Looking for a good copywriter

12 years ago

Refresh content? You are probably looking in the wrong place.

Copywriters do not, as a general rule, refresh content.

Tips If You're Looking For a Copywriter / the Difference Between a Copywriter and an Article Writer

Could be, the reason you need to refresh content is tied to the confusion between copy and content writing ...and the difference between upping your SERP rank and upping your sales.

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toorg

12 years ago

hi guys, thank you for the replays, my websites have landing pages that are my sales pages for customer that search for our services.
you think that content writer will sell the services we offer well as copywriter and will increase our conversion?

we offer 3-4 main services, just like any other hvac company.

also i didn't get the part that copywriter isn't good with words?

for the sites that need content refresh i agree, content writer will do it but for the new site we build that need's 4-5 sales pages don't you think i need a copywriter? even though we sell services and not products (if that makes a different)

Thanks
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Mark Andrews

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by toorg

also i didn't get the part that copywriter isn't good with words?

for the sites that need content refresh i agree, content writer will do it but for the new site we build that need's 4-5 sales pages don't you think i need a copywriter? even though we sell services and not products (if that makes a different)

He can likely only speak for himself, who knows?

All of the professional copywriters on this forum and elsewhere are wordsmith wizards especially when it comes to salesmanship-in-print.

A copywriter naturally has a very good understanding of psychology and one only has to look at any of the top copywriters personal websites on this forum to understand what he stated as fact, is not true at all. Far from it.

If it were true, what he stated as 'fact'... how on earth could these professional copywriters charge $100 per hour (and the rest) for their writing skills, if they're 'not good with words'?

The comment basically screams out 'newbie copywriter' who doesn't know, no offense, what they're talking about.

As I'm sure you're aware... a copywriter persuades people (the target market) to buy goods, products, and services. S/he uses there highly persuasive written language to connect very strongly with the target audience to direct them into a direct course of action.

A content writer on the other hand merely informs an audience. This is the difference between a content writer and a copywriter.

If you're looking for a copywriter, one who understand the art of writing highly persuasive sales triggers, by all means make contact now... SmokingHotCopy@gmail.com

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view...file_name_link

Best,

Mark Andrews

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arfasaira

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

I think you need a content writer.

A copywriter is not someone good with words. A copywriter is a salesman in print.
A creative writer is someone who can come up with innovative ways to express a certain point or idea.
A ghostwriter is a person specialized in writing fiction and non fiction books.

And what you need, a content writer, can write content (SEO optimized or not) about almost any topic on the earth.

Another difference between a content writer and a copywriter?
The first one costs $10/hour.
The second one $100/hour.

Razvan

Copywriters not good with words?

And this is coming from someone offering no B.S copywriting advice?

And you are WHO on the authority of copywriting?

:rolleyes:

Say what?

Probably explains why we can charge what we like, whereas content writers charge a pittance...

...because we can actually write clearly, concisely, persuasively and brilliantly?

Goodness me, what is the world coming to?

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RazvanRogoz

12 years ago

I don't know why everyone needs to be so difficult around here.

My intention was to say that a copywriter focuses on salesmanship and less on creativity.

It's easier to turn a salesman into a copywriter than it's to turn a writer into a salesman.

I'm tired of the so called "masters of the universe" around here. Save your time and don't bother to reply.

I should have explained the meaning behind my words but this doesn't mean that everyone here should act this.

Razvan

PS: I guess that "master" copywriters need to intimidate and bully others around here to get a project or to build their credibility

.

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Adnimated

12 years ago

Oh really?

I always thought a copywriter was the most creative of the bunch. Silly me.

Copywriting is one of the most creative types of writing you can do. Good copywriters are usually good content writers, too. You can't get better content as that of a good copywriter. As they write to sell. And a typical article writer only informs. Often with very uninspiring words.

Copywriting is a skill. Almost an art.

Article writing is a craft.

You need a bit of skills for it. But not much, proven by the many people who offer their article writing services out there.

@OP: Your best bet would be checking out the "warriors for hire" section here. And read the reviews. I saw a few good ones. Which I'm definitely going to try.

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

I don't know why everyone needs to be so difficult around here.

My intention was to say that a copywriter focuses on salesmanship and less on creativity.

It's easier to turn a salesman into a copywriter than it's to turn a writer into a salesman.

I'm tired of the so called "masters of the universe" around here. Save your time and don't bother to reply.

