Freelance Article Writing Work

by 90 replies
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Does anybody have any ideas on what might be the best site to get freelance work?

MODERATOR NOTE:

This thread is largely about content writing, not sales copywriting.

However, there's some excellent discussion so - it stays.
#copywriting #freelance #work
  • odesk for sure.. pulling in over 15 sales letter jobs a week on it at the moment
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    • You're writing 15 sales letters a WEEK?
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  • I've got a few writing projects here with more on the way - Projects
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  • From what I've heard, it sounds like Odesk and Elance are the way to go for us starting out. It appears they lowball freelancers at these sites, but that doesn't matter when you're just trying to build your portfolio.
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    • For my money, this is easily the biggest misconception that surrounds new writers. Bidding sites are for schmucks who want to be chained to a keyboard for 16 hours a day producing low-quality work to make peanuts.

      If you're a monkey, go bash plastic for them. If you're a writer, write for reputable individuals who value their websites and publications enough to pay respectable money.

      Choose a specialist niche based on something you already know about. It can be anything. A favourite sport, relationships, cookery, cigarette smoking, 6-inch nails; it doesn't matter as long as you're an authority on the subject. Don't just take on any type of work in the hope that you'll find the information somewhere. You will still need to research your niche, but you'll get better results with some solid background knowledge.

      From there, find sites that already have articles that cover your chosen genre and contact the webmasters explaining why your content will be better than the stuff they are already paying for. Pitch them yourself, never make a promise you can't keep and always maintain communication in the early stages to ensure you are giving your customers EXACTLY what they want.

      Nobody said it was going to be easy and it isn't. However, you will get work this way. Also, get a website up as quickly as possible (mine is having a revamp, and I know that every day it's down, it's costing me money). Your website is the most valuable tool in your arsenal with the noteable exception of your writing skills. Use it wisely, young Skywalker.

      It definitely DOES matter when you're starting out. Throw yourself into the cesspit of bidding wars, and your work and reputation CAN and WILL suffer. If you have the skills, why should you sell yourself short? Every time a writer sell himself or herself cheaply, the rest of the schmucks are another article or assignment away from an acceptable payday. Fall into that pool of crap, and nobody is going to throw in a rubber ring to save you.

      Yup! I know I'm setting myself up for all those writers who have picked up well-paid work from those sites, but for everyone who has, there are 10, 20, 50 or 100 writers who got sick to death of working themselves into total exhaustion for nothing. Where are those writers now? I'll tell you. They're still selling themselves short, or they've gone back to rot in their day jobs. No more hopes, no more dreams and all because some second-rate work provider wanted to do things on the cheap.

      The day those sites are legislated correctly will be a happy one for me. Exploitation of the highest order. Come the glorious day, they'll be the first against the wall...
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  • I would suggest a few things. First, get a professional website that promotes your services. I picked up a few clients that way. Second, if you do not have a portfolio at all, consider starting off at a content site just to get written material online (like HubPages, Suite 101, etc.). Just so you know, they are not high-paying, but a portfolio builder. Same with Fiverr. (although that is mostly ghostwriting). There are different paths to take as a freelance writer, it depends on how serious you are or if you are just trying to make a quick buck by writing .01/word articles.
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    • These are great suggestions. A lot of the writing gigs on fiverr seem like they're pretty simple. I don't know what you background is, OP but I know some writers on fiverr who can do 10 gigs an hour (that's $40 an hour after the fiverr fee) and if you setup at least a blog page, you can generally get away with posting that to people (via fiverr, since you can't give folks your contact info directly), which would help you get out of paying the $1 fee on fiverr with return clients.

      freelancer.com has TONS of people who don't pay unfortunately. it's find if you ONLY do work with them through the site but once you start doing work outside the site... be very careful.

      I haven't heard the same thing with fiverr although I know some folks have had trouble with some of the fiverr clones (tenbux, gigbux, gigbucks, etc)
  • I'd agree Odesk and Elance both work well providing you set up your requirements properly and check out the quality of writing before committing. There's loads of posts on this forum from freelancers offering their service that are work checking out
  • You have not addressed the reason why. The crux is the much vaunted "portfolio."

    Bottom feeders will give you bottom feeder jobs, that go into a portfolio, attracting nothing but other bottom feeders. You don't have to hang a price tag on these examples, they still scream "Keyboard Monkey For Hire."

    You're not going to get a white paper for a marketing campaign out of these people

    You are not going to get advertorials. You are not going to get a decent sales letter either. None of the things which would attract a high value client.

