Looking for a Copywriter for a sales letter of CB product in the Health Niche

20 replies
I'm posting this here on the WF hoping to find a copywriter.

Here's what I'm up too and here's what I'm looking for.

I've built a nice little seven figure sales business in the investing niche.

However in the bigger picture I'd like to teach people how they can achieve their own version of the American dream online.

But - here is my issue.

The investing niche is very much like the IM niche in that once your accepted into "the club" you pretty much have to be a moron not to make money -and I've been, thankfully, accepted by a decent enough number of "club" members to make money, sometimes I'm sure even in spite of myself.

So - for me to feel comfortable telling people "Hey I'm a guy who can help you do this", I need to build at least a six figure sales business in a niche I'm not really known in.

One of my worst nightmares would be to have my kids google the old man and have a bunch of people saying he's a crook who doesn't know what the hell he's doing...

So that's why I'm kinda starting from scratch in a new niche.

I've done a good deal of research on niches and have come up with one in the health care niche that I plan to get a product produced for and release on Clickbank.

So here's what I'm looking for.

A new(ish) hungry copywriter with a few proven winners behind them. Ideally two or three, it would be great if it was in a health niche.

I want someone who is serious about becoming a professional copywriter, someone ideally who is working with a professional mentor and plans to be around 20 years from now.

In other words you understand that copywriting, just like IM, is a serious business and you take your business as seriously as I take mine.

I've heard that when people post for writers here the response can be pretty overwhelming, and I hope to not have a flood of replies, just the right ones.

You do need to have, in addition to your samples, strong recommendations, be it from past clients or your coach, ideally both.

In fact in my perfect world what will happen is that a well respected writer like Hans, Matt James, Daniel, Vin, Ross, Ray, Mike Humphrey etc etc (I'm leaving folks off, but I think you get the idea) will PM me and tell me hey you really should check this guy or gal out, in fact the person who gets the job will most likely have those type of references.

So if you don't, I know what it's like to be young and struggling, but keep working to get them -if your determined to make it in this business you will get them, but let's not waste a ton of each other's time if you know you won't qualify.

I'm a pretty good copywriter myself, in fact I'm often offered $3000/$4000 to write copy - not at the A -level for sure, but decent. One well known guru once offered me $10K, but in his defense it was 3am and he'd been drinking since 4pm..so I don't know how serious the offerer was.

But the point is that I'm a serious business owner, and I will make sure this project is successful. You will be working with someone who knows what good copy looks like, and someone who will do everything in his power to make sure this is a winner you can put in your portfolio.

I promise not to butcher your copy, and I will use what you come up with on the page unedited - but understand we will work together a good bit to come up with that.

My budget for the project is $1500/$2000.

I look forward to discussing this with you.

I plan to get started on this project in the middle of September, early October at the latest.

Best Regards,
JK
#copywriter #health #letter #niche #product #sales
  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    I am curious about one thing. You clearly state in your post:

    "I've built a nice little seven figure sales business in the investing niche."

    If you are making so much money in this niche, why don't you have the money to pay for a good copywriter to write copy in whatever area you want?

    That you have a seven figure sales business doen't ring true.
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    • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
      Fair enough - but I've already had PM's from two of the well known coaches on the forum recommending students to me.

      I'm looking for someone who has not yet totally a proven commodity.

      I'm giving someone the chance to have a winner behind them, unedited, that they can use to move their career.

      I'm comfortable doing that because I've been around long enough to know good from bad copy, + relying on the advice of well known writers.

      The other reason, perhaps more important, is that as I said I'm looking to go into a brand new market in a situation very close to what a newbie IMer might face.

      One of the challenges they have is budget, and while I won't have the challenge of my own skills as a marketer to deal with - id like to closely simulate what people will have.

      One of the main reason's I'm using this project is to document it as a case study - because as I said at the start of my post one of the main reasons I'm getting out of my comfort zone in the IM niche is that I want to create IM products, but before I do that I need to prove to myself that I can make a success there.