I should have explained the meaning behind my words but this doesn't mean that everyone here should act this.

Razvan

PS: I guess that "master" copywriters need to intimidate and bully others around here to get a project or to build their credibility

.

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EricMN

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

I don't know why everyone needs to be so difficult around here.

My intention was to say that a copywriter focuses on salesmanship and less on creativity.

It's easier to turn a salesman into a copywriter than it's to turn a writer into a salesman.

I'm tired of the so called "masters of the universe" around here. Save your time and don't bother to reply.

I should have explained the meaning behind my words but this doesn't mean that everyone here should act this.

Razvan

PS: I guess that "master" copywriters need to intimidate and bully others around here to get a project or to build their credibility

.

Although I may agree with the salesman to copywriter reference, that's about all I agree with.

We aren't being difficult -- you are belittling our craft.

If anything, copywriters are masters of words, because we know which ones to use and which ones not to. AND we've measured how they alter human behaviour directly. . . down to the letter.

How could you not expect retaliation?

And you weren't "bullied". You were called out on a silly statement.

Sincerely,

He-Man

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Mark Andrews

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

I don't know why everyone needs to be so difficult around here.

My intention was to say that a copywriter focuses on salesmanship and less on creativity.

It's easier to turn a salesman into a copywriter than it's to turn a writer into a salesman.

I'm tired of the so called "masters of the universe" around here. Save your time and don't bother to reply.

I should have explained the meaning behind my words but this doesn't mean that everyone here should act this.

Razvan

PS: I guess that "master" copywriters need to intimidate and bully others around here to get a project or to build their credibility

.

Get away with you lad. If you had the intention to state something, the onus is on you as the copywriter to persuade people to understand your point clearly - just so there is no confusion.

This is your direct call to action, to write authoritatively, clearly, and accurately to bring others around to your point of view.

Failing massively in this regard you revert to the old line, "Everyone's bullying me. If you haven't got anything positive to say, don't post at all."

The point is Razvan, yours was the very negative and completely off base remark, everyone else here was being positive pointing this out to you but obviously your ego wants to take this the wrong way. (Typical newbie behavior)

Everyone else here, we've already built credibility... it's only newbie copywriters who are still struggling with this hence why sometimes, they don't give such good advice as the veteran copywriters who already enjoy a good name and attract top dollar clients.

Think about it Razvan.

Best,

Mark Andrews

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

A ghostwriter is a person specialized in writing fiction and non fiction books.

Say what??? Wrong, wrong, wrong. From Wikipedia -

A ghostwriter is a professional writer who is paid to write books, articles, stories, reports, or other texts that are officially credited to another person. Celebrities, executives, and political leaders often hire ghostwriters to draft or edit autobiographies, magazine articles, or other written material.

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CopyWriteHer

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

I think you need a content writer.

A creative writer is someone who can come up with innovative ways to express a certain point or idea.

Razvan

If the goal of using words to express a product or service is making sales, isn't that copywriting?

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RazvanRogoz

12 years ago

STOP for a second ...

What I'm saying here is that a copywriter is not a writer by definition. A copywriter should not be as skilled as Hemingway.

I'm not saying that he should not know how to use the English language (or whatever native language you may have) to sell. I'm saying that his main focus is to sell.

As a copywriter ... as a marketer ... you focus on improving the conversion.

You focus on things like ...
market research
emotional research
how to build the perfect offer
how to build a logical sales argument ...

The research phase is 40%.
The offer is 40%.
The actual copy is only 20%.

And admit it or not, you can suck at writing and still sell for millions.

Why? Get the first two phases right.
Build a logical sales argument. And then just outsource the rest to a writer.

If you get the research phase right and the offer right, you can be a mediocre writer.

If you get the research and offer wrong, you can be better than Stephen King, your copy will still bomb.

End of discussion for me. Everyone sees this in their own eyes. But last time I remember, none of my clients gave a damn about my use of creativity in copywriting. They cared only about the conversion rate.

My mistake was summarizing a long argument in four or five words. And no matter what Wikipedia or any copy guru around here has to say, I am convinced that using effective sales devices and strategies is far more important than being a cool writer.

It's the difference between entertaining and selling. Between being glamorous and effective.

Razvan

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arfasaira

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

STOP for a second ...

What I'm saying here is that a copywriter is not a writer by definition. A copywriter should not be as skilled as Hemingway.