    Forget "selling yourself short." If it worked the way people think it does, a stepping stone project or three wouldn't be all that bad. Instead that kind of portfolio locks you into a self reinforcing bottom feeder ecosystem. Think about it for a minute -- why would it not be a portfolio of bottom feeder projects?

    Aside from the extremely rare exception-that-proves-the-rule, exactly how could it not be the kind of projects you'd refer to as Resume Stains?
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    • Thanks for so expertly reinforcing my own views. An earlier poster mentioned the need for using bidding sites as portfolio stuffers, so I was pretty much building on what had already been said. It helps that you provided a little more clarification, and I really hope the OP gets the message here.

      Resume stains. That's one I like a lot. I dropped a host of clients from my portfolio some time ago, simply because I didn't want to be associated with, or reminded of, the way things used to be.

      Even creditable writing houses, who are often an intermediate stepping-stone for new to intermediate writers, draw negative attention. It's not so much your own work that sends potential clients running. It's the thousands of other contributors who somehow get through tightening review procedures because an editor is having an off day. I choose to leave them off of my portfolio as well. I know who I trust on my client list, and that means I don't have to worry about new prospects seeing their names.

      Bad language aside, but sh*t sticks and bidding sites are little more than a woolen blanket. Sleep on that blanket and roll about for a bit, and it's pretty obvious what's going to happen next.
  • Add the magical thinking swirling around the "portfolio" concept to my list of pet peeves. You manage your project portfolio as you would an investment portfolio -- not a trash bin.

    (Well, I should be honest with myself and look into commercial peeve ranching).
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    • I have to agree with John's point about copywriting portfolio.

      It can not stay a static item. You have to pull your older pieces and replace them with better-quality ones or winners as you get them.

      Personally, I'd rather have 1 great portfolio sample on my copywriting site than a dozen mediocre ones.

      As for the OP... there is no best place to get clients. You have to focus on getting clients in multiple ways and multiple sources.

      Do some legwork. Find out what the typical gig pays at various freelance and marketing sites. Decide if the gigs are worth pursuing or not for you.

      Good luck,

      Mike
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  • We've tried Odesk, Guru and Elance. Elance is by far the best, but you must know how to use it. If you don't know how to determine if the client or the project is high-quality, then some of the above comments may be accurate. However, we've found that it is easy to tell who the high quality clients are- if you peruse the site you'll see why yourself.

    All of my writing and editing staff are (including myself) native English speakers based in the US, with professional degrees in some writing-related field. The quality of our work and the business relationships that we develop is extremely important to us, and we have had no issues in this regard on Elance. In fact, clients that we acquired years ago on Elance are still with us today, and 2 of those spend over $20k/year with us.

    Lots of people complain that it's impossible to compete with idiots who charge $2.00 for an article, and that is an important consideration. However, if you only select high quality projects and high quality clients and then return high quality work, you'll never be competing with that garbage side of the business anyway.

    In fact, several of my old Elance clients are very active here on the WF. Together we've made a great deal of money. So it can be done. And while Rigmonkey is accurate that for every writer who says good things about freelance sites there are 100's more that say bad things, the fact of the matter is that the ratio he mentions is also exactly the same as the ratio of people who truly care about and deliver high quality work versus those who don't: one in hundreds. Therefore, that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. (Comment not made to insult Rigmonkey, I am absolutely certain based on his well-articulated posts that he places the utmost importance on quality)

    We don't use freelance sites anymore, (except I think one of my junior writers lands projects on Guru and Elance occasionally) primarily because I don't like the structure and exorbitant fees. Elance charges $40/month for a business account, extra for additional connects for bids, and then takes 8.75% off the top of whatever you make. eBay, eat your heart out! Also, the rating system at Elance sucks. That's why you'll need to establish yourself upon a foundation of supremely high quality work- ESPECIALLY if you're using this to build your portfolio.

    But back to the only question you asked: Elance is hands-down the best freelance site out there. Good luck!
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    • I'm glad you've had positive experiences of Elance, Russell. If I had to pick out the best freelance/bidding resource, Elance would win hands down. I've reviewed the profiles of some very talented individuals on there during my time as a member and know that there is more quality to be found at Elance than on any other site offering a similar service.

      My concerns lie with the ratio of genuinely talented people using these resources. What percentage of Elance members could satisfy the desires of a mid-level marketer who has resisted the temptation of quick-fix, fast-fail systems in favour of producing quality websites that act as a genuine authority on niche topics? 20%? 30%? Maybe 40% at a push? What about other sites (such as freelancer.com; an absolute hellhole of a website)? What ratio of their members are up to the task? With a sizeable chunk of it's membership in Asia, and many of the remainder made up of entry-level impulse writers, I doubt the figure would even be as high as 10% and that's why you very rarely see reputable businesses operating there.

