell more, sell more!
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  • Profile picture of the author AdmiralGloom
    Thats exactly the point, to an extent. While it may deter some readers/potential buyers, long copy gets higher quality buyers meaning less returns and less questions asked.
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  • Profile picture of the author ReportKing
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by ReportKing View Post

      12-15 pages? I honestly think that is way too much. In fact, I think that most sales letters are way too long. Personally, the only thing I read on a sales letter are the headline and then I look for the bullet points that tell you what you are going to get.

      I think that copy on a sales letter should be no more than 1000 words. If you can't get your message across effectively with that then you need to hire a pro copywriter.
      And that's you...What about all of the thousands of people with different opinions, reading styles and want's and needs? You have to take into account that you are not writing for just one person.

      So a sales letter needs to be written to cater to all sorts of different people. There are analytical people who would want a long letter, in detail and read every word. There are others who will just skim through to each point and that's it. The letter has to be written to accomedate all types of people.
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  • Profile picture of the author AdmiralGloom
    Read a little on copywriting, perhaps you'll learn better that way.

    Honestly I did not see the 12-15 pages...it is the same generic question I have seen three times today, which is fine don't get me wrong.

    I have not seen the file itself how big the headline is, pictures, videos, text size in general.

    OP if you need someone to look I will read over your landing page for free.
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Originally Posted by samrodman View Post

    Hey everyone! What are your thoughts on this? How many pages on a website should a sales letter be? How long is too long? It is my understanding that a sales letter / web site, should not be any longer than 12 to 15 pages but is'nt that too long? What do you think?
    It should be as long as it takes to sell the product or service...It's that simple. BTW that a lot of times means long copy. This is one of the things I am learning. The length of the copy doesn't matter as long as it gets the job done and answer all the objections you can think of.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Understanding how most people scrutinize a Web sales page will make you a much better copywriter. Most people first look at the headline. If it's a grabber or has some other relevant meaning to them, most will scroll to the price, then the postscript.

    If that person is still with you they'll then go through the body of the text looking at bullets, text boxes, paragraph headers and other 'stand out' stuff. This is where people will read snippets interesting to them.

    If you still have their interest and if they actually have a need or desire for your product an individual will read enough (some or all of the page) to satisfy his or her convincer strategy.

    Copywriting is much more than simply knowing what to write and how to write it. Understanding how most people 'examine' an offer will give you a lot of insight on how to proceed.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Understanding how most people scrutinize a Web sales page will make you a much better copywriter. Most people first look at the headline. If it's a grabber or has some other relevant meaning to them, most will scroll to the price, then the postscript.

      If that person is still with you they'll then go through the body of the text looking at bullets, text boxes, paragraph headers and other 'stand out' stuff. This is where people will read snippets interesting to them.

      If you still have their interest and if they actually have a need or desire for your product an individual will read enough (some or all of the page) to satisfy his or her convincer strategy.

      Copywriting is much more than simply knowing what to write and how to write it. Understanding how most people 'examine' an offer will give you a lot of insight on how to proceed.
      Thank you so much for that great info! It makes complete sense and I suspect that this is one of the things that separates the "greats" from the "unknown's." I am also going to read through that PDF!
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  • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
    Happily, there's a way to test your results. And that is...to test your results.

    Your copy is too long when it starts costing you conversions. For as long as additional info keeps bringing in additional buyers, there's no such thing as too long.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    long enough to sell the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind View Post

      63.74 pages.

      It's been proven.
      Ok, I'll bite...how and who proved this? I don't think that is correct to be honest. So please tell me how and who...I am very interested to know.
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  • Profile picture of the author xraywhite
    We use video for almost everthing. In fact, within a few weeks, it will be EVERYTHING. Consider picking up a Sony HD Cam and Camtasia. You now have your own TV station. I personally have spent over 12 hours on one 45 second video. . . HOWEVER, it works. Personally, people are becoming lazy and are expecting video.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
      Ever read Rich Dad, Poor Dad? That's one REALLY long sales letter, and it works!
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    • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
      Originally Posted by xraywhite View Post