      Last but not least, I'm good friends with several of the marketers who hired many of the top warriors copywriters here for their 1st or 2nd big projects, and not to "name drop" and be an asshole, but that's what Steven Lee Jones, Imran Sadiq and Mo Latiff all told me to pay for this level of copywriter.



      Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

      I am curious about one thing. You clearly state in your post:

      "I've built a nice little seven figure sales business in the investing niche."

      If you are making so much money in this niche, why don't you have the money to pay for a good copywriter to write copy in whatever area you want?

      That you have a seven figure sales business doen't ring true.
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  • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
    I'm getting way more of a response compared to what I thought I would, and so far I've been very happy with each person who has responded.

    One thing I want to make clear - you don't have to be an active warrior for me to consider you. Hell if your too active on the WF I might be tempted to wonder how in the hell you manage to have so much free time, so please don't let that hold you back.

    If your a good writer I'll be able to tell by your samples and the other people giving me your name. Obviously if you have posts here that gives me more thing to look at - but please don't let that hold you back.

    I'm just getting ready to go to a play my daughter is in so I won't be responding to the people tonight who have written, but everyone (so far) will hear back and be considered. Thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Carol_A
    Should be...."you're"


    lol

    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
      I'm a pretty bad speller, no doubt about that.

      I pay my daughter to go through emails before I send them to my lists, and sales letters looking for spelling mistakes.

      She gets 25 cents for each one she finds.

      Her record is $51.75 on a single letter.

      My wife is a middle school English teacher and drama instructor.

      I'm sure you can imagine what my wife thinks of the things we come up with in the copy writing world.


      Originally Posted by Carol_A View Post

      Should be...."you're"


      lol

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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    Your story still smells fishy to me.

    Time and time again, people post they have a some multi-million dollar business going on but they can only afford some small amount for copywriting.

    And then they give us a song and dance when they are called on it.

    But, at least, it's worth a good laugh to see what people actually think others will believe. LOLOL
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    • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
      Well guys like Paul Liburd, Steven Lee Jones, Mo Latiff, Chris Freville etc and others must not have successful business then...because that's what they told me offer. Obviously they are just a bunch of idiots.

      Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

      Your story still smells fishy to me.

      Time and time again, people post they have a some multi-million dollar business going on but they can only afford some small amount for copywriting.

      And then they give us a song and dance when they are called on it.

      But, at least, it's worth a good laugh to see what people actually think others will believe. LOLOL
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
        Look any real millionaire would put out the cash to hire a top-notch copywriter to start a business in another niche.

        But I know, I know, you want to give a new copywriter a chance...aw...aren't you considerate? LOLOL

        Next time, leave the seven-figure comment out and then state your budget and hire a a copywriter at that level. Simple...that's your answer.

        None of this I'm rich stuff but I can't afford to hire someone...what a joke.
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        • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
          You know Thomas, a good copy writer understands that research is probably responsible for 70% of his success.

          You could ask around about who I am and what I have accomplished and save yourself from looking like an idiot.

          I was very clear about what I'm looking for.

          I know for a fact that top writers with only 1 or 2 winners under the belt, but who are well on the way to m any more can be hired for this price. Even in the IM niche they can be. Hell a few of the top IM guys are cheap *******s and almost always hire new up and coming people for under $3000.

          I could quote for you the exact prices that some of the top copywriters on here did some of the first few projects for, guys mentored by Vin, by Kevin etc. I'm not going to name names, but every single one of them are in the $1000 to $3000 range by what I've heard from the people who actually hired them. Call me stupid to think those kind of deals are still available if it makes you feel better.

          I understand that the copy writer wants to get the best price for his or her service, and understand that I as a business person also want to get the best price for my capital as well.

          I never said anything about being rich - I said my business does seven figures in sales. Obviously that means I make some money, probably more than average, but I'd hardly call myself rich.

          I pay my affiliates around 60%, and hey for all you know I could have a raging coke habit to support on top of a wife who likes to buy shoes and two kids.


          Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

          Look any real millionaire would put out the cash to hire a top-notch copywriter to start a business in another niche.

