According to experts... women make much better copywriters than men

by Mark Andrews Banned
44 replies
Experts? Mark grins.

According to experts... women make far better copywriters than men.

It's true. An undeniable fact. Women...

...are simply more attuned to writing emotionally and therefore connecting more favorably to the target audience. In fact... their counterparts pale into insignificance when competing directly against the fairer sex when it comes to copywriting.

What do you think?

Do you think this is a fair comment? Or not?

What are the reasons behind you arriving at your conclusion?

Best,


Mark Andrews
#copywriters #copywriters men vs women #copywriters women vs men #experts #make #men #men vs women copywriting #women #women copywriters
  • Profile picture of the author ERPLeadsWriter
    Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

    Experts? Mark grins.

    According to experts... women make far better copywriters than men.

    It's true. An undeniable fact. Women...

    ...are simply more attuned to writing emotionally and therefore connecting more favorably to the target audience. In fact... their counterparts pale into insignificance when competing directly against the fairer sex when it comes to copywriting.

    What do you think?

    Do you think this is a fair comment? Or not?

    What are the reasons behind you arriving at your conclusion?
    I would respectfully disagree. I don't even believe emotions are as big an advantage. Emotional can imply a lot of things. That doesn't mean being emotional automatically makes you a good writer. Look at Stephanie Meyer. She's quite emotional in her writing. Excessive even. She sells sure but is her writing top quality when compared to, let's say, Stephen King, Jules Verne, or J.R.R. Tolkien?

    Granted the latter aren't copywriters either but the point remains emotional does not automatically guarantee quality.
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by ERPLeadsWriter View Post

      Granted the latter aren't copywriters either but the point remains emotional does not automatically guarantee quality.
      Let's look at the language here. OP says "writing emotionally" which is a form or style of writing. Your language implies that women who are emotional aren't necessarily greater writers. I see a difference in definitions going on here.

      What I interpreted the original post to mean was that most women can empathize with the pain of the target audience, which is a great strength. However, I don't think this is something that is necessarily limited to women. I've met a great number of men who are able to put themselves into another's shoes so to speak.

      I do see the emotional connection to the copy as an advantage, whether it comes from a male writer or a female writer. I'm not going to get into male versus female because frankly it's counterproductive (not to mention I'm sorely outnumbered on this forum gender-wise ). Emotions are key, I think. Connections are important. As we get more and more invested in our computers and being connected to everyone from our couches, that personal touch starts to count more.
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      • Profile picture of the author ERPLeadsWriter
        Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

        Let's look at the language here. OP says "writing emotionally" which is a form or style of writing. Your language implies that women who are emotional aren't necessarily greater writers. I see a difference in definitions going on here.


        Well yes, it can be an issue with semantics. However, I'm like you in that I don't need to be female to be able to emotionally empathize with the target audience.

        Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

        What I interpreted the original post to mean was that most women can empathize with the pain of the target audience, which is a great strength. However, I don't think this is something that is necessarily limited to women. I've met a great number of men who are able to put themselves into another's shoes so to speak.
        There is still the issue of being emotional itself and how it translates into writing capacity be it for copy writing or creative writing. What I meant with my example is that a person being emotional doesn't automatically translate into good writing capacity.
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        • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
          I don't necessarily agree women make better copywriters than men...unless a particular market calls for it - off the top of my head would be parenting and beauty - predominantly female markets.

          Interesting thread though - my coach taught me to 'switch heads' when writing copy and create an avatar of the opposite sex when writing copy unless it was for a gender specific product.

          This technique works great - and certainly the top copywriters out there use this technique to produce great copy which connects with all the right emotions - hence explaining why some of the A list men have written copy VERY successfully for the female market.

          I know that clients have commented on my ability to really connect with the emotional pain of the reader - I don't think it's because I'm a woman, but more because I'm a naturally emotional person.

          You can be male, very emotional and churn out super-charged emotionally compelling copy. It all comes down to how well you connect with the audience, how well you try and empathize with their pain and then weaving this in a clear, concise and compelling way throughout your copy.