      We use video for almost everthing. In fact, within a few weeks, it will be EVERYTHING. Consider picking up a Sony HD Cam and Camtasia. You now have your own TV station. I personally have spent over 12 hours on one 45 second video. . . HOWEVER, it works. Personally, people are becoming lazy and are expecting video.
      There are plenty of old *******s like me who hate video. You have to write something damn compelling to get us to hit 'play.' And if that thing starts playing on it's own, we're gone. Of course, if you don't want any 'old *******' money, carry on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

        There are plenty of old *******s like me who hate video. You have to write something damn compelling to get us to hit 'play.' And if that thing starts playing on it's own, we're gone. Of course, if you don't want any 'old *******' money, carry on.
        There are plenty of us young ones, too.

        However, it doesn't really matter what we think - it matters what the vendor's (potential) customers think, and how they vote with their wallets.

        Testing is the only answer. However, I do very strongly suspect that many people are using videos of various different kinds without having tested them adequately, and that some vendors would really be shocked to discover how much potential business their use of video (and especially autoplay video) is actually costing them.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Twenty-four pages is too damned long...

    But twenty-THREE... now that's PERFECT.
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    • Profile picture of the author ELK
      As a customer, I'll tell you my least favorite thing is auto-play audio and video. I don't know how marketers think this is truly attractive to a buyer. It gives them zero control and catches them off guard, which is off-putting in those first critical moments.

      If someone puts a highly-targeted and compelling invitation to "push play", that will give me a reason to justify playing it right then and open my mind. Or at least bookmarking it and playing it when I have more privacy. I don't care if it's the solution to my worst problem that day. Auto-play is awful.

      And I do like a combo of video and audio. I sometimes need to reread benefits, tips, examples, or whatever to really get sold on something. If I have no way to get that, I am less likely to be convinced I need to part with my money. I also don't want to have to restart the page for a 10 minute video because the thing is too dang long so I can hear something again!

      Alexa's right - marketers need to do a little more testing before they go "all in" on some kinds of video marketing. There is such a thing as a video that's too long. There is such a thing as video not being enough for everyone. Let people rewind, keep it in digestible chunks, and offer at least some visual copy. I think a combo with serious testing may be optimal for the widest swath of prospects.

      Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Harrisonamy
    Depend on the product, your audience, the investment required and the familiarity the audience has with the product.

    A membership site or online course with a warm audience familiar with the instructor can work in about 3-4,000 words. But that's only one example.
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  • Profile picture of the author Markus Mar
    It depends on your price point,
    if it is $197, then 13 pages would be
    a good length.
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  • Profile picture of the author mygold
    I think 8 - 10 pages are the best to add a sells website.
    You can include over that no problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author Don Halbert
      Holy crap! I'm shocked that so many would think a long copy would be effective on the Web. The other day as a matter of fact, I was asked to write copy for an email campaign. After writing what I thought was a great 300-400 word sales letter, I was asked...can you make it shorter? How about 3 sentences?

      WTF?

      Anyways you might be surprised to know...I DID IT. And although it only went out less than 24 hrs ago...I am already getting the feedback that it was the best response of any campaign to date.

      ...so in short (no pun intended) I think less is more when it comes to email marketing.

      PS: who in there right mind would want to read 3000 words of a sales pitch? Let alone have the time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
        Originally Posted by Don Halbert View Post

        Holy crap! I'm shocked that so many would think a long copy would be effective on the Web.
        I've been making a living with long copy on the web since people were questioning if it was even possible to sell stuff on the web.

        What worked a hundred years ago on paper works today on the web. People haven't changed.

        ...so in short (no pun intended) I think less is more when it comes to email marketing.
        You have to know your list. For mine, long copy has won every test. It's what pulls credit cards out of wallets...for my list.

        I'm not saying that's always the case for others, but I've been around long enough to suspect well crafted long copy will out perform short in most situations. Well crafted is the key.

        PS: who in there right mind would want to read 3000 words of a sales pitch? Let alone have the time.
        Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "I can't wait to read a long sales letter." Fortunately, that doesn't matter.

        The skilled copywriter grabs attention, heightens interest and builds a gravity well that pulls the reader ever further toward the moment of truth.