          But I know, I know, you want to give a new copywriter a chance...aw...aren't you considerate? LOLOL

          Next time, leave the seven-figure comment out and then state your budget and hire a a copywriter at that level. Simple...that's your answer.

          None of this I'm rich stuff but I can't afford to hire someone...what a joke.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        Originally Posted by kellyburdes View Post

        Well guys like Paul Liburd, Steven Lee Jones, Mo Latiff, Chris Freville etc and others must not have successful business then...because that's what they told me offer. Obviously they are just a bunch of idiots.
        I'll add to this...

        First... these guys are established in their niches. If you're going into it as an unknown (and you may not be), your marketing is gonna have to be top-shelf. A lot of these guys can kind of half-ass copy and still get good results because of the (for want of a better word) "incestuous" relationships they have going on.

        Second... I've written for some of these guys and I got paid a lot more than $2k. I know a guy Chris has worked with recently and I can guarantee you he isn't working for anything less than five figures - at least on the launches he does. Chris may have more than one guy; I don't know.

        Make no mistake... at that price... you're probably not going to make nearly as much cash as you would with a better writer. But I guess you can always get things re-written later on down the track if things work to improve results.

        After all... you never know whether or not things will work until you launch them. And if you're not at the stage where you can afford five, ten, or twenty grand (or more) for a letter that flops... there's nothing wrong with being cautious.

        And Kelly... seriously dude... get that coke habit in check

        -Daniel
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        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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        • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
          For the record... there are no students of mine current or former who make between 1K and 3K for a sales letter. My newest, greenest student won't get out of bed for less than $4500.

          Warning: There are guys out there claiming I mentored them when in fact I did not. A couple of them spent all of an hour on the phone with me and at least one just made the whole thing up.

          Buyers beware. If someone says they were mentored by me... write me before hiring them.

          I could quote for you the exact prices that some of the top copywriters on here did some of the first few projects for, guys mentored by Vin, by Kevin etc. I'm not going to name names, but every single one of them are in the $1000 to $3000 range by what I've heard from the people who actually hired them. Call me stupid to think those kind of deals are still available if it makes you feel better.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

      Your story still smells fishy to me.

      Time and time again, people post they have a some multi-million dollar business going on but they can only afford some small amount for copywriting.

      And then they give us a song and dance when they are called on it.

      But, at least, it's worth a good laugh to see what people actually think others will believe. LOLOL
      I don't know the OP from the man on the moon but... It doesn't matter if you believe him or not.

      His stated budget is his stated budget. That's what he wants to spend at this time. It's not intended to be a personal insult.

      Of course, if you (or any other copywriters) wants to give him compelling reasons why he should pay more to hire you, then shoot him an email or PM and go for it.

      My 3 cents,

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Kelly's budget is below my price range... so I'm not vying for the gig.

    But I will say this...

    There's a lot of posers and pretenders on these forums... especially the copywriting forums...

    But from what I've read, and the conversations I've had with the guy, Kelly's the real deal.

    Is he offering a ton of cash? No... but it was only a couple of years ago I would have jumped at the chance to do a $2 000 letter.

    If I were Kelly I'd probably try and get a higher level of copywriter, but he did say he's using this as a case study as well... so I can understand why he's doing what he is.

    Like I said... I don't have a dog in this fight. Just calling it the way I see it.

    -Daniel
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Hey Kelly, congratulations, sounds like your doing good for yourself. I like hearing about people who are "getting it done".

    Also sounds like a good thing you're doing by offering someone who is starting out a chance to build their portfolio. There should be a lot of candidates who'll jump at your offer.

    You should be able to get someone to do a good job for you...I've always said that some of the best copywriters are often those that are still unknown.

    Let us know when you get your product up and going -- it'll be interesting to see what you came up with.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    I think Kellyburdes knows what he wants. Clearly, he's thought this project through.

    I think any attempt at getting him to offer alternatives would cause him to further to "dig in his heels."

    And on a certain level, to me his strategy makes sense. Here's why:

    If you're making seven figures as Kelly has stated he does, certain things ten to happen for an ambitious, aggressive businessperson.