I'm not saying that he should not know how to use the English language (or whatever native language you may have) to sell. I'm saying that his main focus is to sell.

As a copywriter ... as a marketer ... you focus on improving the conversion.

You focus on things like ...
market research
emotional research
how to build the perfect offer
how to build a logical sales argument ...

The research phase is 40%.
The offer is 40%.
The actual copy is only 20%.

And admit it or not, you can suck at writing and still sell for millions.

Why? Get the first two phases right.
Build a logical sales argument. And then just outsource the rest to a writer.

If you get the research phase right and the offer right, you can be a mediocre writer.

If you get the research and offer wrong, you can be better than Stephen King, your copy will still bomb.

End of discussion for me. Everyone sees this in their own eyes. But last time I remember, none of my clients gave a damn about my use of creativity in copywriting. They cared only about the conversion rate.

My mistake was summarizing a long argument in four or five words. And no matter what Wikipedia or any copy guru around here has to say, I am convinced that using effective sales devices and strategies is far more important than being a cool writer.

It's the difference between entertaining and selling. Between being glamorous and effective.

Razvan

No need to get your knickers in a twist :p

I GET what your saying, but what you DON'T get is that copywriting is the VEHICLE for selling - and what on earth is this? (covers ears in horror!)

What I'm saying here is that a copywriter is not a writer by definition

You're doing the EXACT same thing you did before. Trust me, copywriters can most certainly write just about anything, while content writers cannot.

And what, pray sir is THIS abomination?

'Why? Get the first two phases right.
Build a logical sales argument. And then just outsource the rest to a writer.'

I have yet to see a 'writer' write superb copy just because you built a logical sales argument or got the offer spot on.

Any old writer can't write copy the way a copywriter can. I should know, I started out as a 'writer' (and before you pipe up another interjection, I'd been writing for 15 years AND have been published not once, but SEVERAL times).

The difference between a writer and a copywriter is like the night vs the day. No comparison. Absolutely NONE.

And since when has anyone ever outsourced everything to a writer and said - 'here you go, I did the research, got a blinding offer for you and now you just stick it into a half decent copy.'

No disrespect to you Razvan, you're trying to make an impression, and I fully respect that.

But, you need to accept when you make a mistake - after all, we ALL do it, even the most experienced of us here

AND yes, you make a fair point about conversion rates blah blah, but there are hundreds of reasons WHY a copy bombs, and NOT because of the copywriter at all.

I had a client sending cold traffic straight to his sales page and wondering why his copy had bombed despite spending lots of money to have the copy written. When I looked at it, I realized one thing - the copy was not to blame, his marketing was.

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Andrew Gould

12 years ago

With Hemingway's name being brought up, I think this related piece of copy from Ed McLean does a suitable job of demonstrating that good writing and sales copy can go hand-in-hand. (The full salesletter did 4% to cold lists according to HG Lewis).

You feel a jolt on the line and it whips up and out of the water as your reel screams. A hundred feet back, an immense blue monster explodes from the sea, thrashing from side to side, walking on its tail toward you before plunging from sight.

"Marlin!" shouts the mate from the fly bridge. The rod bends and you suck in your breath, bracing yourself. You set the drag and the line straightens. You crank the reel in, then abruptly let out slack. Someone yells advice and encouragement but you can't understand a word of it.

Your mind, your body, your entire being are concentrated on just that one thing now. And that is to win the battle that has begun.

It could go on for hours or end suddenly, in minutes, with a snapped line or slipped hook. But, for as long as this struggle lasts, you'll give it everything you've got.

When the battle is over and you've vanquished your marlin, you ask the mate to tag and release it - to help make sure future generations of sportfishermen are not denied the sheer enjoyment of doing battle, as you have, with a might creature of the sea.

Sheer enjoyment: that's what Marlin, the magazine of big game fishing, is all about. And if that's what you're looking for in the favorite sport of Ernest Hemingway, Zane Grey and other seekers of adventure, I hope you'll accept our special money-saving offer.

P.S. Frank Herbert, the author of sci-fi classic Dune, worked as a copywriter...

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Andrew Gould

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Pusateri 12 years ago

Originally Posted by RazvanRogoz

The research phase is 40%.
The offer is 40%.
The actual copy is only 20%.

Is this by volume or by weight?
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Looking for a good copywriter

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