          In general, women are seen as more kinaesthetic that men, but I suspect this is more to do with the nurturing side we women innately have as mothers and future mothers to be.

          Throughout history, men were generally seen as physically stronger and more head-strong so they could protect their families whereas women were always perceived as being more emotional and with a more fragile state of mind compared to men.

          Not much has changed in today's world (with men being the family protectors etc), although equal rights and better education and possibilities for women have ensured we are just as good (if not better) than men in all areas of life, without being as fragile as we once were...

          I totally understand why this argument might come up, but agree here with Marcia - there is no real shred of evidence from any authority on the subject.

          Mark - thanks for posting this up!
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  • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
    Women are just as unconsciously solipsistic as men. It's the rare individual, male or female, who can step into the shoes of another person and see the world through their eyes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Grain
      It's proven, but I wouldn't use gender as a
      discrimination. Let me explain what a
      neurosurgeon told me a year and a half ago...

      If you develop the correct faculties and have
      practice it... The parts responsible in your
      brain naturally become more developed.

      It's neuroplasticity and genetics.

      All humans started off as a pure female in the
      womb.

      It's just that for males, the Y chromosomes
      are also present. Male hormones are also
      synthesized - the extent of it can be
      judged by the length of your 2nd and 4th
      digits of a male's finger.

      ... That testosterone disrupts the male's
      perception of information, narrowing the
      spectrum of emotions we can perceive.

      The females continue to be influenced by
      huge amounts of female hormone... That's
      why they don't grow our... organs.

      Apart from that, they start to specialize
      their Insular Cortex, which is responsible
      for linking external and internal experiences.

      (I heard something about mirror neurons as
      well, but I can't remember what he said
      about it - so I'm going to skip that platter.)

      Strangely, I thought females would have
      a more developed Insular cortex than males.

      But that isn't so.

      Males have a more developed insular cortex.
      That creates the fight-or-flight response.

      Yup, it's connected to the amygdale.

      As such, we're more limited to lesser
      emotions because we can't classify them
      in narrow ranges. We normally throw
      them into...

      1) Shame / Horror
      2) Aggression / Competitiveness /
      Determination

      Here's a science press release:
      Men and women may respond differently to danger

      Originally Posted by ScienceDaily

      While viewing the negative images, women
      showed decidedly stronger and more extensive
      activation in the left thalamus, which relays
      sensory information to and from the cerebral
      cortex, including the pain and pleasure centers.

      Men exhibited more activation in the left insula,
      which gauges the physiological state of the
      entire body and then generates subjective
      feelings that can bring about actions. Information
      from the insula is relayed to other brain structures
      involved in decision making.

      Dr. Urbanik believes these differences indicate
      that women may analyze positive stimuli in a
      broader social context and associate the positive
      images with a particular memory. Viewing a
      picture of a smiling toddler might evoke memories
      of a woman's own child at this age. Conversely,
      male responses are more perceptual.
      Well, I guess females are able to "open", build
      rapport and all, but I believe males have
      a higher capability to "close a sale" instead.

      Some women are good at maths.
      Some males are good at social situations.

      It really depends on your experience
      ultimately, because copywriting is almost
      always built from results instead.

      I'll go for "beating the control" instead. (:
      Less mind-boggling.

      Kind Regards,
      Grain.
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      Kind Regards,
      Grain.

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      • Chaps, I hate to be the one to tell you this.

        It's not just copywriting that women are better at.

        It's everything else as well.

        Just ask your wife or girlfriend.

        She'll confirm it.


        Steve
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        • Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter View Post

          Chaps, I hate to be the one to tell you this.

          It's not just copywriting that women are better at.

          It's everything else as well.

          Just ask your wife or girlfriend.

          She'll confirm it.


          Steve


          True that.
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      • Profile picture of the author ShaneGorry
        "According to experts... women make much better copywriters than men"

        Citation needed.

        And no, please don't point to post four. While it certainly tells us something of the nature of the sexes it proves nothing about copyrighting and who is "better".

        And while where at it I have to wonder if the experts are a bunch of scientists or a bunch of product owners.

