The Death of Copywriting Part Three

by Harlan
35 replies
One of the biggest factors in the death of copywriting was the decision by Google AdWords to "clean up the internet".

Beginning in January 2010, sites in the biz op world, mlm/network marketing world, and the make money fast world were banned from advertising on AdWords.

In July 2010, Google went after supplement advertisers and banned many of these products and demanded levels of proof of product performance - a demand that never existed previously.

Over all, this is a good thing to protect consumers.

But many of these sites were the bread and butter of online copywriters. And when these sites dried up, a massive supply of clients dried up as well.

Today, getting a weight loss site to advertise with AdWords is a major effort in frustration. Virtually any claim is challenged and the account is suspended.

So first you need to get the account reinstated and then you have to change the copy.

Only to go through the entire cycle again and again.

So people who came online to make a quick score are doing media buys which do not have this level of checking.

And with this came the **** Berry Scams and the Make Money With Google Scams. I've done enough videos about this not to repeat it here.

So Google is insisting on a new type of writing which people are calling Copywriting 2.0

It features:

Shorter, less blaring headlines.

Tighter copy

A lot fewer claims and a lot more content.

Content filled video

Integration with social media.

So the 14-29 page sites (long sales letter) are very rapidly dying on sites that want to bring traffic with Google PPC.

And yet, the arguments rage on about short copy vs long copy. This argument should be put to rest already.

Long copy in many cases is no longer the prime choice.

I'm about to create a new weight loss site and the copy has to be shorter and stronger.

Peoples' attention spans are shorter are heat map tracking is that people are reading headlines and just scrolling down to see the price.

Keeping people engaged on a site and lowering the bounce rate are becoming more important.

I'm predicting the use of engagement mechanisms will become more important as we move ahead.

Getting clients on Facebook and keeping them engaged there will become more important. And moving this clients to email and getting them to buy becomes even more important.

How to prepare for this new copywriting era?

Use an exercise the great Carl Galletti taught me:

Examine every single sentence you have written and ask what it's purpose is.

If you don't have a specific purpose? Kill it.

Now examine every word in the sentence you've decided to keep.

If you don't have a specific purpose? Kill it.

You are left with shorter, tighter, and higher impact copy.

As always, the use of NLP in copy is a powerful tool.

Peace,
#copywriting #death #part
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    1. PPC is not the only game in town. Not by a long shot. So who gives a flying flip what Google and the other search engines think?

    2. Yes, attention spans have grown shorter and advertisers need to adapt. That's not news.

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      1. PPC is not the only game in town. Not by a long shot. So who gives a flying flip what Google and the other search engines think?

      2. Yes, attention spans have grown shorter and advertisers need to adapt. That's not news.

      Alex
      My thoughts exactly.

      Google Adwords might be the most popular PPC but it is not the only PPC out there. There are plenty of others that don't have the same copy "restrictions".

      You don't have to rely on Google for your traffic either. Let me give you an example.

      If you have a product that is converting well and it's set up on ClickBank then affiliates will drive even more traffic to your site for you.

      That's just one example. It's not the only ethical model that you can use to work around Google's shanigans.

      As for attention spans... if you doing the right market research and track/test your marketing, you'll know *exactly* how the marketing needs to be presented.

      John Caples said it perfectly: "Times change, people don't."

      It's a matter of adjusting your strategy, tactics, and techniques to stay current with what works best. It's still the same emotional hot buttons that we hit with our sales messages.

      Take care,

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

        John Caples said it perfectly: "Times change, people don't."

        It's a matter of adjusting your strategy, tactics, and techniques to stay current with what works best. It's still the same emotional hot buttons that we hit with our sales messages.
        Precisely.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          So when is Copywriting 2.0 being launched? That is what all these posts have been about, right?
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        • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
          To respond to your post Harlan, I believe any businessperson/marketer who puts their business' future and success solely in the hands of Google, such that Google dictates strategy and copy, is not very astute. I would question their judgment.

          1. As a whole, Google really couldn't care less about the businesses that use direct response marketing.

          2. You'd think after several "slaps"... countless search engine updates/dances that are put into production without warning... not to mention making it incredible hard to determine why your accounts got suspended or your website was sandboxed... businesspeople would say "Screw this!"

