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My salesthread here converts bad - while my services work really great, pls leave your opinion

by nik0 Banned
27 replies
UPDATE: Changed my sales thread based on the fantastic suggestions from the warriors below. Please revisit my sale thread again to observe the latest changes


I'm having a salesthread at this forum for seo services and I got great rankings for my clients. 2 of them were so impressed that they switched to a monthly service based on a higher price then offered in my sales thread (ofcourse more links involved etc). These were the clients that went for the more expensive package btw so I'm not very suprised that they got great results

Anyway this is not a sales pitch, the problem is, after about 1200 times my salesthread is viewed I made about 10 sales and I think that's bad, maybe I'm wrong?

Would you want to take a look at it and tell me what's wrong with it? I changed it a dozen times btw and nothing seemed to have helped. The link is in my signature.

Thanks!
#bad #converts #great #leave #opinion #pls #salesthread #services #work
  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    Oh FFS you've got to be kidding me, you dont know why this doesnt convert?

    How about dense pages of text with massive block paragraphs for starters.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by maximus242 View Post

      Oh FFS you've got to be kidding me, you dont know why this doesnt convert?

      How about dense pages of text with massive block paragraphs for starters.
      I recently added the massive blocks of text to explain in more detail about my services. Thought that might help, guess not
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        I just moved the large blocks of text to the bottom of the thread saying: Our services described in more detail. I also changed the package descriptions to a short catchy description.

        Still looks crap, doesn't it, any more suggestions? EDIT: I just changed it to 1 colour tone, black with NavyBlue, before it was Red/Black and Blue/Orange in the second part.

        I'm more a technical guy, writing sales letters and such is really not my thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author ASCW
    It's not the color, or the look, or the graphics.

    It's that the copy is really bad, and that this is missing very important pieces that would actually make it a sales letter.

    I hate to be "that guy" and say hire a copywriter. But you'll either have to spend a lot of time (probably several months) reading books, and studying copywriting. Or hire some help - because this sales letter has a very long way to go, and I don't see how a critique or even several critiques can actually get your letter to pull. Because it's missing several very basic building blocks towards being a functional letter.

    If hiring a copywriter is out of the question I suggest you start here: The Gary Halbert Letter
    Signature

    Site being revamped.

    If you want help with copy stuff, pm me.

    Cool.

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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      I just wanted to ask you to sum up what a sales letter to consist of but then I followed your link and came up with this:


      1. Say something that gets attention.
      2. Tell them why they should be interested. (Expand on CSI)
      3. Tell them why they should believe what you are saying is true.
      4. Prove it is true.
      5. Itemize and describe all benefits.
      6. Tell them how to order.
      7. Tell them to order now.


      I go edit the sales letter now and if it's still crap afterwards I'll find someone to outsource it to.
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  • Profile picture of the author tas26
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tas26 View Post

      How much cost?
      Great suggestion, thanks, I just made the prices better recognizable.
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    You know the problem is you just dont know what you are doing, no offense but most copywriters study the subject for years.

    Most decent writers I know have read in excess of a hundred books on the subject and have been doing this for a long time. Even highering a mediocre copywriter would produce better results.

    The fact that your getting sales astounds me, I think if u actually got good copy youd make a lot of money.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by maximus242 View Post

      You know the problem is you just dont know what you are doing, no offense but most copywriters study the subject for years.

      Most decent writers I know have read in excess of a hundred books on the subject and have been doing this for a long time. Even highering a mediocre copywriter would produce better results.

      The fact that your getting sales astounds me, I think if u actually got good copy youd make a lot of money.
      Yeah well, I'm not a copywriter, I'm a site ranker, and that's what I'm good at and that's what I have practised for multiple years so not really surprised by the critiques Personally I liked my sales letter pretty much in every way as it wasn't so screamy you know, instead a well detailed report of what I do and such. I guess that also attracts certain type of clients, not everyone is pleased with those hyped-up sales letters that it kinda became now after the changes (perhaps cause of my wrong interpretation).

