How much time do you spend THINKING when you write copy?

21 replies
Hey warriors.

This is one of my first real posts here on the forum.

I decided to make a thread about a topic that's been on my mind lately; specifically, the amount of thought that goes into writing a really good sales page or sales letter.

My background is in writing. I started out writing for newspapers, migrating to website content and eventually copywriting. The reason copywriting appealed to me was because every day was a new adventure. Writing web content, it's easy to get stuck writing the same page over and over again. With copywriting, no two clients are the same, and every article you write is different from the one you wrote before. So that's one big difference I noticed between (web) article writing and copywriting.

However, there's another difference I've noticed too. I've noticed that with copywriting, it's way more important to really put a hell of a lot of thought into what you're saying. You know the client wants this piece to really help them lock down sales they wouldn't otherwise get, so you have to make it really stand out. it can't just be informative and well written, it has to "sell the sizzle" to the client's "steak." It has been said that some of the best copywriters will spend DAYS just thinking about the headline of a piece. I can definitely see why. When I write sales copy, I definitely spend way more time thinking than actually writing. the three main things I think about are

1) Headlines and sub-headlines, making sure they simultaneously attract attention and tell the reader what's coming in the next block of text.

2) Building a personal tone in the page/letter, making sure I come across as friendly even when building a sense of urgency

3) making sure the stuff "sounds" good, having rhythm, alliteration and other things

One thing I recommend every copywriter do is to put at least two minutes of thought for every minute you spend writing. This helps to ensure your copy comes out clean, clear and concise every time!
#copy #spend #thinking #time #write
  • Profile picture of the author EricMN
    Well my internet decided to cut out as I hit submit and conveniently wipe out my elaborate post, but to summarize. . .

    I put very little thought into what I write while I'm writing it.

    But why would I interrupt my writing with distractions? I already know how to write persuasively, I know which psychological mechanisms to use, and I know how to combine them for an effective piece.

    Conversational copy comes to mind. A good salesman can close a sale in person. When is the last time you were sold on something when the person selling it to you paused continuously to think?

    It can damage the flow, voice, and quality of the copy.

    In the words of ultra successful, multimillionaire science fiction novelist Kevin Anderson -- Write in the writing phase. Edit in the editing phase.

    But that's just while I'm writing. I can afford to do this because I have done all of the research that goes into writing the copy before hand. So I have those materials, I have "strategized" already.

    Research, prep, think before you write. Think, edit, test after you write.

    So yes, thought is crucial. . . if put in the right places. For me, at least.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
      I stare out of the window an awful lot.

      --- Ross
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      • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
        Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

        I stare out of the window an awful lot.

        --- Ross
        Thanks. I'm not alone.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
      Originally Posted by EricMN View Post

      Well my internet decided to cut out as I hit submit and conveniently wipe out my elaborate post, but to summarize. . .

      I put very little thought into what I write while I'm writing it.

      But why would I interrupt my writing with distractions? I already know how to write persuasively, I know which psychological mechanisms to use, and I know how to combine them for an effective piece.

      Conversational copy comes to mind. A good salesman can close a sale in person. When is the last time you were sold on something when the person selling it to you paused continuously to think?

      It can damage the flow, voice, and quality of the copy.

      In the words of ultra successful, multimillionaire science fiction novelist Kevin Anderson -- Write in the writing phase. Edit in the editing phase.

      But that's just while I'm writing. I can afford to do this because I have done all of the research that goes into writing the copy before hand. So I have those materials, I have "strategized" already.

      Research, prep, think before you write. Think, edit, test after you write.

      So yes, thought is crucial. . . if put in the right places. For me, at least.
      Yeah, I definitely agree. I find it's especially important to plan if you're writing something longer than 2000 words.
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      • Profile picture of the author Doceye
        I stare at Ross looking out his window.

        And man, the pay telescope time to get a good view of him in Philly from SLC, UT is adding up.

        Seriously, the writing part is easy. And it gets made waaaay easier by how long I feed my conscious mind every freakin' detail and tidbit I can about what I'm writing about.

