Would Your Copy Actually Sell In The Real World?

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

Pick your battles, bro.

My War Lyrics - Black Flag

You didn't answer my question.

Thanks

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5000250].message }}

EricMN

12 years ago

I sell people on ideas regularly.

When I first started IM I sold my college roommates on the idea of making money while sleeping.

I've sold dozens of people on taking Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

The other night a friend of mine couldn't shake a student of his who happened to be at the same bar and asking for career advice. I told my friend to go to the washroom for a moment and by the time he return, the student had left. Couldn't imagine what I said to make him do so:rolleyes:

I sold a friend of mine on joining NaNoWriMo (a recreational writing activity I take part in during November where you write a novel in one month -- National Novel Writing Month) despite him never writing so much as a short story in his life.

When I get hired to do so, these ideas just have a price tag. . . but it is no different. Because I don't sell products.

That's why my "copy" works everywhere.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5000259].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by EricMN

I sell people on ideas regularly.

When I first started IM I sold my college roommates on the idea of making money while sleeping.

I've sold dozens of people on taking Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

The other night a friend of mine couldn't shake a student of his who happened to be at the same bar and asking for career advice. I told my friend to go to the washroom for a moment and by the time he return, the student had left. Couldn't imagine what I said to make him do so:rolleyes:

I sold a friend of mine on joining NaNoWriMo (a recreational writing activity I take part in during November where you write a novel in one month -- National Novel Writing Month) despite him never writing so much as a short story in his life.

When I get hired to do so, these ideas just have a price tag. . . but it is no different. Because I don't sell products.

That's why my "copy" works everywhere.

Your copy has a simpler style than many of the pieces I've seen from some of the others. That makes it more versatile. It's not "slick copy".

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5000278].message }}

EricMN 12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Your copy has a simpler style than many of the pieces I've seen from some of the others. That makes it more versatile. It's not "slick copy".

I first want to thank you for the compliment.

The thing is, it doesn't matter how slick it appears. All that matters is that it works.

I've never purchased anything off of a 'slick' sales letter. But if I find out that it's converting well, guess where I'm going to start modelling my copy?
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5000325].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

Your premise is wrong.

Nobody was critical of your "style" of copy.

We were critical of your offer. The slickest copy in the world won't save a poor offer. If you want to gnash your teeth and bang your fist against reality, you are free to do so. Alone.

Good luck in your endeavors.

The offer isn't poor. I just don't have any earnings statements to show anyone. That's why I'm giving it away for free now.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5000285].message }}

Bruce Wedding 12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

The offer isn't poor. I just don't have any earnings statements to show anyone. That's why I'm giving it away for free now.

Boy you said a mouthful there... another guy teaching people how to make money that isn't making any himself.
- [ 5 ] Thanks
- 2 replies
Signature

$2,300 in a Week With Teespring
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008495].message }}
- affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding
  
  Boy you said a mouthful there... another guy teaching people how to make money that isn't making any himself.
  
  Ok. I don't know what would make you think that.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  Real Wholesale Sources
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008504].message }}
- Collette 12 years ago
  
  @ Bruce - I would have pointed that out but I'm making an extra-special effort to be kind and gentle for Lent.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008508].message }}
  
  affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Collette
  
  @ Bruce - I would have pointed that out but I'm making an extra-special effort to be kind and gentle for Lent.
  
  Wow! I've been hanging around webmaster forums for about 6 years now and I've never seen people act like this. It seems to be mainly the copywritng forum. I recommend the book below to those of you who can't "kindly" critique somebody's website.
  
  How To Make Friends and Influence People
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  Real Wholesale Sources
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008517].message }}

Pusateri

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Can you sell a lawyer? Can you sell a doctor? Can you sell the family man who assumes all of the money-making products you like to buy are scams? There's a rule in copywriting that says that you need to write for the audience. - not for yourself.

