Sounds good on paper.

But in reality, this is a waste of time and money for all but the most deep pocketed entrepreneurs.

For proof, look at how much money and effort Apple threw at "evangelizing" (i.e. changing the beliefs of) the marketplace.

Eugene Schwartz nails the preferred strategy in Breakthrough Advertising:




- Rick Duris

PS: You can ignore my scribbles.

I think there's a good and a bad way to look at this topic.

Let's take the starving crowd. If your timing is right, you can influence people who know only that they are hungry to go for Italian rather than Chinese. Or go with a group instead of alone.

Once the decision of where to go is reached, it becomes much harder to influence. Timing beats some kind of Jedi mind trick.

Want to be an expert copywriter? Understand the decision stream concept. What decisons "upstream" determine the range of likely alternatives "downstream." This shows you where your target is, and what your timing has to be for any particular product or service.

So, when's a person going to buy a lot of stuff, and "change"? Right after a big move to a new house that puts them out of easy access to doctors, schools, the restaurants they'd normally go to, and very often the church they used to attend.

What to go from so-so to genius? Hit them at the Welcome Wagon stage where the buyer has 1) Already established what they will buy. 3) Hasn't established who they will buy from yet.

You are not going to get them to switch religions. You can get them into a different church of the same faith.

Decision streams. Timing. I don't have to work that hard if I just take a look at people who have or are about to move more than twenty miles and are up for grabs. Relocations. New jobs. Etc.

I know they're starving for an Itallian place. I just have to present my client's Italian place.

Your thinking seems like a stretch...

Unless you're talking about changing their mind that all the products in your niche are junk...I maybe can see your logic...

If you're trying to change their mind that there isn't a solution to their problem...could work, with some work.

Both the above examples are usually considered a waste of time when deciding on a product to offer.

To try and change minds about something can be a long tedious process...usually requires more than one source of advertising...and usually as Rick says requires deep pockets in order to flood the ad sources with info.

Most want a solution to something...in my opinion a copywriter's job is to simply expose the solution with a can't-say-no offer.

Scientific Advertising by the way is one of the best books anyone can read on advertising.

It's in the public domain - and free to acquire.

If you haven't read it a few times yet, what are you waiting on?

A quick google search found this link...

Scientific Advertising

Here's Chrysler's recent attempt at evangelizing their market:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
The copy is GREAT, the ad INSPIRING, but does Clint or Chrysler make you want to trade your ride in for one of their's?

- Rick Duris

It sounds to me like Reflection Marketing, Rick, and Max5ty are all talking about the same thing, but in different terms.


To quote Claude Hopkins, which also directly complements what Eugene Schwartz said in Rick's posting:


"Human nature is perpetual. In most respects it is the same today as in the time of Caesar. So the principles of psychology are fixed and enduring. You will never need to unlearn what you learn about them."


If I understand his viewpoint correctly, RM was talking about changing beliefs by having the prospect focus on the product benefits, and visualize what they could do for him if he were to take action and purchase the product. In other words, the prospect is convincing himself.


RM didn't specify HOW he would get the prospect to consider the benefits. Presumably the appeals would be based on inherent psychological and emotional hooks, in the same way that Schwartz was talking about.


As for building a cult-like following, I'd agree with RM that most people do naturally gravitate towards being in a group of like-minded individuals. Again, this is appealing to ancient inherent human instincts based on millions of years of evolution.


Adding additional feelings (pride, patriotism, changing the world by saving the trees, secrets of the Masons, whatever) just reinforce that feeling of belonging, being important in some way, or knowing some secret that nobody else does.

A cult can certainly be built, as RM says, often by having a charismatic leader, insider secrets (such as In and Out Burger's secret menu), or some other process that engages those ancient subsconscious triggers.


Max5ty is right in that trying to "make" people change their mind is a difficult job - brainwashing always is. But, getting people to change their own minds by presenting better alternatives that satisfy needs or wants, or improve their well-being over what they have now - that's much easier.


In a roundabout way, it seems like that's what everyone is trying to say here.

This interesting post by Nick Usborne discusses the futility of trying to change people's deeply held beliefs by directly challenging them, but demonstrates how recognizing and working with those same beliefs in copywriting (by persuading people to do things they are already inclined to do) can be effective. It seems to fit in with the discussion here.

(You'll have to edit the URL, sorry.)

www dot nickusborne dot com/2012/01/copywriters-never-try-to-change-your-prospects-minds/

Mark, Next time you see a marketing campaign worth admiring. One that has the attributes, qualities and characteristics you express in your post, meaning...