          Google has demonstrated by their actions they have a real disdain of direct response strategies and tactics.

          And I understand why.

          It's because Google feels that if a prospect is using Google's search engine to locate your business, that prospect is Google's prospect, not yours. They ultimately want to be paid for true value of the "hook up." And so Google gets to make the rules, not you. Your only option as a marketer is whether or not you want to rely on them for lead generation.

          In other words, Google wants to be in the tollgate position and get paid accordingly--regardless of whether it's paid, organic or Google Places search.

          If you think me crazy, let me make this prediction: Within the next 12 months, Google will be charging local businesses for placement in Google Places.

          That prediction really is a no-brainer.

          Look at it this way: Let's say you're a cosmetic surgeon. The value of a lead can easily fetch $150/each. More if they're double-qualified. And Google wants their cut being the middleman.

          Now Google will tell you all day long the changes they've requested is because it's all about a good user experience. It's an easy, catch-all "reason" for them.

          But I do not buy it.

          I do not think that is the whole answer in any way, shape or form.

          ----

          The real question is "Why should ANYONE cater to Google specifically?" Sounds like a recipe for sub-optimization, yes? Sounds like the tail wagging the dog.

          Not to create a debate, but do you really think Copywriting 2.0 is intended as some sort copy compliance strategy for Google's largely undocumented rules for a good user experience? Similar to how the FTC, FDA and SEC have rules regarding copy in those overarching market segments?

          I think not.

          I think the intent, purpose and major strategy behind Copywriting 2.0 goes farther, deeper and wider. And if Google was to magically disappear tomorrow, Copywriting 2.0 would still be relevant, especially with what's happening in marketing and the Internet right now.

          ----

          The strategy behind Copywriting 2.0 is not new.

          It's also not just an online strategy. I think it's been about three years when Copywriting 2.0 first started to take shape and evolve.

          I also think it was two years ago, when Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer put on a seminar called "Influential Writing." If you're interested in Copywriting 2.0-type strategies, it's a very thorough seminar on how to increase sales without resorting hyperbole, even in the most hype-required markets like bizop and IM.

          At the time, it truly was groundbreaking new work. And I think it is becoming more and more relevant with each passing day.

          ----

          Bottom line:
          The need for Copywriting 2.0 has little to do with Google's machinations. It also represents a true breakthrough to copywriters.

          - Rick Duris

          PS: If you'd like to get about 30 pages of semi-structured notes for the Influential Writing seminar, just go to:

          Rick Duris | CopyRanger | Killer Copywriting Services from Rick Duris

          And on the exit pop-up, just enter your name and email. And I'll get those notes out to you. No charge. You'll see the exit pop-up, because it will have an offer for the Obvious Adams pdf.

          But as a copywriter, I really suggest you dig deep into your piggy bank and get the full product from Glazer/Kennedy. I have no idea what it costs today.

          But I can say this: Influential Writing is definitely not some rehashed, regurgitated version of previously released copywriting courses. It WILL change how you think about writing copy and maybe even redefine what copy is to you.

          Minimally, you'll be tempted to try/test out the ideas it advocates.

          PPS: I am not being compensated to advocate Influential Writing. I just happen to think it's a damn good course and relevant to this conversation.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
            Banned
            Lest we forget - Google is a business.

            They're in this game to make money. Google is the middleman joining the dots between a company wanting more business and the customer looking to give a company business. Google is B2C personified. Which is why they get to set the rules.

            We can complain about this, that, and the other, but at the end of the day... we all rely on Google, who, incidentally it must be said, are not a charity. Their services do not come completely free.

            And in the provision of such a valuable service to all of us - it's completely up to them what they say goes or not as the case may be.

            Either adapt your marketing model or fall by the wayside. The choice is yours.

            Best,


            Pete Walker

            PS Anything written by Bill Glazer is brilliant - take Rick Duris up on his kind offer above. It's brilliant advice.
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            • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
              Google indeed is a business - and one thing we know for sure about them and the business they run is that they are hostile to direct marketing. They feel this way because they see the search user, not the people buying ads etc, as their customer - so they basically do things to make the search experience better.