      What really, really rankles with me is the plight of the talented 10% who complete most of their work through that damn place. What is their association with that website doing for their potential or their future? Would you hire a writer who has predominantly worked from the biggest bilgepot in writing history? I wouldn't. Others wouldn't. That's why this marketplace, and freelance writing in particular (as opposed to copywriting), needs a more professional resource that alienates the also-rans and acts as a mark of quality in our field. Somebody will do it one day, but it won't happen while good writers fail to realise there are better way to earn money than slaving away for $0.005 a word, only to see your paymaster taking a cut anyway. I fully understand that a writer in Bangladesh will revel in earning $10 or $20 a day based on their cost of living, but while Western marketers exploit those mediocre, second-language talents to create unreadable, inaccurate content, the majority of our own freelancers will always struggle to make an acceptable income from those sites. Sorry, but I really feel this is something that has to be said.

      Of course, there will always be exceptions. Good writers will occasionally turn out a bum article in the same way entry-level writers will turn out a good one. However, the best new talents that manage to survive the first year of writing for money will do so by finding their own quality clients, and I'd still suggest the OP looks in that direction instead of the bidding sites.

      Cheers for a great post though, Russell.
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    • But how does a freelancer starting out just jump into a "high-quality" project? Wouldn't it be more feasible to work our way up and not bite off more than we chew?

      This is why I said these sites can be used for portfolio stuffing. And as you move up the ladder, you toss the oldest (lowest-quality) samples out and so on.

      Could we define some terms? What distinguishes low-quality work from high-quality work anyway? Are we talking about subject matter, medium, intent, etc.?
  • freelancer.com
    forums.digitalpoint.com
    try them out!
  • Ha! Rigmonkey, your 20-40% is grossly exaggerated, in my very humble opinion. ;-)

    I can't speak for the legions of web developers and admins and all that crap, but what I can say is that the true percentage of excellent (and CONSISTENT) writers on Elance is in reality about 2% or less. I know, because that's the range where my account falls and I was always competing against the same dozen (or less) really good writers and editors for jobs from the same two dozen clients.

    Additionally, it is disgusting how these @#$% come in from dirt patch nowhere and try to undercut the whole damn system with bids that, as you stated earlier, a monkey wouldn't work for. It used to really irk me. I mean, seriously- there have been some violent rants about this issue broadcast across the office, much to the delight of my staff.

    But you know what? It's okay. Ultimately, if there weren't ten million turds selling crap for peanuts, then there wouldn't be much special about my services. We've achieved consistent success because we stand out from the crowd of rubbish producers with supremely high quality content at a price that, quite honestly, few high quality writers could possibly compete with. So I guess if everyone cared about high quality and every writer knew what they were doing and why, then I'd be out of business, and you probably would too.

    So keep it up, idiots. I'm making a small fortune, thanks to you crap-producers. :-D
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    • And what does this have to do with the OP's topic? You're offering no solution.
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  • odesk and elance are the best - but there is slightly more competition over on eLance. In the long run, you will want to establish your own site. Some of the freelance sites are a bit picky about any 'external' activity as well.

    There's always Fiverr and all the other 'errs'. Sure, you only end up with a little less than 4 dollars, but you can generally coax your clients to leave a genuine testimonial on your site.
  • I will suggest you Elance. They regularly update with the latest work order. They have a good working system as well. Most of the times, their rates are also quite satisfying.
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    • I know many of you scoff at bidding sites, but two of my best clients who paid me VERY well and have given me more work come from Elance.

      I suppose it comes down to your experience, your portfolio and your ability to really sell yourself past others. My first Elance client chose me because of the strength of my pitch and loved my samples. I certainly was NOT the cheapest writer bidding for his work - in fact, I was one of the more expensive ones. I worked with him over the course of a year and he paid really well because he had had his fingers burnt with cheap content writers.

      My current client pays me a healthy monthly retainer for ongoing work for her website and email marketing - plus I maintain her blog. I started out on Elance with her and now she has hired me independently. So far Ive worked with her over the past three months and am on retainer for another three.

      So, I understand completely why a lot of the experienced writers and copywriters bash these sites. I only use Elance now when work seems a little low - which isn't very often. Its been 2 months since I last placed a bid on Elance. You can pick up some diamonds from these sites and besides, you've got to start somewhere right?
  • I think that you do have to start somewhere. Also, the idea that you will be ruined if you even entertain the concept of ever going to one of these sites is a tad overblown.