        Then I let my subconscious play with that mess for as long as it takes. Usually two to four days. Then I puke the copy out.

        I think I've read Halbert and others have done the same; but that's not why I do it. I do it because it works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Falknersjf
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
      I review my research material and swipe files.

      Then I let this material sink into my mind for a few days.

      After a few days, I just write my copy. Then I stay away from my copy for a day or two. After that, I edit my copy and improve it.
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  • Profile picture of the author clr06160
    Good copy is takes time, but it is almost impossible for a computer to tell good copy from bad. So, most people spend a lot of time on some pages and almost none on others.
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  • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
    How much time do you spend THINKING when you write copy?
    All of it. Every last second of time is spent thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Well as soon as I learn about the project until it is
    converting at the best level. Most of the time is
    spent ruminating about the copy before even a word
    is written.

    Inspiration often comes early in the morning on the
    way to the bathroom, and just before falling back
    to sleep. That's why it's nice to keep a writing
    pad next to your bed--iphone just fine too.

    Writing is generally mentally tedious, but writing
    copy is even more tedious because there are so many
    elements to think about.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      As an example I've just recently been contacted by a very well known, for want of a better word, a 'spiritual guru / teacher' who runs his own personal development coaching programs.

      Several emails have gone back and forth and the past three days I've spent simply mulling over the copywriting project in question, turning it over this way and that way in my mind.

      I'm thinking about his target audience, his captive market, their personal fears, wants and aspirations. In a nutshell, putting myself heart and soul into their shoes to see the outside world from within their individual and collective head space.

      And just like Tai-Chi with the gentle ebb and flow of one's hand movements gliding through the air - I'm sculpting a sales letter in my mind.

      Visualizing the coaching product in physical form, twirling it around externally just beyond my forehead like a 3 dimensional holographic image. Walking around it, spinning it occasionally first one way, then another, tilting it up, down, giving it a little poke here and there to uncover the true USP of the coaching in question.

      Looking at it from underneath, from a sideways position, looking down on it trying to decipher the hidden subconscious benefits and it's corresponding most appealing benefits. No words forming at this stage, everything is in flux in my mind's eye, my subconscious thought patterns fleetingly sliding in and out of my third eye, as I try to discover the best hook to use.

      This process could easily take a week or more. And only when I'm completely satisfied in my mind that I'm willing and able to take on this copywriting project, only at this point will I commit pen to paper.

      And this is just the beginning of the process, for even when the first draft is down on paper it will still have to go through a ruthless editing exercise.

      You cannot rush taking a diamond in the rough and overnight expect to see a very finely precision cut diamond shimmering in all it's glory.

      You have to allow the ideas to flow subconsciously, incubating every thought pattern, before you take the decision that this is the correct path to pursue.

      We're not just dealing with words here, we're dealing with energy. And chemicals in the mind.

      The perfectly balanced presentation of a particular piece of sales copy is knowing precisely which chemicals you want to release physically in the mind of your target audience, and just how much of these chemicals need to be released for the direct course of action you're looking for from the copy piece in question.

      Best,


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Jam88es99
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeMartin
      I definitely agree with Eric in regards to how a salesman lets his words flow. He doesn't speak, think, then speak again. When writing or even saying just about anything, I think long before I write. I think about who it is I'm trying to communicate with and what they want. I put myself in their shoes and ask myself what I would want to hear. When I'm done thinking, I don't necessarily have all my words planned out, but it doesn't matter because I'll be in the zone. I'll have the correct mindset and, when in that mindset, the words flow like lyrics to a song.
      Oh and I really like/agree with what Mark said. It was poetic in a sense. His writing skills in action? Haha Anyway this may not help much, but it's the best I can think of at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    I spend more time figuring out why the person I wish to affect with what I'm writing, would be affected.
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  • Profile picture of the author Russell Barnstein
    Copywriting and article writing are not the same thing; I'm not sure I understand the simultaneous references in this thread...

