Next Steps in To Improve My Copywriting

17 replies
I think that I have done well in mastering the sort of copywriting you would find in a lead generation report. That much is fun...fun...fun

But its confession time....

What is NOT fun necessarily is putting together sales pages.

I hate them.

But without a well written one...well, you know the rest.

I thought that as I created more products, it would get easier.

It hasn't and I am not improving or learning as fast as I have done other things since I have been selling online.

Yes, I KNOW I can outsource it, but I want to be able to tell what is good and what is not. It could be a flaw in my thinking but I feel like I need to learn some foundations.

I have a Yanik Silver course that I bought back in 2008

I have a Robert Plank course that I bought back in 2009

I even have an old Eben Pagan Info product course...

I guess I can go through them all and keep incorporating suggestions and subsequently improving my products. This is not going to slow me down in, but man....I DO want to get better.

Not looking for a Magic Bullet but.....any other suggestions?

CT
#copywriting #improve #steps
  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    At the risk of self-congratulation:

    Fast, Effective Sales Copy with David Garfinkel & Brian McLeod

    We created the site for EXACTLY your situation, Charles.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    You may be closer to home than you may think but
    you do sometimes need a third eye to get you over
    the line.

    I've had many students who also went though several
    of the popular course and finally "got it" after joining
    my coaching program.

    There is one thing I can do better than writing copy
    and that's teaching it. Maybe that is because I
    was a teacher before I became a copywriter.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Hey Charles,

      Not sure if you remember but we met a few years ago at a local networking event.

      Brian and Ray both gave you some great advice. I'd recommend checking out what both of them offer.

      Copywriting can easily become an ongoing study and take a lot of years to master. I've been writing copy for my own businesses for almost 20 years and copywriting clients for 5+ years now. Despite that depth of experience, I'm still picking up new things all the time.

      As someone who has studied dozens of copywriting books, courses, and training materials I've found that sometimes it takes more than one teacher to pick up everything.

      The way one teacher teaches something like writing bullets might not completely connect with you... but you hear it from a different teacher's perspective and you GOT it.

      That's one of the reasons why I give more than one different copywriting teacher credit for helping me develop my skills... and I often can pinpoint what exactly it is that they taught me that really hit home for me.

      Hope that helps,

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

        Hey Charles,

        Not sure if you remember but we met a few years ago at a local networking event.

        Brian and Ray both gave you some great advice. I'd recommend checking out what both of them offer.

        Copywriting can easily become an ongoing study and take a lot of years to master. I've been writing copy for my own businesses for almost 20 years and copywriting clients for 5+ years now. Despite that depth of experience, I'm still picking up new things all the time.

        As someone who has studied dozens of copywriting books, courses, and training materials I've found that sometimes it takes more than one teacher to pick up everything.

        The way one teacher teaches something like writing bullets might not completely connect with you... but you hear it from a different teacher's perspective and you GOT it.

        That's one of the reasons why I give more than one different copywriting teacher credit for helping me develop my skills... and I often can pinpoint what exactly it is that they taught me that really hit home for me.

        Hope that helps,

        Mike
        You bet I remember you Mike.

        I have been wondering why we all never met again. I thought we all had a great meeting.

        Okay in any case, you are right. I have been that way with everything else in Internet Marketing. Somebody says it the right way and I ""get it". As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I have not been able to wrap my brain around the big picture.

        That said, I think to get somebody to look at my stuff and then also to go through what I have is a good plan. I took me a Loooooong time to 'get' product creation in spite of having all of the tools and memberships, that we supposedly needed. I pick them up now, a year later and it now all makes sense...glad I bought them.

        I hope the same is true with copywriting.

        I recently told my wife that whatever good copy is, you don't know what it is until it has you thinking about the product or service, until you force yourself to say no I am not gonna buy it or yes I am. My copy is not doing that yet, but that is what I want it to do.

        CT
        PS...admittedly the copy in Brian's thing is messing with me.

        PPS...we need to see if we can get the PA Group back together.
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    • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      You may be closer to home than you may think but
      you do sometimes need a third eye to get you over
      the line.

      I've had many students who also went though several
      of the popular course and finally "got it" after joining
      my coaching program.

      There is one thing I can do better than writing copy
      and that's teaching it. Maybe that is because I
      was a teacher before I became a copywriter.

      -Ray Edwards
      Thanks, Raydal.