        Of course, there are those who skim or skip to the end. The skilled copywriter accounts for that in the design (yes, sales letters are designed) and builds in places they can easily jump back into the well.
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        • Profile picture of the author schttrj
          Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

          I've been making a living with long copy on the web since people were questioning if it was even possible to sell stuff on the web.

          What worked a hundred years ago on paper works today on the web. People haven't changed.



          You have to know your list. For mine, long copy has won every test. It's what pulls credit cards out of wallets...for my list.

          I'm not saying that's always the case for others, but I've been around long enough to suspect well crafted long copy will out perform short in most situations. Well crafted is the key.



          Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "I can't wait to read a long sales letter." Fortunately, that doesn't matter.

          The skilled copywriter grabs attention, heightens interest and builds a gravity well that pulls the reader ever further toward the moment of truth.

          Of course, there are those who skim or skip to the end. The skilled copywriter accounts for that in the design (yes, sales letters are designed) and builds in places they can easily jump back into the well.
          To continue from where you left,

          I would suggest people to see the following link from AWAI blog:

          Long copy vs. short copy

          It will clarify your questions.
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          • Profile picture of the author Don Halbert
            Great piece for sure so thanks for that.

            I was referring to the usage of long copy in email campaigns. I still stand by my theory that this is more the short copy domain. Especially with the likes of 140 characters or less Twitter posts and FB statuses. Email and social both have the attention span of a goldfish.

            Pura vida!
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            Don G. Halbert - Inbound Marketing & Direct Response Copywriter
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            • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
              Originally Posted by Don Halbert View Post

              Great piece for sure so thanks for that.

              I was referring to the usage of long copy in email campaigns. I still stand by my theory that this is more the short copy domain. Especially with the likes of 140 characters or less Twitter posts and FB statuses. Email and social both have the attention span of a goldfish.

              Pura vida!
              Ever stand over a goldfish pond with a piece of bread? People and goldfish have plenty long attention spans if your message is relevant to them.
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              • Profile picture of the author Don Halbert
                Actually funny you would say that because I've seen the contradicting opinions on the subject of the attention span of a goldfish. However many more agree that it is the least and considered very very short.

                PS: i know i find something that 'hooks' me from the start and I will likely read 80% of it...long or short...don't matter.
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                Don G. Halbert - Inbound Marketing & Direct Response Copywriter
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
                  For one of my copywriting clients, I wrote the main salesletter, upsell, and downsell pages. All told, it was about 65 pages of copy.

                  My client didn't care though because it pulled better than 4% on the launch and made him more than $30K in the first 24 hours alone.

                  When it comes to copy length, there is no such thing as too long... only too boring.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Don Halbert
                    Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

                    For one of my copywriting clients, I wrote the main salesletter, upsell, and downsell pages. All told, it was about 65 pages of copy.

                    My client didn't care though because it pulled better than 4% on the launch and made him more than $30K in the first 24 hours alone.

                    When it comes to copy length, there is no such thing as too long... only too boring.
                    WOW! 65 pages? Thats a book. Either that or a flight manual for a Boeing 747.
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                    Don G. Halbert - Inbound Marketing & Direct Response Copywriter
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                • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
                  Originally Posted by Don Halbert View Post

                  Actually funny you would say that because I've seen the contradicting opinions on the subject of the attention span of a goldfish. However many more agree that it is the least and considered very very short.
                  I will treasure this always!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Don Halbert
                    It's a pleasure I could have such a lasting impact. Pura vida! :p
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                    Don G. Halbert - Inbound Marketing & Direct Response Copywriter
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        Originally Posted by Don Halbert View Post

        Holy crap! I'm shocked that so many would think a long copy would be effective on the Web.
        You'd be surprised at how many times it works if it's written well.

        ...so in short (no pun intended) I think less is more when it comes to email marketing.
        Depends on the goal of the email.

        Are you trying to get them to a salesletter which will do all of the heavy lifting? Or are you trying to make the sale in the email?

        PS: who in there right mind would want to read 3000 words of a sales pitch? Let alone have the time.
        I have a 4 page email I wrote & used with one of my non-IM niche lists that pulled a 30% response rate.

        If you're on Jay Abraham's lists, then you could get a 20 page email from him periodically... and read every word with bated breath.
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