8 Things That P*** Me Off About Copywriters

by max5ty
52 replies
1. New copywriters are always quoting someone...

"Kennedy said this..."

Halbert said this..."

2. They lack any skills to be creative...

Everything they do is always based on what someone else has already done.

3, Most are Introverts.

Most copywriters by nature are introverts...they're not the most popular person at the party...they're usually the one that hangs back and is shy.

4. They're Suckers for any new idea...

Since most copywriters are salesman at heart...they usually will be the first to fall for any scam or scheme.

5. They're always talking about themselves...

Ever notice most of the posts on the WF?...Most usually go back to the person placing the post talking about themselves.

6. They're easily led astray...

Most copywriters can easily be led astray with someone pitching a new idea or selling a new course...how many have you bought?

7. They're usually loners...

Most copywriters are usually unhappy with others...if they don't fall into their definition of the perfect person.

8. They're all knowing...

Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way.

Try and challenge their way of thinking...you've lost them.

Just a couple thoughts
#copywriters #things
  • Profile picture of the author Studio13
    Thanks for that gnarly pontification.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    They're all knowing...

    Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way.

    Try and challenge their way of thinking...you've lost them.
    This is just ego.

    Everybody's got one.

    Veteran copywriters tend to believe they KNOW IT ALL (regardless of the fact that almost everything they learned is from other people!)

    Now, we ALL know that nobody has ALL the answers.

    But when you're accustomed to perceive things in a very particular way, for a long, long time, it's easy to argue with everyone and say, "YOU'RE WRONG!"

    Of course, this is a trait of someone who is easily threatened by the knowledge, awareness and expertise of other people with opinions.

    The point is...

    Drop the know-it-all facade and LISTEN!

    You don't know everything.

    I don't care how much money you've made for yourself and/or other people.

    REAL abundance is created by someone who is happy in ALL areas of their lives.

    Likewise...

    All areas of your life affect your work and money.

    ANY conversation we have here on the CW Forum is about MORE than just the art of copywriting.

    It's about who we are and HOW we use our unique perspectives to HELP other people overcome their own limitations to make gobs and gobs of money.

    That being said...

    I agree, copywriters are an interesting bunch of coconuts.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author abugah
      Originally Posted by Reflection Marketing View Post

      .


      That being said...

      I agree, copywriters are an interesting bunch of coconuts.

      Mark

      That's fascinating.
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  • Profile picture of the author itsjordan
    They use the terms "masterclass" and "revolution" to describe an ebook
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  • Profile picture of the author Tinkerbell
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    1. New copywriters are always quoting someone... They lack any skills to be creative...
    Tina Adams says: You must be right -- wait. I just quoted myself. I just quoted you. I'd quote some"thing" but no"thing" I've ever seen talked or typed or communicated anything I'd wanna repeat, so it'd be kinda hard to quote... unless you want me to tell you my washing machine said, " ."

    Yeah, I know. That was bad. I've been trying to teach him not to curse. Sorry.

    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    2. They lack any skills to be creative...Everything they do is always based on what someone else has already done.
    Nothing new under the sun, Max5ty. No future vision goggles, either. How would you have us base things we do on something which happens five or ten years from now?

    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    4. They're Suckers for any new idea...Since most copywriters are salesman at heart...they usually will be the first to fall for any scam or scheme.
    "New Ideas" like ... quoting inanimate objects? Basing our work on some proven strategy or tactic from the future? Darn, I AM a sucker.

    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    8. They're all knowing...Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way. Try and challenge their way of thinking...you've lost them.
    Happens all the time for me. But then, I know I'm always right, even when I'm wrong, so... lol.

    Okay, okay, so I just wanted to post something, and decided to make light of your post. Apologies. It's Sunday afternoon and I'm bored.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by Tinkerbell View Post

      Okay, okay, so I just wanted to post something, and decided to make light of your post. Apologies. It's Sunday afternoon and I'm bored.
      Your posts are always good...put something up and we'll talk about it.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        3, Most are Introverts.

