Suppose the copy fee was $15,000...

12 years ago

Depends on the subject I guess.

For example, I would never write a copy to sell hard drugs, but I would for gambling...

Why are you asking? Are you in this position as well ;-)?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Cheers,
Elion Makkink

Become an SEO Hustler too at seohustlers.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5038879].message }}

abugah

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Elion Makkink

Depends on the subject I guess.

For example, I would never write a copy to sell hard drugs, but I would for gambling...

Why are you asking? Are you in this position as well ;-)?

Elion,

There are three reasons that prompted me to pose this question to other warriors:
1. Where I live a well-known Christian musician was paid an undisclosed ( but rumored to be colossal ) amount of money by a beer manufacturer to promote their non-alcoholic beverage. You can imagine what followed. Condemnation, name calling and music lover threatening to boycott her music. To the Christians it was wrong for her to have accepted the contract.
2. The Late Gary Halbert had interesting tidbits in his letters, for instance, quote:
a) For $10,000,000 most of us would do almost ANYTHING! Including abandoning our family and friends and our church. A very high percentage of us would, for that same amount of money, change our race or sex. And, 1 in every 14, would even murder someone for ten million bucks.

What's really strange about this is, the statistics remain the same whether it's ten million dollars all the way down to three million. For three million bucks, most of us would do the same horrible things we would do for ten million. But, guess what? Few of us would do these things for a "measly" two million.
b) Two-thirds of Americans say they wouldn't let their spouse spend the night and have sex with another person for a million dollars. Many of these people are liars. There's a big difference being asked if they would do it for a million dollars... as opposed to... handing them a paper sack containing the million fungolas and simply saying, "Here, you can have this if you'll let me sleep with your sweetie tonight."
(End of quote.)

You can read the rest here .(The Gary Halbert Letter)
3. Lastly, we are now living in a global village. Where you get assignments anywhere in the world. What is unethical or illegal in one country is perfectly in order in the other. Meaning what will be guiding you will be your 'conscious.'

And these factors got me thinking what other copywriters could do when faced with tough choices. I just wondered how far money can push people. And all I was looking for was the diversified opinions of people. I'm glad they have come in pouring, 18 so far. Thanks for everyone who took time to respond and those who will do it after.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5043849].message }}

Mark Andrews Banned 12 years ago

I'm with Jake, no amount of money will entice me.

If I don't think I'm the copywriter for the job, that the person looking for new sales copy can be best served by my copywriting skills or I think the product itself is a load of bull or I don't like the product owner or respect them for whatever reason - I'll turn their work away. No exceptions.

In the last couple of years, I've turned down a huge amount of work. I want and need to be 100% satisfied in my mind that we're a good fit for each other before any exchange of skills / money takes place.

Just in the past week or so, I've been going through this evaluation process with a potential high paying client. Several thousand dollars is involved.

Many emails have gone back and forth between the website owner and myself, his seo guy and his marketing manager in America. This is for a well known guru in his field of expertise and a 20+ years fully qualified clinical psychologist. The product in question is selling for a minimum $4k with a top end price of $15k.

I've been mulling it over this way and that way for the past month with at least 30+ emails going back and forth between the various parties involved. In this instance, I'm going for it but if the fellow hadn't ticked all my boxes, I'd have recommended somebody else to him.

Your reputation as a copywriter rests solely on how well your last piece performs. If you're not certain you call pull off an outstanding job, leave well alone.

You do not carry out copywriting for the monetary aspect only. You carry out copywriting on behalf of other people only when you know you can serve their best interests to the most optimal level possible within your area of expertise and with the knowledge or set of skills at your disposal.

Given time you learn to be a great deal more discerning about the kind of copywriting clients you take on.

It's all about positioning.

Best,

Mark Andrews
- [ 3 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5044000].message }}

Jake Dennert

12 years ago

Originally Posted by abugah

Would you write copy for products that are immoral, unethical, and illegal or for people with questionable characters?

Absolutely not.

