How Do I Write Great Copy? Simple...

15 years ago

Are you for real?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families
STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[407197].message }}

Mark Kaye 15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

Are you for real?

Yes. I am actually real...I pinched myself and it hurt so, I know that I'm here.

You disagree?
- Thanks
- 2 replies
Signature
***FREE WSO ALERT!***
THE REAL TRAFFIC SECRET OF THE $1,000,000 HOMEPAGE HAS FINALLY BEEN REVEALED! CLICK HERE
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[407226].message }}
- MontelloMarketing 15 years ago
  
  Mark... I think the incredulity was due to you claiming that was "writing great copy..." when it was nothing of the sort. It was "swiping great sales letters."
  
  Now sure... swiping is common and when done correctly there's nothing wrong with it. (Although I've never been able to do it.)
  
  But please don't call that writing great copy. Because it's not. And it cheapens what the rest of us do. Those of us who don't "wholesale swipe" sales letters... those of us who are craftsmen and women... those of us who are actual writers.
  
  Again, before this turns into a debate on swiping, let me repeat... there's nothing wrong with swiping (when done ethically). But it's not writing.
  
  Thanks
  
  2 replies
  
  Signature
  
  The Montello Group
  Copywriting|Publishing|Training
  Your Premier Conversion Cooperative
  
  Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
  CLICK HERE!
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[407490].message }}
  
  Dean Dhuli 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing
  
  Now sure... swiping is common and when done correctly there's nothing wrong with it. (Although I've never been able to do it.)
  
  Same here!
  
  I have sometimes swiped sections of sales copy, but never an entire sales copy at the same time.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[407621].message }}
  
  Anthonyaa 15 years ago
  
  I agree with you, but if someone uses this method to learn, using it as a template, and after they have learnt then write their own original copies, would not this be rewarding?
  
  I am sure that there are other ways of learning, but Mark has found his way for which he should be commended.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[423084].message }}
- Eziseo 15 years ago
  
  Heres my two cents:
  It starts with a website that has been developed with the right keyword research being undertaken at the start then these keywords, images and content are used to create a website well optimized for search engines plus good off page optimization (or linking to your website for natural search optimization....see where do I get links to my website?)
  
  When a visitor arrives at your website - the website needs to offer some kind of visual "instant gratification". As soon as they arrive the visitor will assess in seconds whether this is "the right place to be" and should be able to locate what they are looking for without having to work hard to find it!
  
  COPYWRITING: Now here is the juicy part. Good copy will entice the reader into a personal experience and reason to associate with your business brand or persona. A good sales page & salescopy should include:
  
  Headline and subheadline
  
  Introduction to problem
  
  Building credibility - why you or your product?
  
  Include testimonials - other people have bought and been happy
  
  Clearly state features and benefits
  
  Establish value of price - justification for spending the money
  
  Develop a guarantee OR SUPER VALUE see below
  
  Irresistible bonuses
  
  Powerful call to action
  
  Take them through an emotional journey and then give them reasons to justify why its ok (and vital) for them to buy your product
  
  That about sums up the main points I use when writing good copy.
  
  Mia
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  IF You Want Great Exposure For Your SEO OR IM services, tools, or software LIST YOUR PRODUCT OR SERVICE FREE HERE. Get Do follow links back to your website, collect rave reviews you can post on your pages and tons of exposure with a full page profile listing for FREE! FREE EBOOK Internet Marketing On Autopilot SEO Made Easy Download Free SEO Ebook
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[424673].message }}

tomw

15 years ago

In addition to Vin's points...

...it isn't even copy "swiping."

Start at the top and work your way down. Slowly replace everything with your own unique stuff.

Replace the existing headline with your own. Replace the photo of the product with your own. Replace the descriptions, benefits, graphics, videos. You can easily recreate the layout and style of a fantastic sales page this way. In the process you are teaching yourself to become a GREAT copy writer.

So what you're saying is to take something that is converting and systematically replace it so that one is left with the same grid (layout) but none of the fundamental elements that actually worked!

You state that;

the most valuable piece of information in ANY product they buy online is the sales page.

which is debatable in itself, but then you proceed to direct people to ignore it, remove any opportunity for learning from it and to eliminate any potential benefit of your "great copywriting" system by replacing the proven with the unproven.

Genius! I'm sure Drayton, Clayton and Carlton are running scared! (No...they're not Donald's nephews.)

How's that Radio Publicity Star sales page converting for ya?

This may come as a bit of a surprise, so I hope your sitting down. Pinching fingers at the ready. Maybe even don another silly hat to brace the impact;

it ain't the layout that does the selling. It's the words.

Where does this stuff come from?

*sigh*

Thomas

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families
STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[409399].message }}

MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

I don't know you, Tom... but I think I like you.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[409409].message }}

tomw 15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

I don't know you, Tom... but I think I like you.

Cheers, Vin!

I'm here all week.

Thomas
- Thanks
Signature
STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families
STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[409454].message }}

JayXtreme

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

I don't know you, Tom... but I think I like you.

He's rather cool, ain't he?...

I like the straight talk from tomw.. and he has a way with words, almost copywriting in itself.. if only we could figure where he swiped his avatar pic, we'd be set for life...lol, because I know it ain't a stock photo..

Peace

Jay

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Bare Murkage.........

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[409525].message }}

tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

He's rather cool, ain't he?...

I like the straight talk from tomw.. and he has a way with words, almost copywriting in itself.. if only we could figure where he swiped his avatar pic, we'd be set for life...lol, because I know it ain't a stock photo..

Peace

Jay

Cheers, Jay. I always liked you because you talk a lot of sense.