        Most copywriters by nature are introverts...they're not the most popular person at the party
        How can that p**s you off? Are you p**ssed off at tall people? People with freckles? Folks that stutter? People with the ability to run like the wind?

        Introverts are born that way.

        I'd rather hang out any day with people who would rather not go to dumb parties. They may not talk much but they have more to say.

        Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    If someone describes himself as a "killer copywriter" - run the other way. Or throw up. Or both.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    I find that the principle of avoiding "always" and "never" (and avoiding mass generalizations) when describing things of this nature typically works for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    8. They're all knowing...

    Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way.

    Try and challenge their way of thinking...you've lost them.

    Just a couple thoughts
    Probably the best response to that last point is anyone who wants to accomplish anything will think their way is the right way.

    The people that don't think that way, from my experience, are the people who tend to not get anything done.

    From your prior posts, I don't *think* you get ticked off at people who actually do something.

    Marvin
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    • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
      Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

      Probably the best response to that last point is anyone who wants to accomplish anything will think their way is the right way.

      The people that don't think that way, from my experience, are the people who tend to not get anything done.

      Marvin
      In the things I've done that I've been successful at, each one, I thought were A right way for me, NOT THE right way for all.

      I have come to learn there can be many "right" ways. As I always so, the proof is in the results.

      I don't believe that thinking your way is the right way and getting anything done that gets results is in any way related.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    1. New copywriters are always quoting someone...

    "Kennedy said this..."

    Halbert said this..."
    Well, if Dan Kennedy or Gary Halbert is talking... I'm listening. I'll gladly cop to that. ; )

    Still, I think I understand your point about being slavish to the greats and the classic books.

    I've had my own run-ins with folks here after posting comments that contravene "conventional wisdom".

    My take is simple... stifling innovative thought because someone else said something in a book once upon a time? Your heroes would never be bridled by that, why should you?

    Question everything, often.

    2. They lack any skills to be creative...

    Everything they do is always based on what someone else has already done.
    This one makes me shift uncomfortably in my seat a little bit.

    "Creative" is a mighty dangerous word for copywriters, although it's vital.

    That's why smart marketers have the wonderful escape valve of TESTING, right?

    Go friggin' nuts if you want, all in the name of creativity.

    The numbers are impartial.

    And the best part is, if your artistically fulfilling creative wins, you can crow about it endlessly - and you will.

    3, Most are Introverts.

    Most copywriters by nature are introverts...they're not the most popular person at the party...they're usually the one that hangs back and is shy.
    Yeah... copywriters hate attention. LOL

    4. They're Suckers for any new idea...

    Since most copywriters are salesman at heart...they usually will be the first to fall for any scam or scheme.
    I don't think this is true at all - at least not the way it's phrased.

    If anything, I think copywriters tend to respect the hustle more than others, and give ourselves permission to explore more freely - with less attachment to outcomes.

    Call it "impulsive science" if you want to attach a label to it.

    Sometimes that's where the breakthroughs come from.

    5. They're always talking about themselves...

    Ever notice most of the posts on the WF?...Most usually go back to the person placing the post talking about themselves.


    6. They're easily led astray...

    Most copywriters can easily be led astray with someone pitching a new idea or selling a new course...how many have you bought?
    Not specific to copywriters, just replace "copywriters" with "people".

    7. They're usually loners...

    Most copywriters are usually unhappy with others...if they don't fall into their definition of the perfect person.
    Well, copywriting is by its very nature a solitary craft.

    Ever sit at a conference table with a room full of knuckleheads chiming in about every other sentence? Writing copy by committee is one of the most frustrating punishments on earth.

    So, yeah - one can expect to do lots of "quiet time" by yourself if you want to write copy for a living.

    But I'm not sure how that next logical jump gets all the way over to "unhappy with others that don't fit their definition of the perfect person".