    I am a fan of the "down and dirty" prototype. The do something, then do it better, approach.

    The concept is simple. Try what you think will work. Put in some good effort to make it work for you. But, if what you're doing doesn't work, stop doing it. Rethink your options and your methods. And then do something different.
  • Excellent advice. Winners yes. But just like a stock portfolio, evaluate the whole picture see what's missing. Only offer some kind of deal if a new piece fills a gap in "the portfolio."

    If it explains a value add. Or if it explains you do this certain thing clients in general didn't know they could hire you for. Upsell services. Cross sell opportunities. That goes into the portfolio.

    You don't want people to say "I don't know if you do this, but..."

    Things that differentiate you or explain something you put into a USP in a particularly good way ...that goes into a portfolio.
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    • Great points John. John, I know enough of your track record and work to know that I'm preaching to the choir when I say this.

      As you get more established, it's harder to put all portfolio examples on your site.

      You get clients who request you don't share the marketing you wrote for them publicly (or you signed a non-disclosure).

      You decide that you don't want your portfolio samples section to resemble a Chinese restaurant menu because you're offering too many samples to review or look. It overwhelms a lot of prospects because they don't know what to look at first.

      So I've slimmed down my portfolio on my site in recent years for primarily the latter reason.

      Case in point, I write both offline and online marketing but none of my offline/direct mail winners are not in my public portfolio display.

      I don't like having slow-loading PDF samples on my site and for a direct mail piece, screen captures don't always fully show all of the work that went into the copy, layout, and graphics. If you've ever looked at a screen cap of a multi-page Word doc then you know what I'm talking about.

      I also don't like the idea that a prospect might click on a PDF sample of mine and have that cursed Adobe Acrobat tell them that they need a newer version of their software or some other hair-pulling mess.

      The advantage I have (and other established top guns like John) is that I'm established. I can "get away" with saying contact me for other media type samples. I can "get away" with saying that I write both offline and online marketing and have proven winners in both media types.

      But starting out... play to your strengths and show your best work only.

      Take care,

      Mike
  • An idea, maybe, that shows quality clients can be picked up without revealing a portfolio or a website.

    I've just drawn up a quick piece of writing that I'm going to trial on this site. I was going to be contacting webmasters directly to fill a few gaps in my client list, but I'll trial this instead for seven days and see how it goes.

    I'm going to pitch prospective clients, and immediately isolate cheapshot marketers who want something for nothing. This is likely to cost me an hour or so each day for the next week, but it'll be worth the effort if it works (mainly because I'll make sure I use the damn thing again!).

    I'll be at a disadvantage because many marketers looking at my ad will be looking at this part of the forum as well, but I also know that if they're as serious about my business as I am about my own, they'll be inclined to use me anyway.

    I'll feed back the results and a link as and when the forum approves my post, and keep you updated as the week goes on. Please bear in mind this pitch was written in an hour or so, and it would be more effective if I had time to dedicate to it today.

    The selling point here is quality, and a chance to sample it for free. I'm betting I get five new, and highly reputable, clients within a fortnight, and am prepared to stake beer on this to prove I'm serious about it! Maximum wager is a pint. Allcomers accepted!

    Link to follow...
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    • A very interesting idea...and can't wait for your results....maybe if this works for you we can all give it a try to weed out the cheap clients...

      best of luck!
      Arfa
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  • I tried elance for a while and, it's bull****. If you believe in your work, do your own thing. Like a website or anything else on your own to get clients to come to you.
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    • For those who are interested, the trial has been published. It's a long way from being the best ad in the world, but I've never professed to be a copywriter. I'd normally pay someone to do this for me, although most entry-level writers won't have the funds to do that. I've knocked up something myself, as other writers who are starting out would, and hope to bring some positive results.

      Trial
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  • When I was first starting out I didn't need to advertise at all, I just wrote a letter detailing how great my writing is, how much it can help their business and how professional I am.

    I then fired this letter out to anyone I saw was looking to hire writers. Send out 6 letters, get 1 client.

    Granted, I was working pretty cheap but that's because I saw so many other people working for cheap as well. It didn't take me long to find out that these writers were pure crap, not native English speakers and had no concept about effective writing or marketing at all.

    Just write yourself a really killer letter and then send it to anyone who might be looking for a writer. Rinse and repeat, you'll have more clients than you can handle lol

    Or you could try sites like:
    Textbroker
    ConstantContent
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    • Definitely a better way to go if you want to write straight away, and don't neccessarily need the money. I've never used Textbroker, but I've sold a few articles for between $50 to $100 on Constant Content. I still think their cut is a bit heavy, and the automated process makes it difficult to obtain testimonials for your work when a buyer comes along, which doesn't help in building up a portfolio quickly.