    1. My guess is this isn't the only "start up" project Kelly has on his plate. He's probably got somewhere between 5 and 35 projects he's moving forward at any one time.

    2. The second thing that happens is entrepreneurs by and large allocate or budget a certain amount of money mentally for each project. Initially it's usually very modest. If the project starts to show merit, additional money is allocated along the way based upon progress and results.

    So rather investing $15K in a letter for copywriting upfront, they'll throw $2K at it and see what happens just to get the ball rolling. If it starts to look promising, a rewrite for more money with the inital copywriter or working with copywriter with a higher fee, may be the next step.

    You see this line of thinking all the time with venture capitalists. They go through round one of financing and if certain goals are achieved, they proceed to round two and more money is given and new goals established. It a way of mitigating risk.

    Now you could argue that copywriting is one area you can't afford to skimp on. And make your case on that.

    On projects with partners, especially software endeavors, we'll piecemeal a system together and the moment the project starts to bear fruit, we hire a developer who will build out exactly what we want.

    3. There's also a learning process going on within the project in the meantime. And it adds further clarity, because now you know exactly what the market wants.

    4. I also sense Kelly is empathetic to eager but struggling up and comers. And he's trying to give someone a leg up in the business.

    This could work well for him, knowing that the copywriter would put forth extra effort to make sure the piece sings.

    So I really wouldn't be too concerned about the apparent discrepancy between the income he's stated he earns and the size of the copywriting project.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: I hope you do well with your project, Kelly. And I hope you find the right copywriter for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
    35 projects, holy cow! I'd really have to step up the coke habit to pull that...then poor Daniel would be really worried about me

    And my wife might not take nicely too it either, and I already pissed her off pretty good last week.

    This is kinda funny, now that the dust has settled anyway.

    So this project I'm working on is about yeast infections. And I was thinking about how embarrassing it was going to be for me to have to ask some actress to appear in a video talking about yeast infection. Honestly it was keeping me up at nights worried about this.

    So....in the middle of the night, I had my Eureka moment! SUSAN!

    I mean she's my loving wife who has stood beside me through thick and thin and would do anything for me. She's knows that I'm not entirely rational, and after being with someone so long it's hard to be embarrassed.

    So the next day I asked her if she'd be my actress, she's the drama teacher at our local middle school and I think she's ok to look at.

    Well - I wish I woulda just slept through that Eureka moment and had of forgotten it by morning! I'm 35 and have been with her since I was 19, and she's not slapped me since my 22nd birthday. Well...all streaks come to an end I suppose!
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by kellyburdes View Post

      So the next day I asked her if she'd be my actress, she's the drama teacher at our local middle school and I think she's ok to look at.

      Well - I wish I woulda just slept through that Eureka moment and had of forgotten it by morning! I'm 35 and have been with her since I was 19, and she's not slapped me since my 22nd birthday. Well...all streaks come to an end I suppose!
      That IS funny.

      During my first year as a copywriter for hire, one of my first client projects was a cure yeast infection naturally product. My wife jokingly says thanks to that project I know more about women's yeast infections than most women.

      What about offering your wife a percentage of sales for that product? Basically make her a minority partner in the site. She could take those monies and use them for whatever she wants.

      Hope that helps,

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
        Make her a partner..pffftt...she already is.

        Honestly one of my biggest faults is that I'm seriously terrible with money. If it wasn't for my wife I could make $10million a year and end up with the lights turned off I'm sure.

        I get an allowance, and just like the kids when I run out I have to beg and negotiate for more LOL.

        So the money rule here is pretty much this: Her money is hers, our money is her's, and my money is our money.

        But like I said that actually works for us. I did not grow up in a situation where I learned anything about financial literacy..and she grew up learning to be very good with money, build your credit..all that stuff.

        So for us it works pretty well...and it keeps me from being the only guy who earns mid six figures a year who's living under the bridge

        She's pretty good at letting me have money when I really pout and bitch about it, but really I just love what I do. If it wasn't making a dime I'd still probably be doing it, it really is my passion and hobby.

