"Dumb" Denny Hatch Accidentally Teaches Valuable Copywriting Lesson...

10 replies
First off, I've learned loads from Denny Hatch and respect the guy a lot. BUT... his latest "common sense" article is just plain dumb.

Read it below:

Get Prospects to Read More Than 140 Characters in the Era of the Twitterverse : Page 1 of 2 : Denny Hatch’s Business Common Sense from the Target Marketing Group

Anyone want to have a crack at everything wrong with this?

I have an inside-track on this promo, but I don't think I'm being unfair considering Denny FREAKIN' Hatch is behind this "verbal dysentery."

I'll share my thoughts in a bit...

Colm
#accidentally #copywriting #denny #dumb #hatch #lesson #teaches #valuable
  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    As I sit here, I'm looking at a copy of 2,239 Tested Secrets for Direct Marketing Success.

    The conclusions drawn in that piece are certainly not one of them.

    Those exiting can read the full long-copy sales page via exit-pop (though it's not instantly obvious that's what will happen - only whether you want to Leave Page or Stay On Page).

    That's one among several proven strategies for keeping viewers engaged.

    Another is to pop the buy button/long copy under the video when mousing over to the back button or close window button.

    Another is to grey out the buy button underneath the video until certain times.

    Another is to simply segment the page visually, with long copy in a separate layout underneath a hot looking video player skin.

    Among the easiest is to simply provide a link underneath the video that allows those who want to read to do so NOW by clicking on it.

    There's no question that controlling the pace and momentum of the sales message is extremely powerful and closes those who hang in there decisively - just like a great salesman who keeps the prospect engaged all the way through the pitch until the close.

    But there are still ways to harness that juju without going "all in" on no controls, etc.

    And even if you do - there are ways to mitigate the "ugh" factor - Kevin Rogers and Ben Johnson used an ingenious timer device in the corner of a long sales video recently that very subtly, but very powerfully lets the viewer know what's coming and that it will only be another few minutes until then.

    Kev and Ben still get to control the message, but it lets the viewer feel like they have more control - they know what to expect (and whether or not to wait around for it).

    Best,

    Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    Okay, so before I reveal the valuable lesson Hatch is accidentally teaching (all copywriters and marketers need to know this), here's every dumb thing I can find in his article...

    #1. The Twitter user demographic (young girls) doesn't represent the whole internet, and definitely not subscribers of financial newsletters (old men). In fact, they're the EXACT OPPOSITE!

    #2. From what I can deduce, this Bill Egner fellow is a liberal blogger. Again, the opposite of the target market.

    #3. Denny compiled "Million Dollar Mailings" and founded (I think) "Who's Mailing What?" End of America has been running for at least a year and is Agora's most successful front-end package ever!

    Why is it he's only just now hearing about this promo?

    So he's trying to position himself as a direct marketing expert and proving he's completely out of touch with what's working now -- in the same article!

    #4. Denny says the promo was too long. Then he says he was compelled to sit through the whole thing (even though he was bursting for the toilet) and had even been convinced to buy...

    Until he searched "Porter Stansberry" and found out about his SEC fine. That's the reason he didn't buy, not because of the length of the letter.

    #5. He also criticizes a VIDEO promotion as something that's NOT trying to overcome the marketing challenge of a "population of non-readers..." Eh?

    #6. The Claude Hopkins quote doesn't mention length. It simply says prospects are busier than ever and won't read your sales message "unless you make it worth their while..."

    #7. Finally, he criticizes the inability to skip ahead... the single biggest thing most who've used and tested this format claim to be the reason behind its amazing success.

    Pretty dumb overall.

    Newbies are supposed to whine about copy being too long, not Denny Hatch... or so I thought.

    So, where's the valuable lesson to be learned from my over the top, perhaps a little nasty and way too long rant?

    Simply this...

    NOBODY (even Denny Hatch) knows what's going to work, that's why you ALWAYS TEST.

    As Dr. Flint McGlaughlin says: "You can't be an expert marketer, only an experienced one. But you can be an expert tester."

    Yep, just ANOTHER rant about the importance of testing...

    Bit of a let down considering how unnecessarily long winded this is, right?

    Well, it was free lesson so quit your belly aching!