Thomas

Thanks

Signature

STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families
STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[409680].message }}

OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[410741].message }}

tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Only someone incredibly MISERABLE and INSECURE would attack people like that.

And how the hell does working as an EMPLOYEE make you "qualified?" Because you worked for a successful company and were TOLD what to do?

HA!

Miserable? Insecure?

LOL!

Having owned and run more than one ad agency over the last ten years, I think I'm pretty qualified...as do our clients.

There are too many threads appearing on this site that are either full of misinformation or are wholly useless. It's becoming a serious problem.

The post of mine that you quoted was over the top..it's been a long day. I apologise. I'll amend it.

The original post, however, is of little or no value for those wanting to truly learn copywriting as I explained in my second post in this thread.

Thomas

Thanks

Signature

STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families
STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[410775].message }}

MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

And Vin... You're certainly entitled to your opinion but IN MY OPINION: the "process" is subordinate to the RESULTS.

Um... two different conversations. My opinion always was that swiping is fine (if you do it right) but it's not writing. I never said anyone had to be a writer to be a marketer. I just pointed out that things should be properly labeled as what they are... And guess what... No matter how much money it may make... it's still not writing.

Creativity is often simply a means to feed the ego.

Maybe for some... but creativity has bought me real estate in 3 states, cars and other niceties... and has supported me since 1984. So you could say it feeds my bank account too.

And let us remember that when all the swiping is said and done... at some point someone actually wrote that letter you swiped from.

You can talk about how you don't have to be creative. Sure YOU don't... but SOMEONE does. Even the overswiped overused and often improperly used "Who else wants..." headline was actually written by someone.

So I guess we all do what we're good at. For some it's swiping successful letters. For me, it's writing successful letters that get swiped.

[ 2 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411103].message }}

MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Creativity is often simply a means to feed the ego.

Interesting point of view.

I see creativity as a way to take whats in my mind and make money from it. In fact, a lot inventions come from creativity. Our evolution depends on creativity (internet is form of creativity).

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

Maybe for some... but creativity has bought me real estate in 3 states, cars and other niceties... and has supported me since 1984. So you could say it feeds my bank account too.

That's one reason that separates the good writers (marketers, businesses) in general, from the wannabe followers. Steven King may have also used creativity at one point to become successful. It may work.

montello learned from some of the best out there- and i'd listen to Montello, because numbers don't lie.

Thanks

Signature

"One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor"

"I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411514].message }}

Dean Dhuli 15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

And let us remember that when all the swiping is said and done... at some point someone actually wrote that letter you swiped from.

You're damn right about that!

Imagine what it'd be like if all copywriters stopped thinking creatively and just stuck with swiping old sales letters.

Even worse, just imagine what it'd be like if everybody(and I mean everybody) stopped thinking creatively. Shocking!
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411646].message }}
- MaskedMarketer 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dean Dhuli
  
  Imagine what it'd be like if all copywriters stopped thinking creatively and just stuck with swiping old sales letters.
  
  You don't have to imagine, just look at the "IM" industry. This isn't meant towards copywriters, but simply the pure unoriginality with the me2 marketers in this industry.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor"
  
  "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411668].message }}

John Rowe

15 years ago

Wow, tough crowd.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[409536].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

I don't think we should be so hard on Mark. Here is what the legendary
David Ogilvy wrote:

It is no bad thing to learn the craft of advertising by Copying your elders and betters. Helmut Krone, one of the most innovative of art directors, has said "I asked one of our writers recently what was more important, doing your own thing or making the ad as good as it can be. The answer was, "Doing my own thing". I disagree violently with that. I'd like to propose a new idea for our age: until you've got a better answer, you copy. I copied Bob Gage for 5 years, I even copied the leading between his lines of type. And Bob originally copied Paul Rand, and Rand first copied a German typographer named Tschichold.
I, too, started by copying. Working in a London agency, I used to copy the best American ads. Later, I began to do my own thing. - Ogilvy on Advertising, p. 88(Emphasis mines)

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[410158].message }}

MontelloMarketing 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

I don't think we should be so hard on Mark. Here is what the legendary
David Ogilvy wrote:

Ogilvy was speaking of swiping... which I already said if you do it right... there's no problem with swiping. It just shouldn't masquerade as writing... it's not writing.
- Thanks
Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[410463].message }}

tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

I don't think we should be so hard on Mark. Here is what the legendary David Ogilvy wrote:

Ray,

maybe you're right. But there are so many threads filled with misinformation and totally useless "wisdom," "systems" and downright nonsense. The OP comes pretty damn close to this.

You have a kind heart, but lending authority to this, especially by quoting such a revered figure, isn't doing those that truly want to learn the wonderful art of copywriting any favours. And that, after all, is what this forum is all about *and* why we're here.

Thomas.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families
STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[410519].message }}

John Rowe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

Raydal... if you are indeed a copywriter and not merely someone selling "how to be a copywriter" ebooks, you'll be fully versed in one of the writer's most important skills. Reading. I suggest you re-read the original post. Carefully.

Well I'm a pretty dumb guy, but I've read it several times and can't seem to see whatever it is you're reading into it.

Sure reads like the OP is saying to teach yourself copywriting by modeling the structure of sales letters you like. Nothing more.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[410672].message }}

MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

the only problem when everyone copies each other... no one stands out.

keep doing what you're doing

really great copy comes from knowlege with the pen, passion, and persuasion

Thanks

Signature

"One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor"

"I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[410226].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Despite the passionate defense of the creative process and what really
constitutes "writing", I see Mark as simply saying that he uses great
sales copy for the TEMPLATE.