I don't care what someone's willing to pay:

If what they're offering isn't legit, if I don't believe in it myself, if I can't get behind it 100%... I won't write.

Guess I'm different that way... it's not all about money for me.

Clients don't realize that I screen them just as much as they screen me before committing to a project.

I interview them -- not the other way around.

Jake

[ 6 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5039121].message }}

TopKat22

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jake Dennert

Absolutely not.

I don't care what someone's willing to pay:

If what they're offering isn't legit, if I don't believe in it myself, if I can't get behind it 100%... I won't write.

Guess I'm different that way... it's not all about money for me.

Clients don't realize that I screen them just as much as they screen me before committing to a project.

I interview them -- not the other way around.

Jake

Good for you. I agree and screen clients also in every area.

I'm not a copywriter exactly except that I've written for myself and clients for years.

Money is the lowest form of motivation.

I think it is better to be motivated by something higher like duty, or your own self worth or doing a good job you can be proud of and let money follow.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

44 days in and we broke the $10K a month recurring bench mark.

Guaranteed 60% Opt In Rate Traffic-Real People-Fresh Today-High Quality Biz Opp traffic![/URL]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5039258].message }}

thehorizon

12 years ago

I'd say persuasion is a dangerous skill.

Look at the cigarette market back then.

There was a classified, documented health risk released to the public officially way back then when every selling angle was focusing on its taste and length etc. The cigarette market almost died out... until the selling angle changed the game. Look at how long the market survived... the penetration rate is crazy.

To answer the question... I wouldn't really do it, although it would be quite an exciting challenge to copywriting skills. I might try it out in secret... but no, I'd never do it for the money... not when my lifestyle will be at risk.

[ 3 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5039240].message }}

John Romaine

12 years ago

Ill give you $15,000 to stab someone.

Get my point?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5039286].message }}

Joe Benjamin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by abugah

Would you write copy for products that are immoral, unethical, and illegal or for people with questionable characters? Just where is the boundary?
What if they offering $15,000 upfront, would you close your eyes?

Let's look at the nature of the question...

If you had a sick child or family member with a rare blood
disease or cancer...and you needed at LEAST $15,000 to
put down as a deposit to go on "The List" for operation...

would you hesitate to turn a blind eye?

If you were a 'down on your luck' copywriter with not a
single penny to your name forced to live on the street
because you gambled most of your fortune away...

and someone came up to you through word-of-mouth of
your skills and suddenly offered a $15,000 contract for a
product you may or may not personally believe is ethical,
moral, or righteous...

would you seriously...SERIOUSLY not give it ANY thought?

...what if you were a few thousand in debt and 1 week
away from being evicted from your home along with a 5
person family?

The point is...

everyone here who is HUMAN would consider overlooking
their PERSONAL morals or ethics IF...the price was right.

there are consequences to the lives we indirectly affect
selling and copywriting for ourselves and others for right,
wrong, or "grey area" reasons.

...it makes me chuckle how (naturally) people would come
here on their high horse and and scream at the top of their
lungs what they will NOT do...

NEVER being in a position to make those decisions under
those REAL circumstances.

...under the right circumstances you would see it more as
a blessing - not a moral or ethical 'wrong' you see...

Abugah...

you got a few 'typical' answers from those who feel they
need to state how morally grounded they are...

but are they telling the truth?

Maybe...

...maybe they WOULD turn down $15k even IF they were
responsible for feeding and housing their family because...

it's just the RIGHT thing to do.

But is it "likely"?

In conclusion...

I don't advocate nor support turning a blind eye in making
those decisions

...but I do NOT believe many of us would be in a position
to JUDGE those who do.

We don't have to AGREE with those decisions...and if they
are involved in criminal activity they SHOULD be jailed...

but there IS a grey area like...

selling cigerrettes or alcohol for example which is known to
kill thousands of people from poisoning or cancers.

Now...

would I take the $15,000 and close my eyes?

It would depend on my circumstances "in the moment". If
I made stupid decisions or someone I loved needed major
medical care...