        That turns out to save me a lot of allowance money and fights with my wife, because she does let me include all of my stock market toys, and marketing seminars, events and courses etc as part of my business cost and not come out of my allowance. So overall I'd really have to say I'm a pretty lucky guy.

        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post


        What about offering your wife a percentage of sales for that product? Basically make her a minority partner in the site. She could take those monies and use them for whatever she wants.



        Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Kelly and Mike,

    Kelly: I have seen Mike's copy and it's definitely tier #1 copy.

    The fact that he's got experience in the same market is a bonus.

    Or you could pay Mike to consult or critique the piece once it's completed.

    Mike: I'm glad you showed up.

    I know yeast infections may not be on your top 10 list of projects, but it might be a way for you to leverage all the yeast infection knowledge that's percolating in your brain.

    My point is maybe you two guys should do a deal together? Think about it.

    I know it's not the perfect project because I'm sure Mike would want more than $2K to do the kind of work I've seen and I also know Mike would rather be writing about something a bit more "exciting."

    But from my vantage point, I see a lot of synergy. There also could be several different ways you both could compromise on the fee.

    And there is definitely a market there.

    Just a thought. Good luck.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
      I could certainly see some sort of synergy with a guy like Mike, and doing some sort of work with him in the future.

      One of my primary reasons for coming to the WF was to meet new people - and the reason i hang out in this section of the WF more as compared to the others is that, while there are a lot of fakes here too, there also seem to be more real players as well.

      The main thing with this project though is that I want to get it off the ground and get it making $100K a year.

      At that point I'll feel comfortable that I can do something other then JV partnerships and space ads in Investors Business Daily.

      I know I'm not exactly following marketing 101 with this new project (the IM one), because what I'm really doing is HOPING there will be a market for it LOL.

      My current business obviously gives me creds and contacts, but as I said I need to prove to myself that I can do something in another market.

      And what I'm really trying to do, as closely as possible anyway, is replicate the situation a "newbie" would find themselves in.

      My goal with this (the yeast infection thing) is to keep the total start up costs under $5000.

      If we can get copy that converts, which I think I can based upon the people I'm talking too and the recommendations I've gotten for them from respected writers - and get an affiliate center together, then that gets it started.

      Down the road I have no problem paying $20 or $30K for copy, I paid $15K to have the space ad I run in IBD written, and it cost 15K or 20K each time it runs.

      But at first the idea will be to just show how a newbie can come into a market, and then scale up. Exactly as you said in a prior post, pay the writer for rewriters, or have another writer come in. Run A/B split tests comparing different letters, different headlines etc.

      And during this entire process try to make it a case study that I can sell to people in the IM market, showing how a real business is created and built.

      So - I'm trying to come at this from the most reasonable and fair angle I can as far as my potential clients go.

      They probably won't have great industry contacts. Most likely they will have some technical skills, but lack the marketing and certainly lack the copy skills needed to make a business fly.

      So I want to show them how to invest in the business at first and then scale up and grow it to something real etc etc.

      So anyway..that's rambling but you know, the stock market this week has my brain fried and my thinking cap got lost someplace

      But that's kinda the angle I'm working at with this.


      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Kelly and Mike,

      Kelly: I have seen Mike's copy and it's definitely tier #1 copy.

      The fact that he's got experience in the same market is a bonus.

      Or you could pay Mike to consult or critique the piece once it's completed.

      Mike: I'm glad you showed up.

      I know yeast infections may not be on your top 10 list of projects, but it might be a way for you to leverage all the yeast infection knowledge that's percolating in your brain.

      My point is maybe you two guys should do a deal together? Think about it.

      I know it's not the perfect project because I'm sure Mike would want more than $2K to do the kind of work I've seen and I also know Mike would rather be writing about something a bit more "exciting."

      But from my vantage point, I see a lot of synergy. There also could be several different ways you both could compromise on the fee.

      And there is definitely a market there.

      Just a thought. Good luck.

      - Rick Duris
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