              I've heard from several people who have good direct contacts at Google that they are right now in the process of turning the entire system upside down.

              They see the way SEO is currently done as basically nothing but gaming the system, and like I said, they are about to flip the entire thing on it's head.

              If you depend upon Google, or Facebook, or Clickbank or any other third party for the entire success of your business you set yourself up for nothing but hurt.



              Originally Posted by Pete Walker View Post

              Lest we forget - Google is a business.

              They're in this game to make money. Google is the middleman joining the dots between a company wanting more business and the customer looking to give a company business. Google is B2C personified. Which is why they get to set the rules.

              We can complain about this, that, and the other, but at the end of the day... we all rely on Google, who, incidentally it must be said, are not a charity. Their services do not come completely free.

              And in the provision of such a valuable service to all of us - it's completely up to them what they say goes or not as the case may be.

              Either adapt your marketing model or fall by the wayside. The choice is yours.

              Best,


              Pete Walker

              PS Anything written by Bill Glazer is brilliant - take Rick Duris up on his kind offer above. It's brilliant advice.
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              • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
                Originally Posted by kellyburdes View Post

                I've heard from several people who have good direct contacts at Google that they are right now in the process of turning the entire system upside down.

                They see the way SEO is currently done as basically nothing but gaming the system, and like I said, they are about to flip the entire thing on it's head.
                Hi Kelly,

                I've heard similar but from a slightly different vantage point.

                White hat, gray hat and black hat... Internet Marketers ARE gaming the system.

                I can go into all the anecdotal evidence that supports this, but by and large, the gaming of Google IS WORKING.

                Google search engine algorithm is being cracked little by little, day by day. Online marketers are taking advantage and it's probably frustrating Google management to no end.

                Google engineers are trying to plug the holes as fast and as furiously as they can. But they can't keep up with all the innovation (new gaming strategies) that are being implemented.

                Back in May, I read an article published by a respected journal that over two million splogs were being generated every hour. That's 48 million splogs a day!

                Not only that, but the automated backlinking software is becoming more advanced and effective at getting on page #1 to #3.

                In a nutshell, Google's engineers have been putting their fingers in so many holes in the dike, it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to plug them.

                The current system just can't keep up. And a new design has been probably been in order for a long time.

                - Rick Duris
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                • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
                  What I heard, and I didn't hear this directly from Google myself - but I heard it from one of the top organic SEO guys in the game, a guy who has a lot of ex google people working for him that still have good contacts there - is that they are totally changing the way they do search. IE a brand new algorithm.

                  I don't know jack smack about SEO myself, and so when he was talking to us all about it and explaining this, for the most part I was just confused but didn't express my it very much cos I didn't want to look stupid

                  But what I got for certain is that the entire SEO game, at least in terms of Google, is going to be totally different a year from now.

                  That's not to say there won't continue to be ways to game the system. There always will, and to a large extend SEO, at least to me, seems like it's kind of a game of guerilla warfare. Google being the big bad superpower, IMers being the insurgents trying to make little hits and run off before the beast gets too mad and wipes them out.

                  But just saying all the tactics are about to likely need changing again.


                  Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

                  Hi Kelly,

                  I've heard similar but from a slightly different vantage point.

                  White hat, gray hat and black hat... Internet Marketers ARE gaming the system.

                  I can go into all the anecdotal evidence that supports this, but by and large, the gaming of Google IS WORKING.

                  Google search engine algorithm is being cracked little by little, day by day. Online marketers are taking advantage and it's probably frustrating Google management to no end.

                  Google engineers are trying to plug the holes as fast and as furiously as they can. But they can't keep up with all the innovation (new gaming strategies) that are being implemented.

                  Back in May, I read an article published by a respected journal that over two million splogs were being generated every hour. That's 48 million splogs a day!

                  Not only that, but the automated backlinking software is becoming more advanced and effective at getting on page #1 to #3.

                  In a nutshell, Google's engineers have been putting their fingers in so many holes in the dike, it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to plug them.

                  The current system just can't keep up. And a new design has been probably been in order for a long time.

                  - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Months ago my wife and I had an ebook up on Adwords in the weight loss market.

    The bugger was converting like mad!

