What is a realistic target for conversions

19 replies
Hey guys,

I was just wondering what people think is a realisteic target for conversions of an ebook.

Would conversions differ if your traffic is sent to you by affiliates or if you get free traffic from google relevant to your sites topic.

I have heard many say that one percent is the norm now, though you hear of people saying there copy will get you three percent, is that realistic.

What are your conversion goals when writing your copy?

Thanks in advance for any feedback, I think its an important question as when do you sit abck and think, I cant get better than what I have?

kind regards
#conversions #realistic #target
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I've had a product that gave me above 15% conversion from
    traffic exchange traffic but that is the exception and not the
    rule. If you have 2-3% conversion for a sub-$50 ebook then
    you are doing well. This doen't mean that you should settle
    at that point but sometimes it's better to start working on
    a new product rather than try to squeeze water out of stone.

    If your traffic is VERY targeted and warm (your list or that
    of your affiliates) then you can get better numbers.

    Above conversion levels is your PROFIT margin. Once you
    are making a decent profit then conversion becomes
    secondary.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author marc643
      Hey Ray,

      Thanks for your input, so really between 2-3% should really be the target, and 1% would then be below average and a lot can be improved.

      Thanks, intersting, and yes you are right you need to know when is time to move on to the next project.
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    • Profile picture of the author crumpet
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      I've had a product that gave me above 15% conversion from
      traffic exchange traffic but that is the exception and not the
      rule. If you have 2-3% conversion for a sub-$50 ebook then
      you are doing well. This doen't mean that you should settle
      at that point but sometimes it's better to start working on
      a new product rather than try to squeeze water out of stone.

      If your traffic is VERY targeted and warm (your list or that
      of your affiliates) then you can get better numbers.

      Above conversion levels is your PROFIT margin. Once you
      are making a decent profit then conversion becomes
      secondary.

      -Ray Edwards

      Good info right here!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
    Originally Posted by sebastian643 View Post

    Would conversions differ if your traffic is sent to you by affiliates or if you get free traffic from google relevant to your sites topic.
    Yes - typically affiliate or JV traffic should convert higher than SEO or paid traffic.

    I have heard many say that one percent is the norm now, though you hear of people saying there copy will get you three percent, is that realistic.
    It depends on what you're selling and who you're selling to. Conversion is 40% traffic, 40% offer, and only 20% copy. The greatest copy in the world will bomb if no-one wants what it's selling.

    What are your conversion goals when writing your copy?
    For front-end pieces I'm usually looking for a positive ROI for the client.

    Thanks in advance for any feedback, I think its an important question as when do you sit back and think, I cant get better than what I have?
    When the cost of improving your conversion is greater than the cost of moving on to another project.

    Once you've tested the main elements - headline, offer, etc - then each test will typically give less and less improvement. And at some point it's not going to be worth your time to continue. You'd be wiser to invest the time into creating back-end offers, improving your sales funnel as a whole, building relationships with potential partners, etc.
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    Andrew Gould

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    • Profile picture of the author marc643
      Hey Andrew,

      Thanks for the detailed answers. I don't here it spoken about much, but is of great importance.
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Acceptable conversion rates are determined based upon 4 things:

        1. Lead Acquisition Costs

        2. Cost of fulfillment

        3. Lifetime Value of a Customer (What else can we sell the customer?)

        4. How much profit you want.

        - Rick Duris
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        • Profile picture of the author marc643
          Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

          Acceptable conversion rates are determined based upon 4 things:

          1. Lead Acquisition Costs

          2. Cost of fulfillment

          3. Lifetime Value of a Customer (What else can we sell the customer?)

          4. How much profit you want.

          - Rick Duris
          Hey Rick thanks for your input!

          What if you are getting your traffic via seo, you have a certain outlay yes but costs can be low.

          As to number 4, is the answer not as much as possible for everyone?

          I always thought that regardless of costs of outlay etc with a good product an interested market then its down to you to have a decent design and a great sales page to influence your conversion rates.

          So with that said I presumed or assumed that people would have a set conversion percentage goal.
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          • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
            What if you are getting your traffic via seo, you have a certain outlay yes but costs can be low.

            As you get older, you'll develop a keen appreciation for the value of your time.

            You may think you have a low cost now because you're doing it yourself.

            But let me ask you, if you were to charge someone else, how much would your time and SEO expertise be worth?


            As to number 4, is the answer not as much as possible for everyone?

            I always thought that regardless of costs of outlay etc with a good product an interested market then its down to you to have a decent design and a great sales page to influence your conversion rates.