      I do agree I could make a lot more money then right now, I see people selling the most crappy services you've ever seen online with tools like senukex and worse, and they sell it for prices like $90,- (and they seem to sell even more then me) while you can buy almost the exact same at Fiverr for $5,-. That frustrates me pretty much cause I know my services are (compared to them) a 1000 times better.

      Anyway, it isn't all bad, I get a nice amount of clients through word-to-word advertising cause what I do works, but the margins are small and the competition is high, especially at these forums.
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    I am 100% against hype. If a letter contains hype thats a bad thing. The problem with your report is that its:

    1. Hard to read
    2. Not interesting
    3. Poorly written
    4. Lacking in structure
    5. Poor logical flow
    6. Lack of seamless transitions
    7. Lack of clarity
    8. Poor offer structure
    9. Poor subheads and subhead strategy

    and on and on and on

    Any sales letter you see that is hypey is a BAD sales letter, hype is very bad for sales, especially in IM

    I understand you provide a good service and are good at what you do. The problem is you havent done anything to learn to write a good advertisement and then you come in here expecting us to fix it for you.

    If you want us to help you, at least put in the effort to learn how to do it properly first.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by maximus242 View Post

      I am 100% against hype. If a letter contains hype thats a bad thing. The problem with your report is that its:

      1. Hard to read
      2. Not interesting
      3. Poorly written
      4. Lacking in structure
      5. Poor logical flow
      6. Lack of seamless transitions
      7. Lack of clarity
      8. Poor offer structure
      9. Poor subheads and subhead strategy

      and on and on and on

      Any sales letter you see that is hypey is a BAD sales letter, hype is very bad for sales, especially in IM

      I understand you provide a good service and are good at what you do. The problem is you havent done anything to learn to write a good advertisement and then you come in here expecting us to fix it for you.

      If you want us to help you, at least put in the effort to learn how to do it properly first.
      Honestly I didn't expect you would find it that awfull. I thought maybe a small change here or there would make a big change in conversion.

      If I knew it was that terrible I wouldn't have bothered you.
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    This is what I suggest, read some information online about sales letter structures. You should find point by point steps to go through for a simple sales letter. Then test that and see how it does.

    You letter is starting with no structure, it doesnt have the fundamental structure for the sale. You lack clarity. So google for sales letter structure or sales letter formula, find some free info, try that and see how it does

    This also makes it much easier for us to critique because we can tackle each part systematically
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by maximus242 View Post

      This is what I suggest, read some information online about sales letter structures. You should find point by point steps to go through for a simple sales letter. Then test that and see how it does.

      You letter is starting with no structure, it doesnt have the fundamental structure for the sale. You lack clarity. So google for sales letter structure or sales letter formula, find some free info, try that and see how it does

      This also makes it much easier for us to critique because we can tackle each part systematically
      Actually thats what I've been doing for the last 2 hours and the sales thread looks already completely different. You want to give one quick glance before I go bump it up again ?
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    "I'm a technical guy, not a slick copywriter. So all I can do is offer you my services and let my clients tell you how it worked out for them."

    Lead with that and follow with your testimonials and offer.

    Oh, and get rid of that skyrocket nonsense.
    haha, thanks will do so indeed, i had a previous salesletter somwhere sometime where I used something similiar indeed, time to reintroduce it indeed
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      I havent implented the above idea yet cause I rewrote it already and am testing it now, and just got a $100 order that was almost a month that I got that one ordered, last week only a few $25 orders.

      So thanks a lot for all the suggestions, I really didn't realize that my salesthread sucked that hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author ASCW
    Your sales letter still has a long way to go. And not even the sales letter parts, the grammar and spelling is bad. Easy to see it was written by a non-native English speaker.

    Also your changes have taken your sales letter from a 1/10 to maybe a 3/10. In my opinion.

    Probably the best thing about your sales letter, is your testimonials (which is very beneficial). Extra bonus points to you because you moved them further up your page.