    The sales letter brought in enough cash in one month to pay our bills for a year.

    That’s why I love copywriting…

    …it has an amazing power to create financial freedom.

    Then Google suspended our Adwords account.

    I’ve rewritten the letter 4 times now…

    …and they (Google) still won’t sign off.

    Does copywriting need to change - if appeasing Google Adwords is your prime objective?

    Yup.

    However, when your ability to sell (or be approved) is inhibited by a set of invisible standards that is different from market to market, how exactly are you supposed to adjust?

    I know, I know…

    …Who would have thought Google would be vague in helping people understand what they like?

    A couple easy alternatives:

    Master the fundamental basics of Google-SEO, i.e. a keyword rich domain name, precise page titles and headlines (h1 tags) that sell… while exhibiting relevance for organic listing potentials.

    Choose small niches (to write for) that have a high enough search volume to monetize the hell out of it… but low enough competition where natural listing placement isn’t pie-in-the-sky.

    CREATE niches and sell your list on the new idea – driving traffic and converting your prospects by writing how-ever-the-hell-you-want!



    Personally, I’m just about ready to launch a co-venture with a Napa artist by branding him as someone that the “new age” community is gonna absolutely adore!


    …and picking a niche that has tremendous organic listing possibilities…

    Screw Adwords!
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      I haven't seen anywhere that having article internal links at the bottom of your sales page doesn't work for Adwords as well as the sales point of view.

      Any experience showing it doesn't work?

      Best,
      Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author Zero
      Originally Posted by Reflection Marketing View Post

      Months ago my wife and I had an ebook up on Adwords in the weight loss market.

      The bugger was converting like mad!

      The sales letter brought in enough cash in one month to pay our bills for a year.

      That's why I love copywriting...

      ...it has an amazing power to create financial freedom.

      Then Google suspended our Adwords account.

      I've rewritten the letter 4 times now...

      ...and they (Google) still won't sign off.

      Does copywriting need to change - if appeasing Google Adwords is your prime objective?

      Yup.

      However, when your ability to sell (or be approved) is inhibited by a set of invisible standards that is different from market to market, how exactly are you supposed to adjust?

      I know, I know...

      ...Who would have thought Google would be vague in helping people understand what they like?

      A couple easy alternatives:

      Master the fundamental basics of Google-SEO, i.e. a keyword rich domain name, precise page titles and headlines (h1 tags) that sell... while exhibiting relevance for organic listing potentials.

      Choose small niches (to write for) that have a high enough search volume to monetize the hell out of it... but low enough competition where natural listing placement isn't pie-in-the-sky.

      CREATE niches and sell your list on the new idea - driving traffic and converting your prospects by writing how-ever-the-hell-you-want!

      ...

      Personally, I'm just about ready to launch a co-venture with a Napa artist by branding him as someone that the "new age" community is gonna absolutely adore!


      ...and picking a niche that has tremendous organic listing possibilities...

      Screw Adwords!
      You know you coulda like just changed the process somewhat in how they got to your website.
      I remember a year or 2 ago, Ryan Deiss got around this problem by using the "sandwich" page technique. He'd send them to a google friendly opt-in page - offer them 1 big free thing on subject and then get them to go on to the sales letter, which he said those that did click through converted better.

      You needn't have changed the copy itself...which they probably would never have liked no matter what you did...
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      • Profile picture of the author Harlan
        Originally Posted by Zero View Post

        You know you coulda like just changed the process somewhat in how they got to your website.
        I remember a year or 2 ago, Ryan Deiss got around this problem by using the "sandwich" page technique. He'd send them to a google friendly opt-in page - offer them 1 big free thing on subject and then get them to go on to the sales letter, which he said those that did click through converted better.

        You needn't have changed the copy itself...which they probably would never have liked no matter what you did...
        This is a totally untrue and bogus technique.

        Google cares about every page on your website.

        I don't trust anything I hear from this source.
        Signature

        Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
        Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
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        Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    What’s the only constant in the universe?

    Um…

    Change…

    …It’s always dumbfounds me when change is talked about like a surprise.

    Is Google’s case, they have the right to set standards of practice for their P.P.C.

    Screw free speech.

    This is capitalism, dammit!

    Whatever they deem is appropriate is totally up to them.