    Colm

    P.S. Other than this brain fart I highly recommend subscribing to Denny Hatch's newsletter and buying his stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
      Originally Posted by colmodwyer View Post

      #3. Denny compiled "Million Dollar Mailings" and founded (I think) "Who's Mailing What?" End of America has been running for at least a year and is Agora's most successful front-end package ever!

      Why is it he's only just now hearing about this promo?

      So he's trying to position himself as a direct marketing expert and proving he's completely out of touch with what's working now -- in the same article!
      Yeah... he seemed bizarrely out of touch on this one.

      --- Ross
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill D.
      Originally Posted by colmodwyer View Post

      #2. From what I can deduce, this Bill Egner fellow is a liberal blogger. Again, the opposite of the target market.

      #3. Denny compiled "Million Dollar Mailings" and founded (I think) "Who's Mailing What?" End of America has been running for at least a year and is Agora's most successful front-end package ever!

      Why is it he's only just now hearing about this promo?

      So he's trying to position himself as a direct marketing expert and proving he's completely out of touch with what's working now -- in the same article!

      #4. Denny says the promo was too long. Then he says he was compelled to sit through the whole thing (even though he was bursting for the toilet) and had even been convinced to buy...

      Until he searched "Porter Stansberry" and found out about his SEC fine. That's the reason he didn't buy, not because of the length of the letter.


      #7. Finally, he criticizes the inability to skip ahead... the single biggest thing most who've used and tested this format claim to be the reason behind its amazing success.

      Pretty dumb overall.
      This is a prime example why you should NEVER blindly follow anyone and accept what they say as dogma.

      Hatch is entitled to believe what he wants, but he allows his ideology to cloud his judgement.

      As Colm said, this campain happens to be one of the most successful DM campaigns ever, but Hatch can only complain. Not once in his analysis did he mention the results that this campaign is achieving. Isn't that what direct marketing is about?
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Denny's still my idol. His Million Dollar Mailings is a treasure.

        The big takeaway I got was not to let my opinion get in the way of facts of the matter.

        - Rick Duris
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Rogers
          Great thread. I'm also a big Denny Hatch fan and found this post stunningly off kilter when I read it.

          Best part was when I forwarded it to Ben, who came sightly unglued over it.

          Here's a portion of our skype conversation:

          12/13/11 10:15 PM
          I find it interesting... scratch that, infuriating... that Target Marketing (and Denny Hatch, no less!) opines on and on about Stansbury's video without once stopping to consider that if they're spending "serious money" advertising this video repeatedly, it might be... gasp... WORKING.

          In fact, I know it's working because Benson apparently is familiar with the campaign and mentioned to Dean Jackson on the ILM podcast that the campaign was killing it.

          Granted it's incredibly long even by VSL standards at 77 minutes, but it relentlessly builds its case in a way that I can imagine would be compelling for a good prospect (you can see the text version to get an idea if you visit the video and click the back button).


          12/13/11 10:21 PM
          And not for nothing, but that blogger Hatch links to in the article is straying pretty dangerously into libel territory by calling Stansbury a "con man" -- I have no idea if he is or not, but neither does this guy. Sloppy. I hate sloppy.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

          Denny's still my idol. His Million Dollar Mailings is a treasure.
          Denny is great. I had the pleasure of meeting him last year. He was a guest speaker at my local marketing group and amazingly I had the opportunity to talk with him for about 15 minutes uninterrupted before the meeting began.

          He's truly a wealth of knowledge IMHO.

          The big takeaway I got was not to let my opinion get in the way of facts of the matter.

          - Rick Duris
          I agree 100%.

          I will say that it's quite possible that Agora and Denny/Target Marketing don't share their campaign results with each other. It's also quite possible that there are things that they don't see eye to eye on either.

          Call it a few educated hunches based on some things I've been told that I can't publicly reveal.

          Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
            Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

            Call it a few educated hunches based on some things I've been told that I can't publicly reveal.
            Tis' the season for teasin'.

            --- Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Colm,

    Thanks again for this thread - I wound up having a very pleasant round of emails back and forth with Denny Hatch as result.

    That happy accident would not have happened had you not posted this.

    Best,

    Brian
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