    Originally Posted by n1co

    1. Say something that gets attention.
    2. Tell them why they should be interested. (Expand on CSI)
    3. Tell them why they should believe what you are saying is true.
    4. Prove it is true.
    5. Itemize and describe all benefits.
    6. Tell them how to order.
    7. Tell them to order now.
    How do you expect to do that? You can try but you won't be able to do it right (I looked at your updated page, and you have tried, but not succeeded).

    Also, since you said you read the link. Did you just ignore these parts?

    Originally Posted by Gary Halbert

    Here's how I'd do it: If you were my student, the first thing I'd ask you to do is give yourself a basic education in valid advertising principles. To begin with, I'd want you to read everything listed below:

    "Scientific Advertising"

    -by Claude Hopkins

    "The Robert Collier Letter Book"

    -by Robert Collier

    "Tested Advertising Methods"

    -by John Caples
    "How To Write A Good Advertisement"
    -by Vic Schwab

    "The Gary Halbert Letter" (all back issues)

    -by Gary Halbert

    "The Boron Letters"
    -by Gary Halbert

    "The Lazy Man's Way to Riches"

    -by Joe Karbo

    "Break-Through Advertising"

    -by Eugene M. Schwartz

    "7-Steps To Freedom"

    -by Ben Suarez
    Originally Posted by Gary Halbert

    O.K., now that you've read all that material, what's next? This: I want you to get a copy of the following ads and direct mail letters:

    "Do You Make These Mistakes In English?"
    "What Everybody Should Know About This Stock And Bond Business"

    "The Nancy L. Halbert Heraldry Letter"

    "How To Burn Off Body Fat, Hour-By-Hour"

    "At 60 Miles An Hour The Loudest Noise In This Rolls Royce Is The Ticking Of The Electric Clock"

    "Why Men Crack"

    "How To Collect From Social Security At Any Age"

    "The Admiral Byrd Transpolar Expedition Letter"

    "The Lazy Man's Way To Riches"

    ......

    Now that you've obtained copies of these ads and letters, I want you to sit down and copy them out word-for-word in your own handwriting.
    Did you do that part yet?

    Because unless you do the above you won't know how to properly do these 7 steps.

    1. Say something that gets attention.
    2. Tell them why they should be interested. (Expand on CSI)
    3. Tell them why they should believe what you are saying is true.
    4. Prove it is true.
    5. Itemize and describe all benefits.
    6. Tell them how to order.
    7. Tell them to order now.

    A quick question for you.
    "What do you do when your car quits, your wasmachine stops working or you need a new roof window?"

    Do you try and handle it yourself? Or get a pro?

    Just like SEO, unless you have the specific skills - you'll mess it up.

    The same is true with copywriting.
    Signature

    Site being revamped.

    If you want help with copy stuff, pm me.

    Cool.

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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Reading 30 books for 1 sales letter is not gonna happen.

      Personally I think I succeeded pretty well, unfortunatly I had to change my whole sales letter again after the huge deindexing of public blog networks.

      A 3/10 is not too bad I showed it to a couple of friends and they were highly impressed so I think you're a little too critical.

      I'm the person who tries to fix his car by himself first, if I messup too hard I go to the garage
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  • Profile picture of the author maximus242
    It still sucks, but its improved.

    Now if you have a problem with what we say get out of our forum. If you come here for a critique request, EXPECT TO BE CRITIQUED.

    We are not here to pat you on the back and say what a good job you did writing a sub-par sales letter.

    If you dont like it, go somewhere else. Otherwise, dont argue about how good your sales letter is, just say thank you to the people taking time out of their day to help you.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by maximus242 View Post

      It still sucks, but its improved.

      Now if you have a problem with what we say get out of our forum. If you come here for a critique request, EXPECT TO BE CRITIQUED.

      We are not here to pat you on the back and say what a good job you did writing a sub-par sales letter.