    In any case, if you're building your sales page from a detailed outline (as you should be) you'll be minimizing the time spent "thinking." (Based on my interpretation of "thinking" in this case, which consists of just sitting there, thinking. Not actually writing.)

    So if by "thinking" you mean "building an outline," then I spend approximately 65% of my time researching and building the outline and 25% doing the actual writing.

    The other 10% of the time I spend screwing around on the internet, reading and responding to posts like this, which I justify by telling myself that it's "business related."

    ;-O
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  • Profile picture of the author AC683
    I like to write it all out and then go back and accentuate certain thoughts. But most of what I write flows. I don't like to think about editing it until I'm done writing what I'm thinking. This process works pretty well for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author becanada
    There are so many schools of thought on this... personal - yes; headlines - yes; split test yes... alot depends on what you are selling ; audience, and of course price. Anything under $50 ; short copy; over ; long copy... but audience matters too here... keep in mind people do NOT read online; they skim.

    Best bet - download ALL the ebooks you can on the subject; read them all ; THEN write your copy. It will flow faster and smoother ; and then "fine tuning" will go much faster. There are over 100 points to good online sales copy...

    Oh... and depends on if it is your product or not too...
    D
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  • Profile picture of the author Top Dog Marketer
    Once I have been researching for several days/weeks (depends on the niche and project), I just let the first draft spill out of my head. I keep writing and don't stop at all even when my brain tells me what I just wrote wasn't right.

    Then I take the time to begin "trimming the fat" and editing down my copy the second time around.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgkelley
    I write, and rewrite, and rewrite. I spend most of my time rewriting - going back through my copy thinking of different triggers to add, etc. Writing is rewriting, they say.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Originally Posted by Andy Button View Post

    Hey warriors.

    This is one of my first real posts here on the forum.

    I decided to make a thread about a topic that's been on my mind lately; specifically, the amount of thought that goes into writing a really good sales page or sales letter.

    My background is in writing. I started out writing for newspapers, migrating to website content and eventually copywriting. The reason copywriting appealed to me was because every day was a new adventure. Writing web content, it's easy to get stuck writing the same page over and over again. With copywriting, no two clients are the same, and every article you write is different from the one you wrote before. So that's one big difference I noticed between (web) article writing and copywriting.

    However, there's another difference I've noticed too. I've noticed that with copywriting, it's way more important to really put a hell of a lot of thought into what you're saying. You know the client wants this piece to really help them lock down sales they wouldn't otherwise get, so you have to make it really stand out. it can't just be informative and well written, it has to "sell the sizzle" to the client's "steak." It has been said that some of the best copywriters will spend DAYS just thinking about the headline of a piece. I can definitely see why. When I write sales copy, I definitely spend way more time thinking than actually writing. the three main things I think about are

    1) Headlines and sub-headlines, making sure they simultaneously attract attention and tell the reader what's coming in the next block of text.

    2) Building a personal tone in the page/letter, making sure I come across as friendly even when building a sense of urgency

    3) making sure the stuff "sounds" good, having rhythm, alliteration and other things

    One thing I recommend every copywriter do is to put at least two minutes of thought for every minute you spend writing. This helps to ensure your copy comes out clean, clear and concise every time!
    Hey Andy, I've found that the first thoughts you have are the best.

    I sit down and write...then let it go to print.

    Funny how it seems when you write what comes to mind...it always seems to get the most converts.

    When you go back and re-write and then re-write it seems the conversions drop.

    I've always said, "If you've got it, you've got it".
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  • Profile picture of the author Increase Media
    It really depends. If I already know the market then I can spend just a few hours just coming up with a different angle.

    However, if it's something totally new then the time researching, creating a good mindmap, developing a good angle to set the product or service apart from everyone else, just thnking can take anywhere from 4 hours to 36 hours.

    Anything more than that is probably over thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattpaul2000
    Its the research which I personally find takes longest. However, more information I have the stronger the copy...that's what I find. I try never to take longer then 5 days but always depends on the information to hand.
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  • Profile picture of the author mariazz
    Me, if if my deadline is past approaching that's the time thought came out from my mind.
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