    8. They're all knowing...

    Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way.

    Try and challenge their way of thinking...you've lost them.
    Ok, I understand your point about rigid thinking, and inflexible thinkers. I do...

    But but but but...

    We're not hired for our flexibility, or our creativity... or our flowing prose. You know this.

    We're hired to be RIGHT more than we're wrong about what to say to create a result.

    Otherwise, why on earth would any intelligent business person fork over $5k, $10k, $30k, $100k... plus a piece of the backend.. to ANY copywriter... except for a proven track record of the copywriter being right, and knowing what to do in their situation?

    Anyway - this is certainly more fun that typing about jets, cars and why everyone else is broke.

    Happy Advertising Orgy Day,

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      Well, if Dan Kennedy or Gary Halbert is talking... I'm listening. I'll gladly cop to that. ; )

      Still, I think I understand your point about being slavish to the greats and the classic books.

      I've had my own run-ins with folks here after posting comments that contravene "conventional wisdom".

      My take is simple... stifling innovative thought because someone else said something in a book once upon a time? Your heroes would never be bridled by that, why should you?

      Question everything, often.



      This one makes me shift uncomfortably in my seat a little bit.

      "Creative" is a mighty dangerous word for copywriters, although it's vital.

      That's why smart marketers have the wonderful escape valve of TESTING, right?

      Go friggin' nuts if you want, all in the name of creativity.

      The numbers are impartial.

      And the best part is, if your artistically fulfilling creative wins, you can crow about it endlessly - and you will.



      Yeah... copywriters hate attention. LOL



      I don't think this is true at all - at least not the way it's phrased.

      If anything, I think copywriters tend to respect the hustle more than others, and give ourselves permission to explore more freely - with less attachment to outcomes.

      Call it "impulsive science" if you want to attach a label to it.

      Sometimes that's where the breakthroughs come from.







      Not specific to copywriters, just replace "copywriters" with "people".



      Well, copywriting is by its very nature a solitary craft.

      Ever sit at a conference table with a room full of knuckleheads chiming in about every other sentence? Writing copy by committee is one of the most frustrating punishments on earth.

      So, yeah - one can expect to do lots of "quiet time" by yourself if you want to write copy for a living.

      But I'm not sure how that next logical jump gets all the way over to "unhappy with others that don't fit their definition of the perfect person".



      Ok, I understand your point about rigid thinking, and inflexible thinkers. I do...

      But but but but...

      We're not hired for our flexibility, or our creativity... or our flowing prose. You know this.

      We're hired to be RIGHT more than we're wrong about what to say to create a result.

      Otherwise, why on earth would any intelligent business person fork over $5k, $10k, $30k, $100k... plus a piece of the backend.. to ANY copywriter... except for a proven track record of the copywriter being right, and knowing what to do in their situation?

      Anyway - this is certainly more fun that typing about jets, cars and why everyone else is broke.

      Happy Advertising Orgy Day,

      Brian
      Thanks for the feedback Brian.

      When I first got on this forum...which wasn't too long ago, I thought you were just another a**hole with a big signature.

      Then I got to looking into your work...copywriters know how to do good research

      I was amazed at your ability...

      You're definitely one of the best there is.
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      • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
        Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

        Thanks for the feedback Brian.

        When I first got on this forum...which wasn't too long ago, I thought you were just another a**hole with a big signature.

        Then I got to looking into your work...copywriters know how to do good research

        I was amazed at your ability...

        You're definitely one of the best there is.
        I appreciate that... but honestly, it's just not true.

        I'm very fortunate to be around and work with guys who really ARE some of the very best in the biz. Garf is an obvious example. But same with David Deutsch - his work will humble ya, real fast.

        Yeah, I'm damn good. Way better than most.

        One of the best in the biz? Not even close... not yet... probably never.