Lawyers, CPAs, bankers, engineers...those are my customers. I am none of those, but I've done the work it takes to understand them...their fears, beliefs, hopes, dreams and how they think about themselves.

That's what it takes to write effectively for an audience...to craft copy that grabs and holds their attention...to create strong offers.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5000456].message }}

Mark Andrews

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5000656].message }}

Steve The Copywriter 12 years ago

Best thing I ever learned in copywriting, selling and marketing was from Gary Bencivenga.

"A gifted product is mightier than a gifted pen"

Brilliant copy won't sell a bad product.

it might do initially - then the refund demands flood in (you lose all your credibility, your list will abandon you and you're never likely to sell anything else).

Average copy can sell a good product.

Just add the necessary "copywriting" skills, if you haven't got those "techniques", are unsure how to use them. Or which ones to use...

Get someone who knows.

And watch the response soar into the stratosphere.

Once you've made absolutely sure that your product is outstandingly good.

It becomes so much easier to write compelling, irresistible and high response producing copy.

It really shouldn't be a big problem.

Steve
- [ 2 ] Thanks
Signature
http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...right-now.html
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5001046].message }}
affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Andrews

are loathe to helping people like you out.

It's called "critiquing". Not "attacking". I felt singled out. In the book How To Make Friends and Influence People, there are a few lessons there that some of the people on this forum (not you) need to learn.
- Thanks
Signature
Real Wholesale Sources
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008407].message }}

ThomasOMalley

12 years ago

You look for any way to justify your poor copy. But, there is hope...you are a true "justification" king...LOL.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5001135].message }}

thehorizon 12 years ago

I don't know what to say to the OP, but many of the copywriters here started adapting to different styles by learning from the classic greats. And that means the original people who shaped how advertising is today.

Would their advertising styles actually sell in the real world? Well, that's a question that wouldn't matter, because every single market has a different appeal, a different demographic, a different angle, "performance" (in the words of Schwartz), a different relevance of the product towards the current shape of the market.

The market is forever changing, and there is no 1 formula in copywriting. This a great reason why every single copywriter must adapt to different markets, and not just stick to a stubborn set of rules that doesn't change. Well... at least, that's not how great advertisements are made.

Of course, the other posters above all have their points. A good product is definitely a good counterpart to a brilliant sales letter. In fact, some copywriters advise product creators to add certain touches to increase the perceived differentiated value of the product against competitor products in a homogeneous market.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5001204].message }}

maximus242

12 years ago

This is just a stupid thread, if it works it works, if it doesnt it doesnt. Test it. If it works, you can tell those who criticized you to go **** themselves, if it doesnt, then shut up and listen to them. Its not hard to resolve this kind of issue.

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

xResponsive Advertising Agency | Direct Marketing | Online Advertising | Create Breakthrough Campaigns for Your Business http://xresponsive.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5001220].message }}

Steve The Copywriter 12 years ago

This thread could go on for an eternity.

So...

If your ebook is good.

Then by all means give it out for free.

It should be an excellent "bribe" to drive people to your affiliate sites.

BTW - You won't be worrying about all the stuff on "Social Proof" in your other post.

You'll be using the power of "Reciprocation"

Another Cialdini persuasion technique.

Steve
- Thanks
Signature
http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...right-now.html
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5001287].message }}

ARSuarez

12 years ago

Would my copy sell?

**** no!

My copy is the anti-thesis of persuasive. I'd have to pay people to read - literally! And buy it? Fuggedaboutit!

How dare you even ask, man? I bet nobody here actually knows if their copy could sell water to a man in the Sahara.

Sheesh.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5001541].message }}

CopyWriteHer

12 years ago

The point of copywriting is to persuade. I think most of us agree on that, yes? I hope the methods of persuasion you use in selling are different than the style you've used in this post, because putting people on the defensive is not a means of persuading the audience of this forum.

By nature, forums are protective of their communities. Posting in a critical tone, asking people to validate their work, and adding a blanket statement labeling that work, might not be well received.