      However, the one thing I love about Constant Content is that it gives newcomers the chance to write about the things they have a passion for. I've completed, and sold, several articles that were public requests. Even so, I've made most of my money on the site writing about my favourite subjects. Another good thing about Constant Content is the occasional surprise. I've still got a few articles on there, and last week I sold a piece that I'd totally forgotten about for $50. I think it must have been on there for over a year, but it sold eventually.

      Which leads me to another thing (as always!). Rejection. How many writers try to forge a career in writing, only to disappear from the radar as soon as they get their first rejection? The most common forms of rejection I see come from the article mills. Newcomers try to sign up to DMS, IBP or any of the other big boys and when they aren't accepted, they just give up.

      REMEMBER - Just because you get rejected, it doesn't mean your article wasn't any good. It just means that your article wasn't what the client was looking for at that precise moment in time. The article I sold on Constant Content last week was originally written as a sample for a prospective client. He decided to go elsewhere for work (actually, he went 'cheaper', and I wasn't prepared to play ball over the amateurish 'rates' he adhered to). Eventually, the right person saw the article and purchased it at a fair price. I made a nice little payday out of a job I'd originally completed for free, the buyer got a great article and Mr Cheaprate is probably flipping burgers somewhere earning peanuts, just like he used to pay his writers. Karma? I'm still a believer!
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  • to get freelancer work you choose guru. freelancer.com, elance, odesk all of these sites are good they regularly update there projects
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  • Well, today there is a large number of sites/professionals that offer a great product. I have a close personal freelance copywriter that produces great work. Her name is Mary Ellen Biery. She has produced work for the WSJ and Times. She can be found at goodwritingfast.com. Another great service that I use often is ecopywriters.com Cheers!
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    • what he said.

      rock on there rigmonkey
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  • First, I am glad they are keeping this post!

    I think copywriting can play into this post anyhow. Copywriting demands a large market online and offline. It is also a skill that some writers are not very savvy at. Many writers who are not in the IM world do not understand SEO and copywriting. It is a different animal than the more expository/creative writing. But, I think there can be a balance. Learning copywriting "style" writing is something I am trying to hone in on because I know the value.

    There are professional writers who also want to be a part of the IM world, but get discouraged because of many of the newbie's who do not have a budget and want to find people to write the $5 articles. This can be discouraging to writers. This post is a great way to keep the inspiration and motivation for real writers alive. Anyhow, I went on and on about this on my recent IMI blog post (link in sig) because of the relevancy, etc. I encourage you to comment -

    @rigmonkey - good for you! Would still love to chat offline sometime.
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    • I'm glad the thread has remained as well, not least if it helps newcomers to clarify those big, big differences between copywriting and article writing, and why the copywriters deservedly make more in terms of money. They're the ones who have put in the time, purchased the courses and marketed their services. However, the newcomers will still be able to see that article writing is a thing of value.

      I'll arrange a chat sometime soon, Julie - I'll also take a closer look on the blog link this evening!
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  • Wow! I just don't get this particular dispute. Look, here's the way I see it: if you can't write good sales copy, then you can't be classified as a "good" writer!

    One of the first and most critical things a professional writer learns is the difference between informative and persuasive writing. This is drilled into writers over and over again because they are always the two principle formats you will use when writing. So if you claim to be a "good" writer but in the same breath you say you can't write sales copy, then you are NOT a good writer. Why? Because you can't write in one of the most fundamental styles every writer should know.

    A "good" writer is well-rounded and can adapt to any writing style. Selling is about persuasion, and if you can't persuade with your writing then YOU'RE NOT A GOOD WRITER.

    The fact of the matter is that most writers simply loathe writing sales copy. It's easier to simply say that you're terrible at something than to press your boundaries and challenge yourself. Sales copy isn't every writer's dream, but what writer dreams about articles on weight loss, financial aid, building muscle, penis enlargement, affiliate marketing or the never-ending list of inane topics that we write about on the internet?

    Rigmonkey is a perfect example: a professed non-sales writer who tried his hand at it and performed well. Why did he perform well? BECAUSE HE IS A GOOD WRITER. Tell him you need a technical manual and I bet he could do that too. Tell him you need beautiful song lyrics or simple prose and he'll get that done and it'll be good.

    That's how a good writer is defined: they have a mastery of the written word regardless of what medium you want them to put it in.