            What, for instance, does the competition play into your pricing?

            Determining price points and margins is not easy or simple. That's why price points are tested a lot.

            There are other factors as well. This is just a prime example.


            - Rick Duris
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            • Profile picture of the author marc643
              Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

              As you get older, you'll develop a keen appreciation for the value of your time.

              You may think you have a low cost now because you're doing it yourself.

              But let me ask you, if you were to charge someone else, how much would your time and SEO expertise be worth?
              haha this is a very good point!

              Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post


              What, for instance, does the competition play into your pricing?

              Determining price points and margins is not easy or simple. That's why price points are tested a lot.

              There are other factors as well. This is just a prime example.


              - Rick Duris
              Actually yes I think this is an extremely important point greatly overlooked!

              But one thing I think is that regardless what my time is worth, what price i choose etc my conversions will be what they are.

              If i get the sales copy wrong/ design / price it will not convert. But done correctly it should convert at a level. All things are to be tested to help increase this.

              I'm just seeing what % people feel is a reasonable conversion on a product. But I realise this is a kind of unanswerable question.

              With regard to pricing do you think if you are cheaper than your competition it can harm conversions, suppose another unanswerable question lol. Testing will tell all.

              Thanks Rick and kind regards
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          • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
            I'm not Rick but I'll give my thoughts on these too.

            Originally Posted by sebastian643 View Post

            What if you are getting your traffic via seo, you have a certain outlay yes but costs can be low.
            Regardless of traffic source, you still want to know how much each customer is costing you to help you make accurate decisions going forward. (If you're doing the SEO yourself - how much is your time worth?)

            As to number 4, is the answer not as much as possible for everyone?
            You need to know your numbers, specifically life-time value, because for front-end pieces you're usually looking to get as many customers as possible rather than the most profit.

            I always thought that regardless of costs of outlay etc with a good product an interested market then its down to you to have a decent design and a great sales page to influence your conversion rates.
            A quality sales page always helps, but it's just one factor in marketing.

            So with that said I presumed or assumed that people would have a set conversion percentage goal.
            Most will have an idea, but it varies from one project to another, from various pieces within that project, and according to the traffic source.

            To give a general example - for a WSO you'd be looking to aim for:

            Forum traffic - 10%
            Product creator's list - 15-20%
            Product creator's "sign up if you're interested in my upcoming WSO" list - 30%
            Affiliate list - 10-20%

            Upsell/OTO - 30%

            And even then, they can vary depending on exactly what the price and offer is, the client's reputation, etc. I certainly wouldn't guarantee them.

            If you want a target conversion rate to aim for, then send your traffic to your competitors to see what they're getting and aim around there.
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            Andrew Gould

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            • Profile picture of the author marc643
              Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

              I'm not Rick but I'll give my thoughts on these too.
              Actually Andrew ive never read a post from you that hasn't been valuable so always happy to hear your input.

              Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

              You need to know your numbers, specifically life-time value, because for front-end pieces you're usually looking to get as many customers as possible rather than the most profit.
              Actually this is something I hadn't thought of, and very right, which sets my earlier answer straight.


              Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

              To give a general example - for a WSO you'd be looking to aim for:

              Forum traffic - 10%
              Product creator's list - 15-20%
              Product creator's "sign up if you're interested in my upcoming WSO" list - 30%
              Affiliate list - 10-20%

              Upsell/OTO - 30%

              And even then, they can vary depending on exactly what the price and offer is, the client's reputation, etc. I certainly wouldn't guarantee them.
              Any general thoughts for a product not on the forum lol. Im fishing.
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              • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
                Originally Posted by sebastian643 View Post

                Any general thoughts for a product not on the forum lol. Im fishing.
                For general conversion statistics have a look at Fireclick:

                Fireclick Index

                They show that for the "Outdoor and Sports" segment the average is 1%-2%.

                So, depending on where you are now, my target would be 2%.

                But if you plateaued anywhere above 1% it wouldn't be disastrous. I'd move on, focus on other aspects of my business, and come back when I had a deeper understanding of the market and my prospects.

                And if you're sending traffic directly to your sales page, consider sending them to a squeeze page first and then, through a sequence of emails and free content, build a relationship - demonstrating that you can help them, instead of immediately pitching for a sale.

                It's far easier to make a sale when you're a trusted expert rather than just a salesman.
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                Andrew Gould

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                • Profile picture of the author marc643
                  Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

                  For general conversion statistics have a look at Fireclick:

                  Fireclick Index

                  They show that for the "Outdoor and Sports" segment the average is 1%-2%.