      One of my good friends in IM, Christie Love has nothing but good things to say about you. I will maybe have to consider a coach at some point or finding a way to build a relationship with a copywriter.

      The funny thing is that I have been a professor, and the fact that I have the framework of Economics has served me well. I understand the big picture, everything else fits in.

      For some reason, that big picture with writing copy seems to be the thing that has eluded me. I am determined though that it will not keep me from putting stuff out; but I do need to get that framework in my head.

      CT
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by Charles Harper View Post

        Thanks, Raydal.

        One of my good friends in IM, Christie Love has nothing but good things to say about you. I will maybe have to consider a coach at some point or finding a way to build a relationship with a copywriter.

        CT
        Christie was a take action kind of student so you're good company.

        And I do agree that the big picture is what most copywriters who
        study different course often miss. Just a matter of approaches
        I guess. I like to know WHY I'm doing something and not just the
        WHAT I'm doing. And the big picture is what I cover in the
        first lesson. Copywriting can seem to be made up of a lot
        of unrelated pieces but they do fit into a 'pattern' that's often
        overlooked.

        But I agree with Mike that you learn something different from
        different teachers.

        You may find this video interesting:


        -Ray Edwards
        Signature
        The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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        • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
          Sir Charles....hope u are doing well. Of course u will get a biased answer from me.....but truth be told Brian McLeod has written 3 sales letters for me.....and never booked a loser yet. So he's 3 and 0 for me...but keep in mind while Brian is a nice guy he charges a LOT OF MONEY.

          And truth is, if u can master copy I'm convinced you can never go broke assuming your offer is NOT a manifesto on the mating habits of Bumble Bees and Humming birds.... and please tell me u listened to Vinnie and never published that loser!

          Fast Effect Copy is about as close to perfect as it gets. The amount of info is massive and deep and compelling. But it's broken down so step by step you wont get overwhelmed. I actually sit (lie) down as I recoup from the radiation treatments.....and listen to the audios and have learned much.

          Used the information and did my own sales page several months ago for a video offer and sold out......so based on actual experience rather then just "theory" I know this living course is all bad-assery.

          David Garfinkel is widely considered one of the top teachers of copy ever and he's been around longer then time itself.....has worked without about every "legend" in the game and knows his stuff.

          What will be most helpful to u are the copy writing templates that literally guide you from headline to close......and it's damn near impossible to screw up. The templates alone are worth the bacon.

          Anyway....this was a good excuse to say hey.....I've been out of touch with everyone lately cuz **** happens...and Vinnie is pretty sick and really sick of being sick, capiche.

          The monthly webinars are awesome and some of the biggest legends in copy regularly appear. Probably the most comprehensive course of it's kind on the market....and the section of video marketing copy with Kevin Rogers and his homeboy celebrity friend from Mike and Molly was one of the very best break downs of video copy I have ever come across.

          Videos, audios, Pdfs......and easily organized so you don't feel like you're reading the long version of " War and Peace" upside down in Greek.

          What ever direction you go....be it a book, Brian and David's course, or coaching etc......sales copy is definitely something you need to grasp..as it's paramount to your success or failure as a marketer if u choose to tinker with it yourself without the proper foundation. Plus the copywriting section of this form will rip u a new one...lmao.

          Or...hit the lotto....and you'll end up paying dude's like McLeod a sick amount of cash assuming he's not booked which he is......plus their is that nasty back end you'se will be coughing up.

          Point? Take the plunge and what ever direction you go...go somewhere.

          In the mean time, check out Vinny's favorite grizzled veteran of all time....Gary Halbert. The Gary Halbert letters are pure gold and besides the brilliant copy.....Gary was a brilliant marketer who could sell a space heater to a dude living in Bullhead City, Arizona.

          peace bro...stay well......Vegas Vince

          Yo Mack...Searching for a RAP login hint hint.
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        • Ray,

          You've been peeking at my book shelf! LOL! Great summary of a core curriculum. "Scientific Advertising" will repay careful study.

          BTW love your email autoresponder course. I have many email courses but I come back to yours again and again for the structure of the series.

          Thanks!
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          • Profile picture of the author brightmarketing
            There are two things you can do right now, that will dramatically improve your ability to both write copy and know whether it is good or not...

            1. Read a sales letter every day. If it makes you want to buy, save it and try and figure out WHY it made you want to buy.