A good copywriter is highly skilled at developing rapport and selling something in the way his audience will respond to.

Perhaps you do a better job of relating to your audience when you're writing on assignment.

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Most of you guys have seriously criticized my simple style of copywriting. That's understandable. Most of you are used to writing copy for information products which has a certain style to it. But the big question here is whether your copy will actually stand up in the REAL WORLD. Can you sell a lawyer? Can you sell a doctor? Can you sell the family man who assumes all of the money-making products you like to buy are scams? There's a rule in copywriting that says that you need to write for the audience. - not for yourself. I believe if many of you used the style of copy that you would use to sell a money-making product, you would fail miserably.

P.S. If you look at the work of all the copywriting legends, barely any of their pieces resemble the "slick style" that most of you use. Why is that?

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5001816].message }}

travlinguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Most of you guys have seriously criticized my simple style of copywriting. That's understandable. Most of you are used to writing copy for information products which has a certain style to it. But the big question here is whether your copy will actually stand up in the REAL WORLD. Can you sell a lawyer? Can you sell a doctor? Can you sell the family man who assumes all of the money-making products you like to buy are scams? There's a rule in copywriting that says that you need to write for the audience. - not for yourself. I believe if many of you used the style of copy that you would use to sell a money-making product, you would fail miserably.

P.S. If you look at the work of all the copywriting legends, barely any of their pieces resemble the "slick style" that most of you use. Why is that?

I think you're making a flawed assumption. That is that most here are writing for the MMO market. I doubt that's the case.

There's another thing I think you're missing. A real copywriter can write for any market. That includes lawyers, doctors, housewives and indian chiefs.

That's what copywriting is all about. A versatile writer will look at the target market and just develop a pitch that will work for that market. The ability to do that comes from understanding human motivation and emotions. And that's just scratching the surface.

The thing is, it takes years to develop the skills to write compelling copy for any market.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5002322].message }}

Collette

12 years ago

Here's the Titanic-sized hole in your copy, bro:

WHY?

Why are you giving this "valuable" information away for free?
Why should I give you my info to get it?
Why do I need to get it NOW?
Why do I KNOW it's going to help me? (Just 'cause it's freeeeee is no reason to lose 30 minutes of my life going through a steamin' pile of outdated cr*p "advice")
Why isn't your name on your own book (if you're so awesomely successful using your own methods)?

The bottom line: Your copy doesn't pass the sniff test. (Don't take that personally. I'm sure YOU smell wonderful).

But if you can't answer the prospect's "Why", he ain't gonna buy.

P.S. Orange background: Seriously. Has. To. Go. No sane person is going to stick around on that page with that color screaming at their eyeballs.

Besides... it's so '70s.

P.P.S. Seriously. Has. To. Go. Not. Kidding.

P.P.P.S. BTW: You seem to be somewhat dismissive about copy (and copywriters) used to sell money-making information products. I think it's worth pointing out that you originally asked for advice on copy intended to sell a money-making information product.

[ 6 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008143].message }}

ARSuarez 12 years ago

It just occurred to me that the OP continues saying, "Simple style" of copywriting.

That's an abstract.

Please explain what a 'simple style' looks like and show me how it's different from everyone else.

Trust me - I don't go out of my way to have a 'complicated style.'

Thanks.

-Angel
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008308].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

Why are you giving this "valuable" information away for free?

Why not? The most popular websites on the internet are ones that offer something of value for FREE.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008389].message }}

Collette

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Why not? The most popular websites on the internet are ones that offer something of value for FREE.

Quite so.

And nothing in your copy convinces me that what you're offering is, in fact, of value.

"Free" does not automatically = "Valuable".

Unless you're talking to complete fresh-to-the-Internet-newbs. Which - apparently - you're not.

Food for thought: If what you're offering is so valuable, you should be able to get me to bite in a simple squeeze page (think: "one screen; above-the-fold"). After all - it's *free*.