        Personally though I'm not discriminatory. I'll go with the individual who has a proven record of delivering conversions no matter their gender.
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        • Profile picture of the author Grain
          Originally Posted by ShaneGorry View Post

          "According to experts... women make much better copywriters than men"

          Citation needed.

          And no, please don't point to post four. While it certainly tells us something of the nature of the sexes it proves nothing about copyrighting and who is "better".

          And while where at it I have to wonder if the experts are a bunch of scientists or a bunch of product owners.

          Personally though I'm not discriminatory. I'll go with the individual who has a proven record of delivering conversions no matter their gender.
          Is there a paper released for that? That
          would be really interesting.

          Otherwise...

          You were thinking in black-and-white. The
          men or the women.

          If you think about it now...

          There can be some men who are better
          than other men. And there can be women
          who are better than other women.

          There were stunt female drivers who
          could drive better than an average
          female. That had been true years ago,
          and now...

          If you ponder over it a little more again,

          ..the stronger man may be better than the
          weaker woman.
          AND the stronger woman may be better
          than the weaker man.

          There were female mathematicians who
          could do calculus faster than male
          mathematicians.

          And now, you may realize there's a common
          understanding here...

          So many things are involved. It's like a
          rainbow. There are so many in-betweens,
          but we choose 7 main colours.

          You probably understood that point easily
          because it's quite logical.

          We used to have different starting points.

          Females may have a better capability.

          But that doesn't matter if a female does not
          develop her copywriting skills properly.

          I think we have an agreement.

          Proven records speak the best.

          Kind Regards,
          Grain.
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          Kind Regards,
          Grain.

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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

      Women are just as unconsciously solipsistic as men. It's the rare individual, male or female, who can step into the shoes of another person and see the world through their eyes.
      Had to dust off my freakin' dictionary.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissLizzie
    None of WF's female copywriters have bitten with your thread yet, Mark, and I'd be really interested to see what they say.

    But in their absence, here's what I think...

    Women are far more prolific consumers than men, both online and on the high street. Indeed, if you look at the figures, you'll find that we're responsible for about 85% of consumer spending in the US!

    Not only that, women tend to be responsible for the household budgets - they do the grocery shopping, buy toys for the kids... they'll even have a say on what car the family should get, or house they should buy.

    So, in my opinion... to succeed at copywriting, you really need to succeed at selling to women.

    Now, personally, I think it's easier for women to write copy that's aimed other women. In many cases, we are the 'target audience' and that means we can use our own experiences and emotions in the copy.

    Indeed, I know I'd struggle to write copy for a product on how to cure baldness, or how to sleep with any girl I wanted.

    Quite simply, it's harder for me to get into the buyer's mindset.

    That's not to say it can't be done, of course... it just means you'll have to do a lot more research on the niche and the audience. That takes time and a willingness to invest in your skills and career as a copywriter.

    Sadly, I think too many people tend to skimp on their research... and that's probably their real downfall, as opposed to their gender.

    Some much wiser people than me have written about this, and the links to their articles are below (not affiliate).

    Is Copywriting a Masculine Skill? | Michel Fortin on Copywriting, Marketing, Business, and Life
    Why James Chartrand Wears Women's Underpants | Copyblogger

    As you'll see from James Chartrand's blog, there's also an issue as to whether it's easier for men to be successful as copywriters than women.

    That's something I've been thinking about a lot recently as I'm about to start up my own copywriting business... there's a real possibility that I'll make my website gender neutral, or even adopt a male pseudonym. Her life experiences are very close to home for me and I'm keen that clients only judge me on my writing and my results.
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    • Lizzie,

      There are many top notch woman copywriters.

      And it's easy to create a fabulous USP as a woman - as you said in your post women are the main consumers.

      So no need to use a male pseudonym.

      It could be a bit awkward when you meet clients.

      So, just be you.

      We're all judged on our results - regardless of our gender.

      All the very best with your copywriting empire.


      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by MissLizzie View Post


      As you'll see from James Chartrand's blog, there's also an issue as to whether it's easier for men to be successful as copywriters than women.