    I'm sure I'll invoke a lot of spiteful responses with this, but since we're all putting our "2 cents" in..... Writers who claim to be professional but state that they can't write sales copy are really just making excuses. If you profess to be a good writer, give writing sales copy an honest try. Can't do it? Perhaps you should re-evaluate your skills and start challenging yourself. Or face the fact that you're not that great of a writer.
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    • I am not sure if I agree 100% with your definition of a "good" writer. Just like any vocation, there are things you may specialize in and things you don't. Sure, I can write sales copy, but it is not something I am as good at compared to other writing. Yes, I am sure with time and practice I can. But, it depends on what someone wants to focus on as a writer.

      Not all writing is the same. I could stare at a blank page for hours before any type of poetry leaped into my brain.

      A musician can not just pick up ANY instrument and be good at it, or any doctor get in and perform open-heart surgery, an artist create a sculpture, an athlete play any sport. You get the point. Most writers specialize to some degree. Sure, you can be extremely broad, but I don's see how that is productive. It is uncommon (not unheard of) for fiction writers to write non-fiction and vise-versa.

      And not every writer "loathes" salescopy. Just as not every dancer "loathes" a specific genre of dance. Or a singer loathes a genre of music. Most people specialize in their career. It is not different from writer - to a degree....

      Yes, TOPICALLY I can write about almost anything, but I am pretty sure I could not write a technical manual on how to build a turbo jet engine. Why would I? There are experts that would gladly take that one.

      While I agree, good writers need to be flexible. However, I would not say that if you are not a strong writer in a certain style it automatically means you are not a "good" writer.
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  • Hi Sorry, I'll take this opportunity to put in a shameless plug for my new book "101 Places to Write for Money."


    Which contains...yes...101 legitimate places to get freelance writing work online broken down into the following categories:

    • Academic Writing
    • Article Writing
    • Blogging
    • copywriting
    • creative writing
    • essay writing
    • letter writing
    • news writing
    • review
    • technical writing
    • web content writing
    If interested there's a link to the WSO for this book in my sig.

    Good luck
  • Some fantastic thought and observations over the last day or so, and looking forward to commenting on them when time allows.

    Just a quick update on the trial. No response from the sample article yesterday yet, but I'm confident there will be one in due course. The new client harnessed on Wednesday continues to be extremely communicative, has now given me four different pieces to work on and has offered the opportunity to finish pages on his website, so it's all looking very good in the direction. Another sample to do today, and we're currently at three new clients from the five I wanted to get from this trial (Edit to add: The client on day five of the trial has already posted his article to site and has requested my pricing and full range of services within minutes of sending out the sample, so we could be up to 4 new clients with two days to run).

    Not much response for the extended second week, which I'm putting down to the original ad slipping down the pages of the WFH section of the forum. I could pay to bump it, but I'll wait until this week is out of the way before deciding to do so.

    Importantly, the trial IS picking up new clients who are prepared to pay a fair price for the right articles and I hope it shows other quality writers that they don't need to be selling themselves short in bidding wars as long as they have a small amount of money to invest and a little spare time.
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    • You know there is another good thing you're doing.

      You're showing people that when they create a specific goal and take ACTION, they will see results.

      Good stuff!
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  • It doesn't matter. It depends upon how you present yourself. No offense, but certain people in some countries are instantly ignored by me primarily because they throw the same thoughtless cover page back. The recommendations are good but differentiate yourself on the interview.
  • I completely agree with not giving your services away cheaply. Your time is worth much more than you think and the best way to increase your perceived value is to charge accordingly. The same problem exists in the design market where anyone with a copy of photoshop and a distinct lack of taste is suddenly a designer.
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  • I think Freelancer.com is the best site if you are looking for cheap and professional writers thanks..
  • I am so glad I stumbled on this thread! I am a writer who has been developing his own blog, but I am looking for some side cash to help jump start a few things. I have a pair of degrees from the University of Manitoba and consider myself a pretty experienced blogger and niche article writer. I am so sick of competing with these guys that produce crap articles and will work for peanuts! I hope you don't mind Rigmonkey but I intend to take your example and run with it. I checked out the thread you started and the responses you got, and that is exactly the type of setup I am looking for! Thanks for all the relevant advice and views that were posted on this thread!
  • Thank you, Rigmonkey!!!

    This thread has given me hope that I really can develop a substantial article writing business that's worth the time I put into it.

    Four years ago, as I began looking into internet marketing, I heard about article writing. I was in a bad way financially, and I've always been told I have a way with words, so I thought I'd give it a try. It took a while to find my first clients, but I eventually started writing 20-30 300 word articles a week. Unfortunately, I was only being paid $5 each to write them. I got a ton of compliments on my writing from my clients, but every time I tried to raise prices even slightly, they would move on.

