Copywriters! Your Opinion Please - Should We Have A Critiques Sub Forum?

I vote yes. A lot of people like advice, yet there doesn't seem to be a specific place on the forum for this.

I could be wrong though - I'm still new here.

Absolutely, but it's not up to us. Besides, the people posting for crits here don't bother to read the copywriting forum charter so I'm not sure they'd stop posting the crit requests in here anyway.

I'd like a permaban on anyone posting crits in here

bans are kind of harsh for a first time offense.

I went through the sticky threads in the copywrite area, and didn't find anything that said not to post threads about asking for constructive criticism regarding copywrite in this area. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

In my professional opinion, a professional critique of a professional sales piece by a professional copywriter is a professional service and should be handled accordingly.

That's probably the forum's record for using that one word professional in a single sentence? LOL. Definitely not pithy, but I didn't want to leave any confusion as to
my particular stance on this issue.

And the reason for this is simple.

Yes, there will always be "head-cutters" and those who will rush in to undercut
the true professional's fee for a service.

Usually any previously perceived and should we say, "so-called" savings quickly disappear and turn into an expense the person requesting the critique becomes liable for because the hack has trespassed into the arena reserved for the professional.

Yes, there are always the arguments that this is a free market and price wars in relation to demand are fair game.

That's not what I'm talking about at all here. And I hope those who wish to comment
on this particular aspect of the discussion will have the decency to avoid such juvenile flim-flam rhetoric.

What I'm talking about is more along the lines of the single mother who trusts Johnny-jack-all to "fix" her brakes because he's rushed in with his offer to 'save her'
from the crying shame... the real mechanic was going to charge her a few hundred bucks to do the repair. And offer his company's warranty.

Well if you've been around the block, you know how this story ends.

She gives him the money upfront and he says he "fixes" the brakes.

She's on her way back from picking up baby from daycare and while on the street
depresses the brake pedal and BAM!

That wasn't the sound of the brakes squealing either.

It was the crash of glass and metal that drowned out the panic-stricken screams of desperation.

It wasn't fair. The baby had no choice in the matter. But still the young family's loved ones (who would have gladly loaned her the money needed to pay the professional if they knew she would have even given "Johnny" more than a passing dismissive thought,) still had to pay their respects when they attended the funeral services.

Such tragic loss.

The young offer could have been strengthened to the point of irresistible and the letter could have had the midnight oil from the pro grease it to "slippery-slide" status,
ready to rock the house for profits from every prospect in the market even remotely qualified.

Oh how the tiny investment into the expert eagle eye experience of the professional who cuts this, adds that, rewords this and suggests that edit there, could have truly prevented any rubber-meets-road disaster and replaced it with such a sales-producing monster of a letter,

...the only "emergency" happens to be how to figure out the best way to respond
to all the new business and orders!

It's for this reason, I believe copywriters should unite on this front and take the stand to preserve what is precious.

For the consumer, for our client, for future copywriters in this forum and... for our collective copywriter conscience's sake!

We are doing no business owner, marketer, publisher or product creator ANY favors
by offering a free critique.

Again! We all know the argument on how you could use the critique as a lead generator for other services.

But is this what the client wants? Knowing the only reason the copywriter is
doing the critique is to "upsell" on some other service like a rewrite based on the critique's edit suggestions or a new sales letter altogether?

To know that they simply "went through the motions" of offering the critique just so they can then use it as a tool to sell the client on the letter?

A thousand times NO!

This is what threatens to erode the value of the craft and it's a slap in the face
of those true professionals who have spent countless hours agonizing over mastering their craft so they can bring true value to the table for every one of their clients each and every time.

If we as copywriters don't unite and take the stand to protect the value of our craft and draw the line in the sand where it belongs, we'd only have ourselves to blame for bowing to the pressures of those business owners who view cw's as nothing more than slave puppet commodities put here on this earth to cave in to the beck and call of every one who has a product to sell but now you discover you need copy to sell it.

I charge $500 for a video critique.

I don't use it to "upsell" to a rewrite.

However, should after receiving the critique, my client decides they want me to
create their letter or even write their entire campaign from scratch,

then I will apply the cost of the critique against their new investment so they
save some money.

Now, I don't have to do this, mind you. I simply do this as a courtesy for my clients who
have put some skin in the game.

I feel that the moment we condone critiques as if it's just another "warrior post"
is the moment you sign your name on the petition to legally change your dying daughter's name to shameless whore.

I promise I'm not trying to be evasive on the way I feel about this.

It would make it easier to look for tips and stories about copywriting.

I had a graphics question and made a thread, and when I came back later that day it had fallen to a back page because of all the critiques.

Even using the search feature, most results show up as a critique thread.

I don't have a problem with people posting them, but I wish there was a feature that allowed me to browse the forum without seeing critique requests.

Guess I'm the only one rooting for the sexy bikini models as a requirement....


But seriously, I vote yes just to keep the forum more organized. I personally read these threads to learn more from others and to gain knowledge from the perspective of other copywriters.

I skip over the critique request because honestly, they should hire a copywriter if they are serious about their business and pay for these critiques. If they DID hire a copywriter and got crap writing, it's probably because they found a "discount" copywriter and basically got what they paid for.

I'm all for helping people but 98% of the critique request threads I've seen on here, the ones making the request are offering no value in return, only expecting something for nothing.

I vote for a separate sub forum, but as it's been mentioned we don't really have the say so... then again, I also voted for the sexy bikini models so really I'm not much of a factor in what should go on here

You're flogging a dead horse Maximus.


Mark Andrews

Apparently almost everyone else feels the same way I do, and the horse cant be dead if the problem is still here.

There's a difference between

1. a website owner coming in, and asking for free advice so that they don't have to pay someone else to do it.

and

2. a copywriter showing their existing work, and asking for advice to help them become an overall better copywriter.

Case 1 threads should be deleted. Case 2 threads should be allowed.

Yes, ultimately Ken is the copy chief and mod of these parts and of course at the end of the day it's up to Big Allen.

Looks like presently three's not really enough traffic in the copywriting forum to justify a separate section for critiques from the business and management perspective.

I'm willing to wager that you may be able to find a relatively affordable copywriter
who offers their critique service and that you resonate with in the warriors for hire section. (I haven't looked and haven't offered the service there...only speculating).

And if not, that may be a smart move for copywriters looking to offer critiques to start off a relationship with a client and a good way to prove their chops can help increase their conversions.

There are some good cases for and cases against here. Of course, you all know my opinion as just a warrior on it, but it's good to discuss anyway.

I'm not the type that's going to take my ball and go home if I don't "get my way" lol.

For many of the warrior copywriters I've asked about it though,

the "free" critique and request for it is= the copywriting forum's kissin' cousin of the "Can I have a review copy of your Warrior Special Offer?".

The Warrior Forum - Should We Allow Critique Requests?