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Sort of a survey of pros...sort of advice for new and or younger Copy Guns

by gjabiz
10 replies
Before the advice and question...brief history from late 80s early 90s.

Boss comes in, tosses book on my desk, sez; Copy ASAP. LEAVES.

So I read the book taking copious notes. THEN, walk down hall, search SRDS for lists generated from similar books.

THEN, go to library (leave work early...cause boss didn't care, he knew you were working)...and get copies of the mags where ads were run which genearated the lists in the SRDS.

Then outlined copy, general broad strokes, used note cards (I use different color 4 x 6 cards).

In other words, we Creative Marketing Pros were responsible for our own reseach, including targets, segments, demographics, etc.

I didn't dare ask the boss for MORE info please...picture Tiny Tim asking for more gruel...

OK. I get it if you have a client with an idea or a product in development and even one with a new book or ebook or course whatever, and you have him/her fill out your information sheet to get to know more...

BUT those of you that are sending out YOUR questionaire....should consider taking the time to CUSTOMIZE it to your client. Last week I got three of these...and then decided I was'nt going to waste my time answering or skipping over redundant and/or unnecessary questions.

After all, I provide a copy of the product and TWO promotions being used to sell it.

Here is the survey part...in my mind I gave them all the starting point information they needed.

I don't feel the further demographic information needed or needs to be provided.

So for you pros...

If you have the product. And two ads. And you know where the copy is being sent...to the lists of people wanting to make money and/or start a small home based business.

Do you think you could generate copy?

Or, what further information would you request? And do you provide YOUR standardized questions to your client?

I'm somewhat miffed, but open to the idea I'm wrong, as to why a copywriter would need more info.

And so far I have 5 pieces of copy, two from the original questionaire people...before I quit answering them...and only 1 is getting tested at this point from a person rather late to the party at that.

One in five means that in my opinion, four of them didn't meet minimum requirements of copy...my requirements anyhow.

So, does knowing more about the target help you to craft a better promotion, it should! But, alas, it doesn't seem to help.

gjabiz

PS. Yea I preach about targeted copy. Even have a video about it. Am I wrong to not accept more carbon copy questionaires...which seem to me to be a waste of my time?
#advice #copy #guns #prossort #sort #survey #younger
  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Gordon,

    Personally, I go for information overload on each project.

    I insist that every client fill out my client questionnaire. Besides the information they share, it gives me an initial feel on their writing style and voice. If it's a client where I'm writing a promotion to go to their house list, then nailing the voice is critical. Otherwise, you run the risk of creating a disconnect with their list saying "This doesn't sound like he/she wrote this".

    I tell my clients to send me as much information about the product, target market, and anything else they have. In addition, I do my own research for all of those things and more.

    You'd be surprised how often I can find golden nuggets that the client overlooked in their questionnaire and own research.

    Great example... One of my early client hits was due to the client overlooking/dismissing the story of how they came up with their product. I took that "boring" story and made it part of the salesletter I wrote which produced $100K in sales in the first month alone. That product has since become the dominant offering in that niche ever since.

    Hope that helps,

    Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author ZackRex
      I found this to be very helpful, thank you.
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      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        Good. Various opinions.

        Great stuff to consider. I may create a FAQ type site to give all the information a questionnaire (I almost always spell it wrong)... would ask.

        One word on STORY. Which seems to be a volleyball subject. Some of you want to find the story behind the product ... the hidden or secret story...and

        some of you want to tell a story.

        Great. Just let me remind you of the Joe Karbo original ad for LAZY MAN. Joe told the entire story on one page of a magazine ad. The poor man to rich man part was told in a few paragraphs. Then he got into the if I can do it so can you part of his ad.

        If you are going to tell a story from the first person, it has to snap, crackle and pop. You don't need to write a novel, nor drone on and on about the character featured in the story...read a few Carlton ads on golf and you see the story of the character in his headlines...

        One legged golfer sez it all regarding what can be done in golf.

        You don't have to do a ONCE UPON A TIME, blah, blah, blah...

        Your story shouldn't be used as a sleep inducer.

        Get your character up a tree, throw rocks, get him down.

        Just because you have unlimited space online, if your story doesn't hold the reader's interest, if one sentence doesn't lead into the story and advances the reader's interest to desire and action...it is wasted time.

        Thanks again, hopefully we'll get some more feedback,

        The time you have taken to respond is appreciated.

        gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author RHert
    Mike is right. Part of copywriting is finding the story behind the product. Finding that takes time and information and the more information you can give the easier it will be to find.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
      I find that either the client (it usually is the client), or one of the staff or the product or service itself always has a fascinating story.


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      • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
        Long form, improvised interviews with clients or editors are where you can get some real gems of info to turn into copy. I rarely glean much copy fodder from questionairres.