    At first, I didn't understand this. Frankly, it mystified me. These clients, who had just told me that the quality of my articles was far, far superior to what they were used to, would then decline my services if I raised my prices even slightly. Why? I mean, I know that it's human nature to be a cheapskate, but if my articles were really that much better, then surely they could see the value of them, right? But no, they didn't. But I was in desperate straits financially, so I kept plugging away. Somehow I scraped along, usually managing to replace a client who had balked at my higher prices with a new client, but at my old price of $5 for 300 words. I was still writing about 20-30 articles a week, making about $125 on top of my regular (and very low paying) job. But my hourly writing pay was terrible.

    Then, one day, out of the blue, I found part of the answer to the mystery of why people wouldn't pay just a few bucks extra for articles that were 2-3 times better than average. It happened this way. I had an ad somewhere, or maybe a free blogger site, advertising my services, and offering one free sample article. So someone wrote me and asked for a sample article. I took their keywords and had their article written and delivered to them within just a few hours. I also sent him links to several articles I had written that were online. Certain I had a new client, I checked my inbox every hour or so. But nothing came of it. I assumed they were busy, and I would hear from them shortly. After a week went by with no word from them, I decided I would email him "just to make sure he received the article", etc. He quickly replied that yes, he had received it, and found it well written and interesting, but he wasn't interested in hiring me to write articles. I wrote back to say I understood that "money is tight these days", etc, and while he might not be in a position to hire an article writer at the moment, if he ever were, I would love to work for him. He replied that it wasn't a question of money; he was NEVER going to hire me. Why?

    Because my articles were too good!

    No, I am not making that up. He went on to explain that his IM business revolves around Adsense and CPA offers. He needed content to put on the pages, but he didn't want it to be very good. It should be good enough to attract Google spiders, and good enough that it's not obvious spam at first glance, but not so good that people actually find it interesting. It should attract Google, and it should "look right", but it should not have any content of value, he explained. With him, articles had two purposes. First, attract Google, and second, turn off the reader after about a paragraph. Again, I'm not kidding. He went on to say that when the reader gets disgusted at how bad the article is, he'll decide that the site is crap, and start clicking on the ads in hopes of finding whatever he was looking for when he landed on the page. That was the very foundation of his business, and he was making thousands of dollars a month, every month.

    I was shocked, of course. I wrote back and asked him if this was a joke, although it was pretty clear he was dead serious. He replied that not only was it not a joke, it was how a whole bunch of IMers operated. I was told that you should never put up quality content on an Adsense or CPA page, because if you actually give readers the information they're looking for, they'll never click on your ads. I googled around a bit, and found out that there were plenty of other people out there just like him. I found forum threads where IMers were discussing how to write/where to find articles that were basically garbage but didn't appear so at first glance. (It was important that they "look right" so that the unsuspecting reader wouldn't just hit the Back button immediately, but would get drawn in and read a bit before realizing how useless the content was.)

    I had no idea that a significant percentage of people who make money in IM do so by deliberately flooding the internet with garbage. But the revelation did help me understand why so many IMers refused to pay for quality writing. Even if they weren't so crass as to deliberately put up known garbage, they weren't very particular about what they did put up. The main thing they cared about was that the articles had the keywords in the right ratio. And there are plenty of people who can write so so or even terrible articles with proper KW density for $5 a pop (or even lower), so when I raised my prices, I was gone. My higher quality articles were a nice bonus in their opinion, but not one worth paying for. All that mattered was KW density.

    This disgusted me, and it wasn't long before I quit writing articles altogether. I assumed that these attitudes were the prevailing ones among all IMers, and decided I was barking up the wrong tree. I would see article writers on WF talking about making hundreds of dollars a week writing, but figured they were either lying, or "knew some people", or were just incredibly lucky, or didn't mind working 18 hours a day. But I was tired of knocking myself out for $125 a week, so I gave it up altogether. And I went out and got a part time job to go with my other full time position.

    That was about 3 years ago. Things have changed significantly since then, in more ways than one. For one, the Panda/Farmer update is starting to put the fear of God into some IMers, and they're starting to realize the importance of quality content. A lot of them have seen huge drops in their income, and they must surely be aware that this is only the beginning, as Google has got to make HUGE changes or become irrelevant. And we're still a long way from seeing just how huge these changes will eventually be. For another, I'm in a much better position financially. It seems my writing finally did pay off. Some of my friends knew I had done some writing, and about a year ago I was asked to ghostwrite a biweekly political email newsletter for an aspiring politician. I thought it was over my head, but agreed to give it a try. Well, the client couldn't have been more pleased, and I got the job. In fact, he was so pleased that he offered me a job working for him full time, at a really good salary. I had to move halfway across the country to accept, but I'm making more money than I ever have in my life.