      If you dont like it, go somewhere else. Otherwise, dont argue about how good your sales letter is, just say thank you to the people taking time out of their day to help you.
      You are correct indeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author ASCW
    Personally I think I succeeded pretty well, unfortunatly I had to change my whole sales letter again after the huge deindexing of public blog networks.
    I didn't want to do this. But your sales letter is bad, a 3/10 is being very generous (and that's because I've seen some truly awful stuff).

    But your sales letter is horrible, absolutely horrible.

    A 3/10 is not too bad I showed it to a couple of friends and they were highly impressed so I think you're a little too critical.
    I'm not being too critical - your friends don't know dick about advertising. Your sales letter really is THAT bad.

    It's kind of like when a little kid picks up crayons and scribbles a picture. Of course the parents love it and of course little kid thinks it looks good, the kid doesn't know anything about art - they can't compare it to the mona lisa, because they don't even know what the mona lisa is.

    I'm the person who tries to fix his car by himself first, if I messup too hard I go to the garage
    Well I guess if you're gonna do it yourself, you should probably read the following books.
    "Scientific Advertising"

    -by Claude Hopkins

    "The Robert Collier Letter Book"

    -by Robert Collier

    "Tested Advertising Methods"

    -by John Caples
    "How To Write A Good Advertisement"
    -by Vic Schwab

    "The Gary Halbert Letter" (all back issues)

    -by Gary Halbert

    "The Boron Letters"
    -by Gary Halbert

    "The Lazy Man's Way to Riches"

    -by Joe Karbo

    "Break-Through Advertising"

    -by Eugene M. Schwartz

    "7-Steps To Freedom"

    -by Ben Suarez

    Not gonna read them?

    That's like trying to fix your car without any tools.
    -------------

    I've been critical, but it was to help you, but if you're going ignorantly tell me that I'm wrong and you're right. I'm not going to help you anymore.

    Your funeral.
    Signature

    Site being revamped.

    If you want help with copy stuff, pm me.

    Cool.

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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ASCW View Post

      I didn't want to do this. But your sales letter is bad, a 3/10 is being very generous (and that's because I've seen some truly awful stuff).

      But your sales letter is horrible, absolutely horrible.



      I'm not being too critical - your friends don't know dick about advertising. Your sales letter really is THAT bad.

      It's kind of like when a little kid picks up crayons and scribbles a picture. Of course the parents love it and of course little kid thinks it looks good, the kid doesn't know anything about art - they can't compare it to the mona lisa, because they don't even know what the mona lisa is.



      Well I guess if you're gonna do it yourself, you should probably read the following books.
      "Scientific Advertising"

      -by Claude Hopkins

      "The Robert Collier Letter Book"

      -by Robert Collier

      "Tested Advertising Methods"

      -by John Caples
      "How To Write A Good Advertisement"
      -by Vic Schwab

      "The Gary Halbert Letter" (all back issues)

      -by Gary Halbert

      "The Boron Letters"
      -by Gary Halbert

      "The Lazy Man's Way to Riches"

      -by Joe Karbo

      "Break-Through Advertising"

      -by Eugene M. Schwartz

      "7-Steps To Freedom"

      -by Ben Suarez

      Not gonna read them?

      That's like trying to fix your car without any tools.
      -------------

      I've been critical, but it was to help you, but if you're going ignorantly tell me that I'm wrong and you're right. I'm not going to help you anymore.

      Your funeral.
      Sorry, I just felt a little personal offended by it, but you mean it all well.

      I did make EDIT: 3 sales in 2 days, thats pretty unique, especially since I'm still on the 4th page BUT I must admit that my latest client just told me: Your sales copy SUCKS But I have the idea that was also because he didn't see any buy now buttons (cause all the services heavily changed I still have to do that, services have a more custom approach now so hard to cover with a buynow button).

      A few comments back you pointed me at poor grammar and spelling, afterwards I went through all the paragraphs and adjusted it for better readability. I haven't specifically run it through a spelling checker.