He indicates that you would have to replace the writing with, I suppose
WRITING, so in the end you have copied the letters STRUCTURE.

I don't see anything wrong with this. And note that the Oglivy quote
says that's how he STARTED. It IS a great starting point for
copywriters. This is equivalent to the advice of writing out great
copy pieces by hand--you get a feel for the language and structure
of the letter.

This is a higher and more sensible starting point than over 90% of
the people who attempt to write their first sales letter. Even if they
would COPY the layout of a decent sales letter it would help.

I'm all for creativity. I like to be "original". But remember that
King Solomon reminds us that there is NOTHING new under the sun.

Even when we think we are being original, someone did that before
us.

The word "copying" is an insult to any artist, but not to marketers for sure.

-Ray Edwards

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411822].message }}

MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

This is equivalent to the advice of writing out great
copy pieces by hand--you get a feel for the language and structure
of the letter.

The word "copying" is an insult to any artist, but not to marketers for sure.

-Ray Edwards

some of us here just nit pick at everything , dont we !

I could see why his method could be good and bad, but as long as we are all continuing the learning process that's what counts most - imo

And as a marketer I consider myself an artist of the mind and a scientist/mathematician with testing results

Thanks

Signature

"One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor"

"I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411890].message }}

MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

But remember that
King Solomon reminds us that there is NOTHING new under the sun.

Even when we think we are being original, someone did that before
us.

In Television and film, as in other creative endeavors writers are taught that there are only 7 stories (some say 11) and that everything else is merely a variation on those stories. Some say the bible contains all 7 stories... others say shakespeare wrote all 11. Maybe both are true.

So Ray... your basic premise is correct. But here's where you drop the ball in my opinion...

There may be a finite number of stories or templates for stories... but it's the creativity that goes into making the old premise fresh and new, that we call writing.

Boy meets girl. Boy loses girl. Boy gets girl back. Probably the first story ever told. But how can you make them meet? What is it about boy that attracts girl to him? What event splits them... and how do they get back together?

You can't swipe that. It all must be invented by a writer.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411892].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

In Television and film, as in other creative endeavors writers are taught that there are only 7 stories (some say 11) and that everything else is merely a variation on those stories. Some say the bible contains all 7 stories... others say shakespeare wrote all 11. Maybe both are true.

So Ray... your basic premise is correct. But here's where you drop the ball in my opinion...

There may be a finite number of stories or templates for stories... but it's the creativity that goes into making the old premise fresh and new, that we call writing.

Boy meets girl. Boy loses girl. Boy gets girl back. Probably the first story ever told. But how can you make them meet? What is it about boy that attracts girl to him? What event splits them... and how do they get back together?

You can't swipe that. It all must be invented by a writer.

Vin,

I understand your point perfectly and I know that you are arguing
more from a screen writers point of view than copywriting. I think that
you find any suggestions that devalues the effort you put into your
copywriting downright demeaning. But I just don't think that Mark
meant to say--just copy others and you are a writer.

I'm not a "swiper" myself, but this doesn't devalue the good advice
of copying until you discover your own voice / style.

The reason why a WRITER has to be a constant READER is that s/he
really models others with his/her unique twist, although we
may prefer to emphasize the "twisting" above the "modeling".

-Ray

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[411934].message }}

MontelloMarketing 15 years ago

ray...

I think we're dancing around the same maypole here. As I said... swiping is fine. It's just not writing. Maybe it's best and most clear for me to just say that and take all the rest out of the equation.
- Thanks
Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[412107].message }}

MisterEThoughts

15 years ago

This was some great points.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

www.911FreelanceWriting.com - Writing Portfolio

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[414069].message }}

Collette

15 years ago

The difference between Oglivy and your average "swiper" is that Oglivy educated himself in the basic fundamentals of marketing and sales. And, by his own admission, he copied until he had "a better answer".

This suggests that Oglivy knew what he didn't know. And he took steps to fill the knowledge gap. Anyone who has read Oglivy can be sure that he did not simply mindlessly copy someone else's work. He copied, yes - but he also studied WHY and HOW the copy he was copying worked.

And when he understood the WHY and the HOW, Oglivy went off and created some of the most brilliant and "original" ad campaigns ever run.

There is nothing wrong with learning from the greats who have gone before you. There is nothing wrong with building on brilliant ideas conceived by brilliant minds. And there is nothing wrong with following a winning formula, especially when you don't have "a better answer".

In fact, when you don't have a better answer, the most effective thing you can usually do is to imitate good work.

However, great copy - the kind that lesser writers swipe from - is the product of studying, learning, and understanding the WHYs and HOWs of human persuasion.

Nothing great was ever achieved by lazy imitation. Great copy is never the result of cutting and pasting. Perhaps this thread should have been titled "How I Swipe Great Copy". Because "swiping" and "writing" are very different things.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[415804].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

The difference between Oglivy and your average "swiper" is that Oglivy educated himself in the basic fundamentals of marketing and sales. And, by his own admission, he copied until he had "a better answer".

This suggests that Oglivy knew what he didn't know. And he took steps to fill the knowledge gap. Anyone who has read Oglivy can be sure that he did not simply mindlessly copy someone else's work. He copied, yes - but he also studied WHY and HOW the copy he was copying worked.

And when he understood the WHY and the HOW, Oglivy went off and created some of the most brilliant and "original" ad campaigns ever run.

There is nothing wrong with learning from the greats who have gone before you. There is nothing wrong with building on brilliant ideas conceived by brilliant minds. And there is nothing wrong with following a winning formula, especially when you don't have "a better answer".

In fact, when you don't have a better answer, the most effective thing you can usually do is to imitate good work.