        Of course, there are exceptions. If an experienced client has some sales copy know-how they can give you some useable angles. But most of the time, clients don't give you what you need. Not that this is a bad thing... because research and interviewing clients is good exploratory fun, at least for me.

        If I can also add...

        Unless you are mindful, the main problem with questionairres can be this:

        They let your client "frame" the project in your own mind too much. When what most projects are crying out for is a "new" viewpoint, outside of what the client deems noteworthy.

        --- Ross
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        • Profile picture of the author Traci
          Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

          Long form, improvised interviews with clients or editors are where you can get some real gems of info to turn into copy. I rarely glean much copy fodder from questionairres.

          Of course, there are exceptions. If an experienced client has some sales copy know-how they can give you some useable angles. But most of the time, clients don't give you what you need. Not that this is a bad thing... because research and interviewing clients is good exploratory fun, at least for me.

          If I can also add...

          Unless you are mindful, the main problem with questionairres can be this:

          They let your client "frame" the project in your own mind too much. When what most projects are crying out for is a "new" viewpoint, outside of what the client deems noteworthy.

          --- Ross

          Exactly Ross!

          Good example...I was approached by a company who had one staff copywriter do all of their copy....websites, emails, product descriptions, sales messages, etc. They wanted something completely different. A new voice, new angle, new attitude. So they wanted me to take their info and run with it in a whole new direction. Problem was, they were so 'into' their current stuff, they gave me so much information on their current copy, so much opinion on why it had worked so far and why they liked it, I was almost to the point where I wanted to ask "So why do you want it changed?!"

          It took me a couple days to finally just forget everything they had given me, look at just the technical side of their products and start at the beginning. Ended up working out great, but like you said, they had framed it up so much, it was like they were handing me a finished product.

          General information about the product, what it does, what you expect from it, what your target market is (I think that's where a lot of copywriters lose focus - selling to the wrong person), and what your currect copy is doing should be enough to get something out of a new copywriter.


          Traci
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    Questionnaires are useful but not necessary. If you dont want to answer them they can still make copy that sells.

    Its like chocolate, its nice to have, but your not going to die if you dont eat it. If the copywriter is good it shouldnt matter. Granted, if your putting them up against the best in the business and they're trying to beat a strong control you should do it.

    If this is not so competitive then its like chocolate, nice to have, but not a necessity. Most questionaires are sales tools for copywriters as much as they are for writing copy.

    Granted, you should normally give people everything you can because they are ultimately trying to help you sell your products. It is stupid not to if you ask me. If your running an agency type business or a large DM department, then well its a different story. You simply lack the time to run around doing it all day.

    What I would do is take all their questions you answered, put them together, then shoot out the questionnaire to your copywriters.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    In your case Gordon, I think catering to their requests and supplying the information is a BIG mistake, especially giving them other winning promotions.

    It's not about you doing the work for them, or them being lazy or whatever...

    It's about you looking for something different. Something fresh. And at the same time something that converts.

    I have a couple rather successful Clients and they deliberately give me as little direction as possible. This lack of direction extends to the offer, pricing, risk reversal and bonuses.

    They're looking for something different. They do not want to influence my thinking.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      I'm pretty much thinking the same thing...but a couple of the cubs have sent questionnaries and as a courtesy to them, I filled them out, thinking there would be only a couple of people taking me up on the offer...

      And as of this morning I have over 25...and simply don't have the time NOR do I feel it necessary to answer questions...so, since about number 5, I have simply sent everyone the same info which is

      the product
      and TWO promotions already producing sales...

      I think that sufficient to create copy from...but, I'm open minded.

      Which brings me to the tale of TWO young copywriters, both of their copy being rejected.

      ONE guy blasts me, thinks I'm going to steal his copy and make a fortune...I offer to post it here without any names and let the cw forum give him feedback...he declines declaring I'm some blackhat operator....

      The other guy writes and asks for another try...so I take some time and point out why I rejected along with some ideas he could try.

      Guess which one I'll spend some time with to assist in his efforts?

      And in my opinion, I should just send the product and let them go from there...something DIFFERENT indeed.

      Thanks again Rick for taking your time to help. You're a valued member of this forum.

      gjabiz


      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      In your case Gordon, I think catering to their requests and supplying the information is a BIG mistake, especially giving them other winning promotions.

      It's not about you doing the work for them, or them being lazy or whatever...

      It's about you looking for something different. Something fresh. And at the same time something that converts.

      I have a couple rather successful Clients and they deliberately give me as little direction as possible. This lack of direction extends to the offer, pricing, risk reversal and bonuses.

      They're looking for something different. They do not want to influence my thinking.

      - Rick Duris
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