    People will spend their advertising buck elsewhere and we can have a cheesy long form sales letter reunion over on Yahoo and Bing P.P.C.

    When people complain about change, it reminds me of my daughter who always demands we tell her “everything’s the same as before” when she goes to sleep.

    It’s not the same.

    Get over it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    It took longer than I thought it would for this thread to degenerate into thinly disguised shilling for the latest Glazer/Kennedy offer.

    Such remarkable restraint.

    Meet the new boss...
    Have you ever thought about changing your username to Ken_Caustic? :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    It took longer than I thought it would for this thread to degenerate into thinly disguised shilling for the latest Glazer/Kennedy offer.

    Such remarkable restraint.

    Meet the new boss...
    If that post categorizes me in your book as a shill, Ken... expect more.

    As Harlan accurately pointed out, copy that converts is changing. I may disagree with Harlan that Google is the motivation behind it. But like you calling me a shill, I'm entitled to my opinion as well.

    - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    It took longer than I thought it would for this thread to degenerate into thinly disguised shilling for the latest Glazer/Kennedy offer.
    How is it a shilling when he said he wasn't being compensated for mentioning it?

    Take the tin foil cone off your head because there's no conspiracy.

    People mention in this forum all of the time products and resources that they found to be very helpful... including even you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Hmm... we've got The Death of Copywriting Part 1... and Part 3.

    Harlan, math might not be your thing. Just sayin'...

    -John
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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

      Hmm... we've got The Death of Copywriting Part 1... and Part 3.

      Harlan, math might not be your thing. Just sayin'...

      -John
      Or than again, it just might be.
      Signature

      Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
      Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
      http://overnight-copy.com
      Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
      Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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      • Profile picture of the author Ashley Gable
        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

        Or than again, it just might be.
        Ah the benefits of being an "NLP" copywriter.

        When you screw up... it was just intentional.

        I guess the missing "part 2" perhaps is supposed to make me feel as if you have left something out, maybe "copywriting 2.0"?

        And when you launch it I am going to just have to have it or I'll feel all funny inside, like I lost my pet kitten.

        Ah yes the wonders of NLP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Ceskavich
    Or...

    ... You could stop promising such outlandish bull****.

    - Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    Interesting comments to the Harlan's post.

    If I read the OP correctly, it talked about adwords copywriting while most of the responses expanded it to something else.

    Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Hi Marvin,

    Here's a possible reason: One way of looking at this subject is when it comes to Google's quality score, Google has been applying their AdWords criteria to Google Places listings and organic search results as a way to determining a website's quality of the user experience as well as relevancy to the keyword.

    Google is factoring in not just keyword relevancy or technically-oriented attributes of a website to determine quality score, but also cosmetic and even navigational attributes.

    For instance, after the most recent update, I saw a number of webmasters on forums complaining that their websites had taken a hit which were previously untouched by Google. One of the people ventured to guess attributes like the color of the background may influence the quality score.

    Now please DON'T take that as gospel, but what you should take a away is Google's waging war against websites which look in some way contrived to manipulate their positioning in the index.

    Again, I personally am of the opinion that Copywriting 2.0 is not a response to Google's strategy. It more of an acknowledgment of where people (prospects) are at in terms of their trust of copy-written messages.

    For instance, Dan Williams who comes here occasionally for help and owns an offline insurance agency, recently said just-written copywriting pieces that normally would have pulled in the past are coming up short in terms of leads. Even though he thought the quality of the piece marketing-wise or copy-wise was very good.

    I think Copywriting 2.0 is designed to address these types of situations.

    - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind View Post

      You're funny dude... Thanks for the entertainment
      He is quite funny bless him.

      Only responds to posters that he knows he can tackle. The rest of us he won't respond directly to our comments - won't touch them with a bargepole.

      Very telling. Must be hard once being right at the very top of your game and afterwards falling flat on your face when the market changes though. Whereas the true entrepreneurs will simply adapt their business models as time goes by.

      Let's face it...there was so much money floating around in the .com boom years and afterwards in the property boom years that anyone with half a decent copywriting mind on their shoulders could rake in the cash - it was easy money.