                  So, depending on where you are now, my target would be 2%.

                  But if you plateaued anywhere above 1% it wouldn't be disastrous. I'd move on, focus on other aspects of my business, and come back when I had a deeper understanding of the market and my prospects.

                  And if you're sending traffic directly to your sales page, consider sending them to a squeeze page first and then, through a sequence of emails and free content, build a relationship - demonstrating that you can help them, instead of immediately pitching for a sale.

                  It's far easier to make a sale when you're a trusted expert rather than just a salesman.
                  Hey Andrew thanks a lot much appreciated!
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  • Profile picture of the author David Raybould
    What is a realistic target for the
    length of a piece of string?

    I'm sorry, I know that doesn't sound
    helpful, but the truth is, your conversion
    percentage doesn't really matter...

    ... what matters is how much money
    your page generates.

    Conversions are a useful way to measure
    stuff, but don't get fixated on a certain
    number or whatever.

    Test, and track, and do all that you can
    to ensure you're converting traffic into
    cash as efficiently as possible - but don't
    forget the cash is the main objective.

    Also, bear in mind that EVERYTHING in the
    sales process will affect conversions. Where
    the traffic comes from, your price, what time
    of day it is, whether there's a follow up, and
    anything else you can imagine too.

    Even the most persuasive copy ever written
    can falter when there are other issues with
    the sales process.

    Hope that's useful.

    -David Raybould
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    Killer Emails. Cash-spewing VSLs. Turbocharged Landing Pages.

    Whatever you need, my high converting copy puts more money in your pocket. PM for details. 10 years experience and 9 figure revenues.
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  • It depends on many factors. Yes, the source of traffic and how pre-sold traffic is makes a big difference. 1-2% is pretty standard, but rare sales letters will convert 7% and upwards. Mind you that is quite rare, and typically those are landing pages for people who have already gone through an email autoresponder course or something similar and are thoroughly pre-sold.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennie Heckel
    Hi Sebastian,

    One of the factors that you need to consider that is an EASY way to beef up conversions is to boost the offer. Boosting the offer can many times double or triple conversions with the same copy.

    If I have a client with an ebook, I add an audio file of the book to add value and increase the usefulness of the offer. Maybe do a video for how to use the product ideas inside the ebook.

    Then I go to my high end PLR Membership and boost the offer even more with an extra set of audios, videos, or another ebook or two to complement and expand upon the original offer. Adding this extra value makes for a much easier sale too!

    Sometimes I create a custom workbook to match the ebook which does well. You would want the ebook and workbook work together to make a set. This works gangbusters to help boost conversions in the self-help niches.

    The beauty of this is, to create a matching workbook for your ebook only takes an hour or two to make an outline for the ebook chapters, summarize the chapters for each section, then add a bunch of lines under each summarized chapter. Buyers love the fact they can print out the workbook to use with the ebook.

    You want to think more like a program or course idea for the products you select. The bonus products to be complimentary and work well together with the main product.

    And don't forget to redo the PLR graphics so that the entire package looks like a rebranded course or package. (I don't like to see lists of ebooks on a sales letter page with different styles of graphics as that screams "cheap PLR" and you want to stay away from that look.) The small cost of having new graphics created for PLR products and displayed in a nice group image is worth the boost in conversions.

    This is a simple way to ramp up conversions on a single ebook. I don't call ebooks by the name "ebook" when I write copy. Instead it is always a downloadable book or course guide, blueprint, step-by-step guide etc, or similar name that indicates the value inside the book.
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    • Profile picture of the author marc643
      Originally Posted by Jennie Heckel View Post

      Hi Sebastian,

      One of the factors that you need to consider that is an EASY way to beef up conversions is to boost the offer. Boosting the offer can many times double or triple conversions with the same copy.
      Hey Jennie,

      Great point, and thanks, increase the value of what the customer is getting!
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  • Profile picture of the author Carl Juneau
    I usually get:

    1% from cold ppc traffic.
    5% from JV traffic.
    8% from my house list.

    I sell a mid-range ticket product.

    Carl
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Start with 1%, then optimize and add reviews from there. If you get it up to 2 or 3% from cold traffic, you've pretty much got an ATM machine.

    BTW, the cat who mentioned profit margins is dead on. Conversions alone aren't the key to big profits. Repeat business is. Once you're getting conversions at 2%, I suggest directing most of your attention on repeat business.
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