        Best,

        Brian
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        • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
          Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

          I appreciate that... but honestly, it's just not true.

          I'm very fortunate to be around and work with guys who really ARE some of the very best in the biz. Garf is an obvious example. But same with David Deutsch - his work will humble ya, real fast.

          Yeah, I'm damn good. Way better than most.

          One of the best in the biz? Not even close... not yet... probably never.

          Best,

          Brian
          WTF!!!

          You humble son of a...

          How ANNOYING. I mean...

          Impressive. I'm impressed. Pascal would be, too.

          Marc

          PS. I like turtles.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
          "Yeah, I'm damn good. Way better than most.

          One of the best in the biz? Not even close...."

          I thought you were a rocker, Brian

          Now you're rapping too- Lol.


          Jeffels



          .
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      1. True.

      2. Codswallop.

      3. Bafflegab.

      4. Piffle.

      5. Possibly.

      6. Tripe.

      7. Hmmmmm.

      8. Kagmag.


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
    3, Most are Introverts.

    Most copywriters by nature are introverts...they're not the most popular person at the party...they're usually the one that hangs back and is shy.



    Speak for yourself darling, I'm certainly NOT one of those shrinking violets...and in any case, introverts tend to be pretty wise as they listen and observe more than just talk...




    4. They're Suckers for any new idea...

    Since most copywriters are salesman at heart...they usually will be the first to fall for any scam or scheme.



    Not really - I like 'falling' for new ideas because I like to dissect how effective the copy is...

    And I like to see all elements of the copy like the report and the video blah blah


    5. They're always talking about themselves...


    You mean like you do about your Bently's and jets?



    6. They're easily led astray...

    Most copywriters can easily be led astray with someone pitching a new idea or selling a new course...how many have you bought?



    Ok, you got me there....



    7. They're usually loners...

    Most copywriters are usually unhappy with others...if they don't fall into their definition of the perfect person.



    Rubbish. Copywriting is a lonely skill because most of your time is spent working for yourself from the sanctuary of your own office...but that doesn't make us loners at all!


    8. They're all knowing...

    Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way.

    Try and challenge their way of thinking...you've lost them.

    Just a couple thoughts



    Well, I've seen enough scraps on this forum to say that's probably true...
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by arfasaira View Post

      3, Most are Introverts.

      Most copywriters by nature are introverts...they're not the most popular person at the party...they're usually the one that hangs back and is shy.



      Speak for yourself darling, I'm certainly NOT one of those shrinking violets...and in any case, introverts tend to be pretty wise as they listen and observe more than just talk...




      4. They're Suckers for any new idea...

      Since most copywriters are salesman at heart...they usually will be the first to fall for any scam or scheme.



      Not really - I like 'falling' for new ideas because I like to dissect how effective the copy is...

      And I like to see all elements of the copy like the report and the video blah blah


      5. They're always talking about themselves...


      You mean like you do about your Bently's and jets?



      6. They're easily led astray...

      Most copywriters can easily be led astray with someone pitching a new idea or selling a new course...how many have you bought?



      Ok, you got me there....



      7. They're usually loners...

      Most copywriters are usually unhappy with others...if they don't fall into their definition of the perfect person.



      Rubbish. Copywriting is a lonely skill because most of your time is spent working for yourself from the sanctuary of your own office...but that doesn't make us loners at all!


      8. They're all knowing...

      Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way.

      Try and challenge their way of thinking...you've lost them.

      Just a couple thoughts



      Well, I've seen enough scraps on this forum to say that's probably true...
      Thanks Arfa, you're my favorite female copywriter...only because you're good at what you do.

      On second thought...you're better than most, irregardless of what sex they are.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        8. Kagmag.
        I have to say, I have learned more foreign (foreign to me, at least) slang on the Warrior Forum than in any other venue or medium.

        Thank you.

        Marcia Yudkin
        Signature
        Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
          Banned
          Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

          I have to say, I have learned more foreign (foreign to me, at least) slang on the Warrior Forum than in any other venue or medium.