      That's something I've been thinking about a lot recently as I'm about to start up my own copywriting business... there's a real possibility that I'll make my website gender neutral, or even adopt a male pseudonym. Her life experiences are very close to home for me and I'm keen that clients only judge me on my writing and my results.
      IMHO, it's only an issue if you let it become one.

      There are very successful female copywriters out there. Off the top of my head... Carline Anglade-Cole and Kim Krause-Schwalb (spelling?) are two profilic A-List copywriters. Collette Gilliam, Anne Moss, and Susan Landry are three female copywriters I know who also write great copy. Anita Ashland is a great autoresponder copywriter that I've referred several clients to over the years with great client feedback afterwards.

      If the copy is written correctly, then people can't tell if a male or female copywriter wrote it. It will sound like the spokesperson's voice instead. Two of my most recent hits were written for a female spokesperson's voice.

      In a couple different interviews, including one that she did with me for Market Your Copy, Carline tells the story of how she co-wrote a salesletter with Clayton Makepeace. The client was raving over each section of the piece..., saying things like "I love how Clayton wrote this" or "I love how Carline wrote this section"... except the client was giving to the wrong copywriter each time.

      It's not a gender issue IMHO on how good you can write copy. It's how dedicated you are to becoming a great copywriter.

      If there's one short-coming I've seen with many female copywriters is that they aren't agressive enough in marketing and promoting their business. I blame that more on personality and needing to step out of your comfort zone than gender. The best-known copywriters (regardless of gender) are active, agressive promotors of their copywriting business.

      I think the reason why there's more male copywriters is the nature of the work. It's very solitary work where you're working by yourself for hours, sometimes days by yourself. IMHO women tend to be more social people so unless they want to work from home or want a career they can do around being a stay-at-home mom, copywriting probably won't appeal to them.

      That last paragraph is just my theory and observations. It's not meant to be "label" all female copywriters.

      My 3 cents,

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author ShaneGorry
    Originally Posted by Grain View Post

    Is there a paper released for that? That
    would be really interesting.
    That sure would be interesting. After reading it we might know why "Mark grins in the OP. Or maybe he just grins because the phrase "According to experts..." makes him grin. It often has that effect on me to.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissLizzie
    Thanks Steve - really appreciate that.

    On reflection, I think that I'm probably making things stupidly difficult for myself, much like Susanna Hutchenson was discussing in the Michel Fortin article.

    It's like trying to squeeze into an old pair of size 8 jeans (when you're now a size 12)... which women never do by the way.

    But of course, women can't admit that we make things difficult for ourselves in the first place, because that would mean admitting we weren't right.

    And.... aren't we always right? :rolleyes:

    Hummm - yes, troubling and not necessarily logical.

    In other words... perfect female psychology.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Could you name some (or any) that are better than Bencivenga, Halbert or Makepeace? (just to name a few)

    In your case though...I'll agree with the reports
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    • Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Could you name some (or any) that are better than Bencivenga, Halbert or Makepeace? (just to name a few)

      In your case though...I'll agree with the reports


      Max if we're honest none of us are better than those (at least not all the time lol).


      Steve
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  • One of the best- Shirley Polykoff:
    Shirley Polykoff: Blonde Copywriters Have More Fun

    And Helen Lansdowne Resor (with her husband Stanley)
    made J. Walter Thompson into the giant agency that someday would
    hire Mal:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Lansdowne_Resor
    http://cskills.blogspot.com/2006/09/...964part-1.html
    http://adage.com/century/people014.html
    http://johngushue.typepad.com/blog/2...-to-touch.html
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    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissLizzie
    @Maxsty - Fair point, but to clarify...

    I'm just saying that in most cases, it's easier for women to research the target market for their copy. That doesn't mean they'll produce better copy or results for their clients.

    Sad... but true.

    I don't think anyone on here would dispute that people like Carlton, Makepeace and Halbert worked seriously hard to get good at copywriting.