I can't say YES or NO unless (and god forbid) I was put in
that situation.

I want to FEEL I would say no...and it's likely I would...but
I can not...HONESTLY...rule out the alternative possibility.

But at least I'm honest about it.

I feel many people DO feel the same way and can relate...

but few people in their right mind would say what I just said
above because of public backlash and finger pointing.

Originally Posted by Jake Dennert

Absolutely not.

I don't care what someone's willing to pay:

If what they're offering isn't legit, if I don't believe in it myself, if I can't get behind it 100%... I won't write.

Guess I'm different that way... it's not all about money for me.

Clients don't realize that I screen them just as much as they screen me before committing to a project.

I interview them -- not the other way around.

Jake

See above if you dare...

Originally Posted by thehorizon

I'd say persuasion is a dangerous skill.

Look at the cigarette market back then.

There was a classified, documented health risk released to the public officially way back then when every selling angle was focusing on its taste and length etc. The cigarette market almost died out... until the selling angle changed the game. Look at how long the market survived... the penetration rate is crazy.

To answer the question... I wouldn't really do it, although it would be quite an exciting challenge to copywriting skills. I might try it out in secret... but no, I'd never do it for the money... not when my lifestyle will be at risk.

See above if you dare...

Originally Posted by TopKat22

Good for you. I agree and screen clients also in every area.

I'm not a copywriter exactly except that I've written for myself and clients for years.

Money is the lowest form of motivation.

I think it is better to be motivated by something higher like duty, or your own self worth or doing a good job you can be proud of and let money follow.

is money REALLY the lowest form of motivation?

I actually agree with "higher duty", "self-worth", and
"doing a good job". Good ideals to uphold...

would you put that above feeding your family? Having
a warm place to live under the elements? Saving your
-self from...yourself?

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

Ill give you $15,000 to stab someone.

Get my point?

Well see now...

you're comparing a "hit" to something more subtle like
writing copy for a cigerrette ad, alcohol...

heck some people considered selling cereal to kids for
profit was a little "immoral" because it's marketed as
being "healthy" for you...

when in reality MOST cereals suck the energy out of
you, can give you diabetes, and other hosts of issues.

DIRECT impact of choices is easier to acknowledge from
INDIRECT impact.

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

**How I FLIPPED $80 into $690 Pure Profit With ONE EASY Method...2 to 3x Per Week...Only 30 Minutes Per Day (and how YOU can COPY my RESULTS, too!) **CLICK HERE FOR VERIFIED VIDEO PROOF**

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5039594].message }}

Bruce Wedding

12 years ago

Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin

Let's look at the nature of the question...

If you had a sick child or family member with a rare blood
disease or cancer...and you needed at LEAST $15,000 to
put down as a deposit to go on "The List" for operation...

would you hesitate to turn a blind eye?

If you were a 'down on your luck' copywriter with not a
single penny to your name forced to live on the street
because you gambled most of your fortune away...

and someone came up to you through word-of-mouth of
your skills and suddenly offered a $15,000 contract for a
product you may or may not personally believe is ethical,
moral, or righteous...

would you seriously...SERIOUSLY not give it ANY thought?

...what if you were a few thousand in debt and 1 week
away from being evicted from your home along with a 5
person family?

The point is...

everyone here who is HUMAN would consider overlooking
their PERSONAL morals or ethics IF...the price was right.

"Everyone tries to define this thing called Character. It's not hard. Character is doing what's right when nobody's looking."

The other day an unemployed man found a bag of $150,000 in his back yard. He turned it in to the police.

[ 3 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

$2,300 in a Week With Teespring

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5040391].message }}

JakeDaly 12 years ago

I was once offered $400 to re-write the web copy of a plastic surgeon down in Boca Raton, FL. It was a fairly small website and only about a day's worth of work, so I happily took the job. Afterwards, they offered me $200 to write a white paper on some new medical hormone(it was a while back but I think I remember it being a hormone of some sort) that could be used by people attempting to look younger. It wasn't approved by the FDA and, quite honestly, there wasn't much other content written about it or really much else to use as a basis for my own research for the white paper.