However, great copy - the kind that lesser writers swipe from - is the product of studying, learning, and understanding the WHYs and HOWs of human persuasion.

Nothing great was ever achieved by lazy imitation. Great copy is never the result of cutting and pasting. Perhaps this thread should have been titled "How I Swipe Great Copy". Because "swiping" and "writing" are very different things.

You are reading into Ogilvy what you think about him not what he wrote.
He said he COPIED. Read that quote again and see how many times it
said COPY.

He clearly says that he COPIED for five years until he found his own 'voice'.

You are hearing what you want to hear, not what Ogilvy is saying.

-Ray Edwards

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[418635].message }}

Alex.Blue.Green 15 years ago

I am selling ClickBank products and I want to know HOW to find the emotional buttons that appeal to my customers.

I have tried going to forums and blog comments to look at what people are saying on the topic of the CB product I am selling, but that hasnt been very helpful.

I feel like I need to unterstand THEIR emotional selling points, because I am selling things that I wouldn´t buy.

Sincerely,

Alex
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[419503].message }}

Collette

15 years ago

I don't see where I missed that Oglivy said he copied. I refer you, however, to Oglivy's own words, where he says he copied until he had found a better answer.

In other words - until he had learned how to write great copy himself. Or, as you put it, "found his own voice".

It seems that you're trying to support the concept that "great" copy can be achieved by ignorant imitation.

If so, we will have to agree to disagree. Nothing truly "great" is achieved by imitation. I can imitate the architectural drawings of I.M. Pei - but that doesn't mean that I know diddly-squat about constructing a sturdy garden shed, much less a multi-million dollar architectural legacy.

The Internet is littered with people parroting mindless "me too" crap. We are besieged with 57-word headlines that say little or nothing of interest to a prospect. We are innundated by 45-page letters that ramble on forever without ever articulating a single benefit or reward of note. Our eyes - and our intelligence - are rudely assulted by the ignorant use of wide swathes of yellow highlighting, 36 pt blood-red Tahoma font, and an avalanche of hyperbolic adjectives.

This crap is produced by people who have no concept of the WHY or HOW a piece of great copy is written. Worse, this kind of crap is produced by people who have no interest in learning even the basics of producing good, much less great, copy.

And to assure them that copying and pasting is the equal of writing, is an affront and an insult to every copywriter who has worked and sweated to learn their craft.

I encourage new copywriters to learn from the greats who have gone before. I encourage them to study, and yes, copy the greats who have gone before.

But I will never concur that "great" copy can be created by imitation.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[419645].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

I don't see where I missed that Oglivy said he copied. I refer you, however, to Oglivy's own words, where he says he copied until he had found a better answer.

In other words - until he had learned how to write great copy himself. Or, as you put it, "found his own voice".

It seems that you're trying to support the concept that "great" copy can be achieved by ignorant imitation.

You are adding to what I said. No where did I qualify the the copying as "ignorant imitation."

If so, we will have to agree to disagree. Nothing truly "great" is achieved by imitation. I can imitate the architectural drawings of I.M. Pei - but that doesn't mean that I know diddly-squat about constructing a sturdy garden shed, much less a multi-million dollar architectural legacy.

EXCEPT that we all learned language by imitation.

The Internet is littered with people parroting mindless "me too" crap. We are besieged with 57-word headlines that say little or nothing of interest to a prospect. We are innundated by 45-page letters that ramble on forever without ever articulating a single benefit or reward of note. Our eyes - and our intelligence - are rudely assulted by the ignorant use of wide swathes of yellow highlighting, 36 pt blood-red Tahoma font, and an avalanche of hyperbolic adjectives.

This is besides the point of discussion.

This crap is produced by people who have no concept of the WHY or HOW a piece of great copy is written. Worse, this kind of crap is produced by people who have no interest in learning even the basics of producing good, much less great, copy.

Or maybe these people are within the 5-year period of copying that Ogilvy wrote about.

And to assure them that copying and pasting is the equal of writing, is an affront and an insult to every copywriter who has worked and sweated to learn their craft.

The OP said that he just used the letter as a template--everything else was rewritten.

I encourage new copywriters to learn from the greats who have gone before. I encourage them to study, and yes, copy the greats who have gone before.

But I will never concur that "great" copy can be created by imitation.

We are all less "original" than we would want to think.

-Ray Edwards

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[419701].message }}

Collette

15 years ago

Point me to the work of any ONE person who has produced anything great as a result of copying...

Just ONE. I can wait.

I'm not talking about someone who looked at someone else's idea and put a new twist on it. I'm not talking about someone who looked at someone else's template and figured out why it was so effective - and then figured out how to apply the same effective techniques and mechanisms to their own project.

You keep blowing right by this important point: Someone got off their ass and applied their knowledge and creativity to produce something great.

Children learn the words of a language by imitating the sounds they hear. They learn to communicate by understanding what those sounds (words) mean.

I can imitate the sounds of all 171,000+ words in the English language. But unless, and until, I understand what those sounds mean, I could be parroting a string of obscenities, and I would never know.

"Swiping" is one thing. "Copying" is another, entirely different thing. I distinguish between the two. If this thread had been titled "How I swipe great copy" I would have nothing to say.

If you want to denigrate the value of what you do, go right ahead. But please do not equate "copying" with "writing". And please do not tar and feather all copywriters with the same broad brush of mediocrity.

Because some of us actually care about the art and craft of writing.

Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[419996].message }}

Hugh Thyer

15 years ago

I just re-read the original post.

I thought the same thing that you all thought, that this guy was talking about simply ripping off other letters.

But actually, he does clearly say that you replace everything with your own unique information and writing.