Just sayin'.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008464].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

Quite so.

And nothing in your copy convinces me that what you're offering is, in fact, of value.

"Free" does not automatically = "Valuable".

Unless you're talking to complete fresh-to-the-Internet-newbs. Which - apparently - you're not.

Food for thought: If what you're offering is so valuable, you should be able to get me to bite in a simple squeeze page (think: "one screen; above-the-fold"). After all - it's *free*.

Just sayin'.

Ok. You're attacking my freebie that an initial skeptic just told me is clearly worth $37 after reading it.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008488].message }}

Collette

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Ok. You're attacking my freebie that an initial skeptic just told me is clearly worth $37 after reading it.

I'm not "attacking" your freebie. I have no clue what your freebie is worth, as I haven't seen it.

It could be more valuable than anything Halbert or Bencivenga or Marshall or Makepeace ever put out.

Hell - it could be more life-changing than the discovery of fire, for all I know.

Trust me, I'm not "attacking" the substance of your product. I don't know your product.

What I AM telling you though, is that the copy you're trying to sell your product with ... ah, hell... sucks.

Again, this has Nothing to Do With You As A Person. You could be more saintly than Mary Magdalene - and that copy would still suck.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008535].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

I'm not "attacking" your freebie. I have no clue what your freebie is worth, as I haven't seen it.

It could be more valuable than anything Halbert or Bencivenga or Marshall or Makepeace ever put out.

Hell - it could be more life-changing than the discovery of fire, for all I know.

Trust me, I'm not "attacking" the substance of your product. I don't know your product.

What I AM telling you though, is that the copy you're trying to sell your product with ... ah, hell... sucks.

Again, this has Nothing to Do With You As A Person. You could be more saintly than Mary Magdalene - and that copy would still suck.

Money making products don't sell without earnings statements. I can hire a $5,000 copywriter but without an earnings statement, it's not going to sell very well. I'm not going to show an earnings statement that I made doing something else and say I made that with the information in my product.

P.S. The first ebook I wrote had to do with wholesale sources and that product did sell with my "less than perfect" copy. I was actually making money promoting that product through PPC. That's hard to do if your copy doesn't sell.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008558].message }}

Collette 12 years ago

You're not selling an e-book. You're trying to give it away. And you should be able to do so with a simple squeeze. Thousands of "valuable" freebies have been given away, and are being given away, with a few lines of copy that fit on a single screen.

You already admitted that you were unable to sell your product:

Since I couldn't sell my ebook I decided to just give it away and hope it goes viral. What's the best way to do this?

and:

I just don't have any earnings statements to show anyone. That's why I'm giving it away for free now.

I'm going to take a leap and assume that the reason you don't have any earnings statements for this product is because you didn't sell any of the product.

Whether you're selling, or giving it away, you always have to present the value of the product to your prospects.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008631].message }}

EricMN

12 years ago

You should stop retaliating and start listening.

Not everyone writes a winner every time they write. Don't treat your copy like your baby, because sometimes you have to trash your copy. I hope that analogy jarred you, it was suppose to.

You have been faced with criticisms that you have perceived as attacks where they haven't been. They have become increasingly. . . "curt" because you're not receiving the advice very well. I guess it's not what you want to hear.

But don't just listen to copywriters

You've been told your freebie is worth $37 first hand

There's the social proof you were wanting. Use it. Then do some research, circle back, have a coffee, brain storm, sleep on it, wake up, stretch, take a walk. . .

Let it stew

Come back and try again.

It's only brave to post your copy for critique if you are willing to face the fire you're bound to receive.

If you think you're the only one who gets dissected, you can see Angel's critique of Gordon.

Read Gordon's response.

Learn from it. And learn from this entire experience. Don't let it sour you, let it educate you.

Good luck with your ebook.

[ 6 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008656].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by EricMN

You should stop retaliating and start listening.