      But then along comes a double dip recession and fundamental changes in the marketplace, the question today is... will you adapt to these changes or like so many others fall by the wayside, your moment of fame now long gone? Only time will tell I guess.

      Charging tens of thousands of dollars for a single piece of sales copy then to be hit like an avalanche with the recession and to drop your prices to an all time low to maintain competitive advantage, my heart bleeds for them.

      One lesson can be learn't from this... don't shout out how much you're earning to the rest of the world when times are good, for when they turn sour, you'll end up looking like a right charlie.

      Such is the self inflated egotism of the business world in general though. Better to keep your feet on the ground and be modest I think.

      It's all too funny for words.
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind View Post

      Google does not control all the traffic online. Far from it actually.

      And can you mention ONE example of a (successful) direct response website on Google that does what you're advocating?

      I can mention TONS of examples of highly successful sites that are doing very well WITHOUT Google. Common sense tells us this disproves your unfounded theory that Google's decisions have "killed" copywriting.

      Long copy/video has worked, currently works, and will continue to work. But because Google has strict guidelines in place against many DR type business we're supposed to believe EVERYTHING is changing?

      Is that what you're trying to tell us? You're funny dude... Thanks for the entertainment
      I also want to point out one additional thing about Copywriting 2.0:

      Just because Copywriting 2.0 is currently evolving and being put into production DOESN'T mean it's required to be successful and have websites that convert

      Th other thing is thing is that all the principles of prior copywriting models that have served us so well for so long, Copywriting 2.0 does not change their efficacy.

      They've seen the man behind the marketing curtain and negative experiences being stacked over time of deception or

      What has changed is by and large, prospects no longer take a copywriting piece and assumes it's true. Copywriting 2.0 creates another option for the marketer to overcome.

      - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
      Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind View Post

      Google does not control all the traffic online. Far from it actually.
      Amen. Google is the first resort of the unimaginative.

      I don't give a damn about the quality score they apply to my sites or how they change their algorithm. Lots of us are doing just fine and will continue to thrive without making any effort to shake the G tree.

      Still, Google's moves are understandable.

      Unless you're skilled in Boolean searching, the relevance of search results has been in retrograde for quite a while.

      Marketers whose focus is on gaming the Goog instead of on creating high quality, relevant content and products are to blame.

      Not only do they make the internet suck for searchers, they have been slicing consumer trust into fajitas. Weight Loss and IM are the leading, fecal contaminated, edge of the blade.

      I know...not all weight loss and biz op offers are of that feather, but sometimes you have to prune a healthy branch to get the tree to grow the way you want it to.

      However, I fail to see how any of this kills copywriting or causes it to evolve in a way that it wasn't already evolving. These categories where the bread and butter of some copywriters. So what? A century ago bread and butter was the bread and butter of copyrighting.
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      • Profile picture of the author Harlan
        Coming here from time to time is amusing.

        The best part: everyone projecting what my real reasons are.

        For all intents and purposes - I'm out of the copywriting game.

        I've closed down my individual copy coaching program.

        I work with a small segment of marketers intent on building their businesses.

        The rest of the time, I work on my own projects.

        Meditation is something that really interests me and I'm developing that as a niche.

        I'll be repositioning a lot of my products to tie in to this niche.

        And I'm working on NLP projects and products...

        but copy? I'm on to other things.

        One piece of advice I gave my students:

        Write one project for a client and then do one for yourself.

        The money that comes in is truly rewarding.
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        Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
        Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
        http://overnight-copy.com
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    Hey harlan.... enjoying our lovely weather?

    you had some very interesting points...

    i dont get into all the tech stuff and whatnot like some of these guys... fact is google traffic is awesome and USED TO convert really well (i say used to because you need an act of god to use them these days).

    if google adwords was viable right now, we'd have a LOT more ppl getting traffic and making money... even in this economy.

    this means more projects for you guys to write copy for.

    sure... If the economy was doing better, more people would be making money... that also means more offers going up and more copywriting projects.

    The video thing is interesting... there are people who would LOVE a killer video that converts... but they don't know anyone who can do them... they dont know how much it costs... they haven't seen your samples.... guys, there are a LOT of people who want them done... not sure how much they're willing to pay but i *think* its a segment thats ripe for the picking...