Perhaps it didnt come across that way, but if you read it again you'll see that he is simply explaining how he uses the structure of great sales letters as a template. Nothing more.

Of course, this doesnt make you a good copywriter, which I think has caused the confusion. While the structure is important, its not the thing that makes the sales. There are plenty of different structures you can use, but your ability to write the words is the key.

Thanks

Signature

Direct Response Copywriter For Hire

Ever wondered how copywriters work with their clients? I've answered that very question in detail-> www.salescomefirst.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[420026].message }}

OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[420128].message }}

Collette

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

...(Great Copywriters DO NOT and SHOULD NOT possess a SWIPE file!)

How dare anyone take shortcuts!

Success is supposed to be a STRUGGLE and you should be ASHAMED of yourself for looking for an easier path and denigrating your profession...

No one, anywhere on this thread, has said this. No one. Quite the contrary.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[420232].message }}

Collette 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer

I think it was tongue-in-cheek.

At least I hope it was!

One can only hope...
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[420927].message }}

MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

If the plot of your film models a past success... and your film becomes a blockbuster, which grosses millions and brings joy and entertainment to millions... you are NOT a producer. (of course that's NEVER happened)

Actually you ARE a producer... and you're even a writer. This isn't a good analogy.

If the story of your novel in any way resembles a previous bestseller... even if you sell millions of copies and impact millions of people... you are NOT an author. (again, good thing that has NEVER happened)

Um... but you are an author. A hack (as we call them), and one who gets no respect... but still an author.

If you're a motivational speaker and your message is any way similar to one of your mentors or role models...even if you gross 9 figures annually and have changed thousands of lives....you are NOT a real speaker. (Good thing we have such CREATIVE speakers)

Again... not even close. All motivation will at some point overlap. You are a real speaker.

And most importantly, if you SWIPE components of other successful sales letters... even if less than 5% of the actual words end up being the same... and even if you bring in MEGA MONEY and your words convert like gangbusters.... you are NOT a writer.

Oh... you could very well be a writer. Just your fill in the blanks swiping (as outlined originally in this thread) would not be an example of said writing. It would be an example of good swiping.

(Great Copywriters DO NOT and SHOULD NOT possess a SWIPE file!)

Great copywriters do... and MUST possess a swipe file. But they should also possess the knowlege on how to use it. And when they do use it they should call it what it is... swiping. Not what it's not... writing.

Thanks

Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[422475].message }}

OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[424510].message }}

MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

WHY isn't it a good analogy?

What's different about Mel Gibson producing movies that are based on historical events (Braveheart, The Passion, The Patriot...etc) and a Copywriter who bases his sales letter on another successful sales message?

Nothing. The letter was "produced". It wasn't written however. It was a swipe.

Now if you were talking about a screen writer instead of a producer, it's a different argument. A screen writer who bases something on a true story is not necessarily a hack. One who opens up a screenplay in MS Word, and goes in replacing dialog and action with similar but different action and dialog IS a hack... and not even a writer at all. He's a fill-in-the-blanker.

To call that writing would be the same as filling out a Madlib with some adjectives and nouns and calling it a short story you wrote.

And truth be told I don't think a script can be written that way. Not one that is ever sold at least.

Huh? Tell that to the fans who wait hours for an autograph.

Huh? Why are we now talking about fans? Hacks have fans. Doesn't make them any less hacky.

And WHY are you an Author if you're work is based on something else but you are NOT a copywriter if your sales message is not 100% original?

I never said a damn thing about 100% original. I said what this guy was doing was not writing. It was swiping.

Yeah, I know. But how is Tony Robbins SWIPING some of his teachings from Jim Rohn any different than Dan Kennedy swiping some of his copy from Robert Collier. You haven't explained WHY when Tony Robbins swipes he is a speaker, but when Dan swipes he is not a writer.

You'll have to ask a speaker about that. I really can only speak about writers, and shouldn't have even given my opinion about Robbins.

And again... nothing wrong with swiping. It's just not writing. That doesn't mean he's not a writer. It means he isn't writing in that particular situation.

Okay... so GREAT copywriters MUST possess a swipe file but when they actually USE it they are no longer a writer?

Where are you getting this from? Of course you use your swipe file. Every good copwriter uses one. But as he described his method... it's wholesale swiping... not writing.

--

I know that you're a great copywriter and I like your style for sure...

But is that really the best you can do to prove your case that if you swipe you're not a CopyWRITER?

I don't think I said anyone wasn't a copywriter. I said what he was describing (and as others described it) it wasn't writing. And I don't have to prove anything. I came in to give my opinion.

I'll state now for the 5th time... There is nothing wrong with swiping. Let me add even more to that in case someone isn't 100% clear... Someone I know and respect, Harlan Kilstein swipes in a way that is similar to what was brought up in this thread. He'll be the first to tell you that most who try it without knowing what they're doing will make a mess of it. In many cases they will end up plagerizing.

But you know what? Harlan calls it what it is. And he's among the best at doing it right. But he's also unapologetic about his methods. He gets tremendous results (because he knows what he's doing), and doesn't care a lick about the craftsmanship of a piece of work. That's because Harlan's a marketer and a damn fine one.

Some of us, on the other hand are writers. We craft... we toil... we spend weeks to write a single letter. (John Carlton has said he sometimes takes 12 weeks to write a letter) There is no right school or wrong school here. There's just honesty and calling a spade a spade.

Thanks

Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[424863].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

Point me to the work of any ONE person who has produced anything great as a result of copying...

Just ONE. I can wait.

I'm not talking about someone who looked at someone else's idea and put a new twist on it. I'm not talking about someone who looked at someone else's template and figured out why it was so effective - and then figured out how to apply the same effective techniques and mechanisms to their own project.