    And in doing so, I'm guessing that they spend a lot of time getting into the mindset of a Soccer Mom from Mid-America.

    For me, that's what's made them great copywriters... not their gender.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      None of WF's female copywriters have bitten with your thread yet, Mark, and I'd be really interested to see what they say.
      Why not? Because a post that says "experts say" without saying who those experts are isn't worthy of serious comment.

      I've done quite a bit of copywriting research and have never run across any research with such a claim.

      And even if there were such studies, it wouldn't really be useful to any of us, whether customer or copywriter, because a generalization like that doesn't predict the skill of any individual.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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  • Profile picture of the author abugah
    Perhaps these two articles may help explain how the brain works and its relation to writing emotional copy.

    The Daily Nightly - Boys vs. girls

    Do girls' and boys' brains differ? - Social Skills | GreatSchools
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    You lot are too easy to get going.

    Just write the first slightly controversial
    thing to fly into my head, whack it up
    on the forum, sit back and watch what
    happens lol.

    Right on cue they all pile in.
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

      You lot are too easy to get going.

      Just write the first slightly controversial
      thing to fly into my head, whack it up
      on the forum, sit back and watch what
      happens lol.

      Right on cue they all pile in.
      Pop into your head, Mark?

      http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-than-men.html

      Anyone doing research would have discovered you were pulling our collective leg. The above post is from January, 2011.

      - Rick Duris

      PS: But to be fair, when you posted, I was just as curious as you to read the responses.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

        Pop into your head, Mark?

        http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-than-men.html

        Anyone doing research would have discovered you were pulling our collective leg. The above post is from January, 2011.

        - Rick Duris

        PS: But to be fair, when you posted, I was just as curious as you to read the responses.
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  • Profile picture of the author markpocock
    The only A List woman copywriter
    I can think of is Carline Anglade Cole.
    Any others?
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  • Profile picture of the author OliviaHoang
    It doesn't matter who's "better". It just matters how much money you make at the end of the day--at least, that's my view of sales writing :-)

    I agree that in general, women are more emotionally attuned to others.

    But a man who is well trained in copywriting and has done a lot of research can hit just as many hot buttons--so in the end, it doesn't matter if you are a woman or a man.

    It just matters that you are a COPYWRITER in the truest sense of the word.
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  • Profile picture of the author debml
    Obviously, there will be exceptions to every generalization. Women do have a tendency to experience more emotions than men do, which for copywriting can be a very useful skill.

    However, at the end of the day, selling skills are also an important component of effective copywriting, and, at the end of the day, I don't think anyone would claim that as a gender specific skill or trait.
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  • Profile picture of the author schttrj
    Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

    Experts? Mark grins.

    According to experts... women make far better copywriters than men.

    It's true. An undeniable fact. Women...

    ...are simply more attuned to writing emotionally and therefore connecting more favorably to the target audience. In fact... their counterparts pale into insignificance when competing directly against the fairer sex when it comes to copywriting.

    What do you think?

    Do you think this is a fair comment? Or not?

    What are the reasons behind you arriving at your conclusion?

    Best,


    Mark Andrews
    Even I will differ on this. We are not talking about being emotional here. We are talking about the level of EQ that a person possesses. Getting through the skin of the reader doesn't take just emotions, but an extraordinary logical control over those emotions to put forward the best cogent sequence of words, sentences and paragraphs.

    Well, now looking at it from a different perspective, I might expect women to be better copywriters than men (primarily, high testosterone men!). Why? Normally, we are more persisting and aggressive in our daily life, and that again comes to show in our copy as well. We just become more salesy! On the other hand, woman are more about creating relationships, so they might have the upper hand in that case.

    Anyone read 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus'?
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Fereday
    Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

    Experts? Mark grins.

    According to experts... women make far better copywriters than men.

    It's true. An undeniable fact. Women...

    ...are simply more attuned to writing emotionally and therefore connecting more favorably to the target audience. In fact... their counterparts pale into insignificance when competing directly against the fairer sex when it comes to copywriting.

    What do you think?

    Do you think this is a fair comment? Or not?