1. Changes prospects' beliefs, thinking, minds or perception IN ORDER TO sell their product

2. Gets in their face

3. Asks them to "rise up to the opportunities speckled all over the SOLUTION they're offering"

4. Transparent (I assume you mean "honest")

5. Uses elements found in viral marketing (of course, assuming they're not using rent-a-crowd or astroturfing strategies, which are not honest)

6. Generates "tremendous" financial results

7. Can be launched within a rather short period of time and does not require deep pockets.

... I would sincerely be interested in a "heads up". I am not being patronizing. The example does not have to have all elements. But it does have to change prospects' beliefs, thinking, minds or perceptions--which is what your assertion is essentially about.

I have never seen such an animal, especially one that was successful.

- Rick Duris

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I'm sitting here at Les Schwab getting the alignment done on my car and I thought of another angle in the whole "changing people's minds" debate here.

...This teenage girl walks into the shop with her iPod, Converse shoes, Element wear sweater, Volcom pants, etc. and I acknowledged, "Wow pop culture REALLY influences how people dress!"

Kid's minds are being constantly influenced by the fads - you know, what everyone else is doing.

Marketing not only targets the weak-minded people who WANT to feel a part of something (like a look or clothing trend), but it obviously creates the whole idea/ideal in the first place...

...Just a thought.

(UPDATE ;-)

Ask yourself:

What is a belief?

It's just a repetitive thought we accept as truth.

Now, when someone beliefs are challenged, what's really happening?

Their thoughts are being "interrupted" and replaced with another idea or concept.

It's that process of interrupting one's thoughts that can change them - whether it's for the short term (as in most cases) or the long-term, when something truly resonates.

Oh, and one more response to CLOVE:

Check out all the copywriting books recommended in the sticky section of the C.W. forum...

...All of those books CHANGED people's minds in this very forum by illuminating possibilities that they weren't aware of beforehand -thus greatly influencing HOW they proceeded in life.

The power of CHANGING PEOPLE'S MINDS is ALL OVER the place. Just open your eyes and ACKNOWLEDGE how you're REALLY affected by copy, commercials, movies, books, etc...

Mark

If only things were that simple, although I understand what you are saying.

Essentially you are referring to using cognitive dissonance to create changes in existing beliefs, or alternatively, introducing new knowledge to create new beliefs based on that new knowledge (i.e., learning).

Cognitive dissonance has some very interesting applications in education, therapy, behavior modification, and marketing. It's getting into some deep psychological waters. It can also have some adverse unintended consequences (aversion to a product instead of an affinity, for example), so would need to be used carefully.

Wikipedia (and yes, I know it's not always accurate) has an interesting basic overview of it at en.dot wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance .

They do that, but in most cases, it's simply learning. When we learn new things, we can certainly make new associations, change the way we do things, get new ideas, and change the way we think about things. But i would not consider that to be changing my beliefs, or even creating cognitive dissonance, for the most part. It's simply learning new things, reconciling them, and going forward with that new information.

However, if that new information directly challenges what someone strongly believes to be true (a deep belief), then a dissonance is created, and it will need to be resolved either by rejection of, acceptance of, or reconcilation of the new information and the existing belief to create a new hybrid belief.

That subconsious mechanism that forces humans to do that is the interesting one, IMO.

It IS possible to influence the way people think to a certain extent but not always completely. You CAN present them with new possibilities that they never knew existed before.

Politicians. The media does it every day.

Copywriters also try to influence people's choices and decisions by presenting products and solutions in newer, more exciting ways. Ok, they are not always 100% successful but a 3-10% conversion rate is all that's needed to be considered a good conversion, right?

If those possibilities are in line with what they were already seeking then you are much more likely to be successful.

If you provide social proof for e.g. many other people have benefitted from your solution, that what you are claiming has been done before successfully with statistics. If you provide risk free guarantees like a 30 day money back period etc. then people are much more likely to believe the possibilities that you present to them and more likely to want to try it out.

Ultimately the decision rests with the prospect.

You're talking about neurological networks...

...And yes, you can ABSOLUTELY reorganize the biological functions of the brain through simple awareness' (e.g. through copy.)

That being said...

You can't threaten a person's identity or beliefs because you'll just trigger their need to fight for the way they think (sympathetic/parasympathetic response)... rather than positively affect or change their thought process.

That's why it's always so important to focus on POSSIBILITIES in sales copy.

Possibilities stimulate all those neuropeptides to secrete into the blood stream - giving the prospect a FLOOD of NEW sensations to affect their buying decisions.

In that brief period of time, you're instigating new neurological networks to fire together - no matter how ever-so-brief this process is...

...You know, before the old, repetitive neurons return to their regularly scheduled synapse programming.

At the end of the day, our thoughts and beliefs (and identity) are just chemicals.

Putting a prospect in front of NEW POSSIBILITIES can ABSOLUTELY stimulate new combinations of peptides...

...Just like alcohol, drugs and even love can achieve in the context of a person's biochemical disposition.

Mark

You are seriously swimming upstream on this one, Reflection Marketing.

You have to work with the market where it is. Eugene Schwartz covers this matter thoroughly in Breakthrough Advertising.

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