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Disguising client stories - or not enough

by marciayudkin
10 replies
How strongly do you folks feel about the confidentiality of the information your clients give you in the course of working with you? And to what lengths do you go to keep that information confidential?

I'm asking this because I've been pondering the fact that in reading one of Dan Kennedy's books, I very easily recognized exactly who he was talking about in a story where he did not identify the people involved by name. The story involved information and incidents that had occurred in one of his mastermind groups, where the members are in a client relationship with him.

I expect the dilemma comes up most for those who blog, do public speaking or write books and articles where client examples have the potential to help make dramatic teaching points.

Interested in your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Marcia Yudkin
#client #disguising #stories
  • Profile picture of the author Drez
    I often sign a mutual NDA with clients.

    It says (in part) "use reasonable efforts to protect Confidential Information"

    And that you can disclose if/when "at the time of disclosure is generally available to the public or later becomes generally available to the public through no act of the receiving Party"

    In my opinion client information should be kept confidential to the best of your ability.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    I think it depends.

    We don't know the details of DK's mastermind group.

    It could be his clients don't mind as long as no one can prove that the person you think/know he is referring to.

    In a court of law, could you say for certain you know it's that person?

    If you say 'yes' and they ask if you can prove it, could you?

    I've seen plenty of instances like the one you mention. I knew exactly who they were talking about, but there's no absolutely positive ID.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      In a court of law, could you say for certain you know it's that person?

      If you say 'yes' and they ask if you can prove it, could you?
      Rezbi,

      Yes, in this instance I would definitely be able to prove this in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't feel comfortable "outing" the Kennedy client and explaining why.

      And this means that I now have access to certain background information about their program that they might not have wanted the public to know.

      You are correct that the Kennedy client might not mind this, but the fact that the reader is not given the name of the person/people involved seems to imply that Kennedy did not think it was appropriate to reveal who it was.

      I'm just wondering what lengths people here go to in order to respect client confidentiality.

      For my part, I have had to impress on subcontractors working for me that they're not allowed to discuss their assignment with anyone, even family members. That's when I have signed a non-disclosure agreement with a client, which for me is an occasional thing.

      Regards,
      Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Hi Marcia,

        I know Dan Kennedy makes it known that if you submit
        an advertising piece for review, then you give him rights
        to make it publicly available.

        I don't have the terms in front of me, so can't say what those rights are limited too.

        Best,
        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          This is my confidentiality clause:

          3. Confidentiality

          The Consultant shall not publicly disclose (except to sub-contractors or as required by law) any private information about the Company.
          And I have my sub-contractors sign a NDA. Nothing short of complete confidentiality is acceptable.

          Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        Rezbi,

        Yes, in this instance I would definitely be able to prove this in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't feel comfortable "outing" the Kennedy client and explaining why.

        And this means that I now have access to certain background information about their program that they might not have wanted the public to know.

        You are correct that the Kennedy client might not mind this, but the fact that the reader is not given the name of the person/people involved seems to imply that Kennedy did not think it was appropriate to reveal who it was.

        I'm just wondering what lengths people here go to in order to respect client confidentiality.

        For my part, I have had to impress on subcontractors working for me that they're not allowed to discuss their assignment with anyone, even family members. That's when I have signed a non-disclosure agreement with a client, which for me is an occasional thing.

        Regards,
        Marcia Yudkin
        I see what you mean.

        I think you'd just have to change everything so as not to give any indication.

        Maybe even change the market they're in.

        It's a tough one.

        Good thing for me is I don't have any sub-contractors.

        I write everything: whether it's for a client or for myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    I would rather get some examples which move the clients (quickly) thourgh the four stages of not needing an NDA -- Denial, Anger, Depression, and finally Acceptance that their project doesn't really need non-disclosure.

    A discussion of the drivers of this, I'll call it an NDA outbreak, would be welcome. Because a lot of these people seem as interested in keeping any information from getting into the project as in any getting out. Now a kneejerk NDA isn't even thought about.

    I'm seeing this used to staunch or cripple testing, for fear "the big idea" will leak out. That's just stupid.

    Stealth-mode startups, etc. There's too much insistance on nondisclosure, and too little focus on having something worth preventing disclosure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Marcia,

    While this doesn't directly answer your question, it is related...

    Sometimes in sales letters I like to put in one of the world's worst-kept secrets. For example...

    "I used to work for a major "hip" computing store. You know... the one with all those ads talking about how dumb PCs are."

    Most people have probably figured out I'm talking about an Apple store. But by not coming right out and saying it, it serves two purposes:

    1. It adds interest and mystery to my writing
    2. People feel smart when they "decipher" the "code"

    Kennedy's books are (IMHO) very entertaining to read, and he does use a lot of sales letter-type devices.

    So maybe in this instance it's not really meant to be a secret at all.

    Of course, not knowing the passage you're referring to, I could be way off base... but thought I'd throw in my two cents.

    -Daniel
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • Profile picture of the author Winlin
    Question: Is this post more about the topic portrayed or outing Dan Kennedy? Could your question not have been presented without using an actual name?

    By using this chaps name you have now exasperated a situation by bringing to light what others may have overlooked.

    There are reasons that the forum does not allow individual grudges or beefs to be aired here. Even if thinly veiled by innocent looking rhetoric.


    ----From the forum rules-----

    The main overriding rule for this forum is this:
    Rule #1

    If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      Winlin,

      I don't have a gripe with Dan Kennedy. For all I know, he may have had the person's permission to tell this story. ("Just don't use my name...") It's just what got me thinking this week.

      I am genuinely concerned about this issue because I am a coach and mentor and try to do my best to respect my clients' confidentiality when I write my articles and books. Actual examples help make ideas seem real, but it often feels like there isn't time to get someone's permission to use their story. So we disguise or anonymize the story, but we may not disguise it enough.

      If you don't like the Kennedy example, I'll give you another one.

      Back when I was single, I was telling my best friend about a married man who had put the moves on me at a party. With just one detail about him (it involved a sitar) my friend turned white. The guy was the husband of a friend of hers and now I had put her in the horrible position of knowing that the guy was running around on her.

      Because this story doesn't involve business, however, it's not as good an example as the Kennedy one.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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