You keep blowing right by this important point: Someone got off their ass and applied their knowledge and creativity to produce something great.

Children learn the words of a language by imitating the sounds they hear. They learn to communicate by understanding what those sounds (words) mean.

I can imitate the sounds of all 171,000+ words in the English language. But unless, and until, I understand what those sounds mean, I could be parroting a string of obscenities, and I would never know.

"Swiping" is one thing. "Copying" is another, entirely different thing. I distinguish between the two. If this thread had been titled "How I swipe great copy" I would have nothing to say.

If you want to denigrate the value of what you do, go right ahead. But please do not equate "copying" with "writing". And please do not tar and feather all copywriters with the same broad brush of mediocrity.

Because some of us actually care about the art and craft of writing.

And you are missing the point that the OP said that he WRITES his own
stuff but use the letter as an OUTLINE a TEMPLATE.

Everybody, even the creative hard working ones are standing on the shoulders
of others.

Name one person? --- William Shakespeare -- he got all his plots from the Bible.

Every "discovery" is simply mimicking nature --electricity, flight, bridge building ....

And children learn to use language before they could understand what they are
saying. In otherwords language acquisition comes before grammar.

-Ray Edwards

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[420399].message }}

Collette

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

And you are missing the point that the OP said that he WRITES his own
stuff but use the letter as an OUTLINE a TEMPLATE.

Title of the thread: "How Do I Write Great Copy?..."

The OP admits he doesn't write great copy. He swipes it. He cuts and pastes, and then goes back and changes the details. He may come out of this process with a decent enough piece of copy - depending on his own writing skills - but, in the end, what has he learned? If he understood the mechanics of how the copy was constructed, the reason why one specific technique was used and not another, or why the copy was written to flow in that particular way...

... THEN he would be teaching himself to be a great copywriter. And in the end, he wouldn't have to copy and paste. He could write his own "great" copy. Because he would understand how it's done.

Originally Posted by Raydal

Name one person? --- William Shakespeare -- he got all his plots from the Bible.

Your source for this? No one really knows who Shakespeare was. In fact, Shakespearean scholars have argued for a couple of centuries now about the identity (or identities) of Will Shakespeare. Or if the man even existed at all. Almost nothing is known about the playwright, his family, or his acquaintances.

Additionally, all of Shakespeare's historical plays were most certainly NOT taken from the Bible, but based on actual events of English and Scottish history. (The Battle of Agincourt, for example, actually happened - and not in Judea or Egypt). Among his other plays, A Midsummer Night's Dream is actually inspired by Geoffrey Chaucer's "A Knight's Tale" from his Canterbury Tales. King Lear is derived from a legend of a Gaelic King - Lier - retold by Geoffrey of Monmouth, a 12th century English historian. Othello is based on a short story written by an Italian novelist. As You Like It - based on a romantic novel by 16th century English novelist, Thomas Lodge.

And that's just for starters...

Originally Posted by Raydal

Every "discovery" is simply mimicking nature --electricity, flight, bridge building .... .

And your point is... what? That we learn by observing? The operative word here is "learn".

If we simply mimicked nature - simply imitated nature - humans would be trying to grow fur to cover their bodies, instead of wearing clothes. If the Wright brothers and others had not sought to learn and understand the properties of lift and drag, people would trying to fly by simply spreading their arms and jumping off cliffs.

The "discovery" in copywriting is learning and understanding what makes a piece of copy "great".

Originally Posted by Raydal

And children learn to use language before they could understand what they are
saying. In otherwords language acquisition comes before grammar.

-Ray Edwards

I never mentioned grammar. Where did I say anything about grammar? I pointed out that words are nothing more than a random collection of sounds until those sounds are ascribed meaning. For example, sign language is a just a random collection of gestures, unless the user and the recipient both ascribe the same or a similar meaning to a particular gesture.

Children learn sounds by imitation. However, they learn to USE language when they corelate a meaning to a sound. They learn that making a specific sound gets them a specific result. If I gave a child a bottle of milk, and repeated the word "bread" as I did so, the child would come to assume that a cylindrical object filled with a tasty white liquid substance is called "bread". And that exactly how the child would ask for a bottle of milk.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[420914].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

Title of the thread: "How Do I Write Great Copy?..."

The OP admits he doesn't write great copy. He swipes it. He cuts and pastes, and then goes back and changes the details. He may come out of this process with a decent enough piece of copy - depending on his own writing skills - but, in the end, what has he learned? If he understood the mechanics of how the copy was constructed, the reason why one specific technique was used and not another, or why the copy was written to flow in that particular way...

... THEN he would be teaching himself to be a great copywriter. And in the end, he wouldn't have to copy and paste. He could write his own "great" copy. Because he would understand how it's done.

Your source for this? No one really knows who Shakespeare was. In fact, Shakespearean scholars have argued for a couple of centuries now about the identity (or identities) of Will Shakespeare. Or if the man even existed at all. Almost nothing is known about the playwright, his family, or his acquaintances.

Additionally, all of Shakespeare's historical plays were most certainly NOT taken from the Bible, but based on actual events of English and Scottish history. (The Battle of Agincourt, for example, actually happened - and not in Judea or Egypt). Among his other plays, A Midsummer Night's Dream is actually inspired by Geoffrey Chaucer's "A Knight's Tale" from his Canterbury Tales. King Lear is derived from a legend of a Gaelic King - Lier - retold by Geoffrey of Monmouth, a 12th century English historian. Othello is based on a short story written by an Italian novelist. As You Like It - based on a romantic novel by 16th century English novelist, Thomas Lodge.