          Thank you.

          Marcia Yudkin
          Kagmag is a Black Country expression meaning, bad meat.

          And the Black Country - Black Country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          Kindest regards,


          Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
        Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

        Thanks Arfa, you're my favorite female copywriter...only because you're good at what you do.

        On second thought...you're better than most, irregardless of what sex they are.
        Thanks a lot...although...

        I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not! :p
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        • Profile picture of the author max5ty
          Originally Posted by arfasaira View Post

          Thanks a lot...although...

          I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not! :p
          Of course I'm serious...

          I spent about 4 hours a few weeks ago looking at all your work...I could find...at the end of my research, I thought...wow, she's good.
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  • Profile picture of the author OliviaHoang
    WOW! All of that describes me PERFECTLY!

    Did you think anyone would admit that?
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  • I read through most of the first post and I was like, "Pfft, whatever. That's not me."

    Then I got to Number 7 and I was like, "Alright. Touche."
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Are you talking about ALL copywriters, or NEW copywriters?

    Either way, seems like a sweeping generalization to me, even if you're talking about NEW copywriters.

    But if we're playing that game, then I'd like to add:

    9. They write misleading headlines.

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    • Profile picture of the author Shawn Lee
      1. New copywriters are always quoting someone...

      For anyone who is new in anything, of course they do not have much experience. Hence, the only knowledge the have probably comes from someone else. This is true for most of anything out there.

      2. They lack any skills to be creative...

      Take a look at SEO. Take a look at the education sector. Take a look at the IT sector. What I'm saying is that, for every area in life, there will always be a small percentage of elites that will far exceed the majority in terms of performance (or creativity). Personally, I've seen quite a few unconventional and creative sales copy (perhaps you were not looking hard enough).

      3, Most are Introverts.

      Firstly, you know too little information on the copywriter's true personality to judge them. The nature of copywriting itself may be introversion oriented, but that does not mean that the writer himself is an introverted. Secondly, by this statement, I can guess that you don't know much about personalities. They way you say it makes me think that you have a very negative view about introverts. I just got to say, Google "MBTI". It may shock you to find out that introverts are not what you think they are.

      4. They're Suckers for any new idea...

      Valid point. Haha.

      5. They're always talking about themselves...

      It's called marketing. Everyone does this. If you don't say how good your services are, no one is going to buy baby. Although many of the better copywriters don't really do this.

      6. They're easily led astray...

      This depends on the individual.

      7. They're usually loners...

      Again, Google "MBTI". You may see introverts as loners, rude, etc whereas they may see you as arrogant, fake, etc. It's just a personality clash.

      8. They're all knowing...

      Again, applies to almost every sector of life and business.




      In conclusion, I find this post very immature. There's no way anyone could make such a sweeping statement on any industry. For every vocation, there are bound to be all types of people. While they may be some copywriters who will fit your description, there are many others who are like nothing you've mentioned. Finally, all I can say is it depends on the individual, though the nature of the job has some influence on it.
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      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        Originally Posted by Shawn Lee View Post

        In conclusion, I find this post very immature. There's no way anyone could make such a sweeping statement on any industry. For every vocation, there are bound to be all types of people.
        Accountants are....................?

        Engineers are........................?

        etc

        Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author CopyMonster
    Seriously Max?

    Give them power much?

    Just saying.
    Signature
    Scary good...
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Guys, this whole post was about my personal thoughts.

    No matter what any say, most of what I said is spot on.

    If you disagree with the post...I appreciate your feedback.

    I still stand by what I wrote.
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryADensa
    So what's the point you're trying to make -- that copywriters are human, all too much so?