Not everyone writes a winner every time they write. Don't treat your copy like your baby, because sometimes you have to trash your copy. I hope that analogy jarred you, it was suppose to.

You have been faced with criticisms that you have perceived as attacks where they haven't been. They have become increasingly. . . "curt" because you're not receiving the advice very well. I guess it's not what you want to hear.

But don't just listen to copywriters

You've been told your freebie is worth $37 first hand

There's the social proof you were wanting. Use it. Then do some research, circle back, have a coffee, brain storm, sleep on it, wake up, stretch, take a walk. . .

Let it stew

Come back and try again.

It's only brave to post your copy for critique if you are willing to face the fire you're bound to receive.

If you think you're the only one who gets dissected, you can see Angel's critique of Gordon.

Read Gordon's response.

Learn from it. And learn from this entire experience. Don't let it sour you, let it educate you.

Good luck with your ebook.

What constitutes good copy is a matter of opinion. It also depends on who you're trying to sell. If you're trying to sell a person who appreciates fancy copy, you might get better results than if you were selling to somebody who doesn't care for it. It's like trying to compare an expensive bottle of wine to a cheap bottle. A person who doesn't drink wine won't be able to tell the difference. In fact, the cheap wine might taste better to them.

Thanks
4 replies

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008744].message }}

ARSuarez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

What constitutes good copy is a matter of opinion. It also depends on who you're trying to sell. If you're trying to sell a person who appreciates fancy copy, you might get better results than if you were selling to somebody who doesn't care for it. It's like trying to compare an expensive bottle of wine to a cheap bottle. A person who doesn't drink wine won't be able to tell the difference. In fact, the cheap wine might taste better to them.

Holy ****.

What the hell are you talking about?

Your analogy is fatally flawed. Copy is not suppose to be "fancy" for some and "simple/easy" for others.

Let me tell you right now the RULE of copy:

Copy is written however it must be for the market it intends to sell to.

That's it. This is the #1 rule when it comes to writing copy. You can't sell golfing products to people who don't like golf. You can't even use the same language you use in a golfing product selling a gardening product (the idea is so preposterous, I can't wrap my mind around it).

Your talk of 'simple' vs 'fancy' is turning this into a Copy Class War.

Your inability to grasp the great feedback you've received as well as the attempt by Eric to encourage you is just... Ugh.

I asked you above to explain "simple" copy out of the abstract.

As it stands, I'm about to call troll on you. That's the only thing that would explain 3 threads and comments that simply stir everyone up.

And yeah, you got one thing right - good copy is a matter of opinion.

Do you know whose opinion?

The market.

So if we lowly writers know so little and don't understand your genius... then please, take the original draft and go live with it.

You can come back and laugh in our faces as you begin rolling in greenbacks.

I'm done with this discussion. Come back when you actually want critique and feedback and not just validation of your opinion.

-Angel

[ 5 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008792].message }}

EricMN

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

What constitutes good copy is a matter of opinion. It also depends on who you're trying to sell. If you're trying to sell a person who appreciates fancy copy, you might get better results than if you were selling to somebody who doesn't care for it. It's like trying to compare an expensive bottle of wine to a cheap bottle. A person who doesn't drink wine won't be able to tell the difference. In fact, the cheap wine might taste better to them.

The only thing that constitutes good copy is how well it works.

[ 2 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008800].message }}

Collette

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

What constitutes good copy is a matter of opinion.

"Opinion" isn't worth sh*t. What constitutes "good" copy is a matter of sales.

"Good" copy sells. "Bad" copy doesn't.

Copy that doesn't make the sale is "bad" copy.

The copy you used before didn't sell the product. The copy you've shown us isn't making "the sale" you are now trying to make (as evidenced by the feedback you've received).

You're so busy taking the criticisms you asked for as "personal attacks" that you're not connecting the dots.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008802].message }}

Azarna

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

"Opinion" isn't worth sh*t. What constitutes "good" copy is a matter of sales.