And that's just for starters...

And your point is... what? That we learn by observing? The operative word here is "learn".

If we simply mimicked nature - simply imitated nature - humans would be trying to grow fur to cover their bodies, instead of wearing clothes. If the Wright brothers and others had not sought to learn and understand the properties of lift and drag, people would trying to fly by simply spreading their arms and jumping off cliffs.

The "discovery" in copywriting is learning and understanding what makes a piece of copy "great".

I never mentioned grammar. Where did I say anything about grammar? I pointed out that words are nothing more than a random collection of sounds until those sounds are ascribed meaning. For example, sign language is a just a random collection of gestures, unless the user and the recipient both ascribe the same or a similar meaning to a particular gesture.

Children learn sounds by imitation. However, they learn to USE language when they corelate a meaning to a sound. They learn that making a specific sound gets them a specific result. If I gave a child a bottle of milk, and repeated the word "bread" as I did so, the child would come to assume that a cylindrical object filled with a tasty white liquid substance is called "bread". And that exactly how the child would ask for a bottle of milk.

It's difficult discussing this subject because each time you add a new element.

My point was that children use language before they knew the rules the same
way that you vcan learn to write copy by imitation before you know the rules.

And that's a lot of information to know about Shakespeare who was unknown.

The bottom line is that we all imitate before we create.

-Ray

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[421096].message }}

Collette 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

It's difficult discussing this subject because each time you add a new element.

Ray - I responded to your post. I added nothing new.

Originally Posted by Raydal

My point was that children use language before they knew the rules the same
way that you vcan learn to write copy by imitation before you know the rules.

We have a different definition of "use". And "learn". You don't learn by imitating. You only "learn" when you understand what you imitate. Until then, you are imitating.

Originally Posted by Raydal

And that's a lot of information to know about Shakespeare who was unknown..

8 years of studying the plays and the playwright. You want Shakespeare? I can give you Shakespeare until you beg for mercy.

Originally Posted by Raydal

The bottom line is that we all imitate before we create.

-Ray

Finally - something we can agree on.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[421137].message }}

MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

Name one person? --- William Shakespeare -- he got all his plots from the Bible.

It's what William did with those stories that make him a writer.

Every "discovery" is simply mimicking nature --electricity, flight, bridge building...

Jet propulsion? The H Bomb? The Locomotive? What in nature were they mimicking?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[422490].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

It's what William did with those stories that make him a writer.

Jet propulsion? The H Bomb? The Locomotive? What in nature were they mimicking?

Jet propulsion? Amoeba and other singular cell organisms

The H Bomb? The Sun

The Locomotive? (Steam, Deisel or Electric?

) Have to think about this one ... but all the mechanical principles used here can be found in nature.

-Ray

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[422606].message }}

MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

I may be "simple" but I don't get the connection to amoeba at all. Please explain how amoeba inspired jet propulsion.

And sure it's easy to say the hbomb was mimicking the sun... is there any proof the scientists were mimicking the sun? Did they spread out on the table a schematic for the sun, and follow it, just changing the numbers? You have to agree that would be more like swiping than say... "Hmmm... birds fly with wings, man could fly with wings too. In fact when the earliest attempts were made for man'd flight, the mimicking of the flapping motion is was what made them fail.

Originally Posted by Raydal

Jet propulsion? Amoeba and other singular cell organisms

The H Bomb? The Sun

The Locomotive? (Steam, Deisel or Electric?

) Have to think about this one ... but all the mechanical principles used here can be found in nature.

-Ray

Edited to add: How bout you give us the mechanical examples for each? I'm guessing (based on your earlier answers) Steam was inspired by geysers? Electric by static? Or maybe lightning? Deisel by forrest fires?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[422789].message }}

Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

I may be "simple" but I don't get the connection to amoeba at all. Please explain how amoeba inspired jet propulsion.

And sure it's easy to say the hbomb was mimicking the sun... is there any proof the scientists were mimicking the sun? Did they spread out on the table a schematic for the sun, and follow it, just changing the numbers? You have to agree that would be more like swiping than say... "Hmmm... birds fly with wings, man could fly with wings too. In fact when the earliest attempts were made for man'd flight, the mimicking of the flapping motion is was what made them fail.

Edited to add: How bout you give us the mechanical examples for each? I'm guessing (based on your earlier answers) Steam was inspired by geysers? Electric by static? Or maybe lightning? Deisel by forrest fires?

Check this out Vin:

Biomimicry -- a word derived from bios, meaning "life," and
mimesis, meaning "to imitate" -- refers to the study of nature's
successful design solutions and the imitation of these designs
and processes to solve human problems. There are many examples of
human-engineered applications and living things that exhibit
similar fundamental characteristics. Sometimes, this happens
unintentionally: think of the similarities between a canoe or
kayak paddle and a freshwater turtle leg. At other times, the
inventor deliberately mimicked something in nature.

Velcro®, known generically as "hook and loop" fasteners, was
invented in 1948 by a Swiss engineer, George de Mestral. On
returning from a walk with his dog, de Mestral noticed his dog
and his trouser legs were covered with seed pods from a
cocklebur, a tall weedy plant. Studying a single seed pod under a
microscope, he noted it was covered with tiny hooks that readily
attached to animal fur or fabric fibers that brushed against it.
De Mestral applied the plant's simple but clever seed dispersal
strategy to create a strong, safe, easy-to-use, and temporary
fastener that could be used in place of shoelaces and zippers.
The word "Velcro®" is a combination of "vel-," from the French
velours, meaning "velvet", and "-cro," from crochet, which means
"hook."