    So what, even if all that you say is true -- and you hire a copywriter that is all that and more (or worse) but yet lifts your conversions, increases your sales -- makes you money -- exponentially more than you paid said copywriter -- why would you care whether they are... less than humble?
    Signature

    Barry A Densa - Freelance Marketing & Sales Copywriter - WritingWithPersonality.com

    Download a FREE copy of my new eBook, containing 21 of my most outrageous rants, when you visit my blog: Marketing Wit & Wisdom

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  • Profile picture of the author buckeyes09
    Broad strokes much?
    Signature

    Christian

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  • Profile picture of the author linaO
    Originally Posted by KevinLevi View Post

    ...and none of your 8 things apply to me.
    Hey, about 6 of those 8 apply to me Wish I would've found this thread sooner, but I was too busy being a loner. Oh hell.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlanCarr
    Ah, and there's me strolling in here for some light relief... after dealing with a nightmare client...

    Don't get me started, no, don't even go close to that place!

    I mean who, what kind of... No Alan.. Noooo..



    *sigh*



    AC
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    This man is living his dream. Are you...?
    www.copywriter-ac.com

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  • Profile picture of the author alina75
    Hello,

    thanks for this post and i like the gnarly pontification.
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  • Profile picture of the author weheartcontent
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    4. They're Suckers for any new idea...

    Since most copywriters are salesman at heart...they usually will be the first to fall for any scam or scheme.

    6. They're easily led astray...

    Most copywriters can easily be led astray with someone pitching a new idea or selling a new course...how many have you bought?
    People who fall into this category can't consider themselves as copywriters, can they?
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    Someone has to sell. I'm sure that pisses a few people off.

    -Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author guitarizma
    Banned
    Is there something wrong in being an introvert and what does it have to do with copywriting anyway? Well, almost the entire list mentioned talks about human nature in general (almost all points). There are people with all these traits and still doing something other than copywriting, right?

    BTW, one has to be a coconut to be a "saleable" writer. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Wow, what a great post. Wherever can I subscribe for your newsletter and get more of this valuable wisdom?
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  • Profile picture of the author Affiliate Mom
    LOL all I can say is if you hire a $1 an article copywriter you get a dollars worth of article, if you buy a $5 article you get $5 worth of wisdom, experience and writing, if you want everything done the way you want it and want someone to spend hours researching and writing the perfect copy , you really have to be willing to pay for it.

    You get what you pay for.....

    On the flip side you should hear what I a lot of copywriters say about Internet Marketers, it is amusing to say the least.
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  • Profile picture of the author MBDirect
    Say, Max5ty, did you mean for us to take you seriously?

    Ever sat down at the keyboard over and over again to give blood?

    Didn't know we have to have BIG, BULGING, BODACIOUS egos to do what we do? Like, we have to feel real good about ourselves to enter "the zone" and stay there long enough to do what our clients can't?

    Didn't know we have to know a whole lot about our craft plus whatever topic/client/client requirement walks in the door?

    What do you care about the copywriter's personal traits, so long as h/she can put your sorry a** on the map and make you rich?

    Got the brains to know what should REALLY p you off about copywriters?

    Ever consider getting a life?

    Oh well. What's the use of being pessimistic about you? It wouldn't work anyway.

    The one on the left at

    MBDirect

    P.S. DougBargerKiller Copywriter to The Copy Nazi... my first ROTFLOL du jour!
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  • Profile picture of the author alfid
    All in that list are just clich├ęs and stereotypes historically associated with the writers.
    Undoubtedly, a topic created to provoke the writers. It has achieved its goal.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgrink
    I am an INFJ.
    I just found this forum yesterday.
    I must be in the right place.
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    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Well, that settles it. No further need for me to explore the realm of copywriting to determine if I have the needed skill set to pursue it as a means to make an income as I do not meet your criteria. Specifically this one:

      They're all knowing...

      Most copywriters think their idea of doing things is the right way.
      I have been wrong. Once. And that is when I thought I was wrong.
      Signature
      One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothing can beat teamwork.

      - Seldom Seen Smith
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