      Would you like to show me an example of what you think is a perfect sales letter? As martyJames said, as soon as he sees hyped up salesletters, he is gone, and I'm as well, I see many professional sales letter that are so hyped up that I quit reading instantly (and these come from large companies who know what they are doing, but I hate those copys). Take SeNukeX for example, when I read it the first time I was instantly thinking, where is the catch and had to search deep to figure out that it was totally useless.

      Then you can say, well you went searching like "Where is the catch" so it did affect you, Yes it did certainly affect me but it was way too good to be true, and all the sensors in my head went off that this could not be real.


      At the moment I can't afford to outsource it but I do have the idea that I followed the 7 guidelines pretty reasonable, a bit clueless why it's still that bad to be honest.
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  • Profile picture of the author martyJames
    I just looked at your sales page - it is GOOD - forget these 'copywriting' 'guru's' who make those rediculous teenage over the top sales pages - as soon as i see hype im GONE - yours has no hype just good copy! leave it as is!
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by martyJames View Post

      I just looked at your sales page - it is GOOD - forget these 'copywriting' 'guru's' who make those rediculous teenage over the top sales pages - as soon as i see hype im GONE - yours has no hype just good copy! leave it as is!
      I'm glad to hear that you do like it, opposed to the old sales letter, it's already a lot better. You know whats the funny part about this: I took a salesletter from someone who sells copy write services as an example / guidance. So that makes me think, how can it still be so terrible then.
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  • Profile picture of the author ASCW
    Your sentences are long, and wordy. Plus they are worded in ways that are awkward to read and tricky to understand. Almost all of your sentences have this problem.

    Also in your headline "wasmachine" should be "wash machine". It should also be title case.

    I'm not sure if a perfect sales letter has ever been written. But here are some really good ones.

    DM/SPACE

    http://www.theryanmcgrath.com/coa.pdf

    http://www.theryanmcgrath.com/Joe_Karbo_Ad1.jpg

    http://www.theryanmcgrath.com/This_S...d_Business.jpg

    --online sales letters--

    Ghetto Counter Attacks with Diallo Fraizer

    OHP Direct - Golf Instructional - Golf School - Golf Training - Golf Teachers - Golf Tips - Lower Scores -

    Also your headline isn't actually a headline. (it looks like a headline, but doesn't actually have any of the real ingredients that makes a headline, and doesn't do the things a headline is supposed to.) - Same goes with your post head, and opening paragraph.

    This is actually the explanation for...
    I took a salesletter from someone who sells copy write services as an example / guidance. So that makes me think, how can it still be so terrible then.p
    This is exactly where the ignorance stems from. You see, when you look at a sales letter, and when I look at a sales letter. We're actually looking at totally different things. You see words, I see underlying embedded psychology. Psychology you haven't learned about, and don't know how to spot, and certainly don't properly understand how to replicate.

    For example I took recently found a good sales letter, written by a copywriter who was selling his services (it was Harlan Killstein's - don't know if its still floating around).

    Then I opened a word file - wrote down every individual sentence, then broke down all of the psychology in that one sentence. And let me tell you, for ever sentence there was about a paragraph of explanation - revealing all the stuff that's going on behind the scenes.

    soon as he sees hyped up salesletters, he is gone, and I'm as well, I see many professional sales letter that are so hyped up that I quit reading instantly
    I think you're making a serious error. I'm not sure if you know what hype means.

    Because what you are describing has almost nothing to do with hype at all. But rather an "Oh yuck" factor.

    Which is described here.

    Please login
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    Site being revamped.

    If you want help with copy stuff, pm me.

    Cool.

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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    "I'm a technical guy, not a slick copywriter. So all I can do is offer you my services and let my clients tell you how it worked out for them."

    Lead with that and follow with your testimonials and offer.

    Oh, and get rid of that skyrocket nonsense.
    Consider that skyrocket nonsense done

    I'm going your way and I exactly quoted your sentence to not mess it up, will start a second thread so I can start doing some split testing. Personally I am a great fan of the no nonsense approach, and you've worded it in the best way.

    Thanks again!
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