Considering the vast biological diversity on Earth, there is
enormous potential for innovation inspired by nature. Research
and development is ongoing in a number of engineering fields,
including:

Aeronautics -- Engineers are looking to successful designs found
in nature to build faster, safer, and more efficient flying
machines with wings that twist for steering and wing surfaces
that "morph" or change in shape in response to variable in-flight
conditions.

Robotics -- Using insights gained by observing insect flight,
engineers are designing a class of miniature unmanned aerial
vehicles that can take off from and land in a standing position,
fly at very low speeds, and hover like a dragonfly.

Bioengineering -- A spider's silk web is light, flexible, and
strong. Pound for pound, it is three times stronger than steel.
Potential applications for an engineered version include seat
belts, bulletproof vests, human ligaments, and construction
material.
-http://www.teachersdomain.org/resource/eng06.sci.engin.design.biomimicry/

The wings of airplanes are designed like that of birds -the cross-section.

-Ray

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[423808].message }}

MontelloMarketing 15 years ago

Ray,

I "get" biomimicry. That's not my issue. If I'm correct you said "every "discovery" is simply mimicking nature --electricity, flight, bridge building ...."

I can't say it's not true, because I don't know. But you surely haven't proven it. Sure... according to what you quoted aeronautic engineers are looking to nature to come up with better ways to fly. It says nothing about them having done that to discover rocket propulsion or anything else.

Okay, maybe the wing thing is a gimme... but man there is so much that is not... can not be inspired from nature.
- Thanks
Signature

The Montello Group
Copywriting|Publishing|Training
Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
CLICK HERE!
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[424223].message }}

John Rowe 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

You keep blowing right by this important point: Someone got off their ass and applied their knowledge and creativity to produce something great.

Collette,

I don't mean to be a dick here, but the copy from your current WSO doesn't seem overly creative to me. The structure and each message look fairly unoriginal, maybe even swiped, without all the thought, learning, and creativity you keep preaching about to Ray.

------------------------------------------

[BLANK]
And [BLANK]
With This Powerful [BLANK] Report

[BLANK],

Are you sick and tired of wasting your [BLANK]? Are you discouraged by [BLANK] that just doesn't [BLANK]? Do you spend far too much time struggling to [BLANK]?

If you...

- Are ready to [BLANK], [BLANK], and [BLANK]

- Want to [BLANK]

- Want a [BLANK]

- And if you can you handle a [BLANK]-step system so easy a 5th grader could use it to [BLANK] then...

Click Here Now

------------------------------------------

Just sayin'.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[420964].message }}
- Collette 15 years ago
  
  Let me assure you John, that copy is neither "great", nor is it swiped. Nor, indeed, is it copied.
  
  Apparently, like far too many aspiring Internet marketers, you are confusing "overdone hype" with "great". It's a $17 report in answer to the many, many questions I've seen here about headlines. You were maybe hoping for a 57-word headline and a 45-page letter? Sorry to disappoint. Better luck next time, but don't hold your breath.
  
  And maybe... just maybe... you're not my prospect.
  
  Please point me to the post where I tell aspiring copywriters to copy and paste MY work because "I write great copy". Let me give you a hint: there isn't one. When there is, I'll be sure to let you know.
  
  In the meantime, I'm just gonna keep learning and increasing my skills. So that I can keep delivering response rates of 22% and better for my clients. None of whom are in IM, by the way.
  
  If you want to question my credentials, by all means do so. Openly. You want to see my portfolio, ask me for it. You want to know if I know my shit, contact me for a consultation.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[421113].message }}

cd928

15 years ago

I'm fine with swiping. I actually keep good brochures and other advertising materials to show me good examples of how things should be done.

However, I have to disagree with Mark on copy-pasting the entire copy and re-writing it to fit the needs of the copywriter. Surely you can do better than that, Mark.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[421185].message }}

jayden.fellze

15 years ago

Hi,

I think you are playing here with fire dude. On papers your idea looks good and fool proof but let me tell you, copying doesn't enhance our creativity it kills it. With this way, you will never be able to create your own style of copy writing and will be stuck with a mish-mash of many writing styles.

Your idea does sound good when you need a copy in urgently and you don't have time to be overly creative. But in the long run, you must stop copying and rewriting and try to write original copies.

Thanks

Signature

>> FREE Report: 100 Targeted Visitors/Day From Scratch In 2 Months <<

.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[422206].message }}

Anthonyaa

15 years ago

I must say that this is good inspiration. It is also valuable information, and one of the easier ways to write your own page.

Mark you are a genius, I needed this information more than you may know. Thank you for sharing with us all.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[423034].message }}

theinfomaven

15 years ago

Great writing, for any purpose, comes from the inside out, mixed with a bit of craftiness & intuition.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[424355].message }}

Alwayscool

15 years ago

Where is the OP guy who started this discussion? He was not seen here in last 6 days and we are discussing on his thoughts.. lol.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[425105].message }}

Dimitris

15 years ago

i think no one has really posted here regarding the topic

Thanks

Signature

>>ALL MANUAL SEO Service<< Handwritten Content on All Layers [Safe Forever] Limited Discount Copies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[426824].message }}

steve m

15 years ago

This realyy has nothing to do with the dispute in this post but, could some one please show me 2 different pages. One that has briliant copy, and one thats copy is rubbish. I'm intregied to see the differance.

Steve

Thanks

Signature

ccleaner

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[427595].message }}

How Do I Write Great Copy? Simple...

Trending Topics

Been a while! Any of you Old Timers here?

How much does the rebranding affect CR ?

Are billboards still effective in driving customers?

Boat and Jet Ski Rentals...... Door Hangers Effective?

A Very Strange Internet Problem