    What are the reasons behind you arriving at your conclusion?

    Best,


    Mark Andrews

    Who's to say it's not true... I have heard that women make better investors. At least for self study courses in futures trading... simply because they (women) follow the program, the formula, more precisely than their male counterparts do time and time again (noted by instructors).

    That said, I think copywriting success does include a blend of technique and emotional connection. Good copy sells, that's why it pays so well for it's creators, male or female - and isn't that what it's all about? Thanks for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
    My radical approach to questions of gender in copywriting:

    Look at the individual's copy, not the structure of their reproductive organs.
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  • Profile picture of the author RepATX
    I think women are GREAT assets to copywriting but so are men. Those who can understand the marketing psychology of men & women, they are better copywriters and can be considered aliens from another planet.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Women are better copywriters because they are more
    emotionally tuned? Then how are men persuading
    women to be their wives? Maybe women should be
    persuading men to be their husbands.

    Wait ... could it be that when men think they are
    doing the persuading it's the other way around?

    Now I'm confused.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryADensa
    Not that a woman cannot be a great copywriter... but why is that within the pantheon of great copywriters, from Hopkins and Caples to Ogilvy and Schwartz to Bencivienga and Makepeace there is no mention of a woman.

    That's not say there isn't room for Anglade-Cole, Kim Schwan and others.

    So aren't we being a bit chauvinistic by not recognizing all great copywriters, regardless of their sex?

    Neither man nor woman has a patent on exceptional writing, commercial or otherwise.

    Nature and nurture makes us what we are, not nature alone.
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    Barry A Densa - Freelance Marketing & Sales Copywriter - WritingWithPersonality.com

    Download a FREE copy of my new eBook, containing 21 of my most outrageous rants, when you visit my blog: Marketing Wit & Wisdom

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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by BarryADensa View Post

      Not that a woman cannot be a great copywriter... but why is that within the pantheon of great copywriters, from Hopkins and Caples to Ogilvy and Schwartz to Bencivienga and Makepeace there is no mention of a woman.

      That's not say there isn't room for Anglade-Cole, Kim Schwan and others.

      So aren't we being a bit chauvinistic by not recognizing all great copywriters, regardless of their sex?

      Neither man nor woman has a patent on exceptional writing, commercial or otherwise.

      Nature and nurture makes us what we are, not nature alone.
      It was a joke Barry, leg pulling, you know as in funny ha ha.

      Hence...

      Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

      You lot are too easy to get going.

      Just write the first slightly controversial
      thing to fly into my head, whack it up
      on the forum, sit back and watch what
      happens lol.

      Right on cue they all pile in.
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryADensa
    Uh ... Uh ... I guess I missed that part
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    Barry A Densa - Freelance Marketing & Sales Copywriter - WritingWithPersonality.com

    Download a FREE copy of my new eBook, containing 21 of my most outrageous rants, when you visit my blog: Marketing Wit & Wisdom

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  • Profile picture of the author AlanCarr
    Ah, irony.

    See, how I became a good salesman was by being taught how to control my emotions and keep the prospect pointing in the right direction (closing all exits etc)

    I also find the very idea of men not experiencing as much or such intense emotions to be blatantly false. There's a reason WHY boys are pushed so hard to hide their emotions and pretend they don't have any - it's because they DO.

    When it came to learn sales by print it seems even more a matter of distancing yourself and applying logical, proven systems, systems that have withstood statistical testing etc.

    But now I'm gonna get a little controversial...

    Which sex most often has to persuade the other?

    OK, perhaps that was too subtle. Which sex most often tries to get the other sex to say "Yes", and which sex has vastly more experience at saying "No" a lot?

    There's a clue there - but nothing actually stopping women being great copywriters too



    AC
    Signature

    This man is living his dream. Are you...?
    www.copywriter-ac.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AlanCarr View Post

      Ah, irony.

      See, how I became a good salesman was by being taught how to control my emotions and keep the prospect pointing in the right direction...

      AC
      Irony indeed. Read the rest of the thread Alan.

      Best,


      Mark Andrews
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