    And another thing you knuckleheads may have missed... there are more copywriters out there today than 3,4 even 5 years ago. Not all are great, some might suck the big one... but still more competition for ya'll.

    So lets see... more competition, less supply (offers/ppl making money)... it doesn't take a brain surgeon to put the pieces together.

    Thats not to say no ones making money these days... i think its just less of us are vs a few years ago.
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    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      Hey harlan.... enjoying our lovely weather?

      Actually I'm in NY and it's pouring all day.

      Are you still down here? If so, we should do coffee.

      I have a secret weapon for Google. He's a guy with Direct Connections into the Google AdWords approval office.

      He can get direct answers out of Google and make it stick.

      If you're around in South Florida, PM me and let's hit Starbucks.
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      Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
      Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
      http://overnight-copy.com
      Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
      Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      And another thing you knuckleheads may have missed... there are more copywriters out there today than 3,4 even 5 years ago. Not all are great, some might suck the big one... but still more competition for ya'll.

      So lets see... more competition, less supply (offers/ppl making money)... it doesn't take a brain surgeon to put the pieces together.

      Thats not to say no ones making money these days... i think its just less of us are vs a few years ago.
      It doesn't really matter how many copywriters are out there Dave. There's plenty enough work to go around.

      I think a lot of people in the IM niche must be going around with blinkers on their eyes. Especially copywriters only looking to the IM industry for more copywriting gigs.

      The fact is that pretty much everywhere you look there are opportunities in abundance. More people than ever turning to self employment and setting up their own small businesses. More networking opportunities than you can shake a stick at. More people requiring very good sales copy for any one of a number of reasons.

      The market isn't shrinking Dave, it's expanding at a very rapid rate of knots. Copywriters who bury their heads in the sand thinking it's all done and dusted won't get anywhere in this fast changing world. You need to keep looking, searching out new trends, find out where the money is at and don't be afraid of trying every new avenue you can until you find your niche speciality.

      The choice of assignments on offer is limited only by your imagination. Think small and you'll get small results. Think bigger and your return will be bigger. It all comes down to risk management and putting yourself out there. Every rejection is just one step closer to getting the next big contract.

      So many talk about things here as though it's categorical fact. 'The market is dead. I've never seen it so bad. What are we going to do'?... blah blah blah ad infinitum...

      You're marketers damn it! Get off your bloomin' fat arses and start chasing the work down. Sit still and do nothing and you won't get anywhere fast. Take at least some action every day and sooner or later you can still be a success in this business.

      And what is success anyway?... It's not about being the next biggest hotshot copywriting 'guru' in the making. It's about keeping the roof over your head, putting food on the table and having love and happiness in your home and family life. That counts for much more than money can ever bring into your individual lives.

      If all you think about is materialism non-stop, of course you're going to set yourself up for a massive disappointment at some point. But if you can be content to concentrate on the more important and real things in life - if you're providing for your family, if you're spreading love, friendship, and happiness around your family, friends, and neighbors then you are a winning success story unto yourself and others. Period.

      Simple.

      Now get out there and grab some more work! If you keep on doing what you're currently doing and not getting anywhere fast, change out your strategy and tactics. It's only by thinking outside the box, switching out your own marketing not being afraid to try out something new every day that your cash flow situation will change for the better.

      In other words... be the change you want in life.

      Best,


      Pete Walker
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    I nearly think there's too much ego in this thread for there to be room for my comment, but here goes...

    With the growth in mobile devices that connect to the Internet, I would have thought it's opening up real world opportunities a little more.

    That is to say, a good copywriter might be able to pull quite a bit of traffic with a billboard or poster with the right placement for certain niches.

    With the right approach, leads might even end up cheaper than Adwords. Who knows!
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      I nearly think there's too much ego in this thread for there to be room for my comment, but here goes...

      With the growth in mobile devices that connect to the Internet, I would have thought it's opening up real world opportunities a little more.

      That is to say, a good copywriter might be able to pull quite a bit of traffic with a billboard or poster with the right placement for certain niches.

      With the right approach, leads might even end up cheaper than Adwords. Who knows!
      Yup.

      It seems some people just can't agree or disagree without having to attack others.
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