"Good" copy sells. "Bad" copy doesn't.

Copy that doesn't make the sale is "bad" copy.

The copy you used before didn't sell the product. The copy you've shown us isn't making "the sale" you are now trying to make (as evidenced by the feedback you've received).

You're so busy taking the criticisms you asked for as "personal attacks" that you're not connecting the dots.

This is it in a nutshell.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008843].message }}

jimbo13 12 years ago

If it is the orange website we are talking about you don't have to really go any further than the 1st sign up box.

I would delete everything underneath it and maybe change the colour to blue.

After all the traffic directed there for whatever reason don't need any long explanation to get something for free.

Long = turn off in that case.

Try it and see. I'm not a copywriter by the way but I am 99% sure that I am right.

Dan
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5009000].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

"Opinion" isn't worth sh*t. What constitutes "good" copy is a matter of sales.

"Good" copy sells. "Bad" copy doesn't.

Copy that doesn't make the sale is "bad" copy.

The copy you used before didn't sell the product. The copy you've shown us isn't making "the sale" you are now trying to make (as evidenced by the feedback you've received).

You're so busy taking the criticisms you asked for as "personal attacks" that you're not connecting the dots.

If you can "kindly" tell me EXACTLY how you would do it, that would be quite helpful.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5011978].message }}

JakeDaly 12 years ago

What happened to you as a child?
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5012074].message }}
- affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JakeDaly
  
  What happened to you as a child?
  
  I was taught to treat people with respect and to stand up to those who don't understand this basic principle.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  Real Wholesale Sources
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5012553].message }}
Collette 12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

If you can "kindly" tell me EXACTLY how you would do it, that would be quite helpful.

I did. You ignored everything I had to say because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I can't help you.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5015138].message }}

Ashley Gable

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

What constitutes good copy is a matter of opinion. It also depends on who you're trying to sell. If you're trying to sell a person who appreciates fancy copy, you might get better results than if you were selling to somebody who doesn't care for it. It's like trying to compare an expensive bottle of wine to a cheap bottle. A person who doesn't drink wine won't be able to tell the difference. In fact, the cheap wine might taste better to them.

A quote came to mind when reading this:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Although I think that mile marker was passed long ago.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5008834].message }}

erichhrich

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5011891].message }}

affiliatecopywriter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by erichhrich

Best thing I ever learned in copywriting

Glad you learned something!
- Thanks
Signature
Real Wholesale Sources
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5011957].message }}

affiliatecopywriter

12 years ago

Okay. This is my last post in the copywriting forum. You're not going to see me around here anymore. I have better things to do with my time.

THE LESSON YOU SHOULD HAVE LEARNED FROM ALL OF MY RECENT POSTS:

"Don't insult a potential customer! Try to sell them instead!"

You guys act like the princes of persuasion but BARELY ANY of you guys sent me a PM to see if I would be interested in your services. Instead, you ran my copy down to the ground when I asked you to "critique it". One of you could have had a new client. You missed your chance.

PEACE!

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Real Wholesale Sources

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5012851].message }}

max5ty

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Okay. This is my last post in the copywriting forum. You're not going to see me around here anymore. I have better things to do with my time.

THE LESSON YOU SHOULD HAVE LEARNED FROM ALL OF MY RECENT POSTS:

"Don't insult a potential customer! Try to sell them instead!"

You guys act like the princes of persuasion but BARELY ANY of you guys sent me a PM to see if I would be interested in your services. Instead, you ran my copy down to the ground when I asked you to "critique it". One of you could have had a new client. You missed your chance.

PEACE!

Marketing of any type can be a complete hit or miss.

I've heard of products on the market that I could have swore would never have a chance of seeing any success...

next thing I knew, they were not only selling like hot cakes, but going viral.

Gordon Alexander pointed out a website the other day that looked like it was a holdover from the geo cities days -- yet the guy's done over 400 million dollars in sales.