    And now, after following this thread, I'd like to try my hand at article writing once again. Now that I'm not desperate for money, I can turn down the 2 cents a word guys, and demand what I'm worth. Rigmonkey has shown us that if you offer high quality writing, and refuse to sell yourself short, people will respond. I'm going to try it myself in the next couple of weeks, and hope to emulate his success. I'm also studying copywriting, and hope to move into that one of these days, where I will apply the same principles.

    Thanks again, Rigmonkey!
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    • Any appreciation due certainly doesn't belong to me. It belongs to those I've religiously followed on here who never falter from what they believe to be right. That's not just writers, but also the IM specialists who have always believed the importance of adding credibility to their websites instead of keywords.

      To survive these days, your websites have to have authority. You have to be a trusted source of information and you have to build your profile for the longer term. Everything is changing (it's not just Panda and the like; outbound marketing is slowly but surely giving way to inbound techniques that are less aggressive, and marketing articles of the highest quality is one of the most important tools of all for many online businesses). The demand for great writing continues to grow, and our marketplace is a fresh, exciting world with enough rewards for everybody.

      It was always going to happen.
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  • wow Bazbo, that's a pretty interesting story! thank you for taking the time to share it.

    I really do hope that the ramifications of Panda will mean that fewer and fewer of the really crap sites get to stay ranked... but I was on the Google forum and more than 40 peeps responded to one of the Google bloggers on quality. They generally were very negative and didn't seem to hold any hope that Google is serious about maintaining high quality content.

    I was very surprised at the reaction.

    Am I being naive to think that the Panda update was for real? That Google actually is doing some long overdue housekeeping?
  • I'm certainly glad that I stumbled across this thread. I think there are some very valuable tips in here not only for writers, but for any business person in general.

    I'll definitely be applying some of these principles to my growing career as a freelance writer and will try and help those who are in need of information like this as well.
  • Wow, great story Bazbo, sounds like your in a similar position to me. Any Google updates that make high quality writing more valuable are OK by me!
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  • This is an interesting thread.

    I started out on content mills, and have managed to claw my way out of those sites. It took a long time for me to up my rates, but I'm glad I did.

    I do think that the low paid stuff was OK for portfolio building, but it's not sustainable long-term - and once you have a reputation as a cheap writer, it's hard to break away from that.

    I didn't manage to get ODesk or Freelancer.com to work for me, but I have heard of people getting good jobs from those sites, so they must exist. Perhaps I just don't use those sites properly. These days I prefer to use forums (because I'm reading / posting anyway), and word of mouth to get most of my jobs.
  • This thread struck a chord with me. I write for content mills and a private client for which I've written articles and blog posts. I've browsed jobs on both Elance and Odesk and end up frustrated with all the jobs for writers at $3 per 600-word article. I currently write for one content mill that shall not be named, to the tune of $15-$20 per 400-word article, but the requirements for those articles make writing them not worth the pay.

    What's gets under my skin is seeing writers jump on jobs that pay $3 to $5 per 500-word article because "it's better than nothing". Then I go on writing forums and read posts from writers who can write 2-3 articles in an hour, while I'm good if I can do one article in a hour tops because I make sure my research is on point and I actually care about my work and refuse to rush through it and end up with crap--with MY name on it--on the Internet.

    Copywriting appeals to me because I can take the time (for the most part) to write my best and get paid well for it. It will be a while before I can make my mark on the copywriting arena, but in the meantime I'm looking for writing opportunities with private clients that will pay more. Right now I would love to write blog posts, which is what I've done for my private client and actually like it.

    The changes with Google have had an impact. Last year, I wrote for 5 content mills; this year I've mostly done work for my private client and only write for the one content mill. The rest have changed so much that I find nothing to write about anymore, or their requirements have become more stringent that it's not worth jumping through all the hoops for the modest pay.
  • This forum was truly informative not to mention entertaining. The exchange of ideas were very dynamic, I lost myself from reading and honestly, I forgot what I wanted to say. To the one who started this, just read and you'll definitely learn a lot from these wonderful guys!
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  • I am amazed that nobody seems to have mentioned vworker.com
    I have done a lot of jobs from there and it has given me a few regular clients that I work with and charge more for now.
    I do go out and get my own clients as well through various sources but it has certainly helped me a lot, both in confidence and experience.
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