            2. Write out a letter by hand every day. Yes, actually grab a pad of paper and pen, and get to it. This exercise will literally be the best training you can get - for free! It can get tedious, but it works.

            Sure, you can get a lot from paid programs and what not... but you still actually have to put in the work and do some writing... it's the only way.
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            • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
              Originally Posted by Copywriter Kevin Francis View Post

              Charles,

              Coming in a little late on the discussion here but would say that the "Copywriting Templates" program from David Garfinkel and Brian is outstanding. Of all the courses I have, this would be what I would keep if I could only have one program. Of course, there are many other excellent programs but I think you'll be very pleased with "Copywriting Templates". For somebody who wants to write effective copy but doesn't necessarily want to spend every waking moment learning about copy(!) this sets it all out in an easy-to-follow fashion. It's not "paint-by-numbers" but if you understand the sales process, "Copywriting Templates" will translate that for you into copy that works.

              Every success!

              Kevin Francis
              Originally Posted by brightmarketing View Post

              There are two things you can do right now, that will dramatically improve your ability to both write copy and know whether it is good or not...

              1. Read a sales letter every day. If it makes you want to buy, save it and try and figure out WHY it made you want to buy.

              2. Write out a letter by hand every day. Yes, actually grab a pad of paper and pen, and get to it. This exercise will literally be the best training you can get - for free! It can get tedious, but it works.

              Sure, you can get a lot from paid programs and what not... but you still actually have to put in the work and do some writing... it's the only way.
              Thanks Gentlemen....that is great actionable advice. Very practical...

              CT
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            • Originally Posted by brightmarketing View Post

              There are two things you can do right now, that will dramatically improve your ability to both write copy and know whether it is good or not...

              1. Read a sales letter every day. If it makes you want to buy, save it and try and figure out WHY it made you want to buy.

              2. Write out a letter by hand every day. Yes, actually grab a pad of paper and pen, and get to it. This exercise will literally be the best training you can get - for free! It can get tedious, but it works.

              Sure, you can get a lot from paid programs and what not... but you still actually have to put in the work and do some writing... it's the only way.
              Good heavens YES great advice re writing out letters. I remember when I originally did the AWAI course and writing out (1) "Two Young Men" (WSJ) and (2) "Quite Frankly" (Amex). That exercise has repaid itself over the years!
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
    Vince,

    My main man.....

    Man, what else is there to say?

    You have said it all, I do have to get this.

    I am pretty committed to info products; told I have a great product or products.

    But was told by somebody who is pretty successful selling info products that my copy was "horrible".

    And yes, as you have said, I need to pay some money to learn this.

    As Raydal has said, I need to understand the classics some too.

    CT

    PS...I had heard something about radiation treatments. I will contact you on Facebook I would like to know more, so I can pray intelligently for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
    I have decided to go with Brian's course and also to take Raydal up on his suggestion to make a study of the classics. I have a couple of 1930's era copywriting books from the public library. Let's see where it goes from here. Thanks everyone for your help.

    CT
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  • Charles,

    Coming in a little late on the discussion here but would say that the "Copywriting Templates" program from David Garfinkel and Brian is outstanding. Of all the courses I have, this would be what I would keep if I could only have one program. Of course, there are many other excellent programs but I think you'll be very pleased with "Copywriting Templates". For somebody who wants to write effective copy but doesn't necessarily want to spend every waking moment learning about copy(!) this sets it all out in an easy-to-follow fashion. It's not "paint-by-numbers" but if you understand the sales process, "Copywriting Templates" will translate that for you into copy that works.

    Every success!

    Kevin Francis
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  • Profile picture of the author James Black
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Rylynn
    Info products are necessary for sure, and a few warriors have already put up some recommendations.

    What I found though, is that to REALLY improve, you need to keep writing. That's the only way you'll really understand the intricate difficulties involved and learn how to overcome them.

    You need the right knowledge to apply for sure, but then after that the rest of it is just practice. The more you write the better you'll get.

    Another thing I find useful is studying ads of the best selling products in my niche. I tend to take note of the emotional triggers and hooks they use because those are proven triggers. So If I craft a sales letter, I'll know that I have to include the same triggers or at least a variation of it.

    Another thing to do is study magalogs or any promotional piece in print. Magalogs are essentially an entire sales letter in print.

    I've found that one can learn a lot from the offline editorial style of copy as compared to limiting ourselves to the usual hyped up copy we see everyday online.
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