Most of those giving you a critique really want to help...they realize your goal is to make money and they're giving their best advice to help.

Best thing to do is listen...change things that would make it better, then test, test, test.

If things don't go well, change different parts of your letter until it starts working.

Hopefully you don't get discouraged...you're pretty good over all...you've got a good future

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5014285].message }}

Jake Dennert

12 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecopywriter

Okay. This is my last post in the copywriting forum. You're not going to see me around here anymore. I have better things to do with my time.

THE LESSON YOU SHOULD HAVE LEARNED FROM ALL OF MY RECENT POSTS:

"Don't insult a potential customer! Try to sell them instead!"

You guys act like the princes of persuasion but BARELY ANY of you guys sent me a PM to see if I would be interested in your services. Instead, you ran my copy down to the ground when I asked you to "critique it". One of you could have had a new client. You missed your chance.

PEACE!

No offense, man... but you dug this hole yourself.

And then you jumped into that hole head-first.

Believe it or not, sometimes a 'critique' HAS TO hurt.

I thought you had guts for posting in here and asking for one...

...as it's not an easy thing to do.

You've GOT TO develop some thicker skin, though.

Do I like having my work ripped apart?

Not exactly... but I'm open to suggestions.

Let me tell you something about how *I* give critiques.

I spend 1-2 hours on them... MINIMUM.

Hell, one I did a couple weeks ago went over the 4 hour mark.

Why'd it take so long?

Simple:

No matter how bad someone's copy looks to me, I spend just as much (if not more) time finding GOOD things to compliment on--rather than attacking everything that's negative.

Can I be honest?

I'm not a huge fan of the Copywriting sub-forum myself, but I've got a very different reason for it.

It disappoints me.

Disappoints me that copywriting is THE most valuable skill a marketer can possess (IMO)... and yet, this forum gets like ZERO traffic compared to the other stuff.

Average users in here?

40 - 70 (rarely have I seen it even flirt with the 100 mark)

And how about the WSO section?

THOUSANDS... ALL DAY LONG

I hope someday this sub-form is as JUMPIN' as the WSO section... but I highly doubt it.

People would rather shop for a quick fix than buckle down and learn.

Anyway, moving on...

...we don't "act" like princes of persuasion.

We ARE.

You've insulted my fellow copywriters--that's why I'm jumping into this thread so late.

Couldn't just sit by and watch it anymore.

Much like Mr. Mark Andrews has said already, I wouldn't take you on as a client either.

Not when I've seen so much childish behavior in public.

Setting aside the **** storm you've stirred up in here, if you can tone down the attitude for five seconds...

...I'd be happy to do a critique for you.

If you're open to that, PM me.

I wish you the best, buddy... but you've got a long way to go.

Lashing out in a public forum isn't the answer, especially when you openly asked for some tough love.

Jake

[ 2 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5015024].message }}

mattpaul2000

12 years ago

Sales Copy always needs to be fitted to a certain market...your speaking to the person you are selling too. But the distinction between real world and online? Internet is just another form of medium and communication. Before the internet people were and still are using content marketing, direct marketing but in another way.

At the end of the day it depends on who you are speaking to in your copy considering the market but lets be honest with this...who ever is buying the product are people.

Thanks

Signature

SEO Agency

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5013622].message }}

ASCW

12 years ago

If you can "kindly" tell me EXACTLY how you would do it, that would be quite helpful.

If it were that easy, copywriters couldn't command the fees that we do.

There are plenty of resources at your disposal, for getting better at this.

Here's a good exercise.
The Gary Halbert Letter

Thanks

Signature

Site being revamped.

If you want help with copy stuff, pm me.

Cool.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5015336].message }}

Would Your Copy Actually Sell In The Real World?

Trending Topics

A healthy fascination for Hollywood...

How did you turn it all around?

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

best high quality crypto traffic.