I wrote back to the client that I wouldn't be comfortable with writing anything about something that was so new to medical research, yet alone a white paper on it. Truth be told, I would've found some way to write it had he only offered much more than $200(say.. $15,000 as the OP set as his standard. Although my finances would have dictated I probably would have written it at that time for only about $800 )
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5040661].message }}

thehorizon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

"Everyone tries to define this thing called Character. It's not hard. Character is doing what's right when nobody's looking."

The other day an unemployed man found a bag of $150,000 in his back yard. He turned it in to the police.

True.

There are certain instances under the influence of deep hypnosis where the unaware mind strongly refused to do things against their conditioned moral code. You can't make a person dance in public if it's against her religion. You can't make turn a person into an assassin through hypnosis (The CIA has tried that experiment). All that is fable, and since the "subconscious" rejects it... you simply can't do it... or you'll crack.

If being criminal ever fascinated you... a crack is enough for you to do it.

I've been conditioned by society, my neighbourhood and my parents. I most definitely won't do it.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5042089].message }}

thehorizon

12 years ago

Summary to the above post: The poster is more morally honest and upright than many of us out there. I guess I'll just admit my ignominious incompetence.

To re-answer the question by the OP... I still wouldn't.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5039668].message }}

Phillips Pierce

12 years ago

Great post Benjamin,

We all realize that high cholesterol kills more people every year then alcohol or cigarettes combined, right?

If Mcdonalds, Honey Nut Cheerios, Hungry Man or even every child's favorite Kinder Eggs offered you 15k to write a one page promotional copy, would you decline it?

If not, by your own admitted standards, you're responsible for more deaths down the road 10, 20, 30 or 40 years from now then any of the writers or spin masters in the tobacco industry.

Being morally righteous is too relative to be of any objective value. The fact is people are dying of cancer from breathing polluted air. From drinking water. From using damn cell phones.

What is the line?

There is none, just wherever you draw it. But it's still just a line of your own judgement.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Article Writing That RANKS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5039958].message }}

abugah

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Phillips Pierce

Great post Benjamin,

We all realize that high cholesterol kills more people every year then alcohol or cigarettes combined, right?

If Mcdonalds, Honey Nut Cheerios, Hungry Man or even every child's favorite Kinder Eggs offered you 15k to write a one page promotional copy, would you decline it?

If not, by your own admitted standards, you're responsible for more deaths down the road 10, 20, 30 or 40 years from now then any of the writers or spin masters in the tobacco industry.

Being morally righteous is too relative to be of any objective value. The fact is people are dying of cancer from breathing polluted air. From drinking water. From using damn cell phones.

What is the line?

There is none, just wherever you draw it. But it's still just a line of your own judgement.

Philips,

Thanks for your contribution.

The best Rule of selling is to find a hungry crowd and feed it. That means you never, as a copywriter create demand, you only channel it.

It just occurred to me that most of the very popular things in the world have some faults. Fast food, Rock music, talk shows that add no value, games that corrupt morals of the youth. Yet most people find their marketing right.

As you say being morally righteous is too relative.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5048323].message }}

malta

12 years ago

What topic could possibly be so wrong as to turn down a quick 15 grand?

People write for drugs, igaming, and scam WSO products all the time...

Thanks

Signature

- Anomark Online Marketing Directory -

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5040685].message }}

CopyMonster

12 years ago

If you're good enough to ask for $15K, you can get $30K or $50K. I'd double the price and find a better prospect.

Of course if you're in a tight jam, and you need that $15K to pay off the ugly steroid infused thugs who answer to Tommy "Two Toes", then maybe you take what you can get.

Thanks

Signature

Scary good...

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5040980].message }}

RadiniCopywriting

12 years ago

I think you need to believe in something to write about it. If you don't you won't be abl eto sell it. If you believe in the sorts of thigns you're talking about, I'm sure you could. Morals are personal, but I wouldn't write about something I didn't beleive it.